Former EU Heads Call For Palestinian State
Byrnzie
Posts: 21,037
This looks promising:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... nce-israel
Israel faces tougher line from EU after former heads call for Palestinian state
Former EU leaders sign letter urging creation of state with East Jerusalem as capital and settlement freeze
* Chris McGreal in Washington and Harriet Sherwood
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 10 December 2010
Twenty-six European grandees have urged the EU to adopt a tougher stance towards Israel including taking "concrete measures" and exacting "consequences" over continued settlement building on occupied land, which they say is illegal under international law.
The former EU leaders said that in the face of "the ongoing deterioration of the situation on the ground", the EU, in co-operation with other international bodies, should put forward a "concrete and comprehensive proposal for the resolution of this conflict". A deadline of April 2011 for progress in peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians should be set, after which the international community should intervene.
"Time to secure a sustainable peace is fast running out," said the group, which includes former EU commissioner Chris Patten, former EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, former Irish president Mary Robinson and another nine former heads of state. It sent a letter to EU president Herman van Rompuy, foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and all EU heads of government before a meeting of foreign ministers on Monday, saying: "It is clear that without a rapid and dramatic move … a two-state solution, which forms the one and only available option for a peaceful resolution of this conflict, will be increasingly difficult to attain."
The letter says the group had received "signals" from US officials that the best way to help American efforts to reach a peace deal was to put a "price tag" on policies that contradict those advocated by Barack Obama.
The group calls on the EU to:
• Put forward a plan to resolve the conflict, including a clear time frame, together with the US, UN, Russia, and Arab League.
• Reiterate its position that it will not recognise any changes to the June 1967 boundaries [of Israel], that a Palestinian state should be "territory equivalent to 100% of the territory occupied in 1967", and that its capital should be East Jerusalem.
• Refuse to upgrade ties with Israel unless settlements are frozen. "The EU has always maintained that settlements are illegal, but has not attached any consequences for continued and systematic settlement expansion."
• Bring an end to the import of settlement products "which are, in contradiction with EU labelling recommendations, marketed as originating in Israel".
• Send a high-level delegation, including Lady Ashton, to East Jerusalem "as a matter of urgency to draw attention to the erosion of the Palestinian presence there, and report back to the EU with an agenda of proposals to arrest and reverse the deterioration of the situation on the ground". The situation in East Jerusalem, it says, is the "most critical flashpoint and greatest threat" to a peace deal.
The letter praises "impressive progress in the … development of the infrastructure of a Palestinian state", in which the EU has invested billions of euros.
The signatories to the letter all held office within the past decade, when there have been repeated attempts to broker a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians.
Ashton replied to the letter, which refers in detail to EU policy on the Middle East agreed a year ago, saying "the implementation of the [EU's earlier] conclusions is proceeding on several fronts", according to the EUobserver website.
Ygal Palmor, spokesman for the Israeli foreign ministry, said the letter was "extremely problematic".
"It's hard to see how adopting uncritically all Palestinian positions and adopting a confrontational attitude to Israel will bring Israel and the Palestinians closer to reconciliation, compromise and peace.
"The document will only reinforce those who are suspicious of Europe's intentions and continue to marginalise the EU's role in peacemaking in this region."
He also denied that settlement products were mislabelled.
The letter, sent earlier this week, coincided with the US abandoning its attempts to persuade Israel to agree to a fresh settlement freeze in order to bring the two sides back to the negotiating table.
The secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, was holding a series of bilateral meetings today with Palestinian and Israeli leaders in Washington.
Clinton was scheduled to meet the Palestinian prime minister, Salam Fayyad, and the Israeli defence minister, Ehud Barak, as well as the Palestinian chief negotiator, Saeb Erekat, and the Israeli opposition leader, Tzipi Livni.
Clinton was expected to outline the direction of the administration's Middle East policy plans in a speech later. US officials say there is little prospect of direct talks. It is likely the Americans will return to shuttle diplomacy focused on issues of borders and Israel's security demands.
Obama's Middle East envoy, George Mitchell, is returning to the region next week.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/de ... nce-israel
Israel faces tougher line from EU after former heads call for Palestinian state
Former EU leaders sign letter urging creation of state with East Jerusalem as capital and settlement freeze
* Chris McGreal in Washington and Harriet Sherwood
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 10 December 2010
Twenty-six European grandees have urged the EU to adopt a tougher stance towards Israel including taking "concrete measures" and exacting "consequences" over continued settlement building on occupied land, which they say is illegal under international law.
The former EU leaders said that in the face of "the ongoing deterioration of the situation on the ground", the EU, in co-operation with other international bodies, should put forward a "concrete and comprehensive proposal for the resolution of this conflict". A deadline of April 2011 for progress in peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians should be set, after which the international community should intervene.
"Time to secure a sustainable peace is fast running out," said the group, which includes former EU commissioner Chris Patten, former EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, former Irish president Mary Robinson and another nine former heads of state. It sent a letter to EU president Herman van Rompuy, foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton and all EU heads of government before a meeting of foreign ministers on Monday, saying: "It is clear that without a rapid and dramatic move … a two-state solution, which forms the one and only available option for a peaceful resolution of this conflict, will be increasingly difficult to attain."
The letter says the group had received "signals" from US officials that the best way to help American efforts to reach a peace deal was to put a "price tag" on policies that contradict those advocated by Barack Obama.
The group calls on the EU to:
• Put forward a plan to resolve the conflict, including a clear time frame, together with the US, UN, Russia, and Arab League.
• Reiterate its position that it will not recognise any changes to the June 1967 boundaries [of Israel], that a Palestinian state should be "territory equivalent to 100% of the territory occupied in 1967", and that its capital should be East Jerusalem.
• Refuse to upgrade ties with Israel unless settlements are frozen. "The EU has always maintained that settlements are illegal, but has not attached any consequences for continued and systematic settlement expansion."
• Bring an end to the import of settlement products "which are, in contradiction with EU labelling recommendations, marketed as originating in Israel".
• Send a high-level delegation, including Lady Ashton, to East Jerusalem "as a matter of urgency to draw attention to the erosion of the Palestinian presence there, and report back to the EU with an agenda of proposals to arrest and reverse the deterioration of the situation on the ground". The situation in East Jerusalem, it says, is the "most critical flashpoint and greatest threat" to a peace deal.
The letter praises "impressive progress in the … development of the infrastructure of a Palestinian state", in which the EU has invested billions of euros.
The signatories to the letter all held office within the past decade, when there have been repeated attempts to broker a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians.
Ashton replied to the letter, which refers in detail to EU policy on the Middle East agreed a year ago, saying "the implementation of the [EU's earlier] conclusions is proceeding on several fronts", according to the EUobserver website.
Ygal Palmor, spokesman for the Israeli foreign ministry, said the letter was "extremely problematic".
"It's hard to see how adopting uncritically all Palestinian positions and adopting a confrontational attitude to Israel will bring Israel and the Palestinians closer to reconciliation, compromise and peace.
"The document will only reinforce those who are suspicious of Europe's intentions and continue to marginalise the EU's role in peacemaking in this region."
He also denied that settlement products were mislabelled.
The letter, sent earlier this week, coincided with the US abandoning its attempts to persuade Israel to agree to a fresh settlement freeze in order to bring the two sides back to the negotiating table.
The secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, was holding a series of bilateral meetings today with Palestinian and Israeli leaders in Washington.
Clinton was scheduled to meet the Palestinian prime minister, Salam Fayyad, and the Israeli defence minister, Ehud Barak, as well as the Palestinian chief negotiator, Saeb Erekat, and the Israeli opposition leader, Tzipi Livni.
Clinton was expected to outline the direction of the administration's Middle East policy plans in a speech later. US officials say there is little prospect of direct talks. It is likely the Americans will return to shuttle diplomacy focused on issues of borders and Israel's security demands.
Obama's Middle East envoy, George Mitchell, is returning to the region next week.
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Comments
take a good look
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What a tired, baseless accusation that is. Please explain what it is about the stance of these leaders you find to be anti-semetic.
You say it's tired because you've probably heard it a million times- but to call it baseless? See WWII for starters. And I'm not even talkin about the Nazi's, I'm talking about "the good guys".
I would think that since many of these old, decrepid EU leaders would have better letters to write considering that after years of their failed Obama-like policies, they're economies are collapsing and the US Fed (it was just revealed) had to bail out they're financial systems/banks to the tune of about 3 trillion bucks. But no, foremost on their list of things to fix is the Palestinian question of sovereignty. Right.
During times of financial hardship, Europe blames the Jews. It's hilarious that you pretend to know nothing about this- or, maybe you really don't. either way.... :?
You've taken the holocaust, western refusal of jewish refugees, and the jewish miser banker stereotype, and managed to morph the anti-jewish sentiment of all three, (despite the fact that they have nothing to do with the OP), into something that supposedly supports your claims of anti-semitism.
The former leaders do NOT blame any financial hardship on the Jews, so that claim is a straight up strawman. Total deflection.
And most thinking people realize that the invocation of crimes against one's forefathers, as justification for crimes against others, does a great disservice to the memory of said forefathers.
Empowering the Palestinian people in an effort to find a lasting peace has NOTHING to do with the holocaust. These former leaders are calling on current world leaders to put some actions behind their words, nothing less, nothing more. Sad that they never acted whent they were in a position of power, but better late than never.
I can introduce you to an Ayatollah in Iran that would find your philosophy warmly familiar.
Ok, then, what about the Vichy regime? If to see your point, one must turn blind eyes to the generations of European Anti-Semitism that has occurred, well then, I think you'll find yourself in lonely company among scholars.
As for these former EU leaders, much like some of ours, they should shoulder the responsibility for promoting the fiscal policies that led to this collapse- and the last bastion of refuge for the fathers of economic collapase is to blame it on the Jews. In Europe, that kind of rhetoric/ distraction will always find an audience. Do you think the average European citizen really gives a damn right now? They're worried about the economy too, not about how far some fucking Palestinian has to walk to worship.
"Calling on world leaders to put some action behind they're words"???? Those are your words. And there could be NO broader generalization on the subject. Duh... we want... uh, SOME ACTION.... on, uh... uh....
on WHAT? Some action on what? Fucking say it... These leaders want the US, who, to Europe's chigrin, IS relevant, to strong-arm Israel into freezing it's growth and development. And so do you. You seek no concession from Palestinians- only from Israelis.
And finally, this stems from one of Europe's biggest problems, and it's NOT our problem: the ever-increasing Muslim population in European nations, and the civil unrest that can occur b/c of it. (See the recent Muslim riots that paralyzed France, and the veil/ head scarf controversy that lead to increased terror threats and Eiffel Tower closings. Fact: Mohammed is the most popular name in the UK!!) Do you think this could be EU pandering/placating of those EU Muslims?
what's different between your bigotry towards Muslims and the antisemitism of the past.
Pull a Holder
this is an example of your bigotry toward muslims. apparently you think muslims themselves are a problem, which is pure racism.
They’re broad generalizations because you’ve done nothing to show me how they relate to the stance of the former EU leaders. You’re implying that the motivation of these people is purely anti-semetic…which conveniently dismisses their opinion with no further discussion. Go figure…
What about it? Who said anything about turning a blind eye to anti-semitism?
Way to contradict yourself in the span of two sentences….so which is it? How can this kind of rhetoric always find an audience if the average Euro doesn’t give a damn? The hyperbole in your last sentence shows the level of respect you show those who disagree with you, and your understanding of the situation in general. YOU are the one bringing up EU economics here, the EU leaders did not. NO ONE has blamed the economic collapse on the jews. Got it?
I don’t need to ‘fucking say it’. It’s in the OP.
Look for the bullets and bright red text if you can't read the whole thing.
Growth and development, eh?
No, I don’t. But thanks for confirming that Islamophobia is very much real, and as dangerous as anti-semitism has ever been.
what concessions do you seek from the palestinians? ... understanding that israel continues to expand and take palestinian land on a daily basis and that the treatment of palestinians in gaza and elsewhere are crimes against humanity ...
do you believe israel has a right to take whatever it wants? ... the freezing of israel's growth and development is a necessity not only for a lasting peace but for just reasons ...
Wow, your true colors have come out. I thought I was having an intense academic discussion w/ a rare and educated PJ fan. But your dismissal of signifigant historical events, as well as your misinterpretation of what European Nations have recognized as a growing crisis as widespread bigotry and Islamaphobia indicate a lack of understanding for not only basic World History, but current events as well.
I've referenced WWII, the Holocaust, wars fought by UK to avoid accepting Jewish refugees, Puppet Nazi gov'ts in France that saw French Christians collaborating to exterminate French Jews, nation-wide riots in France, actual instances of EU nations passing legislation to outlaw Muslim headscarves, which in turn spawned elevated terror threats with tangible effects on tourism and daily life in these countries.
And you... you have sighted one article that you found where? at The Guardian. Fucking academic arent you?
I don't expect to agree w/ everyone on here, but was hoping for some reasoned debate. How can I debate you when you are so obviously, embarrassingly, and hopelessly uninformed?
reasoned debate? you don't want reasoned debate. if you did you wouldn't make such racist, ridiculous comments such as this. and yes I know you were probably the most prolific poster in the message board history before you got banned. got that part. but i was just thinking like, say, if I disappeared and came back, I'd at least bring cookies.
at the very least i'd try to have at least 5-6 posts before i started being a dick to people.
Elect a gov't that isn't listed as a terrorist organization by the EU, US, Canada, etc.
Denounce and rewrite the 1988 Chater that calls for the destruction of Israel, for starters.
Oh, quit your crying. And you can scream racism all you want, most intelligent people are numb to this
lib-tactic after 2 years of being demonized as such for disagreeing w/ the policies of a half-black President. Just save it. I harbor no prejudice, and have spoken none here. What France legislates on it's Muslim citizens is their business. And it's a fact. I deal in facts, you are dealing in race-baiting mudslinging and personal attacks. Cookies? what the hell are you even talking about?
I haven’t dismissed any significant historical events. I’m aware of anti-semitism and believe it is real and as disgusting as any other form of discrimination. I’ve asked how these events directly relate to the requests made in the OP, and you’ve yet to demonstrate this.
Also, please cite a source explaining that EU nations have ‘recognized as a growing crisis’ the rise of the European muslim population?
I didn’t ‘sight’ the guardian article (even if I did – it is a straight-forward news piece, not an OP-ED, so what’s your point?)…..what are you 'sighting'??? Your brain? That's supposed to be more convincing?
I’m actually trying to discuss the article….you are trying to deflect by bringing up every legit example of jewish persecution in modern history, and make Israel the victims here, when clearly they are not. LOL….thanks for the chuckle. Oh the irony.
Here is your evidence. The fact that you needed me to "sight" this for you, in indicative.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12812186/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... Harry.html
jesus, man.... It's been all over the news for years now.
Now, your turn. Please site any one of my "90% personal attacks". Then put your thick skin on, and we'll talk again.
uhhhh ... what does that have to do with anything? ... would there even be a HAMAS if israel wasn't continually expanding illegally and treating palestinians as dirt? ... these are all deflection points ... at the end of the day, israel must not cater to the ultra-orthodox right wingers in parliament ... even our resident israeli on here has said as much ...
From the msnbc article:
“Among other issues, the fury in the streets among the mostly Muslim youth has underscored the lack of political representation for this growing segment of French society.”
….Sounds more like a crisis of apathy and disconnect, resulting in a large demographic feeling politically disaffected. This is not anything resembling proof of the increasing Muslim population being a ‘growing crisis’ in and of itself.
My thick skin is on, or I’d likely have told you to fuck yourself a few posts ago. I said I’d ignore them, so let it be; stop with the provocations.
What's a "resident Israeli"? Your tone is offensive, and Polaris-X, I'm well acquainted w/ your views on Israel, and frankly, am not interested in debating w/ someone who holds the contemptable views that you do.
No offense intended, but no respect reserved.
Peace.
Siting of personal attacks: FAIL. Thanks for coming out, kid.
Your homework for tomorrow is to read from whatever sources you choose, about the Muslim riots in France, the growing Muslim population in EU, and state how you think the EU governments could bridge this culture-gap. As usual, all thin-skinned liberals will be allowed to whine and cry and protest the unfair treatment of people you don't know, have never met, misunderstand, and hail from places you've only heard of.
Until tomorrow children...
What view would that be? that That maybe Israel should stop breaking international law?
your on an internet board, not in a university or college, so your not going to get academic referencing in this setting, and it shouldn't be expected its a fucking internet forum, however, i could provide you with academic sources pointing towards American and European islamaphobia is similar to antisemitism in Europe in the 1920's-30's, however you need to be in a university to access it and i highly doubt you are...
secondly, the idea that Islam is a problem in itself it is extremely bigoted, so how is my question baseless and inflammatory
Who you callin liberal? There's a personal attack right there
If you want to start a new thread about it, please do so, and I will reply to it…In the meantime, stop detracting from the original topic….I’ve asked no less than three times for you to show me how calls for recognition of the June '67 borders, and action against further settlement expansion, have sweet fuck all to do with the French Riots, the holocaust, jewish stereotypes, anti-Semitism etc. You can’t do it. The Israelis are 100% CRIMINAL in continuing to forcibly steal land, and 100% CRIMINAL in their blockade of Gaza.... you are simply trying to change the subject to avoid defending the indefensible....which you clearly do.
for future reference, cause youve spelt it incorrectly twice just in this post.. its CITE.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
damn grammar nazis... :geek:
just trying to help you look more intelligent.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Nice attempt at twisting the facts here.
The call for a Palestinian state in line with U.N 242 has been around a lot longer than the recent world economic recession. The whole world supports 242 and has supported it for the past 40 years. The whole world except the U.S that is. To trivialize this issue by claiming that it's just a diversionary tactic used to apportion blame on Israel for the present day fiscal crisis by some alleged anti-Semites is really scraping the bottom of the fucking barrel.
But then this doesn't really surprise me, as I'm pretty familiar with the fact that Israel's apologists have nothing but bullshit in their arsenal.