Tax Cuts

fife

inmytree wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong

Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.

Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.

come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...

And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....

can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...

not really a fair comment about the rolls Royce. that sis not a necessity of life. but not having a place to live is more than just a car.

inmytree

Sludge Factory wrote:

Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".

You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.

We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.

I'm a big fan of the 4th amendment too...a police office can not randomly stop and search me (but that's being eroded over time) nor can they search my home unless they have a warrant...

I see this TSA search thing as different...you know what you're getting into when you buy your ticket to fly...you can't take a bottle of liquid over 3 oz...you walk through a metal detector...you have to take your shoes off...now, in some airports you have to go through a scanner...but you know that going in...

heck, I've been patted down going into concerts...and that's been going on for years...now all of the sudden being patted down is an issue...

inmytree

mikepegg44 wrote:

you are right, most cannot spend 200,000 on a car, but most can certainly go buy a car...if that is the case, and you firmly believe that all in the united states are free and that choices are relatively the same for everyone, no one should ever complain about access to resources again. money =/= freedom, but money and freedom are proportional related. If choice is your measure of freedom, than money and freedom are certainly proportional.
Choice doesn't seem to be your measure of freedom, but can you not see how it is someone else's. and just out of curiosity, what is your measure of freedom?

edited to add relatively - meant to have that in there

My measure of freedom...hmmm....good question....I guess I would say "doing what one wants within the law"...

You state that I think that choices are relatively the same for everyone, not necessarily true...I will say this, all have an opportunity to make choices...they also must be aware of the consequences of their choices...however, depending on where you are in life, your choices are different...

I hate to keep repeating myself, but the notion that paying taxes is somehow stealing ones freedom is silly to me...that's all..

inmytree

fife wrote:

inmytree wrote:

VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong

Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.

Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.

come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...

And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....

can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...

not really a fair comment about the rolls Royce. that sis not a necessity of life. but not having a place to live is more than just a car.

you're missing my point, my friend...

KDH12

prfctlefts wrote:

know1 and vinnygoomba are a breath of fresh air on this board. It's good to see that there are some on here that actually realize how bad things are right now and if we don't change directions were all screwed.

funny that you preach change

were you preaching change 5 years ago?

things are bad right now yes.... however it has taken 10+ years to get to this point.

Commy

we are all free in the United States....to the extent that we can pay for it.

KDH12

know1 wrote:

KDH12 wrote:

who would manage it better

buinsess? ummmm no, not when profit is the bottom dollar

you taxes have nothing to do with lessening freedom. but your taxes do pay for everything from Libraries to police/fire to mental health services

privatization is not the answer

I absolutely believe that business would manage money much, much better than the government.

One of the concepts that I base this on is that business doesn't have the POWER to just force people to give them more money to cover up their incompetence. They either do it right or they go out of business.

Our government has a great big safety net and no worries about being efficient.

It's laughable that anyone would think that the government can do ANYTHING more efficiently than the private sector.

I try not to look at it as money but instead I look at what I get for that money

and yes I agree that money is wasted

but if we had all basic functions of a society ran like a business we would get far less for our money or the cost of everything would actually go up. when profit is your motivation you figure out ways to provide less for more money.

banks are a perfect example. banks are privately owned and before now were minimally regulated. think about what banks do......nothing but keep our money safe. Sometimes they loan people some money requiring interest payments in return in order to make money. considering that is all they do I keep getting more and more mad that banks nickle and dime you for every services they provide. fees for everything, fees that keep going up.

No think if all services that are now provided by the government were ran like that.... we would be paying even more than we are now

Sludge Factory

inmytree wrote:

Sludge Factory wrote:

Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".

You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.

We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.

I'm a big fan of the 4th amendment too...a police office can not randomly stop and search me (but that's being eroded over time) nor can they search my home unless they have a warrant...

I see this TSA search thing as different...you know what you're getting into when you buy your ticket to fly...you can't take a bottle of liquid over 3 oz...you walk through a metal detector...you have to take your shoes off...now, in some airports you have to go through a scanner...but you know that going in...

heck, I've been patted down going into concerts...and that's been going on for years...now all of the sudden being patted down is an issue...

I sort of view the TSA search thing in a different light. It seems more and more they keep adding more invasive techniques. To compare the new current TSA "pat" down to the pat down you get before going to a concert is almost akin to comparing apples to oranges. They at one time were similar but that is no longer the case. We give an inch and over time it all ads up to them having turned it all into a mile...

Gern Blansten

Honestly unless you are over $1,000,000 the taxes won't make much of a difference

here's a good graphic

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/11/15 ... ems-chart/

I'm so sick of hearing the GOP say that this would tax small business....it won't

Remember that our taxes are based on profit....to say that a tax increase will affect jobs is ridiculous because the objective is to make a profit. Yes that profit might be less with a tax increase but if I will pocket $96 rather than $100 who cares?

Sludge Factory

inmytree wrote:

Sludge Factory wrote:

Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".

You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.

We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.

I'm a big fan of the 4th amendment too...a police office can not randomly stop and search me (but that's being eroded over time) nor can they search my home unless they have a warrant...

I see this TSA search thing as different...you know what you're getting into when you buy your ticket to fly...you can't take a bottle of liquid over 3 oz...you walk through a metal detector...you have to take your shoes off...now, in some airports you have to go through a scanner...but you know that going in...

heck, I've been patted down going into concerts...and that's been going on for years...now all of the sudden being patted down is an issue...

I think Ron Paul says it better than I ever could on how ridiculous this all is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwsdq69A ... _embedded#!

He does get hung up on the word "remove" though. :P