PJHawks... i think it was 6 people he killed and not 9. unless 3 have died in hospital afterwards, but i think it's definitely 6?
anyway, weirdly enough i am ok with the death penalty in clear cut cases such as this... its when it has been found to be used for cases that are dubious I worry about...
unfortunately I believe we are too soft on criminals in today's society... There should be a true fear of going to prison... for any crime.
amen!
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It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.
My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.
I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.
Just out of curiosity, did you have this ethos before your family member was murdered, or did you convert after the fact? Also what was your reaction when they first found the murderer, like how does one react to news like that? Sorry to hear about this.
On the use of the death penalty? Or do you believe he is too mentally unstable for a standard guilty verdict?
No...like Godfather said, it saves time and money.
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he should have been executed in the parking lot right then and there. fucking coward. kills innocent people including a 9 year old girl. i wouldn't have held him down in that parking lot i would bashed his skull into the pavement. and i'm not a violent guy, but what did calls for it. why should he be allowed to live while 9 families have to deal with funerals.
It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.
My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.
First of all, I'm really sory for your lost.
But ask yourself: is there ANYTHING that could happen or that someone could do to make what happened with your cousin even/easier/vanish? Will anything make that crime less painfull or sad or horrendous? Can anything chance the past?
No...
We can only hope to transform the future.
Acting in revenge is no more than spreading the seed of another future revenge.
I agree with you, life is too precious... we have to mind our words.
It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.
My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.
I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.
Well - not sure what to say to that but to each there own I guess but I totally disagree. To know that my cousin got raped, beaten alive then tied up and thrown into a quarry to drown to her death - I'm sorry but that should happen to that person as well no ifs ands or buts about it.
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It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.
My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.
First of all, I'm really sory for your lost.
But ask yourself: is there ANYTHING that could happen or that someone could do to make what happened with your cousin even/easier/vanish? Will anything make that crime less painfull or sad or horrendous? Can anything chance the past?
No...
We can only hope to transform the future.
Acting in revenge is no more than spreading the seed of another future revenge.
I agree with you, life is too precious... we have to mind our words.
d.
Like I wrote already I disagree with this line of thinking but knowing that guy is still alive makes me uncomfortable and if he died it would be a wierd sense of closure - knowing he got what he deserved.
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It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.
My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.
I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.
Just out of curiosity, did you have this ethos before your family member was murdered, or did you convert after the fact? Also what was your reaction when they first found the murderer, like how does one react to news like that? Sorry to hear about this.
Good questions - I suppose I would have been for the death penalty before, like I understand the arguments that people make for it, however my personal view is that it's wrong - perhaps that's just me wanting to still have a symbol to blame everything there after that goes wrong in my life, I really can't say.
My intial reaction was holy fuck - as he was known to the family, after that I just cycled through all the emotions, and yeah I went through the "kill him slow" stuff too.
I abondened religion shortly after to be honest, so the idea of him burning in an everlasting fire didn't wash with me. I thnk that the only punisihing this guy will get is knowing that life has moved on without him, and has for the most part, forgotten him. The thought that those that do know him do so with a sense of shame also builds into my theory that no-one wants to ever by truley forgotten, because to be forgotten means you ceased to ever exist. I'm rambling now, but I think you get the jist.
It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.
My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.
I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.
Just out of curiosity, did you have this ethos before your family member was murdered, or did you convert after the fact? Also what was your reaction when they first found the murderer, like how does one react to news like that? Sorry to hear about this.
Truthfully - up until that point I never thought about it. I was a sophmore in high school and I wasn't thinking about stuff like this back then I was 15-16 years old. She was my age - same school it's wierd to think about and look back on. It's something that most teenagers don't think about nor should they - there kids.
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death is final,no more killing no more anything so I don't think it's an ez way out,it's last resort and a final solution for premeditated murder.
Godfather.
It is an easy way out. You haven't ever heard some prisoners claim that they would rather die than deal with life terms? Why do you think prisoners try to kill themselves? They can deal with death rather than deal with prison. i don't condone that killing is the answer. But giving this guy life in prison, along with therapy and rehabilitation, so he has plenty of time to think and deal with what he's done, face the music, that's what he needs. Not an easy way out.
i think the easy way out is to say you are against the death penalty in all cases. i don't understand that. not all cases are the same and should be treated differently. too many people try to make too many issues purely black and white, when many issues have shades of gray. i don't think there is any sense is saying unequivocally 100% that all cases should be handled in the same manner. again i'm not a zealot who thinks we should kill or give the death penalty in all cases, or many cases for that matter, but in this case absolutely 100% this guy shouldn't see february 2011 in my mind.
i think the easy way out is to say you are against the death penalty in all cases. i don't understand that. not all cases are the same and should be treated differently. too many people try to make too many issues purely black and white, when many issues have shades of gray. i don't think there is any sense is saying unequivocally 100% that all cases should be handled in the same manner. again i'm not a zealot who thinks we should kill or give the death penalty in all cases, or many cases for that matter, but in this case absolutely 100% this guy shouldn't see february 2011 in my mind.
I don't think there was anything easy about me forming my opinion on the death penalty - It is my opinion, which I put together based on my own experiences within live, I was asked me opinion so I gave it. I don't believe your's is wrong, as it is based on your experiences in life.
To say it's the easy way out is a little insulting, I disagree with you, doesn't make my opinion any less valid, nor your's for that matter
i think the easy way out is to say you are against the death penalty in all cases. i don't understand that. not all cases are the same and should be treated differently. too many people try to make too many issues purely black and white, when many issues have shades of gray. i don't think there is any sense is saying unequivocally 100% that all cases should be handled in the same manner. again i'm not a zealot who thinks we should kill or give the death penalty in all cases, or many cases for that matter, but in this case absolutely 100% this guy shouldn't see february 2011 in my mind.
you're right in that not all cases are the same but the reason why i say no to the death penalty is simply because in the society i want to live in - we don't try and solve problems by using violence ... it is simply not the kind of world i hope for ... it is why i am anti-war ...
i don't think anyone is saying all cases should be handled the same way - simply that killing someone is just not on the table in any instance ... for the same reasons why i don't think violence should be on the table to settle disputes ...
i think the easy way out is to say you are against the death penalty in all cases. i don't understand that. not all cases are the same and should be treated differently. too many people try to make too many issues purely black and white, when many issues have shades of gray. i don't think there is any sense is saying unequivocally 100% that all cases should be handled in the same manner. again i'm not a zealot who thinks we should kill or give the death penalty in all cases, or many cases for that matter, but in this case absolutely 100% this guy shouldn't see february 2011 in my mind.
Death is an all or none issue, you cannot be half for life and half for death. Law has to be consistent that's what your missing. The jury is the one that has the ultimate decision. Also why would you kill this guy and not other people who kill others, what distinguishes the difference in opinion?
death is final,no more killing no more anything so I don't think it's an ez way out,it's last resort and a final solution for premeditated murder.
Godfather.
It is an easy way out. You haven't ever heard some prisoners claim that they would rather die than deal with life terms? Why do you think prisoners try to kill themselves? They can deal with death rather than deal with prison. i don't condone that killing is the answer. But giving this guy life in prison, along with therapy and rehabilitation, so he has plenty of time to think and deal with what he's done, face the music, that's what he needs. Not an easy way out.
But if convicted killers get life imprisonment instead of death, is that letting them off easy?
Not a chance, says 52-year-old Gordon "Randy" Steidl. He lived on death row and then in the general prison population, after his sentence was commuted to life. He preferred his former accommodations.
Steidl was released in 2004 after being exonerated of the 1986 stabbing deaths of a newlywed couple in Paris, Ill. He had an alibi for the night of the murders, corroborated by others. But he was convicted on eyewitness testimony provided by the town drunk and the town drug addict. Both later recanted.
The state of Illinois spent $3.5 million trying to execute him, "only to end up giving me a life sentence," Steidl said. "And then 5 1/2 years after that, I was exonerated."
He spent 12 years in a tiny cell on death row. Then he was thrown into "gen pop," with its snarling mass of an open cellblock, where the prospect of being stabbed, raped or worse loomed constantly, alongside deafening noise and psychotic cell mates.
"If you really want to kill someone, give them life without parole," Steidl said in an even voice. He speaks of his troubled past as if it was trapped under glass or locked behind bars — visible but no longer able to torture him. "It's worse than dying."
death is final,no more killing no more anything so I don't think it's an ez way out,it's last resort and a final solution for premeditated murder.
Godfather.
It is an easy way out. You haven't ever heard some prisoners claim that they would rather die than deal with life terms? Why do you think prisoners try to kill themselves? They can deal with death rather than deal with prison. i don't condone that killing is the answer. But giving this guy life in prison, along with therapy and rehabilitation, so he has plenty of time to think and deal with what he's done, face the music, that's what he needs. Not an easy way out.
But on the flip side - many felons grow to tolerate prison life, and some even prefer it.
Why use all these resources - cost of keeping someone alive in prison, therapy, rehabilitation - on a murderer when there are just causes 1000000x over that could use it?
A lot of criticisms on the death penalty say that it is being used as a form of revenge. You mentioned "facing the music", as in making the person deal with their feelings & actions, but isn't that just a form of mental revenge?
Couldn't just simply putting a bullet through his head be viewed as a form of indifference, and not necessarily revenge?
But on the flip side - many felons grow to tolerate prison life, and some even prefer it.
Why use all these resources - cost of keeping someone alive in prison, therapy, rehabilitation - on a murderer when there are just causes 1000000x over that could use it?
Good point. That does happen. I have a feeling though that the AZ shooter is not going to have an easy time in prison! He killed a 9 yr old, that wont sit well with Bubba.
Also, Death sentences are more costly than life in prison. (Costs of court, appeals, etc..)
It is an easy way out. You haven't ever heard some prisoners claim that they would rather die than deal with life terms? Why do you think prisoners try to kill themselves? They can deal with death rather than deal with prison. i don't condone that killing is the answer. But giving this guy life in prison, along with therapy and rehabilitation, so he has plenty of time to think and deal with what he's done, face the music, that's what he needs. Not an easy way out.[/quote]
But if convicted killers get life imprisonment instead of death, is that letting them off easy?
Not a chance, says 52-year-old Gordon "Randy" Steidl. He lived on death row and then in the general prison population, after his sentence was commuted to life. He preferred his former accommodations.
Steidl was released in 2004 after being exonerated of the 1986 stabbing deaths of a newlywed couple in Paris, Ill. He had an alibi for the night of the murders, corroborated by others. But he was convicted on eyewitness testimony provided by the town drunk and the town drug addict. Both later recanted.
The state of Illinois spent $3.5 million trying to execute him, "only to end up giving me a life sentence," Steidl said. "And then 5 1/2 years after that, I was exonerated."
He spent 12 years in a tiny cell on death row. Then he was thrown into "gen pop," with its snarling mass of an open cellblock, where the prospect of being stabbed, raped or worse loomed constantly, alongside deafening noise and psychotic cell mates.
"If you really want to kill someone, give them life without parole," Steidl said in an even voice. He speaks of his troubled past as if it was trapped under glass or locked behind bars — visible but no longer able to torture him. "It's worse than dying."[/quote]
This case that you're pointing out is a very rare one. How does Randy know what's worse than death? Did he die and come back again like Jesus? I love it when people say stuff like this. When there is no doubt who committed murder such as in this Arizona shooting why should we pay for his 3 meals a day and lawyers etc.. when we have thousands of people without food and homes. If this guy goes to jail for life it's going to cost the American Tax paying public thousands of dollars for the rest of his life. Where he'll be able to read a book or even get an education on our dime - no way! There is no forgiving those who murder especially in a case like this.
Again, I ask - if that 9yr. old girl was your daughter would you want this man to breathe the same air you do? Would you want him to wake up everyday and be able to walk and eat? Don't look at this as a conservative or a liberal - look at this for what it is - which is murder. Randy's situation is a rare one that sounds like that had a lot of gray to it - this is the opposite - black and white so lumping this into the same category is not even remotely right. Sucks what happenned to Randy but he's free now based on the mere fact he didn't do it and this guy in Arizona did and must pay the ultimate price. Those people who he killed didn't have a choice so this guy shouldn't either.
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Nothing changes my mind. Revenge killing is wrong and serves no good purpose. End of story.
so you would have a problem if somone at the scene of the crime killed this murderer? or is there a time frame after a crime is committed that we are not allowed to kill them? if so what is it, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 2 days, 2 months? would it have been wrong if i had been there tackled the guy and bashed his head into the pavement until he was dead or if a law enforcement agent/security killed him?
Nothing changes my mind. Revenge killing is wrong and serves no good purpose. End of story.
Agree to disagree - that's the end of the story. We all have our opinions - you have yours and I have mine and everyone else has there's. Those people who got murderd had there's and it got taken away - we should consider ourselves lucky.
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i think the easy way out is to say you are against the death penalty in all cases. i don't understand that. not all cases are the same and should be treated differently. too many people try to make too many issues purely black and white, when many issues have shades of gray. i don't think there is any sense is saying unequivocally 100% that all cases should be handled in the same manner.
I'm not saying (and I'm the one who first said here that I am against the death penalty in all cases) that all cases should be handled in the same manner. But I am saying that nothing gives anybody the right to kill another person - even if that person did kill someone. I am saying that the death penalty is not intelligent, rational justice, it is blind, irrational vengeance, and a civilised society must be better than stooping to such levels. I am saying the death penalty is arbitrarily and dicriminatorily applied, capricious, more expensive for taxpayers than life in prison, prone to gross errors and irreversible. A single one of those reasons should be enough to justify its abolition. Together, they make to me a case against execution in all circumstances, that is far from being simply a matter of an easy way out. It's far easier to act on vengeance than it is to hold your rage in check and see true justice done. That's far harder. But far more just.
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Nothing changes my mind. Revenge killing is wrong and serves no good purpose. End of story.
so you would have a problem if somone at the scene of the crime killed this murderer? or is there a time frame after a crime is committed that we are not allowed to kill them? if so what is it, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 2 days, 2 months? would it have been wrong if i had been there tackled the guy and bashed his head into the pavement until he was dead or if a law enforcement agent/security killed him?
This may come across as hypocritical, but I think there's a distinction between self defense and the death penalty.
That being said, if the guy was down and immobilized, I would have a BIG problem with the person who tackled him doing further harm than necessary.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Nothing changes my mind. Revenge killing is wrong and serves no good purpose. End of story.
Agree to disagree - that's the end of the story. We all have our opinions - you have yours and I have mine and everyone else has there's. Those people who got murderd had there's and it got taken away - we should consider ourselves lucky.
It could be the end of the story, but I'm curious as to your answer of what good purpose revenge killing serves. Does it make the victims families feel better? (If so, then shame on them)
Does it save the government money? (I know it doesn't)
Does it protect the public? (If he's locked away securely, the public is in little danger)
I'd really like to know.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Nothing changes my mind. Revenge killing is wrong and serves no good purpose. End of story.
Agree to disagree - that's the end of the story. We all have our opinions - you have yours and I have mine and everyone else has there's. Those people who got murderd had there's and it got taken away - we should consider ourselves lucky.
It could be the end of the story, but I'm curious as to your answer of what good purpose revenge killing serves. Does it make the victims families feel better? (If so, then shame on them)
Does it save the government money? (I know it doesn't)
Does it protect the public? (If he's locked away securely, the public is in little danger)
I'd really like to know.
simple, it rids the earth of an evil person. each evil person no longer of this earth gets us closer to your utopian society of no violence and no wars.
Again, I ask - if that 9yr. old girl was your daughter would you want this man to breathe the same air you do? Would you want him to wake up everyday and be able to walk and eat? Don't look at this as a conservative or a liberal - look at this for what it is - which is murder. Randy's situation is a rare one that sounds like that had a lot of gray to it - this is the opposite - black and white so lumping this into the same category is not even remotely right. Sucks what happenned to Randy but he's free now based on the mere fact he didn't do it and this guy in Arizona did and must pay the ultimate price. Those people who he killed didn't have a choice so this guy shouldn't either.
I've said this earlier - the rage is understandable. Succumbing to it and sinking to the level of a killer yourself is not.
You are saying that it was wrong for Loughner to take away the lives of other people, right? That's what we are all saying. That is the one thing I'm sure everyone here agrees on.
How then can it be right for us to do the same to him?
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Nothing changes my mind. Revenge killing is wrong and serves no good purpose. End of story.
Agree to disagree - that's the end of the story. We all have our opinions - you have yours and I have mine and everyone else has there's. Those people who got murderd had there's and it got taken away - we should consider ourselves lucky.
It could be the end of the story, but I'm curious as to your answer of what good purpose revenge killing serves. Does it make the victims families feel better? (If so, then shame on them)
Does it save the government money? (I know it doesn't)
Does it protect the public? (If he's locked away securely, the public is in little danger)
I'd really like to know.
I don't agree with you just accept that and stop badgering me with your beliefs. I'm trying to be civil here. With that said - I had a cousin who was murdered and the guy is still alive in jail eating 3 meals a day that we pay for. Who's to say 30 years from now they give the guy parole for good behavior or something or he escapes. You know what - then shame on me - he killed a family member of mine and I'd like to see him dead as well. It's costing me money to keep this guy alive atop of all of it as opposed to that same money helping out hungry unemployed families. Like I said you have your opinion and I have mine - so let it go! Shame on me for wanting cold blooded murders to have done to them what they have done to others. You take a life, then theirs should be taken as well - good day!
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simple, it rids the earth of an evil person. each evil person no longer of this earth gets us closer to your utopian society of no violence and no wars.
I don't think that is really an acceptable answer. Besides, "evil" is HIGHLY subjective. And that person will be gone from the planet in time so it still serves no good purpose.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Comments
amen!
Oh Dude!
Just out of curiosity, did you have this ethos before your family member was murdered, or did you convert after the fact? Also what was your reaction when they first found the murderer, like how does one react to news like that? Sorry to hear about this.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
This!
First of all, I'm really sory for your lost.
But ask yourself: is there ANYTHING that could happen or that someone could do to make what happened with your cousin even/easier/vanish? Will anything make that crime less painfull or sad or horrendous? Can anything chance the past?
No...
We can only hope to transform the future.
Acting in revenge is no more than spreading the seed of another future revenge.
I agree with you, life is too precious... we have to mind our words.
d.
Well - not sure what to say to that but to each there own I guess but I totally disagree. To know that my cousin got raped, beaten alive then tied up and thrown into a quarry to drown to her death - I'm sorry but that should happen to that person as well no ifs ands or buts about it.
Oh Dude!
Like I wrote already I disagree with this line of thinking but knowing that guy is still alive makes me uncomfortable and if he died it would be a wierd sense of closure - knowing he got what he deserved.
Oh Dude!
Good questions - I suppose I would have been for the death penalty before, like I understand the arguments that people make for it, however my personal view is that it's wrong - perhaps that's just me wanting to still have a symbol to blame everything there after that goes wrong in my life, I really can't say.
My intial reaction was holy fuck - as he was known to the family, after that I just cycled through all the emotions, and yeah I went through the "kill him slow" stuff too.
I abondened religion shortly after to be honest, so the idea of him burning in an everlasting fire didn't wash with me. I thnk that the only punisihing this guy will get is knowing that life has moved on without him, and has for the most part, forgotten him. The thought that those that do know him do so with a sense of shame also builds into my theory that no-one wants to ever by truley forgotten, because to be forgotten means you ceased to ever exist. I'm rambling now, but I think you get the jist.
thanks
Truthfully - up until that point I never thought about it. I was a sophmore in high school and I wasn't thinking about stuff like this back then I was 15-16 years old. She was my age - same school it's wierd to think about and look back on. It's something that most teenagers don't think about nor should they - there kids.
Oh Dude!
It is an easy way out. You haven't ever heard some prisoners claim that they would rather die than deal with life terms? Why do you think prisoners try to kill themselves? They can deal with death rather than deal with prison. i don't condone that killing is the answer. But giving this guy life in prison, along with therapy and rehabilitation, so he has plenty of time to think and deal with what he's done, face the music, that's what he needs. Not an easy way out.
I don't think there was anything easy about me forming my opinion on the death penalty - It is my opinion, which I put together based on my own experiences within live, I was asked me opinion so I gave it. I don't believe your's is wrong, as it is based on your experiences in life.
To say it's the easy way out is a little insulting, I disagree with you, doesn't make my opinion any less valid, nor your's for that matter
you're right in that not all cases are the same but the reason why i say no to the death penalty is simply because in the society i want to live in - we don't try and solve problems by using violence ... it is simply not the kind of world i hope for ... it is why i am anti-war ...
i don't think anyone is saying all cases should be handled the same way - simply that killing someone is just not on the table in any instance ... for the same reasons why i don't think violence should be on the table to settle disputes ...
Death is an all or none issue, you cannot be half for life and half for death. Law has to be consistent that's what your missing. The jury is the one that has the ultimate decision. Also why would you kill this guy and not other people who kill others, what distinguishes the difference in opinion?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/
But if convicted killers get life imprisonment instead of death, is that letting them off easy?
Not a chance, says 52-year-old Gordon "Randy" Steidl. He lived on death row and then in the general prison population, after his sentence was commuted to life. He preferred his former accommodations.
Steidl was released in 2004 after being exonerated of the 1986 stabbing deaths of a newlywed couple in Paris, Ill. He had an alibi for the night of the murders, corroborated by others. But he was convicted on eyewitness testimony provided by the town drunk and the town drug addict. Both later recanted.
The state of Illinois spent $3.5 million trying to execute him, "only to end up giving me a life sentence," Steidl said. "And then 5 1/2 years after that, I was exonerated."
He spent 12 years in a tiny cell on death row. Then he was thrown into "gen pop," with its snarling mass of an open cellblock, where the prospect of being stabbed, raped or worse loomed constantly, alongside deafening noise and psychotic cell mates.
"If you really want to kill someone, give them life without parole," Steidl said in an even voice. He speaks of his troubled past as if it was trapped under glass or locked behind bars — visible but no longer able to torture him.
"It's worse than dying."
But on the flip side - many felons grow to tolerate prison life, and some even prefer it.
Why use all these resources - cost of keeping someone alive in prison, therapy, rehabilitation - on a murderer when there are just causes 1000000x over that could use it?
A lot of criticisms on the death penalty say that it is being used as a form of revenge. You mentioned "facing the music", as in making the person deal with their feelings & actions, but isn't that just a form of mental revenge?
Couldn't just simply putting a bullet through his head be viewed as a form of indifference, and not necessarily revenge?
Good point. That does happen. I have a feeling though that the AZ shooter is not going to have an easy time in prison! He killed a 9 yr old, that wont sit well with Bubba.
Also, Death sentences are more costly than life in prison. (Costs of court, appeals, etc..)
Didn't know that. That is a problem in itself then.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/
But if convicted killers get life imprisonment instead of death, is that letting them off easy?
Not a chance, says 52-year-old Gordon "Randy" Steidl. He lived on death row and then in the general prison population, after his sentence was commuted to life. He preferred his former accommodations.
Steidl was released in 2004 after being exonerated of the 1986 stabbing deaths of a newlywed couple in Paris, Ill. He had an alibi for the night of the murders, corroborated by others. But he was convicted on eyewitness testimony provided by the town drunk and the town drug addict. Both later recanted.
The state of Illinois spent $3.5 million trying to execute him, "only to end up giving me a life sentence," Steidl said. "And then 5 1/2 years after that, I was exonerated."
He spent 12 years in a tiny cell on death row. Then he was thrown into "gen pop," with its snarling mass of an open cellblock, where the prospect of being stabbed, raped or worse loomed constantly, alongside deafening noise and psychotic cell mates.
"If you really want to kill someone, give them life without parole," Steidl said in an even voice. He speaks of his troubled past as if it was trapped under glass or locked behind bars — visible but no longer able to torture him.
"It's worse than dying."[/quote]
This case that you're pointing out is a very rare one. How does Randy know what's worse than death? Did he die and come back again like Jesus? I love it when people say stuff like this. When there is no doubt who committed murder such as in this Arizona shooting why should we pay for his 3 meals a day and lawyers etc.. when we have thousands of people without food and homes. If this guy goes to jail for life it's going to cost the American Tax paying public thousands of dollars for the rest of his life. Where he'll be able to read a book or even get an education on our dime - no way! There is no forgiving those who murder especially in a case like this.
Again, I ask - if that 9yr. old girl was your daughter would you want this man to breathe the same air you do? Would you want him to wake up everyday and be able to walk and eat? Don't look at this as a conservative or a liberal - look at this for what it is - which is murder. Randy's situation is a rare one that sounds like that had a lot of gray to it - this is the opposite - black and white so lumping this into the same category is not even remotely right. Sucks what happenned to Randy but he's free now based on the mere fact he didn't do it and this guy in Arizona did and must pay the ultimate price. Those people who he killed didn't have a choice so this guy shouldn't either.
Oh Dude!
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
so you would have a problem if somone at the scene of the crime killed this murderer? or is there a time frame after a crime is committed that we are not allowed to kill them? if so what is it, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 2 days, 2 months? would it have been wrong if i had been there tackled the guy and bashed his head into the pavement until he was dead or if a law enforcement agent/security killed him?
Agree to disagree - that's the end of the story. We all have our opinions - you have yours and I have mine and everyone else has there's. Those people who got murderd had there's and it got taken away - we should consider ourselves lucky.
Oh Dude!
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
This may come across as hypocritical, but I think there's a distinction between self defense and the death penalty.
That being said, if the guy was down and immobilized, I would have a BIG problem with the person who tackled him doing further harm than necessary.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It could be the end of the story, but I'm curious as to your answer of what good purpose revenge killing serves. Does it make the victims families feel better? (If so, then shame on them)
Does it save the government money? (I know it doesn't)
Does it protect the public? (If he's locked away securely, the public is in little danger)
I'd really like to know.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
simple, it rids the earth of an evil person. each evil person no longer of this earth gets us closer to your utopian society of no violence and no wars.
I've said this earlier - the rage is understandable. Succumbing to it and sinking to the level of a killer yourself is not.
You are saying that it was wrong for Loughner to take away the lives of other people, right? That's what we are all saying. That is the one thing I'm sure everyone here agrees on.
How then can it be right for us to do the same to him?
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
I don't agree with you just accept that and stop badgering me with your beliefs. I'm trying to be civil here. With that said - I had a cousin who was murdered and the guy is still alive in jail eating 3 meals a day that we pay for. Who's to say 30 years from now they give the guy parole for good behavior or something or he escapes. You know what - then shame on me - he killed a family member of mine and I'd like to see him dead as well. It's costing me money to keep this guy alive atop of all of it as opposed to that same money helping out hungry unemployed families. Like I said you have your opinion and I have mine - so let it go! Shame on me for wanting cold blooded murders to have done to them what they have done to others. You take a life, then theirs should be taken as well - good day!
Oh Dude!
I don't think that is really an acceptable answer. Besides, "evil" is HIGHLY subjective. And that person will be gone from the planet in time so it still serves no good purpose.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.