I don't own anything of value except my house and my car. Even my furniture and clothes are pretty much worthless. But you know what??? I really fucking enjoy taking two weeks to follow Pearl Jam or Furthur, or going to Jamaica, or spending a week skiing in Vermont. I could choose to not increase my worth to society so that I'm as valuable as an illegal immigrant who can't even speak the fucking language, and then not have any opportunity to do these things. But, that seems like a lazy and stupid way to go about life.
I don't really know why I'm defending myself to a bunch of contrarians who can't seem to understand a very simple point. Money ain't everything but SOMETIMES it is really fucking nice to have. Or do none of you go to see Pearl Jam shows? Or do anything that requires leaving your city and enjoying life? For Christ's fucking sake... You can't do these things making minimum wage because you're in the same job market as an illegal immigrant.
I don't know... I was raised on a simple practice in terms of buying something my dad always said "is it a want, or is it a need" wants are nice things to have, but you don't NEED them. After having a family, i pretty much save all my money and realize that my money would be much better suited for an emergency ie fixing something for your house/car/health/childrens clothes, etc... I don't think basing someone worth/value to society should be a monitary thing. I think the best way to payback and give value to society is to raise sucessful, (not monitary) respectful, honorable, humble children. PJ shows are nice and I try to go to the ones that I can drive to, But I also save for years for that. Its a very steep hill if you base human valaue on Money and Jobs.
I'm not defining the value of life as money and jobs.
We live in a world where for the first time EVER... in the 100,000 years of our existence... we can do pretty much anything we want. Life is fucking amazing and you (everybody) have the chance to see anything in the world. 200 years ago (or even 100) that would have seemed impossible. Some people (and I have no fucking clue why) think that I'm talking about things, possessions, artifacts. I'm not. I'm talking about EXPERIENCE. That is what life is about man! "The felt presence of immediate experience" as Terence McKenna called it. You can experience the whole world, different cultures, exotic landscapes, or whatever your heart desires. But it takes tickets to go on the ride! I wish it didn't... the human race has the capability to have a utopia where everyone has a full belly and a warm home and the chance to do these things... but we live in a Corporate Technocracy where the haves have not a clue but here at the AMT we are arguing about which "haves" should lead us in our lives. I don't need to be led, and neither do you! You're handing over your responsibility to someone else when you ask for the government to protect your job or when you expect a job without any education, training, or talent. If you're competing for the same job as an illegal immigrant you have done absolutely nothing insofar as improving on any single one of those. Then you're stuck... you don't have any options... no chance for experiencing this short and strange life. You can experience life within your limited Karass and THAT is individually more important than anything else... but there is more to life than that. You are your worst enemy... your ONLY enemy.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Seriously, if you're (I'm using the "you" pronoun because I'm lazy not because I think YOU are) in the same job market as an illegal immigrant you are a loser of such epic proportions that it's not funny. They don't speak the language and that's a huge negative for many people, but jesus christ, what do they do your job training in? Pantomime? You never see people with even a SEMBLANCE of talent, training, or intelligence that is complaining about losing their job to an illegal immigrant.
Go ahead. They don't exist dude, and you know it. Illegal immigrants can't get a job building a house, that is silly. They work in fields, pack boxes, absolutely MINDLESS stuff. I've NEVER heard of first hand experience of someone losing a job to an illegal immigrant, and I lived in Arizona for three years. I don't know why people have this attitude of "I won't be arsed to learn a trade or become VALUABLE in my occupation!!!" Just a little bit of work towards a talent, a trade, an education, whatever... and you don't have to worry about "der takin err joooobz!"
hanging sheetrock, laying tile, even painting... those tasks are almost NEVER done by immigrants, at least in Arizona (where a huge % of the population is illegal). Some of my good friends out there own a residential renovation/building business and they said that illegals don't get involved in that stuff. Landscaping maybe... and some mindless work like packing boxes... but I just don't buy that illegals are constructing homes.
If the best thing you can do is hang sheetrock then you've failed as a human being. I hate to sound insensitive but this is a COMPETITIVE world we live in. It's your g'damn DUTY to be skilled at something to provide for yourself and your family. You can argue against that but if you do you're arguing against capitalism...
I thought I made it abundantly clear that I'm advocating this lifestyle... but that's the way capitalism works. Think of money as tickets. You need tickets to go on the ride. Without tickets you can't experience much in this world beyond a subsistence lifestyle. Sure you can have a good family, friends, be healthy, and so forth (which is great for a lot of people) but for Christ's sake, we live in a world where you can hop on a plane tomorrow and go see Macchu Picchu, or jump from a plane from 10,000 feet, or sail across an ocean, or drive a fucking Ferrari, or even go into outer fucking space IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH TICKETS to play the game, enjoy the rides.
If you're in a job where you can't even beat out an illegal immigrant for tickets... you have absolutely failed in the 21st century capitalistic world if you want to enjoy the ride of life. If you're fine not going on the ride then fine... I'm not here to judge anyone...
I think I'm developing a hatred of liberalism even though I identify with it exponentially more than modern day conservatism. Somehow people are worried about their job being taken away by an illegal immigrant... paradoxically they are also complaining that they don't speak the language but that person can take your job?!?! Do they do the job training in pantomime??? Shit they don't even have a damn change of clothes or access to running water and their shoes have holes... Yet we're worried about these people taking our jobs? How is this not clear??? You are in the same job market as a homeless person who doesn't speak English. EPIC FAIL. The only way that can happen is if you did horribly in school, never paid attention to anything, never worked hard a day in your life, never educated yourself, never developed a hobby (which includes the arts or writing or other creative outlets), never learned a skill or trade, or have done literally anything except waste away your life watching TV or reading Us Weekly. I give up.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I'm not defining the value of life as money and jobs.
We live in a world where for the first time EVER... in the 100,000 years of our existence... we can do pretty much anything we want. True Life is fucking amazing and you (everybody) have the chance to see anything in the world. Yes we do 200 years ago (or even 100) that would have seemed impossible. Some people (and I have no fucking clue why) think that I'm talking about things, possessions, artifacts. I'm not. I know, as I'm sure most do. I hope I'm talking about EXPERIENCE. That is what life is about man! That's a big part of it "The felt presence of immediate experience" as Terence McKenna called it. You can experience the whole world, different cultures, exotic landscapes, or whatever your heart desires. And we should But it takes tickets to go on the ride! Tickets means money, right. if so, I sadly agree I wish it didn't me too... the human race has the capability to have a utopia where everyone has a full belly and a warm home and the chance to do these things I would participate ... but we live in a Corporate Technocracy It's true, but I like to call it a Corporate Oligarchy. where the haves have not a clue but here at the AMT we are arguing about which "haves" should lead us in our lives. Very good point I don't need to be led, and neither do you! Drop the leash, drop the leash!! You're handing over your responsibility to someone else when you ask for the government to protect your job or when you expect a job without any education, training, or talent. Are there people out there that really think this? if so, and I think it is so, then that is scary If you're competing for the same job as an illegal immigrant you have done absolutely nothing insofar as improving on any single one of those. I agree with the personal responsibility aspect of this statement. However, some people just fall on hard times. Then they "get stuck" in a place they don't want to be. (I do agree though, that people should not expect the gov't to help them out in any way above and beyond the responsibilities/duties of the gov't Then you're stuck... you don't have any options... no chance for experiencing this short and strange life. You can experience life within your limited Karass and THAT is individually more important than anything else... but there is more to life than that. You are your worst enemy... your ONLY enemy. Know your enemy. Who are you?
Your right... People taking responsibility for their own life is an absurd expectation...
What do you want to do with them you ask, how about a little tough love and let them take responsibility for their actions. Why do you think its acceptable for welfare families to continue to have children that they can not take care of, not even buy them basic school supplies???
...
Do you think the children that are born into poverty got a chance to decide to be born into poverty?
And do you seriously think that people set a goal to be poor enough to receive welfare? Seriously?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
my worth to society is not defined by how much money I make or what kind of job I have or what mountains I've visited. It's what I do outside of those things that make me who I am.
I frankly don't give a shit what you enjoy. that's great for you. But that's not great for me. I don't have a lot of money, and it doesn't matter to me. I have what I want, and I love what I have (including my two beautiful girls and my smokin' wife). I'm thankful for it all. You seem to be putting forth the sentiment that people SHOULD care about money so they can go on trips. All many people care about is getting their next meal.
By the way, don't act like some kind of martyr for not having any "possessions". You covet your travels, and that's the same thing. You are entitled to it, I'm just saying, making the comment that you own nothing of worth is kind of silly in the same sentence as all the jet-setting you say you like to do.
Telling someone they are crazy or stupid for not going about life how you do is incredibly ignorant. There's a reason you keep defending yourself.
If you're in a job where you can't even beat out an illegal immigrant for tickets... you have absolutely failed in the 21st century capitalistic world if you want to enjoy the ride of life. If you're fine not going on the ride then fine... I'm not here to judge anyone.
telling me I failed because I don't have enough tickets to catch a ride to the moon sounds like judgment to me. sounds like a spoiled brat talking, to be honest with you (not saying you are, I just picture some dumb-ass socialite saying something like this).
I grew up on a farm, paid my own way through college and grad school, and now I'm a CPA and hope to be a farmer again within 10 or 15 years. I grew up on food stamps and WalMart clothes.
I don't own anything of value except my house and my car. Even my furniture and clothes are pretty much worthless. But you know what??? I really fucking enjoy taking two weeks to follow Pearl Jam or Furthur, or going to Jamaica, or spending a week skiing in Vermont. I could choose to not increase my worth to society so that I'm as valuable as an illegal immigrant who can't even speak the fucking language, and then not have any opportunity to do these things. But, that seems like a lazy and stupid way to go about life.
I don't really know why I'm defending myself to a bunch of contrarians who can't seem to understand a very simple point. Money ain't everything but SOMETIMES it is really fucking nice to have. Or do none of you go to see Pearl Jam shows? Or do anything that requires leaving your city and enjoying life? For Christ's fucking sake... You can't do these things making minimum wage because you're in the same job market as an illegal immigrant.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I could choose to not increase my worth to society so that I'm as valuable as an illegal immigrant who can't even speak the fucking language, and then not have any opportunity to do these things.
alright, that's about enough for me. :shock:
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Your right... People taking responsibility for their own life is an absurd expectation...
What do you want to do with them you ask, how about a little tough love and let them take responsibility for their actions. Why do you think its acceptable for welfare families to continue to have children that they can not take care of, not even buy them basic school supplies???
...
Do you think the children that are born into poverty got a chance to decide to be born into poverty?
And do you seriously think that people set a goal to be poor enough to receive welfare? Seriously?
No they don't. But not everybody is delt the same hand in life... Are you of the thought that life should be fair??? And seeing how all oportunities are equal these days, we all have the ability to succeed poor or not.
And YES people do set a goal to recieve welfare. Are you from the US??? Have you ever been to an innercity. Welfare is now a lifestyle pass on from generation to generation. They get rewarded monitarily with each child, and now recieve wants instead of basic needs, Free housing, free food, etc. So yes, it is pretty obvious when 40% of a minority that makes up about 12% of the US that their goal is living off welfare/Gov.
I'm glad to contribute my tax dollars to anything that shows at it's core what buffoons the American public are by their lack of effort, care or participation. Everyone walks around bitching bout nonsensical secondary issues like guns, religion/morality and accountability... everyone has a way or plan of telling everyone else how they should be living and how the nation would be great for it. Yet no one does shit other than out of self-interest and we live in a fully consumer driven junkie culture which worships popularity, entitlement and greed. So while everyone else walks around complaining about what our leaders are doing to ruin our nation and future, I take it for what it is, our failures as a society feeding a broken and impenetrable system to continue our own demise. But in hindsight, I'm sure it's just all the gays, immigrants and liberals fault..right?
Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the official claimed the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I have not read this whole thread but I have said it many times on this board before
Welfare does NOT exist anymore, not like some of you think, I'm not sure what California does.... but i get really tired of people talking about welfare like this is the 80's or 90's. Go do your research on policies over the last 20 years that affect the poor. Go back and read about the welfare reform that took place in '96.
I work in one of the largest public housing communities in the country and don't see too many people who get cash assistance anymore, they get a lot provided for them including their housing which is federally subsidized but they barely get the essentials..... say what you will.
Comments
I'm not defining the value of life as money and jobs.
We live in a world where for the first time EVER... in the 100,000 years of our existence... we can do pretty much anything we want. Life is fucking amazing and you (everybody) have the chance to see anything in the world. 200 years ago (or even 100) that would have seemed impossible. Some people (and I have no fucking clue why) think that I'm talking about things, possessions, artifacts. I'm not. I'm talking about EXPERIENCE. That is what life is about man! "The felt presence of immediate experience" as Terence McKenna called it. You can experience the whole world, different cultures, exotic landscapes, or whatever your heart desires. But it takes tickets to go on the ride! I wish it didn't... the human race has the capability to have a utopia where everyone has a full belly and a warm home and the chance to do these things... but we live in a Corporate Technocracy where the haves have not a clue but here at the AMT we are arguing about which "haves" should lead us in our lives. I don't need to be led, and neither do you! You're handing over your responsibility to someone else when you ask for the government to protect your job or when you expect a job without any education, training, or talent. If you're competing for the same job as an illegal immigrant you have done absolutely nothing insofar as improving on any single one of those. Then you're stuck... you don't have any options... no chance for experiencing this short and strange life. You can experience life within your limited Karass and THAT is individually more important than anything else... but there is more to life than that. You are your worst enemy... your ONLY enemy.
no, you didn't make it abundantly clear.
this is torture... Jesus.
I'm not defining the value of life as money and jobs.
We live in a world where for the first time EVER... in the 100,000 years of our existence... we can do pretty much anything we want. True Life is fucking amazing and you (everybody) have the chance to see anything in the world. Yes we do 200 years ago (or even 100) that would have seemed impossible. Some people (and I have no fucking clue why) think that I'm talking about things, possessions, artifacts. I'm not. I know, as I'm sure most do. I hope I'm talking about EXPERIENCE. That is what life is about man! That's a big part of it "The felt presence of immediate experience" as Terence McKenna called it. You can experience the whole world, different cultures, exotic landscapes, or whatever your heart desires. And we should But it takes tickets to go on the ride! Tickets means money, right. if so, I sadly agree I wish it didn't me too... the human race has the capability to have a utopia where everyone has a full belly and a warm home and the chance to do these things I would participate ... but we live in a Corporate Technocracy It's true, but I like to call it a Corporate Oligarchy. where the haves have not a clue but here at the AMT we are arguing about which "haves" should lead us in our lives. Very good point I don't need to be led, and neither do you! Drop the leash, drop the leash!! You're handing over your responsibility to someone else when you ask for the government to protect your job or when you expect a job without any education, training, or talent. Are there people out there that really think this? if so, and I think it is so, then that is scary If you're competing for the same job as an illegal immigrant you have done absolutely nothing insofar as improving on any single one of those. I agree with the personal responsibility aspect of this statement. However, some people just fall on hard times. Then they "get stuck" in a place they don't want to be. (I do agree though, that people should not expect the gov't to help them out in any way above and beyond the responsibilities/duties of the gov't Then you're stuck... you don't have any options... no chance for experiencing this short and strange life. You can experience life within your limited Karass and THAT is individually more important than anything else... but there is more to life than that. You are your worst enemy... your ONLY enemy. Know your enemy. Who are you?
Do you think the children that are born into poverty got a chance to decide to be born into poverty?
And do you seriously think that people set a goal to be poor enough to receive welfare? Seriously?
Hail, Hail!!!
I frankly don't give a shit what you enjoy. that's great for you. But that's not great for me. I don't have a lot of money, and it doesn't matter to me. I have what I want, and I love what I have (including my two beautiful girls and my smokin' wife). I'm thankful for it all. You seem to be putting forth the sentiment that people SHOULD care about money so they can go on trips. All many people care about is getting their next meal.
By the way, don't act like some kind of martyr for not having any "possessions". You covet your travels, and that's the same thing. You are entitled to it, I'm just saying, making the comment that you own nothing of worth is kind of silly in the same sentence as all the jet-setting you say you like to do.
Telling someone they are crazy or stupid for not going about life how you do is incredibly ignorant. There's a reason you keep defending yourself.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
alright, that's about enough for me. :shock:
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
And YES people do set a goal to recieve welfare. Are you from the US??? Have you ever been to an innercity. Welfare is now a lifestyle pass on from generation to generation. They get rewarded monitarily with each child, and now recieve wants instead of basic needs, Free housing, free food, etc. So yes, it is pretty obvious when 40% of a minority that makes up about 12% of the US that their goal is living off welfare/Gov.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Welfare does NOT exist anymore, not like some of you think, I'm not sure what California does.... but i get really tired of people talking about welfare like this is the 80's or 90's. Go do your research on policies over the last 20 years that affect the poor. Go back and read about the welfare reform that took place in '96.
I work in one of the largest public housing communities in the country and don't see too many people who get cash assistance anymore, they get a lot provided for them including their housing which is federally subsidized but they barely get the essentials..... say what you will.