It funny that people bitch and complain about nothing being done in the government and that representatives are stalling and filibustering, etc...then when there is compromise, everyone bitches that they didn't get their way!!!!!
Yeah - I thought the rule of thumb was that if everyone was unhappy, then you were getting something done
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
so not even 2 years into his Presidency and the obama faithful are throwing him away.
that tells me that they are a whole lot smarter than the bush faithful who put up with his crap for 8 years.
i think obama genuinely has a good heart. unfortunately good hearts don't make a great President on it's own. you have got to be able to make the tough calls too and i've yet to see him be able to do that.
i'd also like to take a moment to say that i think the way he has been demonized by some of the American public (obama is a muslim OMG, he's not a citizen, he is the anti-christ, where is his birth certificate etc) just shows how hateful, ignorant, racist and plain dumb some Americans are.
those of you who are guilty of that behaviour ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
I'm not ashamed to criticize the man for his policies. I couldn't care less what the color of his skin is. It means nothing to me.
It may mean nothing to YOU, but it sure as hell meant a lot to a lot of conservatives.
If the man's name and color of his skin had nothing to do with the right's hatred of him, then how else do you explain the birther movement, the signs depicting him as an African witch doctor, the fuss over his middle name, Fox referring to his wife as his "Baby Mama," the increase in the number of people joining hate groups, and the 400% increase in death threats he received over the amount Bush received? Clearly having an African American with a Muslim name in the Oval Office scared the shit out of a lot of people on the right. You may not be one of them, but they're not exactly an insignificant minority either.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
so not even 2 years into his Presidency and the obama faithful are throwing him away.
that tells me that they are a whole lot smarter than the bush faithful who put up with his crap for 8 years.
i think obama genuinely has a good heart. unfortunately good hearts don't make a great President on it's own. you have got to be able to make the tough calls too and i've yet to see him be able to do that.
i'd also like to take a moment to say that i think the way he has been demonized by some of the American public (obama is a muslim OMG, he's not a citizen, he is the anti-christ, where is his birth certificate etc) just shows how hateful, ignorant, racist and plain dumb some Americans are.
those of you who are guilty of that behaviour ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
I'm not ashamed to criticize the man for his policies. I couldn't care less what the color of his skin is. It means nothing to me.
It may mean nothing to YOU, but it sure as hell meant a lot to a lot of conservatives.
If the man's name and color of his skin had nothing to do with the right's hatred of him, then how else do you explain the birther movement, the signs depicting him as an African witch doctor, the fuss over his middle name, Fox referring to his wife as his "Baby Mama," the increase in the number of people joining hate groups, and the 400% increase in death threats he received over the amount Bush received? Clearly having an African American with a Muslim name in the Oval Office scared the shit out of a lot of people on the right. You may not be one of them, but they're not exactly an insignificant minority either.
Could you kindly provide proof and examples w/ links for things you are talking about.... its fascinating.
No, Angel. you fuckin said it, now own it. Anytime someone disagrees w/ your boy, they're a racist. It's so old. I guess 58% of America is racist b/c that's how many people disapprove of Obama. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5085 ... l.html.csp
It's so old.
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
No, Angel. you fuckin said it, now own it. Anytime someone disagrees w/ your boy, they're a racist. It's so old. I guess 58% of America is racist b/c that's how many people disapprove of Obama. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5085 ... l.html.csp
It's so old.
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
Confused by your quote, since that wasn't to you, was completely off-topic, and was yesterday.... :?
Not suprised by your reply though: Lacking any PROOF or LINKS or NEWS ARTICLES to support your statements.
Good luck. I'll check back later to see if you can provide any...
No, Angel. you fuckin said it, now own it. Anytime someone disagrees w/ your boy, they're a racist. It's so old. I guess 58% of America is racist b/c that's how many people disapprove of Obama. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5085 ... l.html.csp
It's so old.
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
Confused by your quote, since that wasn't to you, was completely off-topic, and was yesterday.... :?
Not suprised by your reply though: Lacking any PROOF or LINKS or NEWS ARTICLES to support your statements.
Good luck. I'll check back later to see if you can provide any...
I see you can't respond to the questions posed to you...shocking...
It may mean nothing to YOU, but it sure as hell meant a lot to a lot of conservatives.
If the man's name and color of his skin had nothing to do with the right's hatred of him, then how else do you explain the birther movement, the signs depicting him as an African witch doctor, the fuss over his middle name, Fox referring to his wife as his "Baby Mama," the increase in the number of people joining hate groups, and the 400% increase in death threats he received over the amount Bush received? Clearly having an African American with a Muslim name in the Oval Office scared the shit out of a lot of people on the right. You may not be one of them, but they're not exactly an insignificant minority either.
Could you kindly provide proof and examples w/ links for things you are talking about.... its fascinating.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/1 ... 06655.html
"During a segment discussing conservative attacks against Michelle Obama, the wife of presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama, the network described the former as "Obama's baby mama.""
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi ... _violence/
"The paranoid rage, however, "has never been as finely tuned as this," he said. "They have a lightning rod in this case. We've never had a black president before.""
http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... acist.html
"As David Duke, a former Klan leader who was once a member of the Louisiana legislature, has said, Obama is a "visual aid" that galvanizes the white supremacist movement"
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-26/us/h ... s?_s=PM:US
"On the day after Obama's historic election, more than 2,000 people joined his Web site, a remarkable increase from the approximately 80 new members a day he was getting, Black said. His Web site, which was started in 1995, is one of the oldest and largest hate group sites. The site received so many hits that it crashed after election results were announced."
But no, you're right, I'm sure all of the anti-Obama rhetoric is based solely on actual, bona-fide, real policies. Like death panels.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
No, Angel. you fuckin said it, now own it. Anytime someone disagrees w/ your boy, they're a racist. It's so old. I guess 58% of America is racist b/c that's how many people disapprove of Obama. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5085 ... l.html.csp
It's so old.
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
Confused by your quote, since that wasn't to you, was completely off-topic, and was yesterday.... :?
Not suprised by your reply though: Lacking any PROOF or LINKS or NEWS ARTICLES to support your statements.
Good luck. I'll check back later to see if you can provide any...
My apologies for not being on this site 24 hours a day and not seeing the post yesterday. And for assuming that discussions cannot continue over a period of days. And for assuming that when people are discussing something on a public forum, anyone else is free to chime in with their thoughts.
Oh, and my apologies for taking longer than 15 minutes to provide the links you were looking for
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
No, Angel. you fuckin said it, now own it. Anytime someone disagrees w/ your boy, they're a racist. It's so old. I guess 58% of America is racist b/c that's how many people disapprove of Obama. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/5085 ... l.html.csp
It's so old.
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
this is a pretty good list. do not forget the furor over him addressing school children with people saying he was going to "indoctrinate them". that had never been said about any president either.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Yeah, according to the biased op-eds and usual HuffPo heresay you posted (sorry, but thinkprogress.org just doesn't cut it) it would appear that there is at least one person in the US that doesn't like Obama simply b/c he is black.
I can live with it. What's your point? That ALL people that disagree w/ Obamoron are racist?
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
this is a pretty good list. do not forget the furor over him addressing school children with people saying he was going to "indoctrinate them". that had never been said about any president either.
I'll save Best of Times the trouble of asking and provide the link:
Florida GOP Chairman Jim Greer released a statement this week accusing Obama of using taxpayer money to "indoctrinate" children.
"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology," Greer said.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Yeah, according to the biased op-eds and usual HuffPo heresay you posted (sorry, but thinkprogress.org just doesn't cut it) it would appear that there is at least one person in the US that doesn't like Obama simply b/c he is black.
I can live with it. What's your point? That ALL people that disagree w/ Obamoron are racist?
That would make you a bigot. Again.
why don't YOU point out things to prove your side?
all you do is ask for sources and ridicule them when people take the time out of their lives to try to educate you. all you have done on this forum is ask for links and then refute them based on your opinion with no links backing your position. you have done that to probaly 15 people on here, including myself. if you were interested in "reasonable debate" as you say you are, you would contribute instead of just attack and belittle and namecall...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Yeah, according to the biased op-eds and usual HuffPo heresay you posted (sorry, but thinkprogress.org just doesn't cut it) it would appear that there is at least one person in the US that doesn't like Obama simply b/c he is black.
I can live with it. What's your point? That ALL people that disagree w/ Obamoron are racist?
That would make you a bigot. Again.
You can disagree with HuffPo all you want, but does that mean you don't believe the photographic evidence they provided? I'm still waiting for your point-by-point response, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that those things have no racial overtones whatsoever.
And no, I fully believe that many people who disagree with Obama do so because of his policies. But I also believe that there are also many people who disagree with him because he's an African American with Hussein for a middle name. The former aren't racist. The latter are. There is a distinction.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
this is a pretty good list. do not forget the furor over him addressing school children with people saying he was going to "indoctrinate them". that had never been said about any president either.
I'll save Best of Times the trouble of asking and provide the link:
Florida GOP Chairman Jim Greer released a statement this week accusing Obama of using taxpayer money to "indoctrinate" children.
"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology," Greer said.
lol thanks...
i was going to provide a link but i was expecting a link to counter it, which i am convinced i was not going to get.. i was not interested in posting something that would be automatically dismissed.
while i am at it, these other issues have not been attributed to other presidents and were based on fear and mistrust. how about all of the talk about reverend wright, his connection to that harvard professor, and the assertion that he was not experienced enough with his experience as a senator. that experience as a senator and his 2 years in office is more experience than his biggest critic on the matter, palin, who served 1/2 term as governor and resigned to whore herself out on the book and tv and twitter circuit.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I wasn't asserting any opinion, or trying to prove anything. I was asking for sources, and then formed my own opinions about them. Attacks? gimmeabreak.
Yeah, according to the biased op-eds and usual HuffPo heresay you posted (sorry, but thinkprogress.org just doesn't cut it) it would appear that there is at least one person in the US that doesn't like Obama simply b/c he is black.
I can live with it. What's your point? That ALL people that disagree w/ Obamoron are racist?
That would make you a bigot. Again.
why don't YOU point out things to prove your side?
all you do is ask for sources and ridicule them when people take the time out of their lives to try to educate you. all you have done on this forum is ask for links and then refute them based on your opinion with no links backing your position. you have done that to probaly 15 people on here, including myself. if you were interested in "reasonable debate" as you say you are, you would contribute instead of just attack and belittle and namecall...
I wouldn't hold my breath. I've been waiting for birthers to prove Obama was born in Kenya for two years. I have a hunch I'll go to my grave waiting for that magical Kenyan birth certificate to appear. I'm also waiting for someone to show me where the Death Panels are in the healthcare bill. I'll go to my grave waiting for those too.
And, you know, nothing says biased liberal op-ed like an article from a conservative British newspaper
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
I wasn't asserting any opinion, or trying to prove anything. I was asking for sources, and then formed my own opinions about them. Attacks? gimmeabreak.
Get it straight, gimme. You're better that that.
Yes, because referring to the president as "Obamoron" and calling me a racist because I honestly believe that some of the anti-Obama rhetoric is racially-motivated aren't personal attacks at all.
I have thick skin, so I really don't care one way or another if you like me or not, but if you're going to insult people, at least have the cojones to own up to it.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
What am I countering? I have taken NO POSITION here. You have made no point, save the one I ALREADY CONCEDED: It appears that there is at least one person that doesn't like Obamoron simply b/c he's black. I don't have a point to prove. I was just trying to understand why you think the way I do.
I know you guys are a little sensitive since your hope and change took the most historic beating of all time last November, but geez.... relax. It only took 30 years for your party to recover after Carter, and Obamoron is only twice that bad. You'll probably live to see a Dem President again... better start exercising.
I wasn't asserting any opinion, or trying to prove anything. I was asking for sources, and then formed my own opinions about them. Attacks? gimmeabreak.
Get it straight, gimme. You're better that that.
Yes, because referring to the president as "Obamoron" and calling me a racist because I honestly believe that some of the anti-Obama rhetoric is racially-motivated aren't personal attacks at all.
I have thick skin, so I really don't care one way or another if you like me or not, but if you're going to insult people, at least have the cojones to own up to it.
Cajunkiwi: YOU made a racist slip-up when YOU injected WHITE into a discussion about religion. I have nothing to say to you until you respond.
Don''t be a coward. YOU SAID IT. Fucking own it. WHAT DID YOU MEAN?
while i am at it, these other issues have not been attributed to other presidents and were based on fear and mistrust. how about all of the talk about reverend wright, his connection to that harvard professor, and the assertion that he was not experienced enough with his experience as a senator. that experience as a senator and his 2 years in office is more experience than his biggest critic on the matter, palin, who served 1/2 term as governor and resigned to whore herself out on the book and tv and twitter circuit.
The whole Palin thing cracks me up. During the campaign everyone on the right was firing criticisms at Obama because he was more of a celebrity than a politician. Then Palin quits as governor to do a TV show and a book deal, and the Tea Party worships her while Fox gives her ample airtime. Nope, no hypocrisy there. My wife is a Republican and she changes the channel as soon as Palin comes on (which isn't often, given that she refuses to watch Fox News too). She swears that if Palin wins the 2012 election (which is really about as likely as me, an actual foreigner with a birth certificate too prove it), then she'll be the first one in line to move overseas.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
CAJUNKIWI said: " If I see someone I know to be christian, I'll wish them a Merry Christmas. If I see someone I know to be jewish, I'll wish them a Happy Chanukah. If I have no idea, I'll play it safe and say "Happy Holidays." It's not a war as much as it's an acknowledgment that white christians aren't the only people in America."
CAJUNKIWI said: " If I see someone I know to be christian, I'll wish them a Merry Christmas. If I see someone I know to be jewish, I'll wish them a Happy Chanukah. If I have no idea, I'll play it safe and say "Happy Holidays." It's not a war as much as it's an acknowledgment that white christians aren't the only people in America."
WTF did you mean, kiwi? Own it.....
dude, it's quite obvious to me that you've taken that out of context. His point is that he knows that this isnt the only demographic that cares about holiday distinctions.
CAJUNKIWI said: " If I see someone I know to be christian, I'll wish them a Merry Christmas. If I see someone I know to be jewish, I'll wish them a Happy Chanukah. If I have no idea, I'll play it safe and say "Happy Holidays." It's not a war as much as it's an acknowledgment that white christians aren't the only people in America."
WTF did you mean, kiwi? Own it.....
dude, it's quite obvious to me that you've taken that out of context. His point is that he knows that this isnt the only demographic that cares about holiday distinctions.
I disagree. The point was adequately made without the mention of color.
Cajunkiwi: YOU made a racist slip-up when YOU injected WHITE into a discussion about religion. I have nothing to say to you until you respond.
Don''t be a coward. YOU SAID IT. Fucking own it. WHAT DID YOU MEAN?
I knew you couldn't go too many posts without dropping an F-bomb. Fucking good on ya.
What did I mean? Here's exactly what I meant:
1. I said the War on Christmas doesn't exist (my opinion).
2. Electric_Delta said he believed it did (his opinion).
3. I disagreed with him and said there is no war, just a public acknowledgment that there are multiple celebrations taking place at this time of year (again, my opinion).
4. I then proceeded to say that if I knew what religion someone belonged to, I would greet them with the appropriate phrase (Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah).
5. I also added that if I didn't know what religion someone belonged to, I'd play it safe and stick with Happy Holidays. It's a convenient catch-all, and when I say it I don't mean to disrespect anyone.
6. Despite there being a number of celebrations taking place at this time of year, I only listed two - Christmas and Chanukah - because, well, I don't have all day to provide an exhaustive list, and I didn't think it was that important that I do so.
7. I then went on to state that a lot of the people who believe there's a War on Christmas are white Christians who don't like the fact that the holiday isn't exclusively theirs anymore. That is my opinion, based on my observations of the people who believe the War on Christmas is real. While I have no idea what Electric_Delta looks like in real life, the only people I have ever personally seen complain about the War on Christmas are white Christians who don't like sharing their holiday season with African Americans (Kwanzaa), Muslims (Ramadan), and Jews (Chanukah). They never had a Menorah at their Christmas Tree-lighting ceremony growing up, and they resent its presence there now. I've never seen a Jewish person complain about a War on Chanukah, a Muslim complain about a War on Ramadan, or an African American complain about a War on Kwanzaa. But every December a handful of white Christians crawl out of the woodwork (not all, not even most, just a handful) and complain about a War on Christmas (that in my opinion doesn't exist), simply because they don't like having to share their holiday with other religions and cultures. I work for a state university, and we have a holiday celebration every year. Not a Christmas celebration. A holiday one. Why is it a holiday celebration and not a Christmas one? Because it involves multiple religions and cultures, and calling it a holiday celebration is a generic term that covers everyone. Yet every year, we hear comments that we hate Christmas because we don't call it a Christmas celebration. We don't hear from people saying we hate Chanukah and Kwanzaa because we don't call it a Chanukak celebration (that includes Christmas and Kwanzaa) or a Kwanzaa celebration (that includes Chanukah and Christmas). We only hear from people saying we hate Christmas. I'm not saying those protesters speak for the majority of white Christians (I seriously doubt they do), I'm just saying that it's been my experience that the only people who believe there's a War on Christmas fit that one particular ethnic group. And, for the record, the ones who explained WHY they think there's a War on Christmas have all provided the same reason - they resent the fact that other cultures and religions are included in "their" celebration.
Did I own it enough for you?
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
I wasn't asserting any opinion, or trying to prove anything. I was asking for sources, and then formed my own opinions about them. Attacks? gimmeabreak.
Get it straight, gimme. You're better that that.
again if you are addressing me i ask that you quote the post. i am not going to sit here all day and type longwinded replies that will not be addressed with anything other than an emoticon. especially if i don't know what i am replying to.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
CAJUNKIWI said: " If I see someone I know to be christian, I'll wish them a Merry Christmas. If I see someone I know to be jewish, I'll wish them a Happy Chanukah. If I have no idea, I'll play it safe and say "Happy Holidays." It's not a war as much as it's an acknowledgment that white christians aren't the only people in America."
WTF did you mean, kiwi? Own it.....
dude, it's quite obvious to me that you've taken that out of context. His point is that he knows that this isnt the only demographic that cares about holiday distinctions.
I disagree. The point was adequately made without the mention of color.
Ok, If thats how you see it.. just please save us the trouble and refrain from using 'bigot' AGAAAAIN!
CAJUNKIWI said: " If I see someone I know to be christian, I'll wish them a Merry Christmas. If I see someone I know to be jewish, I'll wish them a Happy Chanukah. If I have no idea, I'll play it safe and say "Happy Holidays." It's not a war as much as it's an acknowledgment that white christians aren't the only people in America."
WTF did you mean, kiwi? Own it.....
dude, it's quite obvious to me that you've taken that out of context. His point is that he knows that this isnt the only demographic that cares about holiday distinctions.
It doesn't surprise me that he took it out of context. Rational thinking doesn't appear to be his strong suit. I have a hunch he'll read my response and take that to mean I think ALL white Christians are up in arms over the War on Christmas, when I stated a number of times it seems to me to be a small minority. All I was trying to say is that saying "Happy Holidays" is an acknowledgment that there are a number of different celebrations taking place at this time of year. He took it and ran in a bizarre direction. This probably would've all been nipped in the bud if I'd simply said "It's not a war as much as it's an acknowledgment that Christmas isn't the only celebration taking place in December in America" - though both sentences mean exactly the same thing.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Comments
Yeah - I thought the rule of thumb was that if everyone was unhappy, then you were getting something done
It may mean nothing to YOU, but it sure as hell meant a lot to a lot of conservatives.
If the man's name and color of his skin had nothing to do with the right's hatred of him, then how else do you explain the birther movement, the signs depicting him as an African witch doctor, the fuss over his middle name, Fox referring to his wife as his "Baby Mama," the increase in the number of people joining hate groups, and the 400% increase in death threats he received over the amount Bush received? Clearly having an African American with a Muslim name in the Oval Office scared the shit out of a lot of people on the right. You may not be one of them, but they're not exactly an insignificant minority either.
Could you kindly provide proof and examples w/ links for things you are talking about.... its fascinating.
Okay - I'll pose the same questions to you that I posed to Electric_Delta (someone who is magically able to disagree with me on a regular basis in a civil manner).
Please go down this list, point by point, and explain how none of these issues are race-based:
1. The Birther Movement claims he was born overseas, despite there being no evidence to support their claim.
2. Signs carried by Tea Party members at rallies depicted him as an African witch doctor, complete with a bone through his nose.
3. During the election, opponents (both political and in the media) made a point of referring to him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, despite the fact that they don't do that for any other candidate.
4. Fox news referred to his wife as his "Baby Mama" and called a fist pump between he and Michelle Obama a "Terrorist fist-jab."
5. The FBI reported a sharp increase in the number of people joining hate groups like the KKK after his election, and he gets 4x as many death threats as Bush received in office. Not letters from disgruntled citizens telling him he's doing a bad job - letters from people saying they want to kill him.
Please feel free to use any language you like, though to me, personally, throwing the word "fuck" around on a regular basis doesn't make me any more likely to be swayed by your argument.
(and on point No. 3, I personally believe, for what it's worth, that when the local media in Louisiana made a point of referring to Bobby Jindal as Piyush Jindal they were being racist)
Confused by your quote, since that wasn't to you, was completely off-topic, and was yesterday.... :?
Not suprised by your reply though: Lacking any PROOF or LINKS or NEWS ARTICLES to support your statements.
Good luck. I'll check back later to see if you can provide any...
I see you can't respond to the questions posed to you...shocking...
http://www.newser.com/story/83902/obama ... hreat.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rvice.html
http://pubrecord.org/multimedia/4273/du ... tor-tells/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/1 ... 06655.html
"During a segment discussing conservative attacks against Michelle Obama, the wife of presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama, the network described the former as "Obama's baby mama.""
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... howing.php
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2009/ ... a_parties/
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi ... _violence/
"The paranoid rage, however, "has never been as finely tuned as this," he said. "They have a lightning rod in this case. We've never had a black president before.""
http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... acist.html
"As David Duke, a former Klan leader who was once a member of the Louisiana legislature, has said, Obama is a "visual aid" that galvanizes the white supremacist movement"
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-26/us/h ... s?_s=PM:US
"On the day after Obama's historic election, more than 2,000 people joined his Web site, a remarkable increase from the approximately 80 new members a day he was getting, Black said. His Web site, which was started in 1995, is one of the oldest and largest hate group sites. The site received so many hits that it crashed after election results were announced."
But no, you're right, I'm sure all of the anti-Obama rhetoric is based solely on actual, bona-fide, real policies. Like death panels.
My apologies for not being on this site 24 hours a day and not seeing the post yesterday. And for assuming that discussions cannot continue over a period of days. And for assuming that when people are discussing something on a public forum, anyone else is free to chime in with their thoughts.
Oh, and my apologies for taking longer than 15 minutes to provide the links you were looking for
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Yeah, according to the biased op-eds and usual HuffPo heresay you posted (sorry, but thinkprogress.org just doesn't cut it) it would appear that there is at least one person in the US that doesn't like Obama simply b/c he is black.
I can live with it. What's your point? That ALL people that disagree w/ Obamoron are racist?
That would make you a bigot. Again.
I'll save Best of Times the trouble of asking and provide the link:
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-04/poli ... M:POLITICS
Florida GOP Chairman Jim Greer released a statement this week accusing Obama of using taxpayer money to "indoctrinate" children.
"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology," Greer said.
all you do is ask for sources and ridicule them when people take the time out of their lives to try to educate you. all you have done on this forum is ask for links and then refute them based on your opinion with no links backing your position. you have done that to probaly 15 people on here, including myself. if you were interested in "reasonable debate" as you say you are, you would contribute instead of just attack and belittle and namecall...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
You can disagree with HuffPo all you want, but does that mean you don't believe the photographic evidence they provided? I'm still waiting for your point-by-point response, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that those things have no racial overtones whatsoever.
And no, I fully believe that many people who disagree with Obama do so because of his policies. But I also believe that there are also many people who disagree with him because he's an African American with Hussein for a middle name. The former aren't racist. The latter are. There is a distinction.
i was going to provide a link but i was expecting a link to counter it, which i am convinced i was not going to get.. i was not interested in posting something that would be automatically dismissed.
while i am at it, these other issues have not been attributed to other presidents and were based on fear and mistrust. how about all of the talk about reverend wright, his connection to that harvard professor, and the assertion that he was not experienced enough with his experience as a senator. that experience as a senator and his 2 years in office is more experience than his biggest critic on the matter, palin, who served 1/2 term as governor and resigned to whore herself out on the book and tv and twitter circuit.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
gimmesometruth:
I wasn't asserting any opinion, or trying to prove anything. I was asking for sources, and then formed my own opinions about them. Attacks? gimmeabreak.
Get it straight, gimme. You're better that that.
I wouldn't hold my breath. I've been waiting for birthers to prove Obama was born in Kenya for two years. I have a hunch I'll go to my grave waiting for that magical Kenyan birth certificate to appear. I'm also waiting for someone to show me where the Death Panels are in the healthcare bill. I'll go to my grave waiting for those too.
And, you know, nothing says biased liberal op-ed like an article from a conservative British newspaper
Yes, because referring to the president as "Obamoron" and calling me a racist because I honestly believe that some of the anti-Obama rhetoric is racially-motivated aren't personal attacks at all.
I have thick skin, so I really don't care one way or another if you like me or not, but if you're going to insult people, at least have the cojones to own up to it.
I know you guys are a little sensitive since your hope and change took the most historic beating of all time last November, but geez.... relax. It only took 30 years for your party to recover after Carter, and Obamoron is only twice that bad. You'll probably live to see a Dem President again... better start exercising.
can you please use the quote function appropriately? you are impossible to reply to when you don't.
i love how concescending you are. it makes me laugh
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Cajunkiwi: YOU made a racist slip-up when YOU injected WHITE into a discussion about religion. I have nothing to say to you until you respond.
Don''t be a coward. YOU SAID IT. Fucking own it. WHAT DID YOU MEAN?
The whole Palin thing cracks me up. During the campaign everyone on the right was firing criticisms at Obama because he was more of a celebrity than a politician. Then Palin quits as governor to do a TV show and a book deal, and the Tea Party worships her while Fox gives her ample airtime. Nope, no hypocrisy there. My wife is a Republican and she changes the channel as soon as Palin comes on (which isn't often, given that she refuses to watch Fox News too). She swears that if Palin wins the 2012 election (which is really about as likely as me, an actual foreigner with a birth certificate too prove it), then she'll be the first one in line to move overseas.
WTF did you mean, kiwi? Own it.....
dude, it's quite obvious to me that you've taken that out of context. His point is that he knows that this isnt the only demographic that cares about holiday distinctions.
I disagree. The point was adequately made without the mention of color.
I knew you couldn't go too many posts without dropping an F-bomb. Fucking good on ya.
What did I mean? Here's exactly what I meant:
1. I said the War on Christmas doesn't exist (my opinion).
2. Electric_Delta said he believed it did (his opinion).
3. I disagreed with him and said there is no war, just a public acknowledgment that there are multiple celebrations taking place at this time of year (again, my opinion).
4. I then proceeded to say that if I knew what religion someone belonged to, I would greet them with the appropriate phrase (Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah).
5. I also added that if I didn't know what religion someone belonged to, I'd play it safe and stick with Happy Holidays. It's a convenient catch-all, and when I say it I don't mean to disrespect anyone.
6. Despite there being a number of celebrations taking place at this time of year, I only listed two - Christmas and Chanukah - because, well, I don't have all day to provide an exhaustive list, and I didn't think it was that important that I do so.
7. I then went on to state that a lot of the people who believe there's a War on Christmas are white Christians who don't like the fact that the holiday isn't exclusively theirs anymore. That is my opinion, based on my observations of the people who believe the War on Christmas is real. While I have no idea what Electric_Delta looks like in real life, the only people I have ever personally seen complain about the War on Christmas are white Christians who don't like sharing their holiday season with African Americans (Kwanzaa), Muslims (Ramadan), and Jews (Chanukah). They never had a Menorah at their Christmas Tree-lighting ceremony growing up, and they resent its presence there now. I've never seen a Jewish person complain about a War on Chanukah, a Muslim complain about a War on Ramadan, or an African American complain about a War on Kwanzaa. But every December a handful of white Christians crawl out of the woodwork (not all, not even most, just a handful) and complain about a War on Christmas (that in my opinion doesn't exist), simply because they don't like having to share their holiday with other religions and cultures. I work for a state university, and we have a holiday celebration every year. Not a Christmas celebration. A holiday one. Why is it a holiday celebration and not a Christmas one? Because it involves multiple religions and cultures, and calling it a holiday celebration is a generic term that covers everyone. Yet every year, we hear comments that we hate Christmas because we don't call it a Christmas celebration. We don't hear from people saying we hate Chanukah and Kwanzaa because we don't call it a Chanukak celebration (that includes Christmas and Kwanzaa) or a Kwanzaa celebration (that includes Chanukah and Christmas). We only hear from people saying we hate Christmas. I'm not saying those protesters speak for the majority of white Christians (I seriously doubt they do), I'm just saying that it's been my experience that the only people who believe there's a War on Christmas fit that one particular ethnic group. And, for the record, the ones who explained WHY they think there's a War on Christmas have all provided the same reason - they resent the fact that other cultures and religions are included in "their" celebration.
Did I own it enough for you?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Ok, If thats how you see it.. just please save us the trouble and refrain from using 'bigot' AGAAAAIN!
Wow, I never thought about different COLORED Christians, and how only the white ones "feel" the "war on Christmas".
You're a real free-thinker, but I think I'll just keep the friends I have....
:wave:
It doesn't surprise me that he took it out of context. Rational thinking doesn't appear to be his strong suit. I have a hunch he'll read my response and take that to mean I think ALL white Christians are up in arms over the War on Christmas, when I stated a number of times it seems to me to be a small minority. All I was trying to say is that saying "Happy Holidays" is an acknowledgment that there are a number of different celebrations taking place at this time of year. He took it and ran in a bizarre direction. This probably would've all been nipped in the bud if I'd simply said "It's not a war as much as it's an acknowledgment that Christmas isn't the only celebration taking place in December in America" - though both sentences mean exactly the same thing.