The Holocaust

Jason P

___________ wrote:

Jason P wrote:

If members of Hamas fire rockets from the Gaza strip and kill Israelis, is Hamas committing genocide as well? Are the Sunnies and Shiites waging genocide against each other? Are the Americans waging genocide against the Taliban? Are Mexican cartels waging genocide against their government?

War and conflict is horrible, that much I can agree on. Israel and Hamas are engaged in a conflict. Each side has a goal which is to occupy more territory. I don't feel it is acceptable to compare a conflict to what happened in Germany, Darfur, Rwonda, and Yugoslavia.

Your talking points are standard bullshit you find on some lame mainstream media network, the "conflict" did not start with Hamas firing rockets made of fertilizer. It started with a colonial settler movement not entirely unlike the French colonial settler movement. The Zionist movement, indeed the state of Israel itself was founded on terrorism. It was founded by kicking out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. There is no genocide? They keep the Palestinians contained now in towns eerily similar to ghettos. Zionists poison their water supply, cut down their food sources and economic sources (olive trees), burn their buildings, and arrest/kill them on a regular basis. Do they have to be thrown into gas chambers before you all cry genocide? is the bombardment of the most densely populated place on the planet resulting in 1400 deaths the overwhelming majority of whom are civilian not enough? And speaking of Hamas, which is some weak ass resistance movement hardly worth mentioning, was the resistance movements against the Nazis, which existed, classify the Nazi genocide no longer a genocide? Is it now more proper to call it a "conflict" rather than genocide? the Rwandan genocide was also a conflict between 2 parties. It doesn't mean that one side didn't slaughter an entire people. And no analogy is perfect. Many different parties including Jews went through a tormenting period for those years. However those years are far fewer than the 60+ years Palestinians have been forced to live under oppression and some of the most tragic circumstances ever.

it's absolutely disturbing to see people in here minimizing the suffering of the Palestinians. This is the Holocaust industry, that no other conflict can compare to this. That once the Holocaust is mentioned, the Jews are seen again as victims--victims of an eternal crime that will never be forgotten, while all the other injustices especially the injustice done toward the Palestinians in the name of a "jewish state" goes by unchecked. there is no ranking of injustices. the holocaust is not the worst crime. quit placing it on its own pedestal. we should learn from it as much as we can of course, but the point of learning from it is to prevent anything like it from happening again. So where have we all been the last 6 decades when the Israelis have been terrorizing the Palestinians?

I find it disturbing that when thread on the Holocaust appears on AMT, it quickly digresses to an anti-Israel thread.

gimmesometruth27

Jason P wrote:

I find it disturbing that when thread on the Holocaust appears on AMT, it quickly digresses to an anti-Israel thread.

this thread is not anti-israel. most of us who have strong opinions on that situation have acknowledged how terrible the holocaust was and how it should never ever be repeated or forgotten. that said, there is nothing wrong with pointing out the glaring irony that those who are descendents of the victims of the worst event in human history are subjugating the palestinian population under the guise of protecting the jewish state...

fuck

Jason P wrote:

I find it disturbing that when thread on the Holocaust appears on AMT, it quickly digresses to an anti-Israel thread.

you participated in the anti-Israel discussion, albeit on the other side, but feel free to take some of the blame you're passing around.

secondly, if anyone had brought up how much they dislike genocide in Darfur, I've a mind you'd have had no problem with it. If anyone had brought up Rwanda, I've a mind you'd have not found it disturbing. If anyone had brought up any other oppression in the world, I've a mind you'd even concur with the poster and say yes, all these crimes of humanity are atrocious. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you are disturbed. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you roll your eyes at the poster who brings them up. You can go ahead and say what you want, but it is this type of reaction, YOUR reaction, that is most disturbing. It is inconsistent with the basic ideals of justice and morality and equality and humanity. All crimes should be condemned. Now that being said, the Holocaust is long gone thankfully so unless this is a strict historical discussion on the Holocaust, the moment any political implication is brought in then it will inevitably turn to a discussion against Israeli crimes, for plenty of reasons but mainly due to the fact that the Holocaust is often exaggerated by Zionist apologists. So honestly, don't be surprised when people bring in the Palestinian narrative. Instead of your sick response that consisted of completely minimizing the decades-long Palestinian struggle, perhaps you could show sympathy equal to that of any historical atrocity, like you do the Holocaust.

Jason P

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I find it disturbing that when thread on the Holocaust appears on AMT, it quickly digresses to an anti-Israel thread.

this thread is not anti-israel. most of us who have strong opinions on that situation have acknowledged how terrible the holocaust was and how it should never ever be repeated or forgotten. that said, there is nothing wrong with pointing out the glaring irony that those who are descendents of the victims of the worst event in human history are subjugating the palestinian population under the guise of protecting the jewish state...

I'm understanding of peoples feelings on the Israeli / Palestine conflict, but whenever a discussion starts on the Holocaust it quickly diverts to a discussion on the Zionist occupation of Palestine ... of which there have been 500 threads established in the last several years.

I usually stray from Israel / Palestine discussions due to how heated they get, but I just got back from seeing my Aunt on her deathbed this weekend. While talking with my Uncle, I learned that his family in Slovenia was rounded up by the Nazis when he was ten and taken by train to a concentration camp in Germany ... and they were not even Jewish. They assumed they would be put to death upon arrival, but since they had trade skills, his family was put to work in the camps to support the war efforts. He was put to work as a woodworker in a camp while his older siblings were separated and indoctrinated into the Hitler youth. His father was “asked” by German authorities to sign up for German citizenship, but he refused and was sent to the front lines as a result. My uncle spent the next four years in the concentration camp before reuniting with his family after the war ended.

In my opinion, Nazi Germany was the greatest source of evil the world has ever faced. Entire populations and demographics would have fallen prey to the Holocaust had Hitler been successful in world domination. I don't think it is appropriate to say you can't rank atrocities when you obviously can. And I think it may be possible to look back on a spot in history without bringing up the Zionist movement, George W. Bush, or Creed.

Jason P

___________ wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I find it disturbing that when thread on the Holocaust appears on AMT, it quickly digresses to an anti-Israel thread.

you participated in the anti-Israel discussion, albeit on the other side, but feel free to take some of the blame you're passing around.

secondly, if anyone had brought up how much they dislike genocide in Darfur, I've a mind you'd have had no problem with it. If anyone had brought up Rwanda, I've a mind you'd have not found it disturbing. If anyone had brought up any other oppression in the world, I've a mind you'd even concur with the poster and say yes, all these crimes of humanity are atrocious. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you are disturbed. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you roll your eyes at the poster who brings them up. You can go ahead and say what you want, but it is this type of reaction, YOUR reaction, that is most disturbing. It is inconsistent with the basic ideals of justice and morality and equality and humanity. All crimes should be condemned. Now that being said, the Holocaust is long gone thankfully so unless this is a strict historical discussion on the Holocaust, the moment any political implication is brought in then it will inevitably turn to a discussion against Israeli crimes, for plenty of reasons but mainly due to the fact that the Holocaust is often exaggerated by Zionist apologists. So honestly, don't be surprised when people bring in the Palestinian narrative. Instead of your sick response that consisted of completely minimizing the decades-long Palestinian struggle, perhaps you could show sympathy equal to that of any historical atrocity, like you do the Holocaust.

Jason P

___________ wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I find it disturbing that when thread on the Holocaust appears on AMT, it quickly digresses to an anti-Israel thread.

I will concede that it wasn't my most elegant response.

JOEJOEJOE

___________ wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I find it disturbing that when thread on the Holocaust appears on AMT, it quickly digresses to an anti-Israel thread.

you participated in the anti-Israel discussion, albeit on the other side, but feel free to take some of the blame you're passing around.

secondly, if anyone had brought up how much they dislike genocide in Darfur, I've a mind you'd have had no problem with it. If anyone had brought up Rwanda, I've a mind you'd have not found it disturbing. If anyone had brought up any other oppression in the world, I've a mind you'd even concur with the poster and say yes, all these crimes of humanity are atrocious. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you are disturbed. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you roll your eyes at the poster who brings them up. You can go ahead and say what you want, but it is this type of reaction, YOUR reaction, that is most disturbing. It is inconsistent with the basic ideals of justice and morality and equality and humanity. All crimes should be condemned. Now that being said, the Holocaust is long gone thankfully so unless this is a strict historical discussion on the Holocaust, the moment any political implication is brought in then it will inevitably turn to a discussion against Israeli crimes, for plenty of reasons but mainly due to the fact that the Holocaust is often exaggerated by Zionist apologists. So honestly, don't be surprised when people bring in the Palestinian narrative. Instead of your sick response that consisted of completely minimizing the decades-long Palestinian struggle, perhaps you could show sympathy equal to that of any historical atrocity, like you do the Holocaust.

What are you personally doing to help the current situation in Palestine?

Do you think that telling people how they should feel will solve any problems?

It seems as if you want to punish your perceived "oppressors", rather then help the perceived "victims".

fuck

Jason P wrote:

___________ wrote:

secondly, if anyone had brought up how much they dislike genocide in Darfur, I've a mind you'd have had no problem with it. If anyone had brought up Rwanda, I've a mind you'd have not found it disturbing. If anyone had brought up any other oppression in the world, I've a mind you'd even concur with the poster and say yes, all these crimes of humanity are atrocious. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you are disturbed. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you roll your eyes at the poster who brings them up. You can go ahead and say what you want, but it is this type of reaction, YOUR reaction, that is most disturbing. It is inconsistent with the basic ideals of justice and morality and equality and humanity. All crimes should be condemned. Now that being said, the Holocaust is long gone thankfully so unless this is a strict historical discussion on the Holocaust, the moment any political implication is brought in then it will inevitably turn to a discussion against Israeli crimes, for plenty of reasons but mainly due to the fact that the Holocaust is often exaggerated by Zionist apologists. So honestly, don't be surprised when people bring in the Palestinian narrative. Instead of your sick response that consisted of completely minimizing the decades-long Palestinian struggle, perhaps you could show sympathy equal to that of any historical atrocity, like you do the Holocaust.

funny you do this right after you yourself exaggerated it and placed the Holocaust on its own pedestal. But whatever. It's really not worth arguing with you anymore, you also seem to lack historical context around a lot of issues, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as well as the exaggeration of the Holocaust and its use as a political tool to further Zionist ambitions, so it's not worth it to get further into this with you.

fuck

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

What are you personally doing to help the current situation in Palestine?

Do you think that telling people how they should feel will solve any problems?

It seems as if you want to punish your perceived "oppressors", rather then help the perceived "victims".

This is just stupid, I don't have to defend myself or my work to anyone

JOEJOEJOE

___________ wrote:

Jason P wrote:

___________ wrote:

secondly, if anyone had brought up how much they dislike genocide in Darfur, I've a mind you'd have had no problem with it. If anyone had brought up Rwanda, I've a mind you'd have not found it disturbing. If anyone had brought up any other oppression in the world, I've a mind you'd even concur with the poster and say yes, all these crimes of humanity are atrocious. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you are disturbed. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you roll your eyes at the poster who brings them up. You can go ahead and say what you want, but it is this type of reaction, YOUR reaction, that is most disturbing. It is inconsistent with the basic ideals of justice and morality and equality and humanity. All crimes should be condemned. Now that being said, the Holocaust is long gone thankfully so unless this is a strict historical discussion on the Holocaust, the moment any political implication is brought in then it will inevitably turn to a discussion against Israeli crimes, for plenty of reasons but mainly due to the fact that the Holocaust is often exaggerated by Zionist apologists. So honestly, don't be surprised when people bring in the Palestinian narrative. Instead of your sick response that consisted of completely minimizing the decades-long Palestinian struggle, perhaps you could show sympathy equal to that of any historical atrocity, like you do the Holocaust.

funny you do this right after you yourself exaggerated it and placed the Holocaust on its own pedestal. But whatever. It's really not worth arguing with you anymore, you also seem to lack historical context around a lot of issues, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as well as the exaggeration of the Holocaust and its use as a political tool to further Zionist ambitions, so it's not worth it to get further into this with you.

How do you expect anyone to listen to your views when you make such statements?

"exaggeration of the Holocaust " ??

wtf?

JOEJOEJOE

___________ wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

What are you personally doing to help the current situation in Palestine?

Do you think that telling people how they should feel will solve any problems?

It seems as if you want to punish your perceived "oppressors", rather then help the perceived "victims".

This is just stupid, I don't have to defend myself or my work to anyone

Of course you don't have to. I am asking a simple question....if you don't want to answer it, that is just fine!

Carry on!

fuck

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

___________ wrote:

funny you do this right after you yourself exaggerated it and placed the Holocaust on its own pedestal. But whatever. It's really not worth arguing with you anymore, you also seem to lack historical context around a lot of issues, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as well as the exaggeration of the Holocaust and its use as a political tool to further Zionist ambitions, so it's not worth it to get further into this with you.

How do you expect anyone to listen to your views when you make such statements?

"exaggeration of the Holocaust " ??

wtf?

it is exaggerated as the worst crime in human history and placed on its own pedestal above all other crimes. that is an exaggeration. I have been very clear with what I mean by that, I don't see why you still don't get it

fuck

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

___________ wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

What are you personally doing to help the current situation in Palestine?

Do you think that telling people how they should feel will solve any problems?

It seems as if you want to punish your perceived "oppressors", rather then help the perceived "victims".

This is just stupid, I don't have to defend myself or my work to anyone

Of course you don't have to. I am asking a simple question....if you don't want to answer it, that is just fine!

Carry on!

If you notice the bolded part then you will see that you were not simply asking a question, you had already derived your own conclusion and used it as an attack on my personal character.

JOEJOEJOE

___________ wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

___________ wrote:

funny you do this right after you yourself exaggerated it and placed the Holocaust on its own pedestal. But whatever. It's really not worth arguing with you anymore, you also seem to lack historical context around a lot of issues, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as well as the exaggeration of the Holocaust and its use as a political tool to further Zionist ambitions, so it's not worth it to get further into this with you.

How do you expect anyone to listen to your views when you make such statements?

"exaggeration of the Holocaust " ??

wtf?

it is exaggerated as the worst crime in human history and placed on its own pedestal above all other crimes. that is an exaggeration. I have been very clear with what I mean by that, I don't see why you still don't get it

How do you exagerate the slaughter of 10,000,000 people in the 20th century?

JOEJOEJOE

Of course you don't have to. I am asking a simple question....if you don't want to answer it, that is just fine!

Carry on![/quote]
If you notice the bolded part then you will see that you were not simply asking a question, you had already derived your own conclusion and used it as an attack on my personal character.[/quote]

I asked 2 questions (punctuated by ?'s at the end)

If you aren't in a state of mind to answer them, I will grab my hat and coat, and be on my way!

fuck

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Of course you don't have to. I am asking a simple question....if you don't want to answer it, that is just fine!

Carry on!

If you notice the bolded part then you will see that you were not simply asking a question, you had already derived your own conclusion and used it as an attack on my personal character.[/quote]

I asked 2 questions (punctuated by ?'s at the end)

If you aren't in a state of mind to answer them, I will grab my hat and coat, and be on my way![/quote]
:-| you're not very sharp are you....

JOEJOEJOE

___________ wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Of course you don't have to. I am asking a simple question....if you don't want to answer it, that is just fine!

Carry on!

If you notice the bolded part then you will see that you were not simply asking a question, you had already derived your own conclusion and used it as an attack on my personal character.

I asked 2 questions (punctuated by ?'s at the end)

If you aren't in a state of mind to answer them, I will grab my hat and coat, and be on my way![/quote]
:-| you're not very sharp are you....[/quote]

Nope, not sharp at all.

pickupyourwill

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

___________ wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Of course you don't have to. I am asking a simple question....if you don't want to answer it, that is just fine!

Carry on!

If you notice the bolded part then you will see that you were not simply asking a question, you had already derived your own conclusion and used it as an attack on my personal character.

I asked 2 questions (punctuated by ?'s at the end)

If you aren't in a state of mind to answer them, I will grab my hat and coat, and be on my way!

:-| you're not very sharp are you....[/quote]

Nope, not sharp at all.[/quote]

lol ...and don't forget your umbrella with your coat and hat--looks like it might rain again.

You guys need to calm down. I haven't read yet what everyone is arguing about on here, but I can already tell you that its not worth getting so worked up about. peace & love

Jason P

___________ wrote:

Jason P wrote:

___________ wrote:

secondly, if anyone had brought up how much they dislike genocide in Darfur, I've a mind you'd have had no problem with it. If anyone had brought up Rwanda, I've a mind you'd have not found it disturbing. If anyone had brought up any other oppression in the world, I've a mind you'd even concur with the poster and say yes, all these crimes of humanity are atrocious. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you are disturbed. It is only when Israeli crimes are mentioned that you roll your eyes at the poster who brings them up. You can go ahead and say what you want, but it is this type of reaction, YOUR reaction, that is most disturbing. It is inconsistent with the basic ideals of justice and morality and equality and humanity. All crimes should be condemned. Now that being said, the Holocaust is long gone thankfully so unless this is a strict historical discussion on the Holocaust, the moment any political implication is brought in then it will inevitably turn to a discussion against Israeli crimes, for plenty of reasons but mainly due to the fact that the Holocaust is often exaggerated by Zionist apologists. So honestly, don't be surprised when people bring in the Palestinian narrative. Instead of your sick response that consisted of completely minimizing the decades-long Palestinian struggle, perhaps you could show sympathy equal to that of any historical atrocity, like you do the Holocaust.

funny you do this right after you yourself exaggerated it and placed the Holocaust on its own pedestal. But whatever. It's really not worth arguing with you anymore, you also seem to lack historical context around a lot of issues, like the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as well as the exaggeration of the Holocaust and its use as a political tool to further Zionist ambitions, so it's not worth it to get further into this with you.

Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry at something else, and are looking to take it out on me?

nuffingman

I'm glad the OP is learning about this. In a few generations it will be part of history and shrugged about. At the end of Shindler's Ark he describes what it was like after the war and how he was spat at etc by some of the German people. It wasn't just the military that had a murderous attitude but a lot of the public as well. Amazing what good brainwashing can do.

I've visited Sachenhausen, Belsen and Auschwicz. Once is enough, it must have been a very sick time to live.