Switch the presidential terms of Bush and Obama...

Hugh Freaking Dillon

BinauralJam wrote:

i have been drinking tonight , so i may be over thinking this. at least in this point.

when I drink I usually UNDERthink things.

BinauralJam

Paul David wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

i have been drinking tonight , so i may be over thinking this. at least in this point.

when I drink I usually UNDERthink things.

it's been a good night. lots of roc an roll.

KDH12

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

Obama wouldnt have had holidays all year

that is a good point

I don't think that Obama has had a single vacation in two years, by this the second year of the Bush's first term he had probably racked up 4-6 months of R&R.

Gary Carter

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

Obama wouldnt have had holidays all year leading up to 9/11 so he would have been on top off the security issue. saying that It may still have happened. we would invade Afganistan then without the iraq diversion troops and hardware would have focused on afganistan. Defeating the taliban. Killing OSAMA BIN LADEN. who would have been found due to the fact that he had kidney issues and was on dialisis and would have been found promptly.
I reality we wasted our power on Iraq letting Afganistan slide to where it is today,
also no Gauntanimo and no torture. with The USA's right to retaliate the world would see the whole thing as a country defending itself. Not oil tycoons grabbing more wells
Not having the head of Haliburtron and all the neocons would have meant that parties who all along said that Iraq didnt have WMD's would have been listened to more. An attack would not have taken place.

clinton had a chance to get osama and never did but i guess he get's a pass huh. i guess the first wtc attack wasn't a hint for billy boy now was it, :roll:. but yea go ahead and blame bush cause it's the popular thing to do, :roll:. why don't you blame the presidents before bush for not looking at the warning signs that were there.

catefrances

Paul David wrote:

like I said, they are warned of "imminent threats" on an almost daily basis. do you have any idea how difficult it would be to discern the real threats from the false ones? you make it sound like pointing out a redneck in a gay bar. unless you have nearly foolproof intelligence, which no one does these days, it would be absolutely impossible to respond to all possible threats. what you are asking of the government to implement amounts to not only Big Brother, but Big Fuckin' Tyrannical Bully. With that type of paranoia comes that type of civil liberties taken away from you.

if i had difficulty separating the wheat from the chaff so to speak, clearly im not the only one.

no its not like spotting a redneck in a gay bar, as you so eloquently put it... but id be thinking hmm ok weve got a threat here from al qaeda. someone has already tried to bring the WTC down once before. we have knowledge of al qaeda not to mention previous attacks attributed to them. maybe just maybe we need to take this threat seriously. so how well do that is watch and wait. well add no more security. we wont pay a little bit more attention to those passengers who could quite possibly be affiliated with al qaeda. but after the event well show the world security footage of the hijackers going through airport security. and well put air marshall on our planes after the horse has bolted just in case someone slips through security and tries to hijack another plane with the plastic fork they give you with your meal.
anyhoo i dont think its a simple as im making it seem and i dont think its as difficult as youre making it out to be.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

catefrances wrote:

anyhoo i dont think its a simple as im making it seem and i dont think its as difficult as youre making it out to be.

I can't even begin to comprehend how difficult the job of international intelligence would be. I think it's MUCH more difficult than even I'm making it out to be.

I fault Bush for invading Iraq. I don't fault Bush for 9/11.

Smellyman

all the security in the world can't protect you from what 10 guys in a their mom's basement can plan. --Jon Stewart (something like that).

What was worse was the gigantic fuck up Bush did following 9/11. He stood on the rubble and said we are going to kick ass or something blah blah blah. Had the US and the world rallying behind him and he pissed it away. He could've helped galvinize the world. Instead he made the world much worse today than on 9/12/2001.

I would've preferred Pauly Shore as Prez that day and Christine O Donnel as VP.

TriumphantAngel

BinauralJam wrote:

Paul David wrote:

so in essence you are excusing racism and/or racial/religious profiling. gotcha.

Well Paul i didn't mean to. i have an idea about evolution, which leads me to believe that our differences should be celebrated not censored.

i do understand i have a unique point of veiw, and am not looking to argue.
i'm just giving you my point of view.

your point of view is far from unique.

sadly it's the same point of view held by so many Americans who have learnt nothing from their racist behaviour in the past. absolutely nothing. Americans are in denial if they think racism is a thing of the past because it's not. all the bigots have done is shift their hatred from Native Americans to African Americans to Latin Americans and now to Arab Americans.

who's next?

gimmesometruth27

TriumphantAngel wrote:

your point of view is far from unique.

sadly it's the same point of view held by so many Americans who have learnt nothing from their racist behaviour in the past. absolutely nothing. Americans are in denial if they think racism is a thing of the past because it's not. all the bigots have done is shift their hatred from Native Americans to African Americans to Latin Americans and now to Arab Americans.

who's next?

don't forget asian americans during WWII.

the question should be "who is left?"

BinauralJam

TriumphantAngel wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Paul David wrote:

so in essence you are excusing racism and/or racial/religious profiling. gotcha.

Well Paul i didn't mean to. i have an idea about evolution, which leads me to believe that our differences should be celebrated not censored.

i do understand i have a unique point of veiw, and am not looking to argue.
i'm just giving you my point of view.

your point of view is far from unique.

sadly it's the same point of view held by so many Americans who have learnt nothing from their racist behaviour in the past. absolutely nothing. Americans are in denial if they think racism is a thing of the past because it's not. all the bigots have done is shift their hatred from Native Americans to African Americans to Latin Americans and now to Arab Americans.

who's next?

i think your hearing what you want to hear and are imposing you expectations on me.

TriumphantAngel

BinauralJam wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

your point of view is far from unique.

sadly it's the same point of view held by so many Americans who have learnt nothing from their racist behaviour in the past. absolutely nothing. Americans are in denial if they think racism is a thing of the past because it's not. all the bigots have done is shift their hatred from Native Americans to African Americans to Latin Americans and now to Arab Americans.

who's next?

i think your hearing what you want to hear and are imposing you expectations on me.

the expectations i have are that all Americans should be treated equally.

but that doesn't happen does it?. and clearly you have issues with it. proof by your comment a few pages back. which is why we are even having this conversation.

it's not hearing what i want to hear. it's responding to something you said.

BinauralJam

i dont limit myself to american, i think we are all basically animals and have the capacity for evil as well as good, which is why i made the observation i did. you seem to keep trying to define me into your terms.

i don't hope to convince you or anybody of anything, i'm just stating my opinion.

which is, we are as different as we are the same and i mean all 6 billion of us, this i think needs to be addressed at some point by humans.

TriumphantAngel

BinauralJam wrote:

i dont limit myself to american, i think we are all basically animals and have the capacity for evil as well as good, which is why i made the observation i did. you seem to keep trying to define me into your terms.

i don't hope to convince you or anybody of anything, i'm just stating my opinion.

which is, we are as different as we are the same and i mean all 6 billion of us, this i think needs to be addressed at some point by humans.

you are making no sense at all. on one hand you are talking above about all people having the capacity for evil as well as good and yet you want to single out ONE group of people? if you think we are basically ALL animals, why would you single single out just ONE group of people?

BinauralJam wrote:

Last time i got on a plane was two years ago, of out Lagaudia, which i believe was one of the airports the hijackers came from, what struck me as funny was ALL of the security guards and i do mean ALL of them were Middle Eastern. I don't know what they were back in 2001, but disconcerning to say the least.

BinauralJam wrote:

Because i'm worried there gona let there cousin through, ya know with a bomb. There are a few other races in N.Y., perhaps mix it up.

BinauralJam

i think i can answer this. because i wasn't making a point about drunk irish people at a bar, i was making a point about middle eastern people guarding airports.

i do hope that helps.

as an example.

TriumphantAngel

BinauralJam wrote:

i think i can answer this. because i wasn't making a point about drunk irish people at a bar, i was making a point about middle eastern people guarding airports.

i do hope that helps.

as an example.

that's just a sad comment. sad because you are not alone with how you feel. i'm just wasting my time.

they are Americans guarding your airports.

you don't see them as that though.

BinauralJam

TriumphantAngel wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

i think i can answer this. because i wasn't making a point about drunk irish people at a bar, i was making a point about middle eastern people guarding airports.

i do hope that helps.

as an example.

that's just a sad comment. sad because you are not alone with how you feel. i'm just wasting my time.

they are Americans guarding your airports.

you don't see them as that though.

i didn't mean to upset you. i've read lots of your posts, your a very postive person, i do admire that. i'm just different.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

one question:

do you believe what you said about Middle Easterners not being trustworthy airport security is racist?

BinauralJam wrote:

i didn't mean to upset you. i've read lots of your posts, your a very postive person, i do admire that. i'm just different.

BinauralJam

Paul David wrote:

one question:

do you believe what you said about Middle Easterners not being trustworthy airport security is racist?

BinauralJam wrote:

i didn't mean to upset you. i've read lots of your posts, your a very postive person, i do admire that. i'm just different.

Paul, why do i feel like i'm walking into a trap here...

Yes, but when your the one getting on that plane, these things stand out. i did follow it up with the mix it up comment, it's N.Y. we got everybody here.

i mean in other walks of life, other professions if all of one race were doing one job, people would point and say thats racists.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

no no no, I wasn't trying to trap you; I'm trying to understand your comment. Fine, I can see if your point of view is that of racial equality, but you stated very clearly that you are afraid that they will let their cousin on the plane with a bomb. To me that's racial bias.

Let me put it to you this way. A young guy and his family move to the Middle East. He's an up-and-coming architect, with a big job promotion designing some new buildings. This is 1998. He's established in the community, lots of friends, well liked, etc.

Three years later, 9/11 happens, but in reverse, over in the mid-east. The President of the USA has ordered an unprovoked attack on their soil. Thousands of civilians die. Now this man and his wife and children stand out like a sore thumb. Everyone and their dog now views any Westerners as a potential enemy and someone to be feared. He loses his job. He's harassed in the street. He's a peace loving man who only sought out a promotion for his career and adventure for his family.

Now he's Enemy #1 where he lives. He's afraid to go out of his house. His own friends now don't even speak to him, for fear of being labelled a sympathizer.

Can you imagine being in that situation, especially when you didn't do a damn thing to cause it??

Why anyone would want to contribute to that sort of hate is beyond me.

BinauralJam wrote:

Paul, why do i feel like i'm walking into a trap here...

Yes, but when your the one getting on that plane, these things stand out. i did follow it up with the mix it up comment, it's N.Y. we got everybody here.

i mean in other walks of life, other professions if all of one race were doing one job, people would point and say thats racists.

BinauralJam

Well your right, i'd be pissed if i was that guy. You've given me something to think about, i treat everybody good, but i do admit to thinking things about people. there's not like a button i can push to turn that off.