all I read here is complaining about taxes...that's it...
paying taxes is the cost of being a citizen of this country...if you don't care for that you are free to make a choice...as I've stated before, I wonder why folks how complain about the gov't don't simply move to the Gov't Free Paradise of Somalia...no gov't = utopia...
what happened to pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and quit blaming others...in this case the gov't is the others...
and the money = freedom thing is just plain stupid...please answer me this:
Is a poor person less free than a rich person...?
Hahaha..now man the love it or leave it crowd sure has changed.
Come on, Cincy, Who said anyone should leave...I asked why they don't...that's different...
A poor person has all the same rights as a rich person. A poor person may not have the same options as a rich person. Or does he? Maybe if the poor person refuses to work, he may have time where the rich guy spends his time working. Regardless, both have a right to do what they want with what they earn. If you read any of my posts, and it's clear that you haven't, I've already clearly stated that I support government, and totally prefer honest government that hasn't grown itself to the point where it intrudes on other people's lives, and become too large to be sustained. The role of government in this country clearly needs to be re-examined.
And bottom line, if you love throwing your money away, at any cost, because "that's the price of being a citizen," I'm cool with that. I personally like getting what I pay for, or at least close to it, and feel I shouldn't be subjected to the system that you clearly endorse, despite the fact that most of it is IS ILLEGAL, and actively does rob people of their rights and freedom. No one minds paying for positive results. I see more positive coming out of the private sector when competition is not stifled, and the playing field is level.
And the choice is NOT there to move where I want. Most of the other countries in the world that are worth moving to wouldn't grant citizenship to an American trying to live there. It must have something to do with a certain reputation that has proceeded us, thanks to, you guessed it, an out of control government.
People who love the government tend to hate monopolies. The irony? Government is the greatest monopoly there is.
Why do I even bother? Just do yourself a favor and just skip to this line: "ME NO LIKE TAXES! TAXES BAD! ALL TAXES BAD!"
lots to chew on in this ramble...
right vs. choices are different things...you seem to mashing them together to fit your argument...
as for your ILLEGAL comment...well, that's your opinion...which is not make it fact...
you go on again about rights and freedom being robbed from you...? what rights and freedom have you lost...just curious...
and what do you mean it's not a choice for you to move where you chose...the only person stopping is you and your excuses, which here means: it's the gov'ts fault....
I can answer that question. Poor people have less options. poor people can't live where they want, less options around medical assistance, less options around good education. I work with homeless people in toronto and they will tell you that money does = freedom. freedom of not freedom from.
just because one can't live were one wants doesn't mean they are not free from ever doing so...
the poor may not be able to do something that doesn't mean they are not free to ever do it...
you see, this notion of freedom = money is a ruse to complain about paying taxes...
many of those who do think the money = freedom are often champions of freedom...thus, I would think they would be ok with redistributing the freedom (money) to all...right...?
I think you have me wrong. I do agree that more money should be used to help the poor to get things that are essential such as adequate housing, education and health care. I'm from Canada where we pay alot of money in taxes and i don't mind as long as it goes to where it is needed. yes just because you can live where you want (which, which was not the right things to say, i meant more about having adequate housing not that everyone has the right to live in new york city) my response that i posted was answering your question about does a poor person have less freedom than i rich person which is a yes.
I can answer that question. Poor people have less options. poor people can't live where they want, less options around medical assistance, less options around good education. I work with homeless people in toronto and they will tell you that money does = freedom. freedom of not freedom from.
just because one can't live were one wants doesn't mean they are not free from ever doing so...
the poor may not be able to do something that doesn't mean they are not free to ever do it...
you see, this notion of freedom = money is a ruse to complain about paying taxes...
many of those who do think the money = freedom are often champions of freedom...thus, I would think they would be ok with redistributing the freedom (money) to all...right...?
I think you have me wrong. I do agree that more money should be used to help the poor to get things that are essential such as adequate housing, education and health care. I'm from Canada where we pay alot of money in taxes and i don't mind as long as it goes to where it is needed. yes just because you can live where you want (which, which was not the right things to say, i meant more about having adequate housing not that everyone has the right to live in new york city) my response that i posted was answering your question about does a poor person have less freedom than i rich person which is a yes.
I hear you...I apologize, some of my comments were aimed toward the general discussion and not aimed at you...
I guess it all comes down to how one defines freedom...I don't think freedom and money are the same thing...that's all...
I can answer that question. Poor people have less options. poor people can't live where they want, less options around medical assistance, less options around good education. I work with homeless people in toronto and they will tell you that money does = freedom. freedom of not freedom from.
just because one can't live were one wants doesn't mean they are not free from ever doing so...
the poor may not be able to do something that doesn't mean they are not free to ever do it...
you see, this notion of freedom = money is a ruse to complain about paying taxes...
many of those who do think the money = freedom are often champions of freedom...thus, I would think they would be ok with redistributing the freedom (money) to all...right...?
Do all people in the US have the same rights and freedoms...for the most part yes, but if one does not have resources to make choices are they not less free to do as they please? if I have a hundred dollars my choices for rental properties are severely limited, if I have a hundred thousand dollars I have multiple choices. Choices are what = freedom to me, and more money gives you more choices. The more money the federal government takes from me the less I am able to choose, and if the amount of choices I can make are what constitute freedom to me than am I not less free?
And by the way, you are right, taxes are the cost of being a citizen...I have no problem paying taxes to a government that does things they have the right to do granted to them by the constitution. States exist for a reason, the 10th amendment basically spells out exactly what states are supposed to be able to do, and that is the idea behind our government. Don't like what minnesota does, move to wisconsin...but the federal government acting like a state government is where things start to get muddy and a federal government becomes more and more oppressive with every resource they take to do things they shouldn't be doing.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
A poor person has all the same rights as a rich person. A poor person may not have the same options as a rich person. Or does he? Maybe if the poor person refuses to work, he may have time where the rich guy spends his time working. Regardless, both have a right to do what they want with what they earn. If you read any of my posts, and it's clear that you haven't, I've already clearly stated that I support government, and totally prefer honest government that hasn't grown itself to the point where it intrudes on other people's lives, and become too large to be sustained. The role of government in this country clearly needs to be re-examined.
And bottom line, if you love throwing your money away, at any cost, because "that's the price of being a citizen," I'm cool with that. I personally like getting what I pay for, or at least close to it, and feel I shouldn't be subjected to the system that you clearly endorse, despite the fact that most of it is IS ILLEGAL, and actively does rob people of their rights and freedom. No one minds paying for positive results. I see more positive coming out of the private sector when competition is not stifled, and the playing field is level.
And the choice is NOT there to move where I want. Most of the other countries in the world that are worth moving to wouldn't grant citizenship to an American trying to live there. It must have something to do with a certain reputation that has proceeded us, thanks to, you guessed it, an out of control government.
People who love the government tend to hate monopolies. The irony? Government is the greatest monopoly there is.
Why do I even bother? Just do yourself a favor and just skip to this line: "ME NO LIKE TAXES! TAXES BAD! ALL TAXES BAD!"
lots to chew on in this ramble...
right vs. choices are different things...you seem to mashing them together to fit your argument...
as for your ILLEGAL comment...well, that's your opinion...which is not make it fact...
you go on again about rights and freedom being robbed from you...? what rights and freedom have you lost...just curious...
and what do you mean it's not a choice for you to move where you chose...the only person stopping is you and your excuses, which here means: it's the gov'ts fault....
and finally, are you saying you no likey taxes...
I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong
Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.
Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.
Man, inmytree...you have all the answers. Let's all drive to HAWAII!
I'd rather take a boat...
when do you want to leave...?
I'm good, man. You go have fun, though. It's just your eagerness to so quickly give up your civil liberties that I find frustrating. It disgusts me because I know many others just like you.
Man, inmytree...you have all the answers. Let's all drive to HAWAII!
I'd rather take a boat...
when do you want to leave...?
I'm good, man. You go have fun, though. It's just your eagerness to so quickly give up your civil liberties that I find frustrating. It disgusts me because I know many others just like you.
damn, more drama...
sorry you're frustrated...Ann Coulter was frustrated by this arguement too...
I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong
Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.
Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.
come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...
And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong
Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.
Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.
come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...
And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
I can answer that question. Poor people have less options. poor people can't live where they want, less options around medical assistance, less options around good education. I work with homeless people in toronto and they will tell you that money does = freedom. freedom of not freedom from.
just because one can't live were one wants doesn't mean they are not free from ever doing so...
the poor may not be able to do something that doesn't mean they are not free to ever do it...
you see, this notion of freedom = money is a ruse to complain about paying taxes...
many of those who do think the money = freedom are often champions of freedom...thus, I would think they would be ok with redistributing the freedom (money) to all...right...?
Do all people in the US have the same rights and freedoms...for the most part yes, but if one does not have resources to make choices are they not less free to do as they please? if I have a hundred dollars my choices for rental properties are severely limited, if I have a hundred thousand dollars I have multiple choices. Choices are what = freedom to me, and more money gives you more choices. The more money the federal government takes from me the less I am able to choose, and if the amount of choices I can make are what constitute freedom to me than am I not less free?
And by the way, you are right, taxes are the cost of being a citizen...I have no problem paying taxes to a government that does things they have the right to do granted to them by the constitution. States exist for a reason, the 10th amendment basically spells out exactly what states are supposed to be able to do, and that is the idea behind our government. Don't like what minnesota does, move to wisconsin...but the federal government acting like a state government is where things start to get muddy and a federal government becomes more and more oppressive with every resource they take to do things they shouldn't be doing.
let me repeat...
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong
Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.
Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.
come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...
And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
Perhaps you can expound on this for me? I'm not sure what Ann Coulter's poor performance has to do with the fact that what repulses me is the erosion of our civil liberties and that so many people, such as yourself, find nothing wrong with this and are so quick to fall in line and accept it.
Perhaps you can expound on this for me? I'm not sure what Ann Coulter's poor performance has to do with the fact that what repulses me is the erosion of our civil liberties and that so many people, such as yourself, find nothing wrong with this and are so quick to fall in line and accept it.
I guess I don't see this as an erosion of my civil liberties...
you have a choice to fly or not fly...now there are conditions to flying that youdislike...
I don't like taking my shoes off when I fly, but I don't get all ACLU about it...
I hear you...I apologize, some of my comments were aimed toward the general discussion and not aimed at you...
I guess it all comes down to how one defines freedom...I don't think freedom and money are the same thing...that's all...
I don't think they are the same thing either, and if you'll go back to my comment that started this tangent, I said that it was one of the biggest ingredients to freedom.
That's not saying they are the same thing.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I hear you...I apologize, some of my comments were aimed toward the general discussion and not aimed at you...
I guess it all comes down to how one defines freedom...I don't think freedom and money are the same thing...that's all...
I don't think they are the same thing either, and if you'll go back to my comment that started this tangent, I said that it was one of the biggest ingredients to freedom.
That's not saying they are the same thing.
yes you said ingredient...then you said this: When the government continually tries to take more and more of it away from me, I lose freedom....
Perhaps you can expound on this for me? I'm not sure what Ann Coulter's poor performance has to do with the fact that what repulses me is the erosion of our civil liberties and that so many people, such as yourself, find nothing wrong with this and are so quick to fall in line and accept it.
I guess I don't see this as an erosion of my civil liberties...
you have a choice to fly or not fly...now there are conditions to flying that youdislike...
I don't like taking my shoes off when I fly, but I don't get all ACLU about it...
(for the record, I'm pro-ACLU)
Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".
You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.
We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.
just because one can't live were one wants doesn't mean they are not free from ever doing so...
the poor may not be able to do something that doesn't mean they are not free to ever do it...
you see, this notion of freedom = money is a ruse to complain about paying taxes...
many of those who do think the money = freedom are often champions of freedom...thus, I would think they would be ok with redistributing the freedom (money) to all...right...?
Do all people in the US have the same rights and freedoms...for the most part yes, but if one does not have resources to make choices are they not less free to do as they please? if I have a hundred dollars my choices for rental properties are severely limited, if I have a hundred thousand dollars I have multiple choices. Choices are what = freedom to me, and more money gives you more choices. The more money the federal government takes from me the less I am able to choose, and if the amount of choices I can make are what constitute freedom to me than am I not less free?
And by the way, you are right, taxes are the cost of being a citizen...I have no problem paying taxes to a government that does things they have the right to do granted to them by the constitution. States exist for a reason, the 10th amendment basically spells out exactly what states are supposed to be able to do, and that is the idea behind our government. Don't like what minnesota does, move to wisconsin...but the federal government acting like a state government is where things start to get muddy and a federal government becomes more and more oppressive with every resource they take to do things they shouldn't be doing.
let me repeat...
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
you are right, most cannot spend 200,000 on a car, but most can certainly go buy a car...if that is the case, and you firmly believe that all in the united states are free and that choices are relatively the same for everyone, no one should ever complain about access to resources again. money =/= freedom, but money and freedom are proportional related. If choice is your measure of freedom, than money and freedom are certainly proportional.
Choice doesn't seem to be your measure of freedom, but can you not see how it is someone else's. and just out of curiosity, what is your measure of freedom?
edited to add relatively - meant to have that in there
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong
Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.
Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.
come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...
And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
not really a fair comment about the rolls Royce. that sis not a necessity of life. but not having a place to live is more than just a car.
Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".
You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.
We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.
I'm a big fan of the 4th amendment too...a police office can not randomly stop and search me (but that's being eroded over time) nor can they search my home unless they have a warrant...
I see this TSA search thing as different...you know what you're getting into when you buy your ticket to fly...you can't take a bottle of liquid over 3 oz...you walk through a metal detector...you have to take your shoes off...now, in some airports you have to go through a scanner...but you know that going in...
heck, I've been patted down going into concerts...and that's been going on for years...now all of the sudden being patted down is an issue...
you are right, most cannot spend 200,000 on a car, but most can certainly go buy a car...if that is the case, and you firmly believe that all in the united states are free and that choices are relatively the same for everyone, no one should ever complain about access to resources again. money =/= freedom, but money and freedom are proportional related. If choice is your measure of freedom, than money and freedom are certainly proportional.
Choice doesn't seem to be your measure of freedom, but can you not see how it is someone else's. and just out of curiosity, what is your measure of freedom?
edited to add relatively - meant to have that in there
My measure of freedom...hmmm....good question....I guess I would say "doing what one wants within the law"...
You state that I think that choices are relatively the same for everyone, not necessarily true...I will say this, all have an opportunity to make choices...they also must be aware of the consequences of their choices...however, depending on where you are in life, your choices are different...
I hate to keep repeating myself, but the notion that paying taxes is somehow stealing ones freedom is silly to me...that's all..
I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong
Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.
Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.
come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...
And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
not really a fair comment about the rolls Royce. that sis not a necessity of life. but not having a place to live is more than just a car.
know1 and vinnygoomba are a breath of fresh air on this board. It's good to see that there are some on here that actually realize how bad things are right now and if we don't change directions were all screwed.
funny that you preach change
were you preaching change 5 years ago?
things are bad right now yes.... however it has taken 10+ years to get to this point.
buinsess? ummmm no, not when profit is the bottom dollar
you taxes have nothing to do with lessening freedom. but your taxes do pay for everything from Libraries to police/fire to mental health services
privatization is not the answer
I absolutely believe that business would manage money much, much better than the government.
One of the concepts that I base this on is that business doesn't have the POWER to just force people to give them more money to cover up their incompetence. They either do it right or they go out of business.
Our government has a great big safety net and no worries about being efficient.
It's laughable that anyone would think that the government can do ANYTHING more efficiently than the private sector.
I try not to look at it as money but instead I look at what I get for that money
and yes I agree that money is wasted
but if we had all basic functions of a society ran like a business we would get far less for our money or the cost of everything would actually go up. when profit is your motivation you figure out ways to provide less for more money.
banks are a perfect example. banks are privately owned and before now were minimally regulated. think about what banks do......nothing but keep our money safe. Sometimes they loan people some money requiring interest payments in return in order to make money. considering that is all they do I keep getting more and more mad that banks nickle and dime you for every services they provide. fees for everything, fees that keep going up.
No think if all services that are now provided by the government were ran like that.... we would be paying even more than we are now
Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".
You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.
We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.
I'm a big fan of the 4th amendment too...a police office can not randomly stop and search me (but that's being eroded over time) nor can they search my home unless they have a warrant...
I see this TSA search thing as different...you know what you're getting into when you buy your ticket to fly...you can't take a bottle of liquid over 3 oz...you walk through a metal detector...you have to take your shoes off...now, in some airports you have to go through a scanner...but you know that going in...
heck, I've been patted down going into concerts...and that's been going on for years...now all of the sudden being patted down is an issue...
I sort of view the TSA search thing in a different light. It seems more and more they keep adding more invasive techniques. To compare the new current TSA "pat" down to the pat down you get before going to a concert is almost akin to comparing apples to oranges. They at one time were similar but that is no longer the case. We give an inch and over time it all ads up to them having turned it all into a mile...
I'm so sick of hearing the GOP say that this would tax small business....it won't
Remember that our taxes are based on profit....to say that a tax increase will affect jobs is ridiculous because the objective is to make a profit. Yes that profit might be less with a tax increase but if I will pocket $96 rather than $100 who cares?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".
You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.
We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.
I'm a big fan of the 4th amendment too...a police office can not randomly stop and search me (but that's being eroded over time) nor can they search my home unless they have a warrant...
I see this TSA search thing as different...you know what you're getting into when you buy your ticket to fly...you can't take a bottle of liquid over 3 oz...you walk through a metal detector...you have to take your shoes off...now, in some airports you have to go through a scanner...but you know that going in...
heck, I've been patted down going into concerts...and that's been going on for years...now all of the sudden being patted down is an issue...
I think Ron Paul says it better than I ever could on how ridiculous this all is:
Comments
Come on, Cincy, Who said anyone should leave...I asked why they don't...that's different...
lots to chew on in this ramble...
right vs. choices are different things...you seem to mashing them together to fit your argument...
as for your ILLEGAL comment...well, that's your opinion...which is not make it fact...
you go on again about rights and freedom being robbed from you...? what rights and freedom have you lost...just curious...
and what do you mean it's not a choice for you to move where you chose...the only person stopping is you and your excuses, which here means: it's the gov'ts fault....
and finally, are you saying you no likey taxes...
I think you have me wrong. I do agree that more money should be used to help the poor to get things that are essential such as adequate housing, education and health care. I'm from Canada where we pay alot of money in taxes and i don't mind as long as it goes to where it is needed. yes just because you can live where you want (which, which was not the right things to say, i meant more about having adequate housing not that everyone has the right to live in new york city) my response that i posted was answering your question about does a poor person have less freedom than i rich person which is a yes.
I hear you...I apologize, some of my comments were aimed toward the general discussion and not aimed at you...
I guess it all comes down to how one defines freedom...I don't think freedom and money are the same thing...that's all...
Do all people in the US have the same rights and freedoms...for the most part yes, but if one does not have resources to make choices are they not less free to do as they please? if I have a hundred dollars my choices for rental properties are severely limited, if I have a hundred thousand dollars I have multiple choices. Choices are what = freedom to me, and more money gives you more choices. The more money the federal government takes from me the less I am able to choose, and if the amount of choices I can make are what constitute freedom to me than am I not less free?
And by the way, you are right, taxes are the cost of being a citizen...I have no problem paying taxes to a government that does things they have the right to do granted to them by the constitution. States exist for a reason, the 10th amendment basically spells out exactly what states are supposed to be able to do, and that is the idea behind our government. Don't like what minnesota does, move to wisconsin...but the federal government acting like a state government is where things start to get muddy and a federal government becomes more and more oppressive with every resource they take to do things they shouldn't be doing.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I've figured it out with your help, inmytree... It's a locale problem that I'm suffering from, and I do need to fix it myself. I'm moving from Downstate NY to that bubble you live in, where apparently far less than 50% of your income solves all the world's problems, and the government does no wrong
Seriously though, the point of all my "ranting" was nothing more than what I see everyday in both mainstream media and alternative media: The government spends far more than it takes in, and even if it took in 100% of what everyone makes, it still would not be enough to cover what it actually spends. The unnecessary spending is on everything from wars to welfare, benefits special interests above everyone else, and has limited some very intentionally broad definitions of "free speech," the right to private property, to right to be secure in our persons, the right to a trial by jury, and the rights of the states to have power over the Federal Government. I don't know how you don't see it this way, but you don't.
Agree to disagree, and take solace in the fact that your way of thinking is currently winning in the grand scheme of things.
I'm good, man. You go have fun, though. It's just your eagerness to so quickly give up your civil liberties that I find frustrating. It disgusts me because I know many others just like you.
damn, more drama...
sorry you're frustrated...Ann Coulter was frustrated by this arguement too...
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=144055
come on down, vinnie...you'd love it...I'm from upstate new york and don't ever plan on going back...It's going to be 70 degrees and sunny tomorrow...if you're a drinkin' man, the first couple are on me when you get here...
And yes, lets agree to disagree...I think this argument has been going on for decades and will continue after we are long gone...sure the gov't spends...it spends on lots of things we don't even know about...we've got about 308 million people in this country and nothing will please them all at the same time...all I see lately is negativity...it seems like lots of folks are upset about something and that they have all the answers (no say you, just a general statement)....
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
Where you from?
let me repeat...
can I go by a new Rolls Royce today...nope...that doesn't mean I'm not free...it just means I can't get what I want...that's all...I except that...lots of folks seem unable to do that (not you, just a general statement)...
my mama....
sorry, I couldn't resist...I love that one...
Born in Elmira NY, raised in Horseheads, NY....
I've been to NC once. Chapel Hill. I loved it.
next time, hit the coast...you'll love that too...
I guess I don't see this as an erosion of my civil liberties...
you have a choice to fly or not fly...now there are conditions to flying that youdislike...
I don't like taking my shoes off when I fly, but I don't get all ACLU about it...
(for the record, I'm pro-ACLU)
I don't think they are the same thing either, and if you'll go back to my comment that started this tangent, I said that it was one of the biggest ingredients to freedom.
That's not saying they are the same thing.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
yes you said ingredient...then you said this: When the government continually tries to take more and more of it away from me, I lose freedom....
anyway, I'm glad we got that cleared up...
Thanks, I guess that's where I differ from you. I do see it as an erosion of my civil liberties. To me it breaks the guarantee put forth in the Constitution that we are to be free from unwarranted search and seizure and flips the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" around to "guilty until proven innocent".
You are right, you do have a choice to fly or not to fly; however, your choice to fly is a contract between you and the airline you are doing business with, not the government. Yet the government gets to mandate how the airlines go about running their business by taking control over their security measures which is wrong in my opinion and according to how private enterprise is supposed to work.
We do actually have something in common though, as I am pro-ACLU as well...however I think your stance is different than theirs on this...not saying I expect you to agree with everything they do as there are some things I don't agree with them about at times as well.
you are right, most cannot spend 200,000 on a car, but most can certainly go buy a car...if that is the case, and you firmly believe that all in the united states are free and that choices are relatively the same for everyone, no one should ever complain about access to resources again. money =/= freedom, but money and freedom are proportional related. If choice is your measure of freedom, than money and freedom are certainly proportional.
Choice doesn't seem to be your measure of freedom, but can you not see how it is someone else's. and just out of curiosity, what is your measure of freedom?
edited to add relatively - meant to have that in there
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I'm a big fan of the 4th amendment too...a police office can not randomly stop and search me (but that's being eroded over time) nor can they search my home unless they have a warrant...
I see this TSA search thing as different...you know what you're getting into when you buy your ticket to fly...you can't take a bottle of liquid over 3 oz...you walk through a metal detector...you have to take your shoes off...now, in some airports you have to go through a scanner...but you know that going in...
heck, I've been patted down going into concerts...and that's been going on for years...now all of the sudden being patted down is an issue...
My measure of freedom...hmmm....good question....I guess I would say "doing what one wants within the law"...
You state that I think that choices are relatively the same for everyone, not necessarily true...I will say this, all have an opportunity to make choices...they also must be aware of the consequences of their choices...however, depending on where you are in life, your choices are different...
I hate to keep repeating myself, but the notion that paying taxes is somehow stealing ones freedom is silly to me...that's all..
you're missing my point, my friend...
funny that you preach change
were you preaching change 5 years ago?
things are bad right now yes.... however it has taken 10+ years to get to this point.
I try not to look at it as money but instead I look at what I get for that money
and yes I agree that money is wasted
but if we had all basic functions of a society ran like a business we would get far less for our money or the cost of everything would actually go up. when profit is your motivation you figure out ways to provide less for more money.
banks are a perfect example. banks are privately owned and before now were minimally regulated. think about what banks do......nothing but keep our money safe. Sometimes they loan people some money requiring interest payments in return in order to make money. considering that is all they do I keep getting more and more mad that banks nickle and dime you for every services they provide. fees for everything, fees that keep going up.
No think if all services that are now provided by the government were ran like that.... we would be paying even more than we are now
I sort of view the TSA search thing in a different light. It seems more and more they keep adding more invasive techniques. To compare the new current TSA "pat" down to the pat down you get before going to a concert is almost akin to comparing apples to oranges. They at one time were similar but that is no longer the case. We give an inch and over time it all ads up to them having turned it all into a mile...
here's a good graphic
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/11/15 ... ems-chart/
I'm so sick of hearing the GOP say that this would tax small business....it won't
Remember that our taxes are based on profit....to say that a tax increase will affect jobs is ridiculous because the objective is to make a profit. Yes that profit might be less with a tax increase but if I will pocket $96 rather than $100 who cares?
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I think Ron Paul says it better than I ever could on how ridiculous this all is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwsdq69A ... _embedded#!
He does get hung up on the word "remove" though. :P