I don't know, I don't think it is as cut and dry as that. chara is what, 6'9". there are guys in the NHL over a foot shorter than him. He shouldnt be out there headhunting, but chances are that he's going to make contact with people's heads once in a while just because he's so damn big.
personally I think 4 minute blood rule is one of the worst in sports (along with getting a point for a loss, but that's another story). It should be about intent or carelessness, not based on a cut.
I think society overreacts to result, when intent should be what's scrutinized and penalized as necessary. I don't think it's fair to penalize a player like chara because he hits a smaller player the same way he hits a bigger player. what is he supposed to do, say to himself, 'oh wait this is martin st louis, I can't hit him too hard because I might kill him'?
anyway, doesn't seem like everyone is going to agree about this stuff. the more these rules in sports change, the worse these league products become (see NHL and NFL). THis is one of a milion reasons why baseball is the best sport on the planet...that sport has been basically the same for over a century.
It's the only way to do it though. Can you think of another way? The questionable disciplinarians of the NHL studying these hits case by case certainly isn't working. If Chara accidentally clocks a shorter guy and gets 5 and game, he'll be more careful not to do it in the future. Maybe that's not exactly fair. But it's not exactly fair to Marty St. Louis that he was born midget sized either. You have to take the bad along with the good that comes with being huge.
Penalties in the NHL have have become more strict over the years but that by no means says the game has become “soft”. In fact it is quite the opposite. The penalties have become necessary as the NHL player has dramatically changed over the past 30 years. Forwards used to be 5'8”-5'10”. In the 80's ice hockey was a finesse sport with a few goons attempting to skate across the ice. Back then a goon was on the ice to fight. Nothing more. They weren't good enough skaters to actually hit any of the fast players. Nowadays, even some goons are decent players and are certainly good enough skaters to lay out some of the best skaters on the ice. The fighting has decreased but the NHL has become a much harder hitting sport over the years.
Another major factor is the NHL rink. NHL rinks are tiny in comparison to Olympic size rinks. So as the NHL player got bigger,stronger and faster the ice surface remained the same. This meant more congestion on the ice, less room for the offensive players to skate and a decrease in the goal scoring. And as a result, a lot more body contact on the ice. NO WAY Gretzky in his prime would score 90+ goals in today's NHL. He wasn't even that fast of a skater.
Enter all these penalties- an attempt to increase scoring and eliminate dangerous hits. And in many ways it has worked. Goal production is up. The smaller guys will take more risks if they know a guy who has them by 50 pounds can't elbow their faces into the glass.
I love hard hitting ice hockey. You need it to win games. When guys have the puck they need to know if they hold on to it to long they are going to be hit, and hard. This makes them cough it up too early and creates turnovers. Big hits are and always will be a part of ice hockey. I don't even mind a little cheap stickwork to enrage your opponent and draw a penalty, this is ice hockey, toughest of all pro team sports. But players have become too big and fast and the rink has effectively become too small. There is no room for cheap headshots. Yes, of course it's going to happen, it is a game of aggression and adrenaline. But Chara deliberately pushed that guys head into the turnbuckle and although it appeared innocuous at the time, he knew exactly what he was doing. No, there shouldn't be a legal investigation. Okay, so the NHL deemed is wasn't worthy of a suspension. But it was done on purpose and he seriously injured a player, not just some slash of the stick to his lip, this was serious. But yes, it is ice hockey and it's going to happen. But don't be fooled he didn't know the turnbuckle was there.
Penalties in the NHL have have become more strict over the years but that by no means says the game has become “soft”. In fact it is quite the opposite. The penalties have become necessary as the NHL player has dramatically changed over the past 30 years. Forwards used to be 5'8”-5'10”. In the 80's ice hockey was a finesse sport with a few goons attempting to skate across the ice. Back then a goon was on the ice to fight. Nothing more. They weren't good enough skaters to actually hit any of the fast players. Nowadays, even some goons are decent players and are certainly good enough skaters to lay out some of the best skaters on the ice. The fighting has decreased but the NHL has become a much harder hitting sport over the years.
Another major factor is the NHL rink. NHL rinks are tiny in comparison to Olympic size rinks. So as the NHL player got bigger,stronger and faster the ice surface remained the same. This meant more congestion on the ice, less room for the offensive players to skate and a decrease in the goal scoring. And as a result, a lot more body contact on the ice. NO WAY Gretzky in his prime would score 90+ goals in today's NHL. He wasn't even that fast of a skater.
Enter all these penalties- an attempt to increase scoring and eliminate dangerous hits. And in many ways it has worked. Goal production is up. The smaller guys will take more risks if they know a guy who has them by 50 pounds can't elbow their faces into the glass.
I love hard hitting ice hockey. You need it to win games. When guys have the puck they need to know if they hold on to it to long they are going to be hit, and hard. This makes them cough it up too early and creates turnovers. Big hits are and always will be a part of ice hockey. I don't even mind a little cheap stickwork to enrage your opponent and draw a penalty, this is ice hockey, toughest of all pro team sports. But players have become too big and fast and the rink has effectively become too small. There is no room for cheap headshots. Yes, of course it's going to happen, it is a game of aggression and adrenaline. But Chara deliberately pushed that guys head into the turnbuckle and although it appeared innocuous at the time, he knew exactly what he was doing. No, there shouldn't be a legal investigation. Okay, so the NHL deemed is wasn't worthy of a suspension. But it was done on purpose and he seriously injured a player, not just some slash of the stick to his lip, this was serious. But yes, it is ice hockey and it's going to happen. But don't be fooled he didn't know the turnbuckle was there.
I can agree with all of this. I could definitely embrace Olympic sized ice, and Olympic style icing too.
I had a response all written up, but my stupid computer malfunctioned and I lost it, ugh.
Anyway, I did not make a snap judgment on this injury. I watched the French language replay on youtube before I even knew what Pacioretty's injuries were and formed my own opinion. I am also not trying to make a blanket statement on all injuries in hockey or sports. But there is a difference between regular physicality and reckless and unnecessary plays that threaten a person's life. Players understand the risks of stepping onto a hockey rink, but why should they have to fear for their lives?
I brought up the Norris, because Chara won that due to his positional play. You can play great defense with your stick and body without pushing your opponent face first into the glass partition. There is also a difference between regular hockey injuries and hitting a player in such a way that he could have been paralyzed or killed. I don't fault Chara for being big, but this play had little to do with that. It wasn't a body check. He pushed Pacioretty with both arms. That was just plain excessive.
So now defenseman aren't allowed to extend their arms on hits?
This argument is going nowhere. Like I said, the NHL is more at fault than the players. why the hell are there poles on the middle of the ice? so an announcer has a nice view of the game? I don't see how that is more important than player safety (especially if the announcer is pierre maguire)
I had a response all written up, but my stupid computer malfunctioned and I lost it, ugh.
Anyway, I did not make a snap judgment on this injury. I watched the French language replay on youtube before I even knew what Pacioretty's injuries were and formed my own opinion. I am also not trying to make a blanket statement on all injuries in hockey or sports. But there is a difference between regular physicality and reckless and unnecessary plays that threaten a person's life. Players understand the risks of stepping onto a hockey rink, but why should they have to fear for their lives?
I brought up the Norris, because Chara won that due to his positional play. You can play great defense with your stick and body without pushing your opponent face first into the glass partition. There is also a difference between regular hockey injuries and hitting a player in such a way that he could have been paralyzed or killed. I don't fault Chara for being big, but this play had little to do with that. It wasn't a body check. He pushed Pacioretty with both arms. That was just plain excessive.
So now defenseman aren't allowed to extend their arms on hits?
This argument is going nowhere. Like I said, the NHL is more at fault than the players. why the hell are there poles on the middle of the ice? so an announcer has a nice view of the game? I don't see how that is more important than player safety (especially if the announcer is pierre maguire)
Defensemen are allowed to extend their arms on hits, when they aren't guiding the person they are hitting's head into the glass partition, as the still shots show clearly happened. The leagues wording states that no hits are allowed to or "targeting the head." That's vague enough to apply to this situation, in my opinion.
I do think the NHL should do something to protect players from the partitions in the aftermath of this incident. But they are probably convinced they aren't responsible at all. I understand why they are there though. When there is a heated game like the Pittsburgh/Islanders game not long ago, you need something to separate the benches. They could pad it better, or use something other than glass entirely. It was never an issue before now, because people bounced into it occasionally, but I don't think anyone was ever hit into it so directly or forcefully until now.
I dont believe there was intent there. It was a bit reckless... the end result is horrifying. Shit happens when a sport is played on a sheet of ice by 200+ pound men who are as quick as they are.
But the NHL completely dropped the ball here. They could have suspended Chara for 2-5 games and taken almost all the heat off. Everyone with the exception of Jack Edwards would have been cool with a suspension. The Bruins are in a position where it wouldnt undermine their season, Montreal fans would be pacified somewhat, and it would show the NHL is going to be tough when a reckless play ends somberly. They could also be the moral authority if and when Montreal tries to 'even the score'. The whole sports world was watching, and the NHL dropped the ball from a PR standpoint. The situation would have been cooled quite a bit, but instead has intensified.
Also, I have seen a lot less deemed as suspendable by this league. Its not like you are throwing the guy in prison either, He just sits out a couple games.
I dont believe there was intent there. It was a bit reckless... the end result is horrifying. Shit happens when a sport is played on a sheet of ice by 200+ pound men who are as quick as they are.
But the NHL completely dropped the ball here. They could have suspended Chara for 2-5 games and taken almost all the heat off. Everyone with the exception of Jack Edwards would have been cool with a suspension. The Bruins are in a position where it wouldnt undermine their season, Montreal fans would be pacified somewhat, and it would show the NHL is going to be tough when a reckless play ends somberly. They could also be the moral authority if and when Montreal tries to 'even the score'. The whole sports world was watching, and the NHL dropped the ball from a PR standpoint. The situation would have been cooled quite a bit, but instead has intensified.
Also, I have seen a lot less deemed as suspendable by this league. Its not like you are throwing the guy in prison either, He just sits out a couple games.
Yeah, definitely. Thornton's hit on Perron is one that comes to mind. I think it's mostly the lack of consistency that gets all of our panties in a twist.
People need to chill out. There is nothing you can do to control this ... unless you want to stop watching, stop going to games, etc ... which you're not going to do.
The league is fucking daft for not suspending Chara for a few games ... yes, I'm a Bruins fan and I'm saying that. Almost feel it's being done to get their league talked about. Any publicity is good publicity, right?
This all said, criminal charges? C'mon, ridiculous.
Well said, and this thread is fucking stupid.
There shouldn't be police involvement, but since the NHL has no balls there you go. I'm sure it helps having that dick-tits Colin Campbell's son on the Bruins.
Air Canada is threatening to pull their sponsorship if the NHL doesn't do anything.
so Kotex has been awarded the naming rights
But in the NFL linebackers used to be able to clothesline running backs, helmet to helmet hits were completely acceptable and throwing a quarterback to the ground head first was a promoted tactic. Do you think the NFL has become a league of p*****s? Their rule changes are much more drastic then the ones the NHL has implemented.
Comments
It's the only way to do it though. Can you think of another way? The questionable disciplinarians of the NHL studying these hits case by case certainly isn't working. If Chara accidentally clocks a shorter guy and gets 5 and game, he'll be more careful not to do it in the future. Maybe that's not exactly fair. But it's not exactly fair to Marty St. Louis that he was born midget sized either. You have to take the bad along with the good that comes with being huge.
Another major factor is the NHL rink. NHL rinks are tiny in comparison to Olympic size rinks. So as the NHL player got bigger,stronger and faster the ice surface remained the same. This meant more congestion on the ice, less room for the offensive players to skate and a decrease in the goal scoring. And as a result, a lot more body contact on the ice. NO WAY Gretzky in his prime would score 90+ goals in today's NHL. He wasn't even that fast of a skater.
Enter all these penalties- an attempt to increase scoring and eliminate dangerous hits. And in many ways it has worked. Goal production is up. The smaller guys will take more risks if they know a guy who has them by 50 pounds can't elbow their faces into the glass.
I love hard hitting ice hockey. You need it to win games. When guys have the puck they need to know if they hold on to it to long they are going to be hit, and hard. This makes them cough it up too early and creates turnovers. Big hits are and always will be a part of ice hockey. I don't even mind a little cheap stickwork to enrage your opponent and draw a penalty, this is ice hockey, toughest of all pro team sports. But players have become too big and fast and the rink has effectively become too small. There is no room for cheap headshots. Yes, of course it's going to happen, it is a game of aggression and adrenaline. But Chara deliberately pushed that guys head into the turnbuckle and although it appeared innocuous at the time, he knew exactly what he was doing. No, there shouldn't be a legal investigation. Okay, so the NHL deemed is wasn't worthy of a suspension. But it was done on purpose and he seriously injured a player, not just some slash of the stick to his lip, this was serious. But yes, it is ice hockey and it's going to happen. But don't be fooled he didn't know the turnbuckle was there.
I can agree with all of this. I could definitely embrace Olympic sized ice, and Olympic style icing too.
So now defenseman aren't allowed to extend their arms on hits?
This argument is going nowhere. Like I said, the NHL is more at fault than the players. why the hell are there poles on the middle of the ice? so an announcer has a nice view of the game? I don't see how that is more important than player safety (especially if the announcer is pierre maguire)
But it didn't happen twenty feet down the ice.
Defensemen are allowed to extend their arms on hits, when they aren't guiding the person they are hitting's head into the glass partition, as the still shots show clearly happened. The leagues wording states that no hits are allowed to or "targeting the head." That's vague enough to apply to this situation, in my opinion.
I do think the NHL should do something to protect players from the partitions in the aftermath of this incident. But they are probably convinced they aren't responsible at all. I understand why they are there though. When there is a heated game like the Pittsburgh/Islanders game not long ago, you need something to separate the benches. They could pad it better, or use something other than glass entirely. It was never an issue before now, because people bounced into it occasionally, but I don't think anyone was ever hit into it so directly or forcefully until now.
I dont believe there was intent there. It was a bit reckless... the end result is horrifying. Shit happens when a sport is played on a sheet of ice by 200+ pound men who are as quick as they are.
But the NHL completely dropped the ball here. They could have suspended Chara for 2-5 games and taken almost all the heat off. Everyone with the exception of Jack Edwards would have been cool with a suspension. The Bruins are in a position where it wouldnt undermine their season, Montreal fans would be pacified somewhat, and it would show the NHL is going to be tough when a reckless play ends somberly. They could also be the moral authority if and when Montreal tries to 'even the score'. The whole sports world was watching, and the NHL dropped the ball from a PR standpoint. The situation would have been cooled quite a bit, but instead has intensified.
Also, I have seen a lot less deemed as suspendable by this league. Its not like you are throwing the guy in prison either, He just sits out a couple games.
Yeah, definitely. Thornton's hit on Perron is one that comes to mind. I think it's mostly the lack of consistency that gets all of our panties in a twist.
The Down Goes Brown NHL suspension flow chart is usually dead on: http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2009/11/nhl-suspensions.html
so Kotex has been awarded the naming rights
Of my innocence... got back my inner sense...
There shouldn't be police involvement, but since the NHL has no balls there you go. I'm sure it helps having that dick-tits Colin Campbell's son on the Bruins.
But in the NFL linebackers used to be able to clothesline running backs, helmet to helmet hits were completely acceptable and throwing a quarterback to the ground head first was a promoted tactic. Do you think the NFL has become a league of p*****s? Their rule changes are much more drastic then the ones the NHL has implemented.
Well check out the 27 pages on "Newbie to the forum".