How can anyone justify this?

unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
edited January 2011 in A Moving Train
Welfare Tab for Children of Illegal Aliens costs $600M in L.A. County


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01 ... la-county/


Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the official claimed the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • usamamasan1usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    I can't, makes me ill.
  • satansbedsatansbed Posts: 2,139
    unsung wrote:
    Welfare Tab for Children of Illegal Aliens costs $600M in L.A. County


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01 ... la-county/


    Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the official claimed the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010.

    cause they are still human beings
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Anyone got any viable solutions?
    And if you offer up the 'deport them all' solutions... you have to solve the problems that would be created filling those jobs with illegal, sub-standard pay that would arise. First off... where are you going to get the resources to identify, locate and deport them? How many people do you need to hire to deport them? What is that effort going to cost? Where is the money to pay for this going to come from? What Americans would be willing to fill those jobs... working long shifts, under minimum wage? And would those Americans be collecting the welfare and food stamps to get them to the poverty line? What would the savings be? What would the consequences be? How do you solve those problems?
    ...
    Point being... any idiot can point out a problem. Solving it is much tougher.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    unsung wrote:
    Welfare Tab for Children of Illegal Aliens costs $600M in L.A. County


    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01 ... la-county/


    Combined with public safety costs and health care costs, the official claimed the "total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers" was more than $1.6 billion in 2010.

    Terrible. I believe in Welfare, unemployment, etc., but this simply is not right. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
  • I disagree. Most of those jobs pay peanuts. Americans and Canadians don't get off the couch for peanuts when the government will supply them with free steak.
    unsung wrote:
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.
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  • You realize that $600 million dollars is less than the bonuses given to the CEOs of all the banks that got bailed out AND still managed to partake in a lot of mortgage fraud right?

    $600 million is a drop in the bucket, I'm afraid.

    But you go on with your diverting us with your phony indignation. Let's see how you feel when you have to pay 3 times as much for produce and the gardens in Palm Springs all become dead weeds in 2 months.
  • satansbedsatansbed Posts: 2,139
    sorry but what is wrong with it
    Antonovich's figures, though, center on costs generated by American-born children of illegal immigrants. Isabel Alegria, communications director at the California Immigrant Policy Center, said it's "unfair" to roll together costs associated with both illegal immigrants and U.S.-born citizens.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01 ... z1BZsGGLWa
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Cosmo wrote:
    Anyone got any viable solutions?
    And if you offer up the 'deport them all' solutions... you have to solve the problems that would be created filling those jobs with illegal, sub-standard pay that would arise. First off... where are you going to get the resources to identify, locate and deport them? How many people do you need to hire to deport them? What is that effort going to cost? Where is the money to pay for this going to come from? What Americans would be willing to fill those jobs... working long shifts, under minimum wage? And would those Americans be collecting the welfare and food stamps to get them to the poverty line? What would the savings be? What would the consequences be? How do you solve those problems?
    ...
    Point being... any idiot can point out a problem. Solving it is much tougher.


    "Point being... any idiot can point out a problem. Solving it is much tougher."

    Cosmo thats what this train forum is all about "bitching and whining w/no solutions" or in a nicer way of putting it "debating" right ? :lol:

    Godfather.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    The vast majority of welfare doled out can't be justified in my mind. To me it doesn't make it worse if they happen to be illegal. The problem is much, much bigger than that. It's like complaining about one bag of trash in a landfill.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Jasunmark wrote:
    You realize that $600 million dollars is less than the bonuses given to the CEOs of all the banks that got bailed out AND still managed to partake in a lot of mortgage fraud right?

    $600 million is a drop in the bucket, I'm afraid.

    But you go on with your diverting us with your phony indignation. Let's see how you feel when you have to pay 3 times as much for produce and the gardens in Palm Springs all become dead weeds in 2 months.


    Ahh - the appearance of the apples to aardvarks comparison.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • unsung wrote:
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.

    Sounds easy in theory, but not so much in practice...

    Illegal immigrants keep business costs down in a lot of industries, thus keeping the cost down to consumers. If we really go balls out in outlawing all hiring of illegals, we better be willing to support the higher costs of goods and services, and be ready for more outsourcing of jobs to parts of the world with much cheaper labor.

    It's easy to point out these obvious problems, but one of the reasons that these problems (illegal immigration, "to big to fail" companies, etc) don't get solved, is that there is no good way to prevent the countless dominoes falling afterwards.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    unsung wrote:
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.


    This!
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    Jasunmark wrote:
    You realize that $600 million dollars is less than the bonuses given to the CEOs of all the banks that got bailed out AND still managed to partake in a lot of mortgage fraud right?

    $600 million is a drop in the bucket, I'm afraid.

    But you go on with your diverting us with your phony indignation. Let's see how you feel when you have to pay 3 times as much for produce and the gardens in Palm Springs all become dead weeds in 2 months.

    The CEOs belong in jail. They ruined peoples' lives; a jail sentence is justifiable.

    As for your comment on produce, you are absolutely correct. Produce across the board - grocery stores, restaurants - would see a spike in prices.
  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    unsung wrote:
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.

    Just personal experience here, but in south florida, there are a ton of Illegals who work for people and there isnt likely a line to a CEO anywhere. They dont work for corporations.

    However, I have noticed since the decline in the economy, that many have 'self-deported', so I could see some leaving if their jobs were in jeopardy. But then again, I think they might just work harder at become legitimate citizens.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • unsung wrote:
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.

    Just personal experience here, but in south florida, there are a ton of Illegals who work for people and there isnt likely a line to a CEO anywhere. They dont work for corporations.

    However, I have noticed since the decline in the economy, that many have 'self-deported', so I could see some leaving if their jobs were in jeopardy. But then again, I think they might just work harder at become legitimate citizens.

    even small companies, farms, etc (where illegals are employed) are often set up as a corporation. My company has 200 employees and is a corporation - and therefore has a CEO. If it's an LLC, LLP, sole proprietorship, etc - you could then target the President of the company.

    But, I'm not saying I agree with doing that. :D

    Personally, I don't have a problem with feeding illegals if they will starve otherwise. I prefer to focus on the human being and not those imaginary boundaries we draw in the sand. It seems that we're not willing to take care of each other so I don't have a problem sending money to the government to feed those people.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    unsung wrote:
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.

    Just personal experience here, but in south florida, there are a ton of Illegals who work for people and there isnt likely a line to a CEO anywhere. They dont work for corporations.

    However, I have noticed since the decline in the economy, that many have 'self-deported', so I could see some leaving if their jobs were in jeopardy. But then again, I think they might just work harder at become legitimate citizens.

    even small companies, farms, etc (where illegals are employed) are often set up as a corporation. My company has 200 employees and is a corporation - and therefore has a CEO. If it's an LLC, LLP, sole proprietorship, etc - you could then target the President of the company.

    But, I'm not saying I agree with doing that. :D

    Personally, I don't have a problem with feeding illegals if they will starve otherwise. I prefer to focus on the human being and not those imaginary boundaries we draw in the sand. It seems that we're not willing to take care of each other so I don't have a problem sending money to the government to feed those people.

    As far as sending money to the gov't to feed those people, I agree to a point. I don't have a problem with helping and employing human beings who are simply trying to better their lives either. However, I work and I pay taxes. So should they. Also, they are plenty of American citizens who need these jobs, the problem is though, do they want these jobs?

    In The Big One Moore is pleading with Phil Knight - Nike CEO - to open a plant in Flint, MI. As we all know, Nike, the Great American Company, manufactures its highly overrated crap in Asia, not the U.S. Phil Knight said he would love to have plants in the U.S., but he also stated that "Americans don't want these jobs." I get the feeling that he may be correct, but I'm not 100% sure how I feel about that statement.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I prefer to focus on the human being and not those imaginary boundaries we draw in the sand.

    I very, very, very much agree with this.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • samsonitesamsonite Posts: 210
    Paul David wrote:
    I disagree. Most of those jobs pay peanuts. Americans and Canadians don't get off the couch for peanuts when the government will supply them with free steak.

    free steak? i would guess you haven't had to support a family with government assistance/welfare.

    and what would your solution be? cut out the "government steaks" so the poor would really learn to appreciate being paid peanuts?

    like cosmo and blackredyellow said before me this is a very complex problem with no easy solution. the question i ask myself, and i think we should all ask ourselves, is how bad must it be for someone that living on our welfare system is considered the good life?!
    grace and peace
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    samsonite wrote:
    Paul David wrote:
    I disagree. Most of those jobs pay peanuts. Americans and Canadians don't get off the couch for peanuts when the government will supply them with free steak.

    free steak? i would guess you haven't had to support a family with government assistance/welfare.

    and what would your solution be? cut out the "government steaks" so the poor would really learn to appreciate being paid peanuts?

    like cosmo and blackredyellow said before me this is a very complex problem with no easy solution. the question i ask myself, and i think we should all ask ourselves, is how bad must it be for someone that living on our welfare system is considered the good life?!

    There was another thread discussing England's plans for those on welfare/unemployment. I don't know how to paste another thread into this one though.
  • usamamasan1usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    The total cost of $1.6 billion does not account for the LA County School system which is a different entitiy and they could not comment on what the school system spends on educating illegal children. This is not a trivial amount.

    there is so much tax payer abuse going on due to poor government decisions based upon mis applied notions of political correctness. Shouldn't we at least cut waste and non essential services before we even think about raising taxes?

    Here's a start...

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 1HBN3R.DTL
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Who held these jobs before the illegals?
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    aerial wrote:
    Who held these jobs before the illegals?

    A great question that I do not have an answer to.
  • aerial wrote:
    Who held these jobs before the illegals?

    children, indentured servants, etc.

    Seriously, if you're (I'm using the "you" pronoun because I'm lazy not because I think YOU are) in the same job market as an illegal immigrant you are a loser of such epic proportions that it's not funny. They don't speak the language and that's a huge negative for many people, but jesus christ, what do they do your job training in? Pantomime? You never see people with even a SEMBLANCE of talent, training, or intelligence that is complaining about losing their job to an illegal immigrant.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • samsonitesamsonite Posts: 210
    whygohome wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Who held these jobs before the illegals?

    A great question that I do not have an answer to.

    their fathers and grandfathers, they just became illegal 160 years ago when the americans moved in.
    (i know this is a crude retelling of california history but it's fairly accurate.)
    grace and peace
  • samsonitesamsonite Posts: 210
    aerial wrote:
    Who held these jobs before the illegals?

    children, indentured servants, etc.

    Seriously, if you're (I'm using the "you" pronoun because I'm lazy not because I think YOU are) in the same job market as an illegal immigrant you are a loser of such epic proportions that it's not funny. They don't speak the language and that's a huge negative for many people, but jesus christ, what do they do your job training in? Pantomime? You never see people with even a SEMBLANCE of talent, training, or intelligence that is complaining about losing their job to an illegal immigrant.

    a very eloquent and thoughtful response. :yawn:
    grace and peace
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung wrote:
    Jail CEOs of companies that hire illegals. We have 10% unemployment, the jobs WILL fill.

    Since there are no longer jobs for illegals most will self deport.
    ...
    Why just CEOs? What about the small business owner? You know, those 'Mom and Pop' operations. You don't think those small farmers are hiring illegals, too? What about those independent restaurants that hire illegals? Don't they belong in prison, too? How about the small companies that operate landscaping services, building maintenence and custodial services that are hiring illegals? Put them in jail, too... right?
    So, instead of paying for welfare and food stamps, we'll be paying for prisons.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    Who held these jobs before the illegals?

    children, indentured servants, etc.

    Seriously, if you're (I'm using the "you" pronoun because I'm lazy not because I think YOU are) in the same job market as an illegal immigrant you are a loser of such epic proportions that it's not funny. They don't speak the language and that's a huge negative for many people, but jesus christ, what do they do your job training in? Pantomime? You never see people with even a SEMBLANCE of talent, training, or intelligence that is complaining about losing their job to an illegal immigrant.
    ...
    Add... who built the railroads?
    What did 'Americans' want to do with them, once the railroads were built?
    ...
    And I agree... who fucking WANTS the job an illegal is now doing for minimum wage or less? Wouldn't the turnover rate be humongous? I mean, who wants a career as a Bus Boy? Who seeks a career in grape picking?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • usamamasan1usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    samsonite wrote:
    free steak? i would guess you haven't had to support a family with government assistance/welfare.

    and what would your solution be? cut out the "government steaks" so the poor would really learn to appreciate being paid peanuts?

    composite.jpg

    my almost two year old loves these. got to teach them young!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I believe we need to step back an take a good, long, intelligent look at the big picture and come up with a workable solution. Identify the pros and cons of illegal immigration and address each issue. Look at the social and economic impacts on the options that are presented as solutions and figure out what is best.
    I believe we should get Mexico and the other Central American countries involved and work towards a humanitarian solution... because I see these workers as people... not animals or insects. And yes... it is a difficult overall issue with complex facets involved and decisions made as solutions will have differing consequences that will create more, possibly greater problems. Not an easy task and way beyond the moronic, 'Deport Them All' proposal. For difficult problems... the simplest answer is typically the wrong answer.
    The primary problem with that, it requires compromise. And compromise isn't a part of the discussion, here in America.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
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