Socialism is what makes football so great

unsung

Isn't the NFL about to have a lockout? I'm just saying.

FiveB247x

We're both now pretty much saying the same thing, but you emphasize the fact that within the socialist confines of the the Salary Cap, it relies on a capitalist market in which players, tickets, etc all have varying costs. I agree, but emphasize the reason the sport as a whole is balanced is the actual cap - the rest works under the confines of the cap for all.

And MikePegg, any sport can be appreciated by fans, but that's not what makes them fair and balanced in terms of competition.

And Unsung, the CBA is up, so they're renegotiating the incomes and sorting out some other issues. What does union negotiations between owners and workers have to do to anything other than simply just that? Not sure what your comment is directed at. Care to explain further?

Jason P wrote:

This is a silly debate, but since the NFL is involved I'll gladly continue.

The premise of revenue sharing may support Bill's socialism theory, but no matter how evenly distributed it is, the capitalist nature of business will find ways to circumvent the system, namely signing bonus (which don't hit the cap) and back-loading the contract so that in the early years of Tom Brady or Peyton Manning's contracts have a negligible hit on the cap. The players reap a huge payday of guaranteed money while the owners can bring in more talent to fit under the cap.

Granted, I do love the notion of the salary cap as evidenced by baseballs chasm of talent. Revenue sharing is great, but it is the salary cap that keeps teams in New York and Chicago outspending smaller markets, not revenue sharing. If revenue sharing was kept intact and the salary cap ended, do you think teams in Jacksonville, Buffalo, and Carolina would be able to field competitive teams?

I'm sure that the owner's of the Jets, Giants, and the Cowboys are making much more off of tickets and concessions then a team like Green Bay (I had a G.B. ticket 20 rows from the 30 yard line and it was $67 two years ago; I imagine that ticket is at least $250 - $400 in NY). If the cap is lifted, those big market teams would still outspend just like in baseball.

whygohome

unsung wrote:

Isn't the NFL about to have a lockout? I'm just saying.

I believe so. And if it does, that will be the beginning of its transformation into the MLB.
I f%$&ing hate professional sports!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A-Roid (Alex Rodriquez) makes $20 million dollars a year to hit a ball with a wooden stick? Let's see him patrol Afghanistan for .001% of that salary. Our society is so f&%$ing backwards.

Blockhead

:roll: Baseball might be the most boring thing to watch in the world as far as sports go, that might play a factor...
also, we can see a socialistic style of economy strive such as seen in the NFL because the population size is 32 and its in each individual within that population's best interest to maximizes their revenues by partaking in this form of economy.
If the population is over a billion (see Russia / China), then the dividends become diluted and the results are not nearly as lucrative and the model falls apart.
The NFL is an example of socialism succeeding on a small scale.

Jason P

whygohome wrote:

unsung wrote:

Isn't the NFL about to have a lockout? I'm just saying.

I believe so. And if it does, that will be the beginning of its transformation into the MLB.
I f%$&ing hate professional sports!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A-Roid (Alex Rodriquez) makes $20 million dollars a year to hit a ball with a wooden stick? Let's see him patrol Afghanistan for .001% of that salary. Our society is so f&%$ing backwards.

He actually made $33M last year to hit balls.

Backstop-440

The main problem there is that there's, what, a few dozen guys that can hit a ball like A-Rod does, and millions of people that want to see it. But there's thousands of guys that can patrol the sandbox and ain't nobody wanting to see that.

Jason P

Backstop-440 wrote:

The main problem there is that there's, what, a few dozen guys that can hit a ball like A-Rod does, and millions of people that want to see it. But there's thousands of guys that can patrol the sandbox and ain't nobody wanting to see that.

Just like Pearl Jam's music and Tom Cruise's acting, baseball is a form of entertainment and those that entertain us the most get paid accordingly.

Jeanwah

pandora wrote:

He may have a point but I was really glad those weren't your words .... Friend

I honestly don't care much for NFL football, but like the politics of Bill Maher sometimes!

unsung

I read somewhere that someone was saying Arod wouldn't eat a Snickers because of what it would do to his body. Didn't Arod claim to not know what he was injecting?

His contract is amazing but Albert Pujols will top it. Word is 10 years/$300M, and he is currently 31 from what I was just told.

BinauralJam

unsung wrote:

I read somewhere that someone was saying Arod wouldn't eat a Snickers because of what it would do to his body. Didn't Arod claim to not know what he was injecting?

His contract is amazing but Albert Pujols will top it. Word is 10 years/$300M, and he is currently 31 from what I was just told.

Pujols is the only All Star Calibur Dominican not to get caught. Hmmm walks like a duck...

youngster

PJ88 wrote:

Solat13 wrote:

Maher does realize that there was no salary cap this year and there is no guarantee that a salary cap will ever return to football right?

It's not like every team has the same payroll. The difference is not as dramatic as in baseball but the Raiders payroll this year was 70 million more than the Chiefs.

Give the NFL time and if no salary cap is put in place and the haves and haves not will emerge.

Just a bit off topic, but, Solat13, is your avatar a real sticker? I have never seen one and that is awesome!

It is a real sticker. I have one on the back window of my truck.

whygohome

unsung wrote:

I read somewhere that someone was saying Arod wouldn't eat a Snickers because of what it would do to his body. Didn't Arod claim to not know what he was injecting?

His contract is amazing but Albert Pujols will top it. Word is 10 years/$300M, and he is currently 31 from what I was just told.

I am going to puke.

FiveB247x

Not solely directed at you, but I don't understand why people blame athletes for making such high salaries. The money is there for the taking and the fans and society pay, so why blame them?

whygohome wrote:

unsung wrote:

I read somewhere that someone was saying Arod wouldn't eat a Snickers because of what it would do to his body. Didn't Arod claim to not know what he was injecting?

His contract is amazing but Albert Pujols will top it. Word is 10 years/$300M, and he is currently 31 from what I was just told.

I am going to puke.

whygohome

FiveB247x wrote:

Not solely directed at you, but I don't understand why people blame athletes for making such high salaries. The money is there for the taking and the fans and society pay, so why blame them?

whygohome wrote:

unsung wrote:

I read somewhere that someone was saying Arod wouldn't eat a Snickers because of what it would do to his body. Didn't Arod claim to not know what he was injecting?

His contract is amazing but Albert Pujols will top it. Word is 10 years/$300M, and he is currently 31 from what I was just told.

I am going to puke.

I'm not blaming athletes, actors, or musicians. I understand the entertainment industry. I realize there is an element of supply and demand. However, I still feel the system is backwards. And there's this: think about all the other places where this money could go. feeding underprivileged children, education, infrastructure, parks, rec. areas, federal grants for research on heart disease and cancer, and on and on.
For a family of four to go to a game at Yankee Stadium costs a disgusting amount. paying these players less brings down the costs on game tickets, merchandise, etc. Pump the money back into the system to make life better for all, not just those that can put a round ball through a hoop. (Here come the socialist accusations).
http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homework ... 01075.html
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/07/0 ... tainme.htm

Tax the teams and tax the players making tens of millions of dollars. Put the money to some good use. Some will say that I am attacking capitalism. I dare not piss on the bible. I'm tired. Good night.

FiveB247x

Well albeit a great and nice idea, this isn't the society or civilization we live in. No one cares because if they did, the world as we see it wouldn't exist as it does.

whygohome wrote:

'm not blaming athletes, actors, or musicians. I understand the entertainment industry. I realize there is an element of supply and demand. However, I still feel the system is backwards. And there's this: think about all the other places where this money could go. feeding underprivileged children, education, infrastructure, parks, rec. areas, federal grants for research on heart disease and cancer, and on and on.
For a family of four to go to a game at Yankee Stadium costs a disgusting amount. paying these players less brings down the costs on game tickets, merchandise, etc. Pump the money back into the system to make life better for all, not just those that can put a round ball through a hoop. (Here come the socialist accusations).
http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homework ... 01075.html
http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/07/0 ... tainme.htm

Tax the teams and tax the players making tens of millions of dollars. Put the money to some good use. Some will say that I am attacking capitalism. I dare not piss on the bible. I'm tired. Good night.

The Juggler

well bill mahr clearly doesn't understand how baseball operates....hence the main point of his article is meaningless.

unsung

FiveB247x wrote:

Not solely directed at you, but I don't understand why people blame athletes for making such high salaries. The money is there for the taking and the fans and society pay, so why blame them?

Jealousy.

FiveB247x

Well if it's simply jealousy, that doesn't say much about the character of people huh?

unsung wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

Not solely directed at you, but I don't understand why people blame athletes for making such high salaries. The money is there for the taking and the fans and society pay, so why blame them?

Jealousy.

lukin2006

Jeanwah wrote:

New Rule: With the Super Bowl only a week away, Americans must realize what makes NFL football so great: socialism. That's right, for all the F-15 flyovers and flag waving, football is our most successful sport because the NFL takes money from the rich teams and gives it to the poor teams... just like President Obama wants to do with his secret army of ACORN volunteers. Green Bay, Wisconsin has a population of 100,000. Yet this sleepy little town on the banks of the Fuck-if-I-know River has just as much of a chance of making it to the Super Bowl as the New York Jets - who next year need to just shut the hell up and play.

Now, me personally, I haven't watched a Super Bowl since 2004, when Janet Jackson's nipple popped out during half time, and that split-second glimpse of an unrestrained black titty burned my eyes and offended me as a Christian. But I get it - who doesn't love the spectacle of juiced-up millionaires giving each other brain damage on a giant flat-screen TV with a picture so realistic it feels like Ben Roethlisberger is in your living room, grabbing your sister?

It's no surprise that some 100 million Americans will watch the Super Bowl next week - that's 40 million more than go to church on Christmas - suck on that, Jesus! It's also 85 million more than watched the last game of the World Series, and in that is an economic lesson for America. Because football is built on an economic model of fairness and opportunity, and baseball is built on a model where the rich almost always win and the poor usually have no chance. The World Series is like Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. You have to be a rich bitch just to play. The Super Bowl is like Tila Tequila. Anyone can get in.

Or to put it another way, football is more like the Democratic philosophy. Democrats don't want to eliminate capitalism or competition, but they'd like it if some kids didn't have to go to a crummy school in a rotten neighborhood while others get to go to a great school and their Dad gets them into Harvard. Because when that happens "achieving the American dream" is easy for some, and just a fantasy for others.

That's why the NFL runs itself in a way that would fit nicely on Glenn Beck's chalkboard - they literally share the wealth, through salary caps and revenue sharing - TV is their biggest source of revenue, and they put all of it in a big commie pot and split it 32 ways. Because they don't want anyone to fall too far behind. That's why the team that wins the Super Bowl picks last in the next draft. Or what the Republicans would call "punishing success."

Baseball, on the other hand, is exactly like the Republicans, and I don't just mean it's incredibly boring. I mean their economic theory is every man for himself. The small market Pittsburgh Steelers go to the Super Bowl more than anybody - but the Pittsburgh Pirates? Levi Johnston has sperm that will not grow up and live long enough to see the Pirates in a World Series. Their payroll is about $40 million, and the Yankees is $206 million. They have about as much chance at getting in the playoffs as a poor black teenager from Newark has of becoming the CEO of Halliburton. That's why people stop going to Pirate games in May, because if you're not in the game, you become indifferent to the fate of the game, and maybe even get bitter - that's what's happening to the middle class in America. It's also how Marie Antoinette lost her head.

So, you kind of have to laugh - the same angry white males who hate Obama because he's "redistributing wealth" just love football, a sport that succeeds economically because it does exactly that. To them, the NFL is as American as hot dogs, Chevrolet, apple pie, and a second, giant helping of apple pie. But then again, they think they're macho because their sport is football, when honestly - is there anything gayer than wearing another man's shirt?

By Bill Maher http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mahe ... 15673.html

Whether you like him or hate him, Maher does have a point here.

I could be wrong here, but they distribute the TV revenue equally. Do they distribute the gate receipts, parking, concessions, luxury box, merchandise, etc equally?

When players are cut or released they don't keep paying them past the current season, baseball players are sometimes paid the balance of the contract, that never happens in football.

They also don't distribute the payroll equally, you have some very rich players and some not so very rich players. I really don't see the comparison. Green Bay and Pittsburgh, I think are poor examples, they are 2 very popular teams that sell out very large stadiums weekly and have a huge far following where ever they go. For every Pittsburgh and Green Bay, there is a Jacksonville or Carolina teams which have had mild success at times.

The Juggler

lukin2006 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

New Rule: With the Super Bowl only a week away, Americans must realize what makes NFL football so great: socialism. That's right, for all the F-15 flyovers and flag waving, football is our most successful sport because the NFL takes money from the rich teams and gives it to the poor teams... just like President Obama wants to do with his secret army of ACORN volunteers. Green Bay, Wisconsin has a population of 100,000. Yet this sleepy little town on the banks of the Fuck-if-I-know River has just as much of a chance of making it to the Super Bowl as the New York Jets - who next year need to just shut the hell up and play.

Now, me personally, I haven't watched a Super Bowl since 2004, when Janet Jackson's nipple popped out during half time, and that split-second glimpse of an unrestrained black titty burned my eyes and offended me as a Christian. But I get it - who doesn't love the spectacle of juiced-up millionaires giving each other brain damage on a giant flat-screen TV with a picture so realistic it feels like Ben Roethlisberger is in your living room, grabbing your sister?

It's no surprise that some 100 million Americans will watch the Super Bowl next week - that's 40 million more than go to church on Christmas - suck on that, Jesus! It's also 85 million more than watched the last game of the World Series, and in that is an economic lesson for America. Because football is built on an economic model of fairness and opportunity, and baseball is built on a model where the rich almost always win and the poor usually have no chance. The World Series is like Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. You have to be a rich bitch just to play. The Super Bowl is like Tila Tequila. Anyone can get in.

Or to put it another way, football is more like the Democratic philosophy. Democrats don't want to eliminate capitalism or competition, but they'd like it if some kids didn't have to go to a crummy school in a rotten neighborhood while others get to go to a great school and their Dad gets them into Harvard. Because when that happens "achieving the American dream" is easy for some, and just a fantasy for others.

That's why the NFL runs itself in a way that would fit nicely on Glenn Beck's chalkboard - they literally share the wealth, through salary caps and revenue sharing - TV is their biggest source of revenue, and they put all of it in a big commie pot and split it 32 ways. Because they don't want anyone to fall too far behind. That's why the team that wins the Super Bowl picks last in the next draft. Or what the Republicans would call "punishing success."

Baseball, on the other hand, is exactly like the Republicans, and I don't just mean it's incredibly boring. I mean their economic theory is every man for himself. The small market Pittsburgh Steelers go to the Super Bowl more than anybody - but the Pittsburgh Pirates? Levi Johnston has sperm that will not grow up and live long enough to see the Pirates in a World Series. Their payroll is about $40 million, and the Yankees is $206 million. They have about as much chance at getting in the playoffs as a poor black teenager from Newark has of becoming the CEO of Halliburton. That's why people stop going to Pirate games in May, because if you're not in the game, you become indifferent to the fate of the game, and maybe even get bitter - that's what's happening to the middle class in America. It's also how Marie Antoinette lost her head.

So, you kind of have to laugh - the same angry white males who hate Obama because he's "redistributing wealth" just love football, a sport that succeeds economically because it does exactly that. To them, the NFL is as American as hot dogs, Chevrolet, apple pie, and a second, giant helping of apple pie. But then again, they think they're macho because their sport is football, when honestly - is there anything gayer than wearing another man's shirt?

By Bill Maher http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mahe ... 15673.html

Whether you like him or hate him, Maher does have a point here.

I could be wrong here, but they distribute the TV revenue equally. Do they distribute the gate receipts, parking, concessions, luxury box, merchandise, etc equally?

When players are cut or released they don't keep paying them past the current season, baseball players are sometimes paid the balance of the contract, that never happens in football.

They also don't distribute the payroll equally, you have some very rich players and some not so very rich players. I really don't see the comparison. Green Bay and Pittsburgh, I think are poor examples, they are 2 very popular teams that sell out very large stadiums weekly and have a huge far following where ever they go. For every Pittsburgh and Green Bay, there is a Jacksonville or Carolina teams which have had mild success at times.

don't think mahr is a sports fan...