Does the Arizona killer change your mind...

polaris_x

the death penalty serves only one purpose ... and that is to cure the insatiable appetite for some form of justice or revenge ...

the death penalty does not deter violent crime period.

the reality is that americans and society as a whole has to wonder why so many grievances are solved by use of the gun and weapons ... why is it that as a supposed civil society - we always seem to resort to violence to solve our differences?

Godfather.

pjhawks wrote:

he should have been executed in the parking lot right then and there. fucking coward. kills innocent people including a 9 year old girl. i wouldn't have held him down in that parking lot i would bashed his skull into the pavement. and i'm not a violent guy, but what did calls for it. why should he be allowed to live while 9 families have to deal with funerals.

:thumbup:

Godfather.

Godfather.

Jeanwah wrote:

The death penalty is an easy way out.

death is final,no more killing no more anything so I don't think it's an ez way out,it's last resort and a final solution for premeditated murder.

Godfather.

cendh

polaris_x wrote:

the death penalty serves only one purpose ... and that is to cure the insatiable appetite for some form of justice or revenge ...

the death penalty does not deter violent crime period.

the reality is that americans and society as a whole has to wonder why so many grievances are solved by use of the gun and weapons ... why is it that as a supposed civil society - we always seem to resort to violence to solve our differences?

Yes, I'm not from North America, but I agree. As I see it, the state and government people should be examples on how to act, for society; not only "big borthers" that are allowed (because of the complete control of legal force means) to punish (or kill) fellow citicens, because they can.

And in the bottom of the issue, peace is the only real answer. It's noxious and ridiculous to think we can achieve peace by killing. Prision should be there to rehabilitate, not to punish and make people suffer; it should be there to make the ones that did something wrong understand WHY the most of other people think that it was wrong,HOW to mend their mistakes, and hopefully and one day, in WHICH direction they shuold re-insert in society.

d.

pjhawks

dunkman wrote:

PJHawks... i think it was 6 people he killed and not 9. unless 3 have died in hospital afterwards, but i think it's definitely 6?

anyway, weirdly enough i am ok with the death penalty in clear cut cases such as this... its when it has been found to be used for cases that are dubious I worry about...

unfortunately I believe we are too soft on criminals in today's society... There should be a true fear of going to prison... for any crime.

yes sorry 6 not 9, i have the number 9 on the brain because of the 9 year old girl. sorry when i think about this story i see her face and yes i want revenge for that. and it's not about deterring others, it is about revenge in this case.

wolfamongwolves

pjhawks wrote:

dunkman wrote:

PJHawks... i think it was 6 people he killed and not 9. unless 3 have died in hospital afterwards, but i think it's definitely 6?

anyway, weirdly enough i am ok with the death penalty in clear cut cases such as this... its when it has been found to be used for cases that are dubious I worry about...

unfortunately I believe we are too soft on criminals in today's society... There should be a true fear of going to prison... for any crime.

yes sorry 6 not 9, i have the number 9 on the brain because of the 9 year old girl. sorry when i think about this story i see her face and yes i want revenge for that. and it's not about deterring others, it is about revenge in this case.

I can understand the anger in a situation like this, and the gut reaction to want revenge. But no society can call itself civilised that can't control such animalistic urges, that can't hold it's temper in check to ensure that true justice is applied.

Revenge and justice can never be compatible, whatever the movies might have you believe.

Clearly, it makes it easier for you to advocate killing another human being if you reduce him to being "scum". But , whatever your opinion, whatever he did, however horrendous and unconscionable,the reality is he is a mentally ill human being. Easy to kill scum, not so easy to kill a person with a mental illness.


And, even in the US, the only western democracy to not have abolished this arcane and fundamentally unjust punishment, executing a mentally ill person is illegal and unconstitutional (even though there are a vast amount of cases where it's been done anyway).

polaris_x

it is likely revenge or grievance that drove this shooter to kill all those people ... it's the same emotion people have when they then in turn want to kill the shooter ...

violence begets violence ...

i understand it - i just don't believe in it ...

DL136722

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

jg1988

If i was a family member, I have to admit that I would definitely want to see this guy die. Of course this would do nothing as far as taking away the pain, however the satisfaction of knowing that justice (which is what I believe the death penalty is) has been served. As far as being a deterrent i do NOT think the death penalty works. Whatever happens to this guy it will not bring back the 6 people killed, so who really cares if he is killed or just imprisoned for life?

Moonpig

DL136722 wrote:

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.

DL136722

dunkman wrote:

PJHawks... i think it was 6 people he killed and not 9. unless 3 have died in hospital afterwards, but i think it's definitely 6?

anyway, weirdly enough i am ok with the death penalty in clear cut cases such as this... its when it has been found to be used for cases that are dubious I worry about...

unfortunately I believe we are too soft on criminals in today's society... There should be a true fear of going to prison... for any crime.

amen!

jg1988

Moonpig wrote:

DL136722 wrote:

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.

Just out of curiosity, did you have this ethos before your family member was murdered, or did you convert after the fact? Also what was your reaction when they first found the murderer, like how does one react to news like that? Sorry to hear about this.

Newch91

unsung wrote:

On the use of the death penalty? Or do you believe he is too mentally unstable for a standard guilty verdict?

No...like Godfather said, it saves time and money.

BinauralJam

pjhawks wrote:

he should have been executed in the parking lot right then and there. fucking coward. kills innocent people including a 9 year old girl. i wouldn't have held him down in that parking lot i would bashed his skull into the pavement. and i'm not a violent guy, but what did calls for it. why should he be allowed to live while 9 families have to deal with funerals.

This!

cendh

DL136722 wrote:

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

First of all, I'm really sory for your lost.
But ask yourself: is there ANYTHING that could happen or that someone could do to make what happened with your cousin even/easier/vanish? Will anything make that crime less painfull or sad or horrendous? Can anything chance the past?

No...

We can only hope to transform the future.
Acting in revenge is no more than spreading the seed of another future revenge.

I agree with you, life is too precious... we have to mind our words.

d.

DL136722

Moonpig wrote:

DL136722 wrote:

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.

Well - not sure what to say to that but to each there own I guess but I totally disagree. To know that my cousin got raped, beaten alive then tied up and thrown into a quarry to drown to her death - I'm sorry but that should happen to that person as well no ifs ands or buts about it.

DL136722

cendh wrote:

DL136722 wrote:

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

First of all, I'm really sory for your lost.
But ask yourself: is there ANYTHING that could happen or that someone could do to make what happened with your cousin even/easier/vanish? Will anything make that crime less painfull or sad or horrendous? Can anything chance the past?

No...

We can only hope to transform the future.
Acting in revenge is no more than spreading the seed of another future revenge.

I agree with you, life is too precious... we have to mind our words.

d.

Like I wrote already I disagree with this line of thinking but knowing that guy is still alive makes me uncomfortable and if he died it would be a wierd sense of closure - knowing he got what he deserved.

Moonpig

jg1988 wrote:

Moonpig wrote:

DL136722 wrote:

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.

Just out of curiosity, did you have this ethos before your family member was murdered, or did you convert after the fact? Also what was your reaction when they first found the murderer, like how does one react to news like that? Sorry to hear about this.

Good questions - I suppose I would have been for the death penalty before, like I understand the arguments that people make for it, however my personal view is that it's wrong - perhaps that's just me wanting to still have a symbol to blame everything there after that goes wrong in my life, I really can't say.

My intial reaction was holy fuck - as he was known to the family, after that I just cycled through all the emotions, and yeah I went through the "kill him slow" stuff too.

I abondened religion shortly after to be honest, so the idea of him burning in an everlasting fire didn't wash with me. I thnk that the only punisihing this guy will get is knowing that life has moved on without him, and has for the most part, forgotten him. The thought that those that do know him do so with a sense of shame also builds into my theory that no-one wants to ever by truley forgotten, because to be forgotten means you ceased to ever exist. I'm rambling now, but I think you get the jist.

thanks

DL136722

jg1988 wrote:

Moonpig wrote:

DL136722 wrote:

It doesn't change my mind and I'm for the death penalty. Put it this way, what if this guy killed your daughter or son? Put it on a personal level - it's easy to say no death penalty from distance put if you ask the family that lost the 9yr. that got killed it would be interesting to hear the responses then.

My personal thought is that life is too precious and to take that from someone - I'm sorry but there is no forgiving that. You don't get to go to prison for the rest of your days breathing the same air and eating food that we pay for. I had a cousin that got murdered back in 1995 and that guy is still alive in jail - truth be told he should have died that day as well.

I have a family member who was brutally assualted and then shot, murdered. The person that did it is in prison, I still believe that the death penalty is wrong.

Just out of curiosity, did you have this ethos before your family member was murdered, or did you convert after the fact? Also what was your reaction when they first found the murderer, like how does one react to news like that? Sorry to hear about this.

Truthfully - up until that point I never thought about it. I was a sophmore in high school and I wasn't thinking about stuff like this back then I was 15-16 years old. She was my age - same school it's wierd to think about and look back on. It's something that most teenagers don't think about nor should they - there kids.

Jeanwah

Godfather. wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

The death penalty is an easy way out.

death is final,no more killing no more anything so I don't think it's an ez way out,it's last resort and a final solution for premeditated murder.

Godfather.

It is an easy way out. You haven't ever heard some prisoners claim that they would rather die than deal with life terms? Why do you think prisoners try to kill themselves? They can deal with death rather than deal with prison. i don't condone that killing is the answer. But giving this guy life in prison, along with therapy and rehabilitation, so he has plenty of time to think and deal with what he's done, face the music, that's what he needs. Not an easy way out.