why do we have to accept ANY illegal immigrant and have to explain to you or anyone else why not ?
these facts you keep asking for are simple, anchor baby's..more and more people will come over here have a baby or babys to get citizenship for their children....bullshit ! instead of trying to change our country to suit them why don't they try fixing their own country's as hard as they try to change ours.
Godfather.
I'm guessing that a 4 year tour in the marines will get them to change to our culture. And from a financial and educational standpoint, military service will be the path that most choose. I don't have stats, but my eyeballs tell me that a culture that favors hard work over high education, combined with financial difficulties, will take the route that pays you to become a citizen, even though they are taking a chance they could be killed or hurt to fight for our freedom.
At this point, the DREAM act appears to be the best compromise I've seen on the issue (i know, there that dirty word "compromise" is again). I'm usually in favor of tougher immigration enforcement, bigger walls, etc, but none of those measures work and there is fierce opposition that will not allow them to work.
I'm not going to fully endorse it without reading through the fine details, but it is the best proposal I've seen that can benefit both sides of the aisle and I think it benefits our country and is easier to enact then proposal 1 (let everyone in!) and proposal 2 (kick everyone out!). If someone is able to show a serious commitment to improve themselves or fight for our freedom, I would much rather share the sidewalks with them versus the drop-outs and bums.
And if this act passes and an individual feels they don't want to go to college or serve in the military, there will be no pity from me if they are deported.
why do we have to accept ANY illegal immigrant and have to explain to you or anyone else why not ?
these facts you keep asking for are simple, anchor baby's..more and more people will come over here have a baby or babys to get citizenship for their children....bullshit ! instead of trying to change our country to suit them why don't they try fixing their own country's as hard as they try to change ours.
Godfather.
I'm guessing that a 4 year tour in the marines will get them to change to our culture. And from a financial and educational standpoint, military service will be the path that most choose. I don't have stats, but my eyeballs tell me that a culture that favors hard work over high education, combined with financial difficulties, will take the route that pays you to become a citizen, even though they are taking a chance they could be killed or hurt to fight for our freedom.
At this point, the DREAM act appears to be the best compromise I've seen on the issue (i know, there that dirty word "compromise" is again). I'm usually in favor of tougher immigration enforcement, bigger walls, etc, but none of those measures work and there is fierce opposition that will not allow them to work.
I'm not going to fully endorse it without reading through the fine details, but it is the best proposal I've seen that can benefit both sides of the aisle and I think it benefits our country and is easier to enact then proposal 1 (let everyone in!) and proposal 2 (kick everyone out!). If someone is able to show a serious commitment to improve themselves or fight for our freedom, I would much rather share the sidewalks with them versus the drop-outs and bums.
And if this act passes and an individual feels they don't want to go to college or serve in the military, there will be no pity from me if they are deported.
3 years in the military for citizenship...nahhhhh, I was just watching a documentary on gangs in the military and they join to go back to their gangs and teach them to become will trained killers on our streets,yeah just what we need.
3 years in the military for citizenship...nahhhhh, I was just watching a documentary on gangs in the military and they join to go back to their gangs and teach them to become will trained killers on our streets,yeah just what we need.
Godfather.
But without the program, they will already be on the streets and they will get a three year head start on becoming a trained killer since the gang trainers are already at work. At least Uncle Sam will get three years of productive service before they continue to rape and pillage by that logic.
why do we have to accept ANY illegal immigrant and have to explain to you or anyone else why not ?
these facts you keep asking for are simple, anchor baby's..more and more people will come over here have a baby or babys to get citizenship for their children....bullshit ! instead of trying to change our country to suit them why don't they try fixing their own country's as hard as they try to change ours.
Godfather.
I'm guessing that a 4 year tour in the marines will get them to change to our culture. And from a financial and educational standpoint, military service will be the path that most choose. I don't have stats, but my eyeballs tell me that a culture that favors hard work over high education, combined with financial difficulties, will take the route that pays you to become a citizen, even though they are taking a chance they could be killed or hurt to fight for our freedom.
At this point, the DREAM act appears to be the best compromise I've seen on the issue (i know, there that dirty word "compromise" is again). I'm usually in favor of tougher immigration enforcement, bigger walls, etc, but none of those measures work and there is fierce opposition that will not allow them to work.
I'm not going to fully endorse it without reading through the fine details, but it is the best proposal I've seen that can benefit both sides of the aisle and I think it benefits our country and is easier to enact then proposal 1 (let everyone in!) and proposal 2 (kick everyone out!). If someone is able to show a serious commitment to improve themselves or fight for our freedom, I would much rather share the sidewalks with them versus the drop-outs and bums.
And if this act passes and an individual feels they don't want to go to college or serve in the military, there will be no pity from me if they are deported.
Seems like this is common sense- And also seems like some kind of positive solution.
Most of the specific people who would benefit from this bill, would probably already share the basic American culture, because they were pretty much raised in the US. It's not like they came here by choice- These kids watch the same cartoons your kids would, and probably share the same interest as their peers; the military or school would just give them more pride to be a productive citizen.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Tonifig8,
Are you for or against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Are you for or against US troops stationed in military bases around the entire world?
BUILD A FUCKING WALL!!!!!! Think of the jobs it would create...
Then, AFTER the borders are secured, we'll talk citizenship.
But saying "Hey, we got free college for any Mexican that wants to stroll up here- Paid for in full by a working American!!"- that is unacceptable w/ open borders.
You think we've got a problem w/ illegals now?? Pass the KeepDreamin' Act and see what happens...holy shit.
I thought they tried the wall? Yeah, secure the boarders- I am 100% for that too- I think everyone is for that!
This isn't only about Mexican's and this isn't about free college paid for by working American's -
Do you have any real facts? Do you have any real solutions?
why do we have to accept ANY illegal immigrant and have to explain to you or anyone else why not ?
these facts you keep asking for are simple, anchor baby's..more and more people will come over here have a baby or babys to get citizenship for their children....bullshit ! instead of trying to change our country to suit them why don't they try fixing their own country's as hard as they try to change ours.
Norteamericanos son cansados de es mierda en extranjeros de compra que vienen a nuestro país y la ciudadanía y al bienestar exigente o los trabajos, si una persona viene aquí ilegalmente deben ser enviados inmediatamente a su propio país por mucho que largo hayan estado aquí.
Godfather.
You don't have to explain anything to me- But I thought this was a form where we debated positions and real facts. This seems like you want it to be about ideology rather then solutions.
Anchor babies are not supported in the bill- There are specifics on that- But what's the point you don't really care about those who are here and the real impact to our society- You rather being ignorant and think that you can simply starve these people out of here. Do you not understand that the majority of the people affected by the bill are people who know nothing outside of the United States? Some of these people didn't even realize that they weren't US citizens until they graduated from High School. I don't think that's their fault and they shouldn't just be shipped out when they can be beneficial to our country. Sure their might be some screw ups in the bunch, but they aren't suppose to be honored with Citizenship until they have proven the character- So I don't think they'll simply allow gang members to become citizens.
Our country is suppose to be secure and it's suppose to monitor the boarders and not allow people in- that is a different issue not related to the Dream Act. Here we are talking about specifics.
Who are you talking about when you say,
trying to change our country to suit them why don't they try fixing their own country's as hard as they try to change ours
. I am a US Citizen and I am trying to change this countries laws- Do I not have a right? I am supporting this because it seems to be beneficial to our society.
Norteamericanos son cansados de es mierda en extranjeros de compra que vienen a nuestro país y la ciudadanía y al bienestar exigente o los trabajos, si una persona viene aquí ilegalmente deben ser enviados inmediatamente a su propio país por mucho que largo hayan estado aquí.
What's this?
I don't even know why this issue is being discussed - we all know it wont pass- Especially with so many people like you out there who feel their culture is being threaten........
Who wants real solutions anyways-
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Are you for or against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Are you for or against US troops stationed in military bases around the entire world?
I think I might have answered this question before.
Personally I think these questions are complicated-and deserve much discussion, but I'll give you direct answers.
I do not support the Wars- Although I was behind the idea of taking down Bin L. Was never in support of going into Iraq. Pull out the troops now(I know it's not that easy)!!
Military bases I'm caught in the middle, but I support them.
let me know if you have any other questions.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I think I might have answered this question before.
Personally I think these questions are complicated-and deserve much discussion, but I'll give you direct answers.
I do not support the Wars- Although I was behind the idea of taking down Bin L. Was never in support of going into Iraq. Pull out the troops now(I know it's not that easy)!!
Military bases I'm caught in the middle, but I support them.
let me know if you have any other questions.
Ok, so you don't support the wars. But you do support sending a never ending supply of soldiers? Because that was a basis for your argument, having more troops.
So why would you want more people to be sent to two wars that you don't support?
I think I might have answered this question before.
Personally I think these questions are complicated-and deserve much discussion, but I'll give you direct answers.
I do not support the Wars- Although I was behind the idea of taking down Bin L. Was never in support of going into Iraq. Pull out the troops now(I know it's not that easy)!!
Military bases I'm caught in the middle, but I support them.
let me know if you have any other questions.
Ok, so you don't support the wars. But you do support sending a never ending supply of soldiers? Because that was a basis for your argument, having more troops.
So why would you want more people to be sent to two wars that you don't support?
Sorry, but that wasn't the basis of my argument. I support real solutions and real progress- People who joining the military aren't always sent to war-
If these people joined the military they would be serving America - After they are done with their service they would be approved or disapproved for citizenship.
(sorry for taking long to respond I'm not always at my computer even though i am logged on)
Unsung,
why don't you support this bill? Do you see a better solution for some of these people, who for example, didn't even know that they weren't American's until they graduated high school (i know not all stories are like this one)??
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I do not support any type of so called immigration reform until the border is secured.
I am also 100% against any type of amnesty. It has been done before and ten years later the problem exists again.
However much I'd like to see deportations of illegals I know it is not likely and probably impossible. So I'd have to see many things happening before I could ever support amnesty for anyone who is here illegally. None of it matters until the border is secured, and I can't support anything until that happens.
I do not support any type of so called immigration reform until the border is secured.
I am also 100% against any type of amnesty. It has been done before and ten years later the problem exists again.
However much I'd like to see deportations of illegals I know it is not likely and probably impossible. So I'd have to see many things happening before I could ever support amnesty for anyone who is here illegally. None of it matters until the border is secured, and I can't support anything until that happens.
I wont get into it-
Fare enough.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I'd be in favor of parts of the DREAM Act, but there is much in that for which I can not support.
And to be really blunt I can't support any program that involves legalizing approximately 12 million people. As much as I hate that there are only two parties in political power, there would only be one that adds 12 million voters.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I do not support any type of so called immigration reform until the border is secured.
I am also 100% against any type of amnesty. It has been done before and ten years later the problem exists again.
However much I'd like to see deportations of illegals I know it is not likely and probably impossible. So I'd have to see many things happening before I could ever support amnesty for anyone who is here illegally. None of it matters until the border is secured, and I can't support anything until that happens.
I wont get into it-
Fare enough.
You asked. I told. Border security must come first.
Believe it or not- I now understand your position. Hopefully one day you can see the light of day....I too hope that the boarders are one day secure.
We are just two very different American's with different experiences.
I was sitting in a waiting room the other day and this older Hispanic women started talking to me, she was smart, very alive and alert......anyways, she went into her life and how she came to the country and what life was like back in the 70's/80's ........, She was telling me that back in the days the Gov would pay people $50 for every illegal immigrant that they reported.....imagine that today? :shock: ..... This is a very complicated issue- and I think it should be tackled in sections......
i remember reading a post from cajunkiwi some time ago where he made some really valid points about how difficult it is for an outsider to legally obtain citizenship in the US.
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol
I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'
The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.
The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.
The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).
Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.
It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.
i remember reading a post from cajunkiwi some time ago where he made some really valid points about how difficult it is for an outsider to legally obtain citizenship in the US.
I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?
I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol
I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'
The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.
The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.
The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).
Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.
It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.
It may be difficult, but that fact does not validate the actions of those who come here illegally.
[It may be difficult, but that fact does not validate the actions of those who come here illegally.
so why not make it easier?
problem solved.
ask the other countries why they don't make it easier, this counry..our country is flooded with Illegals from just about all over the world something like 11,000.000 people that sneak in here and you can't tell me that they're not a financial strain in one way or the other in the our economy, it's total crap IMO and I'm tired of these people sneaking over here and using a system(medical,welfare etc.) that they haven't earned or have any intent to pay for so making it easier ain't the answer.
[It may be difficult, but that fact does not validate the actions of those who come here illegally.
so why not make it easier?
problem solved.
ask the other countries why they don't make it easier, this counry..our country is flooded with Illegals from just about all over the world something like 11,000.000 people that sneak in here and you can't tell me that they're not a financial strain in one way or the other in the our economy, it's total crap IMO and I'm tired of these people sneaking over here and using a system(medical,welfare etc.) that they haven't earned or have any intent to pay for so making it easier ain't the answer.
Godfather.
so make it easier for them to obtain citizenship. by easier i'm talking about the application process which as cajunkiwi explained is an absolute nightmare.
if it was easier for them to obtain citizenship and they come here legally, would you welcome them with open arms?
if they did make it easier to go through the process to become American citizens yes I would.....but what is that makes it harder ? I really have no idea,I just don't want it easier for criminals to come over also through loop holes in a easier process.
if they did make it easier to go through the process to become American citizens yes I would.....but what is that makes it harder ? I really have no idea,I just don't want it easier for criminals to come over also through loop holes in a easier process.
Godfather.
maybe you should read the post from cajunkiwi that t/a reposted a few posts up. if that is not an absolute clusterfuck of hoops to jump through i don't know what is. and how many of those seeking citizenship, really, seriously, how can you determine who is a criminal, a potential criminal, or an upstanding member of scoiety? if you really want to, you can answer the first part with a background check, but the other two are impossible to determine. i am fairly certain that there would be more upstanding citizens than criminals becoming citizens. how many criminals do you know that would actually go through the long, arduous process? it seems to me that the harder you make the process, the more people would say "fuck it i'm going there illegally."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
if they did make it easier to go through the process to become American citizens yes I would.....but what is that makes it harder ? I really have no idea,I just don't want it easier for criminals to come over also through loop holes in a easier process.
Godfather.
maybe you should read the post from cajunkiwi that t/a reposted a few posts up. if that is not an absolute clusterfuck of hoops to jump through i don't know what is. and how many of those seeking citizenship, really, seriously, how can you determine who is a criminal, a potential criminal, or an upstanding member of scoiety? if you really want to, you can answer the first part with a background check, but the other two are impossible to determine. i am fairly certain that there would be more upstanding citizens than criminals becoming citizens. how many criminals do you know that would actually go through the long, arduous process? it seems to me that the harder you make the process, the more people would say "fuck it i'm going there illegally."
I realize for people like cajunkiwi this must be a real pain in the ass, a friend of mine married a gal from Thailand and between the US and Thailand it took over 3 years and thousands of dollars..mostly given to Thailand.
and maybe I watch too much "Gang Land"
I hope things work out for C.K on his citizenship soon.
I do not support any type of so called immigration reform until the border is secured.
I am also 100% against any type of amnesty. It has been done before and ten years later the problem exists again.
However much I'd like to see deportations of illegals I know it is not likely and probably impossible. So I'd have to see many things happening before I could ever support amnesty for anyone who is here illegally. None of it matters until the border is secured, and I can't support anything until that happens.
I wont get into it-
Fare enough.
You asked. I told. Border security must come first.
What are your thoughts on how to accomplish this without spending billions of dollars on construction and having a huge operations budget each year. And are there other things that may be more important for budget consideration?
The only way to secure the border is to have a system of walls, moats, electrified razor wire and armed guards, similar to Berlin wall. Walls don't work just by themselves. San Diego has a huge wall and it's not working, obviously. Then you have to worry about tunnels, boats, planes, catapults, mules, etc.
This really seems like a good bill - and it seems to be a solution that would benefit a specific group of illegal immigrants along with benefiting our country...... Anyone change their mind on this bill? Or any of you willing to give it a shot?
Thune: I Would Never Vote For The DREAM Act
Appearing on Fox News contributor Laura Ingraham’s radio show yesterday, Sen. John Thune (R-SD) said he would never vote for the DREAM Act. Asked if he would ever consider voting for the measure, which would help children of undocumented immigrants gain a path to citizenship in exchange for completing college or serving in the military, the potential presidential contender flatly replied, “no”:
INGRAHAM: Would you ever vote for a DREAM Act?
THUNE: Would I? No. I mean, I think they’re trying to push that through. … I mean, this is the Democrat agenda, which as I said earlier, has been rejected by the American people.
Thune is wrong to suggest that DREAM has been “rejected by the American people.” A CNN poll from last week found that 54 percent of Americans support the bill, which used to enjoy strong Republican support from people like Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT), who have since flip flopped to oppose the measure. In the past year, DREAM has been vilified by conservatives as “backdoor amnesty,” with Fox News host Glenn Beck and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) even declaring that it will hurt white people.
I'm sure the CNN poll referred to them as "undocumented workers" instead of illegal immigrants, too. Political correctness has made it so we can't even chastise those blatantly breaking the law.
I'm sure the CNN poll referred to them as "undocumented workers" instead of illegal immigrants, too. Political correctness has made it so we can't even chastise those blatantly breaking the law.
So any chance you would support this bill?
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At this point, the DREAM act appears to be the best compromise I've seen on the issue (i know, there that dirty word "compromise" is again). I'm usually in favor of tougher immigration enforcement, bigger walls, etc, but none of those measures work and there is fierce opposition that will not allow them to work.
I'm not going to fully endorse it without reading through the fine details, but it is the best proposal I've seen that can benefit both sides of the aisle and I think it benefits our country and is easier to enact then proposal 1 (let everyone in!) and proposal 2 (kick everyone out!). If someone is able to show a serious commitment to improve themselves or fight for our freedom, I would much rather share the sidewalks with them versus the drop-outs and bums.
And if this act passes and an individual feels they don't want to go to college or serve in the military, there will be no pity from me if they are deported.
3 years in the military for citizenship...nahhhhh, I was just watching a documentary on gangs in the military and they join to go back to their gangs and teach them to become will trained killers on our streets,yeah just what we need.
Godfather.
Seems like this is common sense- And also seems like some kind of positive solution.
Most of the specific people who would benefit from this bill, would probably already share the basic American culture, because they were pretty much raised in the US. It's not like they came here by choice- These kids watch the same cartoons your kids would, and probably share the same interest as their peers; the military or school would just give them more pride to be a productive citizen.
Are you for or against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Are you for or against US troops stationed in military bases around the entire world?
You don't have to explain anything to me- But I thought this was a form where we debated positions and real facts. This seems like you want it to be about ideology rather then solutions.
Anchor babies are not supported in the bill- There are specifics on that- But what's the point you don't really care about those who are here and the real impact to our society- You rather being ignorant and think that you can simply starve these people out of here. Do you not understand that the majority of the people affected by the bill are people who know nothing outside of the United States? Some of these people didn't even realize that they weren't US citizens until they graduated from High School. I don't think that's their fault and they shouldn't just be shipped out when they can be beneficial to our country. Sure their might be some screw ups in the bunch, but they aren't suppose to be honored with Citizenship until they have proven the character- So I don't think they'll simply allow gang members to become citizens.
Our country is suppose to be secure and it's suppose to monitor the boarders and not allow people in- that is a different issue not related to the Dream Act. Here we are talking about specifics.
Who are you talking about when you say, . I am a US Citizen and I am trying to change this countries laws- Do I not have a right? I am supporting this because it seems to be beneficial to our society.
What's this?
I don't even know why this issue is being discussed - we all know it wont pass- Especially with so many people like you out there who feel their culture is being threaten........
Who wants real solutions anyways-
I'm still looking for an answer please.
I think I might have answered this question before.
Personally I think these questions are complicated-and deserve much discussion, but I'll give you direct answers.
I do not support the Wars- Although I was behind the idea of taking down Bin L. Was never in support of going into Iraq. Pull out the troops now(I know it's not that easy)!!
Military bases I'm caught in the middle, but I support them.
let me know if you have any other questions.
Ok, so you don't support the wars. But you do support sending a never ending supply of soldiers? Because that was a basis for your argument, having more troops.
So why would you want more people to be sent to two wars that you don't support?
Sorry, but that wasn't the basis of my argument. I support real solutions and real progress- People who joining the military aren't always sent to war-
If these people joined the military they would be serving America - After they are done with their service they would be approved or disapproved for citizenship.
(sorry for taking long to respond I'm not always at my computer even though i am logged on)
why don't you support this bill? Do you see a better solution for some of these people, who for example, didn't even know that they weren't American's until they graduated high school (i know not all stories are like this one)??
I am also 100% against any type of amnesty. It has been done before and ten years later the problem exists again.
However much I'd like to see deportations of illegals I know it is not likely and probably impossible. So I'd have to see many things happening before I could ever support amnesty for anyone who is here illegally. None of it matters until the border is secured, and I can't support anything until that happens.
I wont get into it-
Fare enough.
And to be really blunt I can't support any program that involves legalizing approximately 12 million people. As much as I hate that there are only two parties in political power, there would only be one that adds 12 million voters.
You asked. I told. Border security must come first.
We are just two very different American's with different experiences.
I was sitting in a waiting room the other day and this older Hispanic women started talking to me, she was smart, very alive and alert......anyways, she went into her life and how she came to the country and what life was like back in the 70's/80's ........, She was telling me that back in the days the Gov would pay people $50 for every illegal immigrant that they reported.....imagine that today? :shock: ..... This is a very complicated issue- and I think it should be tackled in sections......
i thought it was worthwhile posting it again.
It may be difficult, but that fact does not validate the actions of those who come here illegally.
problem solved.
ask the other countries why they don't make it easier, this counry..our country is flooded with Illegals from just about all over the world something like 11,000.000 people that sneak in here and you can't tell me that they're not a financial strain in one way or the other in the our economy, it's total crap IMO and I'm tired of these people sneaking over here and using a system(medical,welfare etc.) that they haven't earned or have any intent to pay for so making it easier ain't the answer.
Godfather.
if it was easier for them to obtain citizenship and they come here legally, would you welcome them with open arms?
Godfather.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I realize for people like cajunkiwi this must be a real pain in the ass, a friend of mine married a gal from Thailand and between the US and Thailand it took over 3 years and thousands of dollars..mostly given to Thailand.
and maybe I watch too much "Gang Land"
I hope things work out for C.K on his citizenship soon.
Godfather.
The only way to secure the border is to have a system of walls, moats, electrified razor wire and armed guards, similar to Berlin wall. Walls don't work just by themselves. San Diego has a huge wall and it's not working, obviously. Then you have to worry about tunnels, boats, planes, catapults, mules, etc.
Thune: I Would Never Vote For The DREAM Act
Appearing on Fox News contributor Laura Ingraham’s radio show yesterday, Sen. John Thune (R-SD) said he would never vote for the DREAM Act. Asked if he would ever consider voting for the measure, which would help children of undocumented immigrants gain a path to citizenship in exchange for completing college or serving in the military, the potential presidential contender flatly replied, “no”:
INGRAHAM: Would you ever vote for a DREAM Act?
THUNE: Would I? No. I mean, I think they’re trying to push that through. … I mean, this is the Democrat agenda, which as I said earlier, has been rejected by the American people.
Thune is wrong to suggest that DREAM has been “rejected by the American people.” A CNN poll from last week found that 54 percent of Americans support the bill, which used to enjoy strong Republican support from people like Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Orrin Hatch (R-UT), who have since flip flopped to oppose the measure. In the past year, DREAM has been vilified by conservatives as “backdoor amnesty,” with Fox News host Glenn Beck and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) even declaring that it will hurt white people.
http://thinkprogress.org/
So any chance you would support this bill?
Depends on who you ask? :?
No I don't think they're fully secure.....That goes for the ports and North/South Boarders.
If the boarders were secure do you think this bill would be a good start?