Green Energy

whygohome

Well, I just switched from coal/nuclear as a source of energy to wind power. I am skeptical though, as I don't technically have wind power sent directly to my home; instead it is sent to the local grid.

So, if there are, for example's sake, 200 houses on the same grid, now there are 199 that use coal/nuclear and 1 that use wind. 199 to go.

Anyone else have a similar experience/situation?

Jason P

How does that work. Did you actively request the power company to charge you for the wind rate?

polaris_x

yeah ... my house is on bullfrog power ... but it's the same thing as you ... we just pay a utility provider for their renewable energy but ultimately, we are pulling from the same grid ...

whygohome

Jason P wrote:

How does that work. Did you actively request the power company to charge you for the wind rate?

Well, my energy company only delivers the energy. In other words, there are several options of the type of energy I can receive, but it is all delivered by this large company - I get a separate delivery charge, and then a usage charge. I was told that I have the option of receiving the actual energy form roughly 30 different sources, so I inquired about green energy and they told me about the Wind energy program:
http://www.nyseg.com/YourHome/newwinden ... fault.html

The link should clear everything up.

JonnyPistachio

whygohome wrote:

Well, I just switched from coal/nuclear as a source of energy to wind power. I am skeptical though, as I don't technically have wind power sent directly to my home; instead it is sent to the local grid.

So, if there are, for example's sake, 200 houses on the same grid, now there are 199 that use coal/nuclear and 1 that use wind. 199 to go.

Anyone else have a similar experience/situation?

That is awesome.
One thing that the US govt is doing that I can applaud is all the money that is being spent on renewable power. everywhere i look, see them dumping money into solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric. its awesome.
I live in south florida, and I am always suprised at how little solar power is used here, but it is becoming more affordable so i guess its just a matter of time. We gotta get off this oil.

Do you know where the actual wind farm is? is it close to your neighborhood?

Jeanwah

I do a similar program Whygo. I pay a very small difference to have the wind energy rather than fossil fuels. The more people that sign up, the cheaper the price gets. I think we only pay a usage charge, I'll have to re-check that.

whygohome

JonnyPistachio wrote:

whygohome wrote:

Well, I just switched from coal/nuclear as a source of energy to wind power. I am skeptical though, as I don't technically have wind power sent directly to my home; instead it is sent to the local grid.

So, if there are, for example's sake, 200 houses on the same grid, now there are 199 that use coal/nuclear and 1 that use wind. 199 to go.

Anyone else have a similar experience/situation?

That is awesome.
One thing that the US govt is doing that I can applaud is all the money that is being spent on renewable power. everywhere i look, see them dumping money into solar, wind, geothermal, and hydroelectric. its awesome.
I live in south florida, and I am always suprised at how little solar power is used here, but it is becoming more affordable so i guess its just a matter of time. We gotta get off this oil.

Do you know where the actual wind farm is? is it close to your neighborhood?

This is the company that owns the Wind Farm: http://www.communityenergyinc.com/.

The actual farm is in Northern Pennsylvania, which is not far from me - Southern Upstate NY.

whygohome

Jeanwah wrote:

I do a similar program Whygo. I pay a very small difference to have the wind energy rather than fossil fuels. The more people that sign up, the cheaper the price gets. I think we only pay a usage charge, I'll have to re-check that.

I forgot to mention that I pay for "blocks" of energy. It is $2.50 for each block, with each black being 100 kwh (kilowatt hours). I use an average of 200 kwh per month, so I buy 2 blocks. It is strange though, that they limit you to buying only what you use. if someone were rich, as I am not, they might feel like buying 5, 10, 15 blocks, which would be nice.

This is a start. I predict that in 10 years all new home is built will be equipped with some type of alternative energy source - solar panels on the roof, a bloom box in the side yard, and maybe even a wind farm nearby. it is going to be interesting to see who gets credit for it; i am hoping that Obama putting solar panels on the White House next year will be a good symbolic start.

tinkerbell

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_from_wellington/299583973/

This is in my backyard, the majority of the power used in NZ is from a renewable resource, hyrdo and geothermal are the main producers. The problem with renewable is that when first built they can put a huge strain on the environment. The hydro dams in the south island flooded areas and distroyed many habitats, the wind farms are creating noise pollution and aparantly (so my engineer brother tells me) use a huge amount of resources to make and maintain - leading to a large carbon foot print. I hope the trade off is worth it - I'm sure that it is a better option than coal or nuclear (NZ is nuclear free).

Cosmo

whygohome wrote:

Well, I just switched from coal/nuclear as a source of energy to wind power. I am skeptical though, as I don't technically have wind power sent directly to my home; instead it is sent to the local grid.

So, if there are, for example's sake, 200 houses on the same grid, now there are 199 that use coal/nuclear and 1 that use wind. 199 to go.

Anyone else have a similar experience/situation?

...
1 of 200... it's a start.
It's not going to happen over night... just like the automobile didn't replace the horse overnight.
...
Go t oHawaii and stay in one of those hotels up on the 15th floor and look out over the neighborhoods below. All of those roofs... with the Sun beating down on them all day. Wouldn't it be great if there were solar panels on them? Maybe not to 100% of the power... just a percentage to get us off of this black heroin and we can get the fuck out of the business of trying to influence the Middle East in our favor.

tinkerbell

Our government has started to subsidise the cost of installing solar panels on private roofs - although they are still out of reach of the average person as even with $1000 subsidy it is still around $7000. I work for an electrical company and we have just started to do some training in solar and eco electrical work - interesting stuff.

whygohome

tinkerbell wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peter_from_wellington/299583973/

This is in my backyard, the majority of the power used in NZ is from a renewable resource, hyrdo and geothermal are the main producers. The problem with renewable is that when first built they can put a huge strain on the environment. The hydro dams in the south island flooded areas and distroyed many habitats, the wind farms are creating noise pollution and aparantly (so my engineer brother tells me) use a huge amount of resources to make and maintain - leading to a large carbon foot print. I hope the trade off is worth it - I'm sure that it is a better option than coal or nuclear (NZ is nuclear free).

Yup. Still some drawbacks, but hopefully a good (and big) step in the right direction.

unsung

JonnyPistachio wrote:

That is awesome.
One thing that the US govt is doing that I can applaud is all the money that is being spent on renewable power.

Yeah awesome. Almost every internal part of these windmills is made in other countries. The Government needs to put its (my) money where its mouth is. Instead of "stimulating" the Chinese economy with long lasting jobs it should create them here. Windfarms are a wonderful idea in theory but the jobs they create are only temporary here in the US. How about building or rehabbing manufacturing facilities here and put some of the 10% back to work?

But hey if it makes you all warm and fuzzy that you are doing something good for your environment that's great. Just know that the Chinese environment is being destroyed instead. But hey, not in my backyard, right?

I'm not even going to get started on the CFL scam.

polaris_x

unsung wrote:

Yeah awesome. Almost every internal part of these windmills is made in other countries. The Government needs to put its (my) money where its mouth is. Instead of "stimulating" the Chinese economy with long lasting jobs it should create them here. Windfarms are a wonderful idea in theory but the jobs they create are only temporary here in the US. How about building or rehabbing manufacturing facilities here and put some of the 10% back to work?

But hey if it makes you all warm and fuzzy that you are doing something good for your environment that's great. Just know that the Chinese environment is being destroyed instead. But hey, not in my backyard, right?

I'm not even going to get started on the CFL scam.

my understanding is that most windmills are created in europe ... it is true that they should be manufactured locally but when you are a consumer based society - that isn't a priority is it ...

i would be interested in learning about the scam associated with compact flourescents ...

JonnyPistachio

unsung wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

That is awesome.
One thing that the US govt is doing that I can applaud is all the money that is being spent on renewable power.

Yeah awesome. Almost every internal part of these windmills is made in other countries. The Government needs to put its (my) money where its mouth is. Instead of "stimulating" the Chinese economy with long lasting jobs it should create them here. Windfarms are a wonderful idea in theory but the jobs they create are only temporary here in the US. How about building or rehabbing manufacturing facilities here and put some of the 10% back to work?

But hey if it makes you all warm and fuzzy that you are doing something good for your environment that's great. Just know that the Chinese environment is being destroyed instead. But hey, not in my backyard, right?

I'm not even going to get started on the CFL scam.

Like Cosmo said, this stuff isnt going to happen overnight. Europe has ben ahead of the US in renewable energy for awhile, so it doenst suprise me that many of the parts are manufactured there. If they've been doing it and its reliable(and the US can buy them), its a start. The jobs are increasing/will increase here too.

Regardless, it is a step in the right direction to eliminate some of our dependence on foreign oil. I'd much rather give a few European countries work with renewable resources engineering rather than making the middle east oil companies richer... so yeah it does make me pretty freakin warm and fuzzy inside.

unsung

Ok how is getting away from nuclear power in the US by using windfarms getting away from Mideast resources?

unsung

polaris_x wrote:

i would be interested in learning about the scam associated with compact flourescents ...

CFL bulbs are pretty much only made in China. There is not one company making them in the US. There is a law getting away from incandescent lighting here in the US (I can't quote it now as I am on my phone typing this).

Granted CFLs use less energy and you will save money on your electric bill but at what cost? They are filled with poison (Mercury) and they are not supposed to be thrown in the garbage. They are supposed to be taken to a special waste recycler.

So if they have mercury in them I can only imagine the problems they are causing the Chinese environment, well we all know that China is the model country for protecting the environment.

Green technology in theory is great but I only see the loss of US jobs.

unsung

Oh if anyone knows of a US or European CFL manufacturer please let me know.

JonnyPistachio

unsung wrote:

Ok how is getting away from nuclear power in the US by using windfarms getting away from Mideast resources?

I dont think anyone said anything about getting away from nuclear. I know there is a bit of controversy with nuclear and the growth of that field, but ultimately, my point is that the more the govt invests in renewable resources like wind, solar, hydroelectric, geothermal ... and possibly cleaner energy (like nuclear, and not sure, but clean coal tech)... someday, we will be less reliant on foreign oil.

polaris_x

unsung wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

i would be interested in learning about the scam associated with compact flourescents ...

CFL bulbs are pretty much only made in China. There is not one company making them in the US. There is a law getting away from incandescent lighting here in the US (I can't quote it now as I am on my phone typing this).

Granted CFLs use less energy and you will save money on your electric bill but at what cost? They are filled with poison (Mercury) and they are not supposed to be thrown in the garbage. They are supposed to be taken to a special waste recycler.

So if they have mercury in them I can only imagine the problems they are causing the Chinese environment, well we all know that China is the model country for protecting the environment.

Green technology in theory is great but I only see the loss of US jobs.

the mercury levels are lower than that of a thermometer used to measure body temperature ... yes, they need to be disposed of specially but so do batteries, cell phones and computers ...

the benefits of the cfl far outweigh the negatives in my opinion ... like i said before, i do believe they should be manufactured locally like many things but are we willing to pay for it ...

as for china - that is definitely an issue ... basically, it's a vicious cycle ... foreign countries take advantage of countries like china with low wages and low regulations to manufacture cheap products in order to satisfy a consumer demand ... everyone in that cycle is to blame ...

i don't see how CFL's should be singled out for this problem ...

tinkerbell

So lets debate the pros of consumables being produced locally... How may of you are prepared to pay $40 for one light bulb? Didn't think so... gotta love those little Chinese children...

Kel Varnsen

polaris_x wrote:

unsung wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

i would be interested in learning about the scam associated with compact flourescents ...

CFL bulbs are pretty much only made in China. There is not one company making them in the US. There is a law getting away from incandescent lighting here in the US (I can't quote it now as I am on my phone typing this).

Granted CFLs use less energy and you will save money on your electric bill but at what cost? They are filled with poison (Mercury) and they are not supposed to be thrown in the garbage. They are supposed to be taken to a special waste recycler.

So if they have mercury in them I can only imagine the problems they are causing the Chinese environment, well we all know that China is the model country for protecting the environment.

Green technology in theory is great but I only see the loss of US jobs.

the mercury levels are lower than that of a thermometer used to measure body temperature ... yes, they need to be disposed of specially but so do batteries, cell phones and computers ...

the benefits of the cfl far outweigh the negatives in my opinion ... like i said before, i do believe they should be manufactured locally like many things but are we willing to pay for it ...

As far as mercury goes, if the light bulb is being powered by a coal fired generator, there is more mercury released into the atmosphere from burning of the coal to generate the additional power needed to light a incandescent bulb over its lifespan then there is an a CFL bulb.

lukin2006

Where I live the cost of this so called green energy has doubled hydro bills in just five years and they will double again by 2030. If this is the cost of green energy no thanks. But unfortunately the current government has done irreparable damage to our economy and is just going to drive more manufacturing out, which is a huge part of our jobs, not to mention probably will cost us a lot of future investment.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

Where I live the cost of this so called green energy has doubled hydro bills in just five years and they will double again by 2030. If this is the cost of green energy no thanks. But unfortunately the current government has done irreparable damage to our economy and is just going to drive more manufacturing out, which is a huge part of our jobs, not to mention probably will cost us a lot of future investment.

really!? ... doubled!? ... where do you live? ... i'm pretty sure it's in ontario and i know hydro bills haven't doubled ... i really think your hate on for liberals is distorted ...

seriously, irreparable damage!? ... it's pretty clear that we need to transition our economy ... look at EVERY manufacturing town in north america and tell me they AREN'T all struggling ... we import everything from china now ... the reality is that ontario has done not too bad during this global financial crisis ... partly due to the strong financial sector in toronto ...

as for green energy ... the reality is that if you removed all the subsidies afforded traditional energy suppliers ... green energy would win every single time ... we haven't been paying the true cost of energy and that has led to our excessive ways and now we are paying for it ...

lukin2006

To call the mcspendy a liberal is an insult to all true liberals, liberals govern from the center, these clowns are far left and very incompetent. Paul Martin was a liberal, Trudeau was a liberal, mcspendy should be in the ndp.

polaris_x

lukin2006 wrote:

To call the mcspendy a liberal is an insult to all true liberals, liberals govern from the center, these clowns are far left and very incompetent. Paul Martin was a liberal, Trudeau was a liberal, mcspendy should be in the ndp.

hahaha ... calling mcguinty a lefty is an insult to lefties ... he's not even close to governing from the left ... i am going to postulate that you read a lot from right wing sources like sun media ...

so, can you show me how hydro rates have doubled? ... and do you have a comment about manufacturing in north america?

lukin2006

Actually there is a reason I don't quote you. I just post comments in general, I am allowed my opinion I've seen my hydro bills, , the liberals themselves have said hydro will go up up 46 percent in the next 5 years and double by 2030.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editoria ... er-problem

http://www.windsorstar.com/technology/O ... drop_story

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada ... story.html

If you think these green jobs are going to replace those manufacturing jobs lost since mcspendy came to power people are then dreaming.

But like I said, whatever, certain times you must agree to disagree and leave it at that.

polaris_x

ok ... so, the reality is that hydro rates have not doubled ... i know this because i am part of our energy management committee at my work ... in fact, rates have been quite low the past few years ...

where it goes another 2 decades from now is another matter ... but, your op-ed pieces from right wingers aside, it is clear that they haven't doubled in the most recent past ...

i won't get into plethora of mis-truths in the op-eds as that isn't the point of our discussion ...

i'm not saying green jobs will replace manufacturing jobs ... but to insinuate the declines of manufacturing in ontario is related to mcguinty is acutely false ... i would say the two main problems:

1. rise of the canadian dollar - you can thank harper for that
2. consumer choices

Kel Varnsen

lukin2006 wrote:

Actually there is a reason I don't quote you. I just post comments in general, I am allowed my opinion I've seen my hydro bills, , the liberals themselves have said hydro will go up up 46 percent in the next 5 years and double by 2030.

I heard them talking about that on the radio yesterday and it just made me think that even if rates do double in the next 20 years, if my house and the electrical stuff in it is not twice as efficient as it is now, then I kind of deserve to be paying twice as much.

tinkerbell

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I heard them talking about that on the radio yesterday and it just made me think that even if rates do double in the next 20 years, if my house and the electrical stuff in it is not twice as efficient as it is now, then I kind of deserve to be paying twice as much.

Well said!

lukin2006

My appliance's are energy efficient, but you do realize that some people can't afford to replace their appliance's every time there are newer standards, plus some people have to rent apartments that have hydro heat. But hey those folks don't, gotta keep the green folks happy.