I work for the McClurg Museum in Westfield, NY, and we've got a few artifacts of Lincoln's. Getting a piece of his hair wasn't so much a common practice back then as it was a common crime. On Lincoln's funeral train back to Illinois after his assassination in DC, pretty much everyone that could tried to get any piece of him they could to hold on to. All the buttons on his jacket were gone, most of his hair ripped out, and there are rumors that his left index finger is missing. We'll never know now, because Robert Todd Lincoln had his father buried under 10 feet of concrete, but it all seems very plausible from a historian's viewpoint.
I'm glad you've posted these quotes, Pandora. I love getting into the debate as to whether Lincoln was the great emancipator or whether was simply a modern Bismark. I love the people who argue with me that Lincoln was simply an opportunist who used the country's circumstances to vault himself into power. All you need to do is read some of what Lincoln wrote and you would know that he had a deep passion to emancipate the slaves.
I have so much I could tell you about Lincoln, Pandora, that I just can't fit it on here. If you ever want any suggestions on readings or questions about Lincoln in general, I've dedicated the past few years of my life to studying him and would be more than happy to hold a conversation about him with you!
I believe most people try to twist his views around on slavery, because in actuality slavery was not his primary concern. While he was vehemently opposed to the institution, it's eradication was not the driving force behind his presidency as many people believe.
Yes, relic hunters were a problem, but I don't remember hearing anything about him losing appendages. Also, I don't believe they pulled his hair out, since both his beard and the hair on his head were still present when he was viewed by a small group of witnesses after his exhumation. The only thing that had vanished were his eyebrows. There was no notation about the loss of any digits, just that his gloves had disintegrated. He was so well embalmed that he was perfectly recognizable even 30 years after his death.
Prior to his death, a distant relative of mine was able to secure this lock of hair. He was an assistant secretary to Lincoln, and he obtained the lock after Lincoln received a haircut shortly before the assassination. I've often wondered if it was after one particular haircut he got in Feb of 1865, which was so short it made his hair spike up and caused him to look quite a bit different. You can see a pic here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmcnab/3259528911/
This daguerreotype is wonderful. It really kind of helps to make him seem human since he's such a polarized figure. Even if your piece of hair wasn't from his corpse, you still have a piece of a flag from his funeral train, yes? My museum has some adornment from his funeral train. People wanted to grab every piece of Lincoln they could as his funeral train passed through. I hope I didn't sensationalize what I meant. Not to say Lincoln was bald by the time he got back to Illinois, but from the personal accounts I've read of those close to him, thieves were a problem.
One of the reasons Lincoln became president over other candidates is that his policy on slavery was a very mild one. Candidates such as William Seward were extraordinarily outspoken against slavery. Lincoln had to do his best to make the Civil War winnable, and with northern states fighting for the confederacy such as Maryland which kept slaves, Lincoln couldn't do anything drastic to encourage them to break away and join the south. There is a reason the Emancipation Proclamation only freed the slaves in the south. Lincoln was getting around to it, he just had to do it in a timely manner. I believe that Lincoln did have a moral obligation to emancipate all the slaves, he just knew he couldn't do it all at once. I believe that Lincoln's reactions regarding the Trent Affair give good evidence as to the moral obligation Lincoln had to freeing the slaves.
As a historian, it's not my job to glorify the actions of Lincoln, it's to study them and identify the consequences and ramifications of them objectively and histriographically. Though I do have my own opinions, I do my best not to let them supersede what the research shows.
I love hearing other people's opinions as well, as long as they are equally unbiased as mine.
i love this letter that Lincoln allegedly wrote to Ms. Bixby, a grieving mother from Boston in 1864 near the end of the Civil War. there is some debate as to whether or not Lincoln actually wrote it, (his secretary is the rumored author) but even if he didn't it is still a beautiful piece of writing. nobody ever writes with such eloquence these days....
Executive Mansion,
Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.
Dear Madam,
I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.
Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,
A. Lincoln
here is a wiki link that talks about this letter and the circumstances surrounding it's inspiration and writing...
i love this letter that Lincoln allegedly wrote to Ms. Bixby, a grieving mother from Boston in 1864 near the end of the Civil War. there is some debate as to whether or not Lincoln actually wrote it, (his secretary is the rumored author) but even if he didn't it is still a beautiful piece of writing. nobody ever writes with such eloquence these days....
Executive Mansion,
Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.
Dear Madam,
I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.
Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,
A. Lincoln
here is a wiki link that talks about this letter and the circumstances surrounding it's inspiration and writing...
In his 1858 campaign in Illinois for the Senate against Stephen Douglas, Lincoln spoke differently depending on the views of his listeners (and also perhaps depending on how close it was to the election). Speaking in northern Illinois in July (in Chicago), he said:
Let us discard all this quibbling about this man and the other man, this race and that race and the other race being inferior, and therefore they must be placed in an inferior position. Let us discard all these things, and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal.
Two months later in Charleston, in southern Illinois, Lincoln told his audience:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
are those thoughts current and just heartwarming?
do they flow with eloquence and compassion?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
In his 1858 campaign in Illinois for the Senate against Stephen Douglas, Lincoln spoke differently depending on the views of his listeners (and also perhaps depending on how close it was to the election). Speaking in northern Illinois in July (in Chicago), he said:
Let us discard all this quibbling about this man and the other man, this race and that race and the other race being inferior, and therefore they must be placed in an inferior position. Let us discard all these things, and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal.
Two months later in Charleston, in southern Illinois, Lincoln told his audience:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
are those thoughts current and just heartwarming?
do they flow with eloquence and compassion?
It's clear you have a chip on your shoulder for Lincoln, and that's cool. My first post, I specifically said he wasn't the saint that he's made out to be these days. You're only about 150 years late, but I'll give you a newsflash....nearly everyone was racist in that era by today's standards. If you spend a little more time reading, you'll actually find even more scandalous racism :roll: when you find that he actually considered establishing a colony for slaves in Central America and have them shipped there. Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested. In other words, equality for him was just as he read it in the Declaration of Independence...."all men are created equal ... with certain unalienable rights", those rights being Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Not necessarily the right to vote, serve in government, etc. You do realize that women also had only slightly more rights than slaves back then don't you? They were by no means treated equal. So by today's standards they were all sexists as well.
Just to be clear, there was never a single drop of blood spilled on any battlefield of the Civil War for or against slavery. Just as Lincoln said, he would do whatever needed to be done to preserve the Union, with or without slavery. That doesn't mean he necessarily supported the institution itself.
In his 1858 campaign in Illinois for the Senate against Stephen Douglas, Lincoln spoke differently depending on the views of his listeners (and also perhaps depending on how close it was to the election). Speaking in northern Illinois in July (in Chicago), he said:
Let us discard all this quibbling about this man and the other man, this race and that race and the other race being inferior, and therefore they must be placed in an inferior position. Let us discard all these things, and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal.
Two months later in Charleston, in southern Illinois, Lincoln told his audience:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
are those thoughts current and just heartwarming?
do they flow with eloquence and compassion?
It's clear you have a chip on your shoulder for Lincoln, and that's cool. My first post, I specifically said he wasn't the saint that he's made out to be these days. You're only about 150 years late, but I'll give you a newsflash....nearly everyone was racist in that era by today's standards. If you spend a little more time reading, you'll actually find even more scandalous racism :roll: when you find that he actually considered establishing a colony for slaves in Central America and have them shipped there. Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested. In other words, equality for him was just as he read it in the Declaration of Independence...."all men are created equal ... with certain unalienable rights", those rights being Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Not necessarily the right to vote, serve in government, etc. You do realize that women also had only slightly more rights than slaves back then don't you? They were by no means treated equal. So by today's standards they were all sexists as well.
Just to be clear, there was never a single drop of blood spilled on any battlefield of the Civil War for or against slavery. Just as Lincoln said, he would do whatever needed to be done to preserve the Union, with or without slavery. That doesn't mean he necessarily supported the institution itself.
"Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested."
abe had this to say about that
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
this was what john brown said before he was executed for trying to end slavery in 1859
"I have, may it please the Court, a few words to say.
In the first place, I deny everything but what I have all along admitted, the design on my part to free the slaves. I intended certainly to have made a clean thing of that matter, as I did last winter, when I went into Missouri and there took slaves without the snapping of a gun on either side, moved them through the country, and finally left them in Canada. I designed to have done the same thing again, on a larger scale. That was all I intended. I never did intend murder, or treason, or the destruction of property, or to excite or incite slaves to rebellion, or to make insurrection.
I have another objection; and that is, it is unjust that I should suffer such a penalty. Had I interfered in the manner which I admit, and which I admit has been fairly proved (for I admire the truthfulness and candor of the greater portion of the witnesses who have testified in this case), had I so interfered in behalf of the rich, the powerful, the intelligent, the so-called great, or in behalf of any of their friends, either father, mother, brother, sister, wife, or children, or any of that class, and suffered and sacrificed what I have in this interference, it would have been all right; and every man in this court would have deemed it an act worthy of reward rather than punishment.
This court acknowledges, as I suppose, the validity of the law of God. I see a book kissed here which I suppose to be the Bible, or at least the New Testament. That teaches me that all things whatsoever I would that men should do to me, I should do even so to them. It teaches me, further, to "remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them." I endeavored to act up to that instruction. I say, I am yet too young to understand that God is any respecter of persons. I believe that to have interfered as I have done as I have always freely admitted I have done in behalf of His despised poor, was not wrong, but right. Now, if it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments, I submit; so let it be done!
Let me say one word further.
I feel entirely satisfied with the treatment I have received on my trial. Considering all the circumstances. it has been more generous than I expected. But I feel no consciousness of guilt. I have stated from the first what was my intention and what was not. I never had any design against the life of any person, nor any disposition to commit treason, or excite slaves to rebel, or make any general insurrection. I never encouraged any man to do so, but always discouraged any idea of that kind.
Let me say, also, a word in regard to the statements made by some of those connected with me. I hear it has been stated by some of them that I have induced them to join me. But the contrary is true. I do not say this to injure them, but as regretting their weakness. There is not one of them but joined me of his own accord, and the greater part of them at their own expense. A number of them I never saw, and never had a word of conversation with, till the day they came to me; and that was for the purpose I have stated.
Now I have done."
his attempt failed and he was hung
the us civil war did not end slavery
took over 300,000 lives
and lincoln is the hero?
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
"Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested."
abe had this to say about that
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
Yeah, I read that the first time you copied and pasted it. Social and political equality of that time had absolutely nothing to do with a belief in equal human rights (i.e. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness).
this was what john brown said before he was executed for trying to end slavery in 1859
"I have, may it please the Court, a few words to say.
In the first place, I deny everything but what I have all along admitted, the design on my part to free the slaves. I intended certainly to have made a clean thing of that matter, as I did last winter, when I went into Missouri and there took slaves without the snapping of a gun on either side, moved them through the country, and finally left them in Canada. I designed to have done the same thing again, on a larger scale. That was all I intended. I never did intend murder, or treason, or the destruction of property, or to excite or incite slaves to rebellion, or to make insurrection.
I have another objection; and that is, it is unjust that I should suffer such a penalty. Had I interfered in the manner which I admit, and which I admit has been fairly proved (for I admire the truthfulness and candor of the greater portion of the witnesses who have testified in this case), had I so interfered in behalf of the rich, the powerful, the intelligent, the so-called great, or in behalf of any of their friends, either father, mother, brother, sister, wife, or children, or any of that class, and suffered and sacrificed what I have in this interference, it would have been all right; and every man in this court would have deemed it an act worthy of reward rather than punishment.
This court acknowledges, as I suppose, the validity of the law of God. I see a book kissed here which I suppose to be the Bible, or at least the New Testament. That teaches me that all things whatsoever I would that men should do to me, I should do even so to them. It teaches me, further, to "remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them." I endeavored to act up to that instruction. I say, I am yet too young to understand that God is any respecter of persons. I believe that to have interfered as I have done as I have always freely admitted I have done in behalf of His despised poor, was not wrong, but right. Now, if it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments, I submit; so let it be done!
Let me say one word further.
I feel entirely satisfied with the treatment I have received on my trial. Considering all the circumstances. it has been more generous than I expected. But I feel no consciousness of guilt. I have stated from the first what was my intention and what was not. I never had any design against the life of any person, nor any disposition to commit treason, or excite slaves to rebel, or make any general insurrection. I never encouraged any man to do so, but always discouraged any idea of that kind.
Let me say, also, a word in regard to the statements made by some of those connected with me. I hear it has been stated by some of them that I have induced them to join me. But the contrary is true. I do not say this to injure them, but as regretting their weakness. There is not one of them but joined me of his own accord, and the greater part of them at their own expense. A number of them I never saw, and never had a word of conversation with, till the day they came to me; and that was for the purpose I have stated.
Now I have done."
his attempt failed and he was hung
the us civil war did not end slavery
took over 300,000 lives
and lincoln is the hero?
John Brown was crazy, but he had good intentions. However, you can't take over a U.S. Armory with the intent of inciting insurrection without meeting your fate at the end of a rope.
The war actually resulted in the deaths of well over 600,000. I don't necessarily look at Lincoln as a hero, but he was the right man at the right time.
"Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested."
abe had this to say about that
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
Yeah, I read that the first time you copied and pasted it. Social and political equality of that time had absolutely nothing to do with a belief in equal human rights (i.e. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness).
not trying to argue
it is what it is
i see it one way
you can see it however you like
i think it's pathetic to idolize or praise
anyone who had racist beliefs
and at the same time excuse them
for having such beliefs at a time in history
when they were accepted by a majority of the people
while at the same time
there was a minority that knew it was wrong
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
"Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested."
abe had this to say about that
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
Yeah, I read that the first time you copied and pasted it. Social and political equality of that time had absolutely nothing to do with a belief in equal human rights (i.e. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness).
not trying to argue
it is what it is
i see it one way
you can see it however you like
i think it's pathetic to idolize or praise
anyone who had racist beliefs
and at the same time excuse them
for having such beliefs at a time in history
when they were accepted by a majority of the people
while at the same time
there was a minority that knew it was wrong
What do you propose?
A possible solution is to mandate that whenever discussing the history of Abe Lincoln, you have to throw in "Oh yeah, he was also a racist" in closing.
I liked a few pictures with the wild hairdo...very progressive for his time
I guess they didn't smile much back in the day but I liked the few with just a hint of a smile...looked like he was up to something
probably another wonderful quote
"People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be."
I'm glad you've taken such an interest in the life and times of Lincoln, Pandora. Regardless of what any of the muckrakers want to say on here, Lincoln was a martyr to the abolition of slavery and a truly selfless man.
I have a degree in history and museum studies, and one of the facets about my field I found most humorous is that everyone without a degree in my field wants to tell me how things actually were. I can only imagine if this were the case in other disciplines. Could you imagine if I went to any arbitrary mathematician and told him his formulas were wrong? We all have our opinions, and we are all entitled to them, however the difference is I don't let ill-conceived biases and out of context historical fragments influence my understandings of history, nor do I allow modern biases alter my understanding of how societies of the past functioned. I do my best to think historiographically, where I cannot say the same for some of the others who have tried to smear Lincoln's name on this thread.
I've already brought up how Lincoln handled the Trent Affair as a barometer to his moral obligation to freeing the slaves, however another yardstick to measuring this obligation can be found in his reaction to the Kansas-Nebraska Act.
Perhaps all that needs to be done is to study how Frederick Douglass felt about Lincoln to see if the enslaved people of the Confederate States of America believed that Lincoln had a moral obligation to emancipating the slaves.
It's been an absolute pleasure looking over all of Lincoln's quotes that you have posted here Pandora. As I've said before, if there's anything I can ever do to help further stimulate your curiosity for Lincoln or American History in general, please do not be shy to ask.
I'm glad you've taken such an interest in the life and times of Lincoln, Pandora. Regardless of what any of the muckrakers want to say on here, Lincoln was a martyr to the abolition of slavery and a truly selfless man.
I have a degree in history and museum studies, and one of the facets about my field I found most humorous is that everyone without a degree in my field wants to tell me how things actually were. I can only imagine if this were the case in other disciplines. Could you imagine if I went to any arbitrary mathematician and told him his formulas were wrong? We all have our opinions, and we are all entitled to them, however the difference is I don't let ill-conceived biases and out of context historical fragments influence my understandings of history, nor do I allow modern biases alter my understanding of how societies of the past functioned. I do my best to think historiographically, where I cannot say the same for some of the others who have tried to smear Lincoln's name on this thread.
I've already brought up how Lincoln handled the Trent Affair as a barometer to his moral obligation to freeing the slaves, however another yardstick to measuring this obligation can be found in his reaction to the Kansas-Nebraska Act.
Perhaps all that needs to be done is to study how Frederick Douglass felt about Lincoln to see if the enslaved people of the Confederate States of America believed that Lincoln had a moral obligation to emancipating the slaves.
It's been an absolute pleasure looking over all of Lincoln's quotes that you have posted here Pandora. As I've said before, if there's anything I can ever do to help further stimulate your curiosity for Lincoln or American History in general, please do not be shy to ask.
Thanks Big Drop! and your knowledge and dedication I admire greatly.
I have this bonded feeling now to Lincoln because of his brilliant quotes...
I feel like I can see his heart...
this why I take the negative with a grain of salt.
No one is perfect but besides that I can see from his words how much he cared
about others and our country. He was a good man.
I will take the time to read the info links you have posted...that was very thoughtful.
It is kind of an awakening for me...I never much thought about him
but after reading his words I feel as though I have a new inspirational guide in my life
The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma.”
-Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865)
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go. My own wisdom and that of all about me insufficient for that day."
— Abraham Lincoln
Comments
This daguerreotype is wonderful. It really kind of helps to make him seem human since he's such a polarized figure. Even if your piece of hair wasn't from his corpse, you still have a piece of a flag from his funeral train, yes? My museum has some adornment from his funeral train. People wanted to grab every piece of Lincoln they could as his funeral train passed through. I hope I didn't sensationalize what I meant. Not to say Lincoln was bald by the time he got back to Illinois, but from the personal accounts I've read of those close to him, thieves were a problem.
One of the reasons Lincoln became president over other candidates is that his policy on slavery was a very mild one. Candidates such as William Seward were extraordinarily outspoken against slavery. Lincoln had to do his best to make the Civil War winnable, and with northern states fighting for the confederacy such as Maryland which kept slaves, Lincoln couldn't do anything drastic to encourage them to break away and join the south. There is a reason the Emancipation Proclamation only freed the slaves in the south. Lincoln was getting around to it, he just had to do it in a timely manner. I believe that Lincoln did have a moral obligation to emancipate all the slaves, he just knew he couldn't do it all at once. I believe that Lincoln's reactions regarding the Trent Affair give good evidence as to the moral obligation Lincoln had to freeing the slaves.
As a historian, it's not my job to glorify the actions of Lincoln, it's to study them and identify the consequences and ramifications of them objectively and histriographically. Though I do have my own opinions, I do my best not to let them supersede what the research shows.
I love hearing other people's opinions as well, as long as they are equally unbiased as mine.
Executive Mansion,
Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.
Dear Madam,
I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.
Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,
A. Lincoln
here is a wiki link that talks about this letter and the circumstances surrounding it's inspiration and writing...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bixby_letter
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Without a doubt one of the greatest examples of Lincoln's eloquence and compassion. :thumbup:
In his 1858 campaign in Illinois for the Senate against Stephen Douglas, Lincoln spoke differently depending on the views of his listeners (and also perhaps depending on how close it was to the election). Speaking in northern Illinois in July (in Chicago), he said:
Let us discard all this quibbling about this man and the other man, this race and that race and the other race being inferior, and therefore they must be placed in an inferior position. Let us discard all these things, and unite as one people throughout this land, until we shall once more stand up declaring that all men are created equal.
Two months later in Charleston, in southern Illinois, Lincoln told his audience:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
are those thoughts current and just heartwarming?
do they flow with eloquence and compassion?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
It's clear you have a chip on your shoulder for Lincoln, and that's cool. My first post, I specifically said he wasn't the saint that he's made out to be these days. You're only about 150 years late, but I'll give you a newsflash....nearly everyone was racist in that era by today's standards. If you spend a little more time reading, you'll actually find even more scandalous racism :roll: when you find that he actually considered establishing a colony for slaves in Central America and have them shipped there. Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested. In other words, equality for him was just as he read it in the Declaration of Independence...."all men are created equal ... with certain unalienable rights", those rights being Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Not necessarily the right to vote, serve in government, etc. You do realize that women also had only slightly more rights than slaves back then don't you? They were by no means treated equal. So by today's standards they were all sexists as well.
Just to be clear, there was never a single drop of blood spilled on any battlefield of the Civil War for or against slavery. Just as Lincoln said, he would do whatever needed to be done to preserve the Union, with or without slavery. That doesn't mean he necessarily supported the institution itself.
"Lincoln was undoubtedly a firm believer in equal human rights, which is where his disdain for slavery rested."
abe had this to say about that
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races (applause); that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people.. . .
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and J as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
this was what john brown said before he was executed for trying to end slavery in 1859
"I have, may it please the Court, a few words to say.
In the first place, I deny everything but what I have all along admitted, the design on my part to free the slaves. I intended certainly to have made a clean thing of that matter, as I did last winter, when I went into Missouri and there took slaves without the snapping of a gun on either side, moved them through the country, and finally left them in Canada. I designed to have done the same thing again, on a larger scale. That was all I intended. I never did intend murder, or treason, or the destruction of property, or to excite or incite slaves to rebellion, or to make insurrection.
I have another objection; and that is, it is unjust that I should suffer such a penalty. Had I interfered in the manner which I admit, and which I admit has been fairly proved (for I admire the truthfulness and candor of the greater portion of the witnesses who have testified in this case), had I so interfered in behalf of the rich, the powerful, the intelligent, the so-called great, or in behalf of any of their friends, either father, mother, brother, sister, wife, or children, or any of that class, and suffered and sacrificed what I have in this interference, it would have been all right; and every man in this court would have deemed it an act worthy of reward rather than punishment.
This court acknowledges, as I suppose, the validity of the law of God. I see a book kissed here which I suppose to be the Bible, or at least the New Testament. That teaches me that all things whatsoever I would that men should do to me, I should do even so to them. It teaches me, further, to "remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them." I endeavored to act up to that instruction. I say, I am yet too young to understand that God is any respecter of persons. I believe that to have interfered as I have done as I have always freely admitted I have done in behalf of His despised poor, was not wrong, but right. Now, if it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments, I submit; so let it be done!
Let me say one word further.
I feel entirely satisfied with the treatment I have received on my trial. Considering all the circumstances. it has been more generous than I expected. But I feel no consciousness of guilt. I have stated from the first what was my intention and what was not. I never had any design against the life of any person, nor any disposition to commit treason, or excite slaves to rebel, or make any general insurrection. I never encouraged any man to do so, but always discouraged any idea of that kind.
Let me say, also, a word in regard to the statements made by some of those connected with me. I hear it has been stated by some of them that I have induced them to join me. But the contrary is true. I do not say this to injure them, but as regretting their weakness. There is not one of them but joined me of his own accord, and the greater part of them at their own expense. A number of them I never saw, and never had a word of conversation with, till the day they came to me; and that was for the purpose I have stated.
Now I have done."
his attempt failed and he was hung
the us civil war did not end slavery
took over 300,000 lives
and lincoln is the hero?
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
Yeah, I read that the first time you copied and pasted it. Social and political equality of that time had absolutely nothing to do with a belief in equal human rights (i.e. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness).
John Brown was crazy, but he had good intentions. However, you can't take over a U.S. Armory with the intent of inciting insurrection without meeting your fate at the end of a rope.
The war actually resulted in the deaths of well over 600,000. I don't necessarily look at Lincoln as a hero, but he was the right man at the right time.
not trying to argue
it is what it is
i see it one way
you can see it however you like
i think it's pathetic to idolize or praise
anyone who had racist beliefs
and at the same time excuse them
for having such beliefs at a time in history
when they were accepted by a majority of the people
while at the same time
there was a minority that knew it was wrong
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
"I would rather be a little nobody, then to be a evil somebody."
"You cannot have the right to do what is wrong!"
I think him a good man
I agree
A possible solution is to mandate that whenever discussing the history of Abe Lincoln, you have to throw in "Oh yeah, he was also a racist" in closing.
uh oh he might have had only one suit!
the beard ... great addition as for most men
I liked a few pictures with the wild hairdo...very progressive for his time
I guess they didn't smile much back in the day but I liked the few with just a hint of a smile...looked like he was up to something
probably another wonderful quote
"People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be."
Good day! and thanks for posting
"How I choose to feel, is how I am."
I have a degree in history and museum studies, and one of the facets about my field I found most humorous is that everyone without a degree in my field wants to tell me how things actually were. I can only imagine if this were the case in other disciplines. Could you imagine if I went to any arbitrary mathematician and told him his formulas were wrong? We all have our opinions, and we are all entitled to them, however the difference is I don't let ill-conceived biases and out of context historical fragments influence my understandings of history, nor do I allow modern biases alter my understanding of how societies of the past functioned. I do my best to think historiographically, where I cannot say the same for some of the others who have tried to smear Lincoln's name on this thread.
I've already brought up how Lincoln handled the Trent Affair as a barometer to his moral obligation to freeing the slaves, however another yardstick to measuring this obligation can be found in his reaction to the Kansas-Nebraska Act.
Perhaps all that needs to be done is to study how Frederick Douglass felt about Lincoln to see if the enslaved people of the Confederate States of America believed that Lincoln had a moral obligation to emancipating the slaves.
It's been an absolute pleasure looking over all of Lincoln's quotes that you have posted here Pandora. As I've said before, if there's anything I can ever do to help further stimulate your curiosity for Lincoln or American History in general, please do not be shy to ask.
I have this bonded feeling now to Lincoln because of his brilliant quotes...
I feel like I can see his heart...
this why I take the negative with a grain of salt.
No one is perfect but besides that I can see from his words how much he cared
about others and our country. He was a good man.
I will take the time to read the info links you have posted...that was very thoughtful.
It is kind of an awakening for me...I never much thought about him
but after reading his words I feel as though I have a new inspirational guide in my life
I guess like they say never to old to learn
-Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865)
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
"Whatever you are, be a good one."
— Abraham Lincoln
:thumbup:
— Abraham Lincoln
"I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had no where else to go. My own wisdom and that of all about me insufficient for that day."
— Abraham Lincoln
"It is not best to swap horses while crossing the river."
— Abraham Lincoln
at first I laughed, then....his wisdom shined through