To all those who have served or are currently serving and to those who made the ultimate sacrifice, God bless you and Thank You for your service! OORAH!
In special memory of Gy/Sgt William Saunders 5/23/24-9/6/88
30 years in his Corp
"My Uncle(25 yrs Navy retired) use to say to my Dad, Bill you know the Marine Corp is just part of the Navy and my Dad would fire back, ya the BEST part! Miss them both today and every day
I love your tribute, it was beautiful and moving and I understand your pride and how much you miss them both.
I'm sorry for the disrespectful way you were treated, its embarrassing, really borderline appalling that the people here would use your tribute to voice their antiwar opinions.
Most people are antiwar, wouldn't we all love to live in bliss. Gee I can't even find loving compassionate people in everyday life, how will we ever get rid of war?
We can't blame those that choose to serve for the war that is created by the greedy and the powerful.
Someday when the war is in your own backyard you may be glad there are brave people who have been trained to save your sorry asses.
Bless your Father and Uncle and all those that have served and continue to serve.
I pray for the revelation that will lead us to fight those we should be fighting
so there will be peace on earth someday.
it's not a popular move to voice anti war opinion around here. i get that. i'm not here to be popular. believe it or not i'm speaking out so your loved ones don't get killed or maimed at some bullshit war.
some of you may be right behind the US Government and their thirst for power at any cost, and are apparently unconcerned with actions ultimately motivated by greed and the insatiable lust for power but i'm not.
like i've already said, and i'm sorry it's hurt your feelings, you simply cannot be against the war and say you support the troops and then want to thank them because that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take.
and as i've already said, blindly lending support to soldiers will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the fuckers who sent them there, and who might one day want to send them somewhere else.
i'll always support, and continue to campaign for, their need for hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return to their families and loved ones.
pity some of you weren't as outraged by your governments actions that got you to where it is now as what you are with the people speaking out against it.
if you were, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.
i can't thank them for serving in something i don't believe in but i am sorry for your loss. more than you could know
We can't blame those that choose to serve for the war that is created by the greedy and the powerful.
you can't fight wars without willing participants.
I respect and understand your opinion and know you have a beautiful heart.
We all would love a peaceful world.
The wars are created by men that want more, more power, more money, more land, more.
The people who serve in the forces join to protect their countries. They believe in their country, in their freedom, in protecting their loved ones, my loved ones and those being taken advantage of.
In a perfect world we would fight the men that live only for more.
We would be free from greed. Our forces would then not be needed.
We are so far from a perfect world that what you are saying can not happen.
Our world is a mess with power hungry men, and the greed is everywhere.
Maybe someday, in the meantime I believe the people serving should not be blamed for our wars.
They should be honored
We can't blame those that choose to serve for the war that is created by the greedy and the powerful.
you can't fight wars without willing participants.
Maybe someday, in the meantime I believe the people serving should not be blamed for our wars.
They should be honored
I would respectfuly disagree on that. Everyone has a choice, soldiers included and many didn't agree with the war in Iraq and would rather be imprisoned or live in exile then be in a position to conduct unjust wars (with everything that entails) or be apart of the mechanism that is working towards that end. If you begin shooting or dropping bombs on other human beings and you don't look at yourself, question it and believe in it right then what on earth does that make you? Ending lives just because your superior officer said so? Has killing become that apathetic? It's not right just because they wear a uniform.
Of course there have been many soldiers who have given their lives for just causes and many have done good work outside of the combat zone and they should be applauded as I believe the original point of this thread was.
We can't blame those that choose to serve for the war that is created by the greedy and the powerful.
you can't fight wars without willing participants.
Read my original post I in no way advocate any War, it was about honoring my Dad and USMC, not war. I know the use of our military should be the last resort.However what is your answer, is it disband our military or go back to being a British Colony? As I have said again and again, if not for "willing participants" during WW2 the world would be a differnt place, and unless your pro-Nazi and anti-semectic, which I do not believe Europe would be a Nazi Nation w/ a whole ethnic group wiped from face of earth.The entire Pacific region including Hawaii would be under the control of Japan.You are right to dispise war, I do as well, but to not support our service men & woman is not right.
11/5/91: Troy NY "I Just Want to SCREAM... HELLO!"
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
We can't blame those that choose to serve for the war that is created by the greedy and the powerful.
you can't fight wars without willing participants.
I respect and understand your opinion and know you have a beautiful heart.
We all would love a peaceful world.
The wars are created by men that want more, more power, more money, more land, more.
The people who serve in the forces join to protect their countries. They believe in their country, in their freedom, in protecting their loved ones, my loved ones and those being taken advantage of.
In a perfect world we would fight the men that live only for more.
We would be free from greed. Our forces would then not be needed.
We are so far from a perfect world that what you are saying can not happen.
Our world is a mess with power hungry men, and the greed is everywhere.
Maybe someday, in the meantime I believe the people serving should not be blamed for our wars.
They should be honored
when in the last 50 years has our freedom and our way of life ever been remotely threatened??? i am dead serious, can someone give me an example of how our way of life has been threatened???
i love how people say they are "defending my freedom" when the only time my personal freedoms have ever been threatened was by my own government when the patriot act was passed and renewed. there is not a foreign army that can come here and take away my freedom, but my own government can take it away.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
you can't fight wars without willing participants.
I respect and understand your opinion and know you have a beautiful heart.
We all would love a peaceful world.
The wars are created by men that want more, more power, more money, more land, more.
The people who serve in the forces join to protect their countries. They believe in their country, in their freedom, in protecting their loved ones, my loved ones and those being taken advantage of.
In a perfect world we would fight the men that live only for more.
We would be free from greed. Our forces would then not be needed.
We are so far from a perfect world that what you are saying can not happen.
Our world is a mess with power hungry men, and the greed is everywhere.
Maybe someday, in the meantime I believe the people serving should not be blamed for our wars.
They should be honored
when in the last 50 years has our freedom and our way of life ever been remotely threatened??? i am dead serious, can someone give me an example of how our way of life has been threatened???
i love how people say they are "defending my freedom" when the only time my personal freedoms have ever been threatened was by my own government when the patriot act was passed and renewed. there is not a foreign army that can come here and take away my freedom, but my own government can take it away.
totally agree with that but who is behind your government? and that is my point exactly, the true power is whom we should be fighting. The ones who profit from the war.
totally agree with that but who is behind your government? and that is my point exactly, the true power is whom we should be fighting. The ones who profit from the war.
you said they were defending our freedom, and i took issue with that assertion, because it is completely bogus.
what i want to know is specific instances in the last 50 years where our FREEDOM and our way of life has been threatened. i am asking anyone to explain to me how my freedom needs defending, how it is threatened, and how our mission in the middle east is defending my freedom.
the only thing i can think of is the cuban missile crisis and that was defused through diplomacy, not militarily..
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
totally agree with that but who is behind your government? and that is my point exactly, the true power is whom we should be fighting. The ones who profit from the war.
you said they were defending our freedom, and i took issue with that assertion, because it is completely bogus.
what i want to know is specific instances in the last 50 years where our FREEDOM and our way of life has been threatened. i am asking anyone to explain to me how my freedom needs defending, how it is threatened, and how our mission in the middle east is defending my freedom.
the only thing i can think of is the cuban missile crisis and that was defused through diplomacy, not militarily..
Actually this is what I said.....
'The people who serve in the forces join to protect their countries. They believe in their country, in their freedom, in protecting their loved ones, my loved ones and those being taken advantage of.'
That's pretty noble and to risk ones life too...sorry you can't see that.
What we all have to remember is this... War is basically old men, ordering young men to go and kill another old man's young men. That the ones who are tasked to fight wars are usually the one who pray the hardest for peace.
And I agree... if you are going to sit on the sidelines, wetting you panties as you beat the drums of war that someone else has to fight... you need to actuallty DO something for the men and women you are willing to send out. This goes beyond the yellow manget that was made in China you stick on the back of your car... GIVE something... time, money... sacrifice a little for the ones you are willing to sacrifice their lives. Words mean NOTHING.... Saying 'I Support The Troops' means jack fucking shit, unless you actually DO something.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I find it really interesting that no one can answer the question I have asked several times, whats your answer, we all would Love to live in a world where no one has to go to War. Also no one has answer for the WW2, should we have let Hitler have all of europe and surrendered to Japan after Pearl Harber? That is why I tried to Honor my Dad that is where he was and anyone here who thinks those Marines and other servicemen did not shape the world we live in fairly free and easy, they better go back to school and retake history or watch the history channel. I have from the start denounced cuurent military policy as most all have, and folks want to believe they are safer w/o the Marine Corp around thats your business, but I will vote to keep them as I do not get the feeling those Shiting on my Fathers memory and service to your country have the moxy to defend it if need be. Also,from all those concerned for our guys and gals and their agreed poor treatment upon returning home it seems I am the only one doing anything for them, I figured the PM's would be pouring in from all the concern.You can talk the talk, but no one wants to walk the walk.Again Thanks to those who understood my post and their support to those who did not get involved or atleast have reasonable alternative.
11/5/91: Troy NY "I Just Want to SCREAM... HELLO!"
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
What we all have to remember is this... War is basically old men, ordering young men to go and kill another old man's young men. That the ones who are tasked to fight wars are usually the one who pray the hardest for peace.
And I agree... if you are going to sit on the sidelines, wetting you panties as you beat the drums of war that someone else has to fight... you need to actuallty DO something for the men and women you are willing to send out. This goes beyond the yellow manget that was made in China you stick on the back of your car... GIVE something... time, money... sacrifice a little for the ones you are willing to sacrifice their lives. Words mean NOTHING.... Saying 'I Support The Troops' means jack fucking shit, unless you actually DO something.
same can be said for the anti-war people now can it
if the american people didn't elect greedy assholes who care nothing bout lining their pockets then we(america) wouldn't be in all these "wars" the past 50 years. it doesn't matter weather your pro war or anti-war or dem or repub the point is we the people have failed this country. maybe just maybe if we stopped electing assholes who due nothing but abuse their power we would actually be a model country for the world and not some war hungry country that sends young americans off to die for nothing but rich peoples pockets.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I find it really interesting that no one can answer the question I have asked several times, whats your answer, we all would Love to live in a world where no one has to go to War. Also no one has answer for the WW2, should we have let Hitler have all of europe and surrendered to Japan after Pearl Harber? That is why I tried to Honor my Dad that is where he was and anyone here who thinks those Marines and other servicemen did not shape the world we live in fairly free and easy, they better go back to school and retake history or watch the history channel. I have from the start denounced cuurent military policy as most all have, and folks want to believe they are safer w/o the Marine Corp around thats your business, but I will vote to keep them as I do not get the feeling those Shiting on my Fathers memory and service to your country have the moxy to defend it if need be. Also,from all those concerned for our guys and gals and their agreed poor treatment upon returning home it seems I am the only one doing anything for them, I figured the PM's would be pouring in from all the concern.You can talk the talk, but no one wants to walk the walk.Again Thanks to those who understood my post and their support to those who did not get involved or atleast have reasonable alternative.
...
Actually... if we lived in a world where no one has to go to war... it would mean there wouldn't have been a Hitler or a Pearl Harbor.
And most people don't have a problem with war when it is necessary... it when there is war because of choosing to go to war, that people like me get pissed. I hate our military used as sacrificial pawns for asshole politician douchebags or to protect the interest of American companys.
...
As for me... well you can find me at L.A.X. some weekends manning the USO Station, where we help soldiers make connecting flights, get ground transportation or just hand out a bag of Doritos or Oreos. Or sometimes, down Camp Pendleton way to hit up the surplus store and anonymously paying the ticket for the booth of Marines across the way. Sure, it ain't much... but it is something. I feel that even though I think our Middle East campaigns are useless shit and it's time to admit our major fuck up and leave... that our leaders are fucking cowards and that those cheerleading assholes are.... assholes. It doesn't stop me from actually doing something.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Also no one has answer for the WW2, should we have let Hitler have all of europe and surrendered to Japan after Pearl Harber? .
I'm guessing from the views expressed in this thread that most people would've taken the stance England took under Chamberlain. Its all about diplomacy and here he is in 1938 holding up the peace agreement with Germany.
Actually... if we lived in a world where no one has to go to war... it would mean there wouldn't have been a Hitler or a Pearl Harbor.
And most people don't have a problem with war when it is necessary... it when there is war because of choosing to go to war, that people like me get pissed. I hate our military used as sacrificial pawns for asshole politician douchebags or to protect the interest of American companys.
...
Also,from all those concerned for our guys and gals and their agreed poor treatment upon returning home it seems I am the only one doing anything for them, I figured the PM's would be pouring in from all the concern.You can talk the talk, but no one wants to walk the walk.
i do plenty when it comes to actively participating in things that i feel help those less fortunate than me.
just because i don't talk about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and i'm sure there's plenty of others who do too in one way or another.
it's not about talking ourselves up. it's not about us. it's about them.
you simply cannot be against the war and say you support the troops and then want to thank them because that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take.
Glad to see you're not one of the sheep that blindly follow Ed and the rest of the band on this subject, although I've never thought of them as lame and gutless, but that's just my opinion.
you simply cannot be against the war and say you support the troops and then want to thank them because that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take.
Glad to see you're not one of the sheep that blindly follow Ed and the rest of the band on this subject, although I've never thought of them as lame and gutless, but that's just my opinion.
most of us dp our own research and can think for ourselves and do not need ed and the band to make our opinions for us.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I find it really interesting that no one can answer the question I have asked several times, whats your answer, we all would Love to live in a world where no one has to go to War. Also no one has answer for the WW2, should we have let Hitler have all of europe and surrendered to Japan after Pearl Harber? That is why I tried to Honor my Dad that is where he was and anyone here who thinks those Marines and other servicemen did not shape the world we live in fairly free and easy, they better go back to school and retake history or watch the history channel. I have from the start denounced cuurent military policy as most all have, and folks want to believe they are safer w/o the Marine Corp around thats your business, but I will vote to keep them as I do not get the feeling those Shiting on my Fathers memory and service to your country have the moxy to defend it if need be. Also,from all those concerned for our guys and gals and their agreed poor treatment upon returning home it seems I am the only one doing anything for them, I figured the PM's would be pouring in from all the concern.You can talk the talk, but no one wants to walk the walk.Again Thanks to those who understood my post and their support to those who did not get involved or atleast have reasonable alternative.
...
Actually... if we lived in a world where no one has to go to war... it would mean there wouldn't have been a Hitler or a Pearl Harbor.
And most people don't have a problem with war when it is necessary... it when there is war because of choosing to go to war, that people like me get pissed. I hate our military used as sacrificial pawns for asshole politician douchebags or to protect the interest of American companys.
...
As for me... well you can find me at L.A.X. some weekends manning the USO Station, where we help soldiers make connecting flights, get ground transportation or just hand out a bag of Doritos or Oreos. Or sometimes, down Camp Pendleton way to hit up the surplus store and anonymously paying the ticket for the booth of Marines across the way. Sure, it ain't much... but it is something. I feel that even though I think our Middle East campaigns are useless shit and it's time to admit our major fuck up and leave... that our leaders are fucking cowards and that those cheerleading assholes are.... assholes. It doesn't stop me from actually doing something.
I agree with everything you said, but we can not change history. Hitler and Pearl Harbor did happen to no fault of my Dad and the other young men who voluntered to go 1000's miles from their home and families to do something about it, and that should be honored and respected, and that was all I wanted to do. Nothing political or even regarding present Gov policy in middle east. I applaud your efforts and time and I am sure it is appreciated as i know the little things are so important to these guys/gals coming home or deploying. I enjoy visiting the Arms Forces Retirement Homes, mostly just chatting with old WW2 & korean Vets. I know they appreciate not being forgotten. By the way my comments about getting involved were not directed at you. God Bless and keep up the good work, we need more like you. I actually visited Camp Pendleton with my Dad for a Chosin Few reunion, I was 16 or 17 and see him in his Glory with old buddies from Korea where they help over 50,000 Korean cilvilians evacuate to coast of S.Korea.
Peace
11/5/91: Troy NY "I Just Want to SCREAM... HELLO!"
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
Also,from all those concerned for our guys and gals and their agreed poor treatment upon returning home it seems I am the only one doing anything for them, I figured the PM's would be pouring in from all the concern.You can talk the talk, but no one wants to walk the walk.
i do plenty when it comes to actively participating in things that i feel help those less fortunate than me.
just because i don't talk about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and i'm sure there's plenty of others who do too in one way or another.
it's not about talking ourselves up. it's not about us. it's about them.
Good for you. As far as me "talking myself up", if read the whole thread I was responding to someone telling me to do something(see below).The original idea was just to honor my Dad and others like him on this special day for him aand many, many others.I would never disrespect anyones family member, no matter my personal beliefs, as mine have by some here today, I hope that's not "talking myself up", just defending the memory and legacy of best man I ever knew, as I hope any son or daughter would!
if you really want to thank them, save the "rah rah rahs" and call your congressman and demand that the federal government pay to take care of those that come back maimed, paralyzed, and wracked with mental illness and PTSD and traumatic brain injury. our marines deserve better than what they are getting. if the government can pay to send them into harm's way they had better damn well pay to take care of them when they get home.
Post edited by keepnfaith44 on
11/5/91: Troy NY "I Just Want to SCREAM... HELLO!"
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
Also,from all those concerned for our guys and gals and their agreed poor treatment upon returning home it seems I am the only one doing anything for them, I figured the PM's would be pouring in from all the concern.You can talk the talk, but no one wants to walk the walk.
i do plenty when it comes to actively participating in things that i feel help those less fortunate than me.
just because i don't talk about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and i'm sure there's plenty of others who do too in one way or another.
it's not about talking ourselves up. it's not about us. it's about them.
Good for you. As far as me "talking myself up", if read the whole thread I was responding to someone telling to do something(see below).The original idea was jus to honor my Dad and others like him on this special day for him aand many, many others.
if you really want to thank them, save the "rah rah rahs" and call your congressman and demand that the federal government pay to take care of those that come back maimed, paralyzed, and wracked with mental illness and PTSD and traumatic brain injury. our marines deserve better than what they are getting. if the government can pay to send them into harm's way they had better damn well pay to take care of them when they get home.
i was addressing that comment to all of the war cheerleaders that have been on this forum since 2003 that are all about supporting the war, yet don't want to fund the war or fund the care of those coming back home. that is why i said "save the rah rah rahs". i was telling THEM to call their congressmen.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I don't think any one particular service field or occupation automatically deems respect... just like any group, there's some good, some bad and some indifferent. Just like most things in life, acting like a good, decent human being is someone I would say exemplify these traits. We don't need religions, occupations or any other broad sweeping ideologies to understand basic ideals and morals we as a society or world can say are worthy of such terms and traits. Lastly, everyone loves to throw around these generic and broad sweeping ideas to hone in on some group in society (not just soldiers).. we have parades, ribbons, flags, groups and associations all to tell us how their little group, culture, occupation or similar is great and everyone is so overly proud .. especially to the point of creating over-sensitivity when one everyone doesn't get representation or recognition. At what point does all this stuff just boil down to the idea of being too proud with ourselves? Pride goeth before the fall.
And in terms of the poster who keeps bringing up WW2 and the Nazi's to somehow equate our well being today, well, it's misplaced. And to be honest, you could say the same of about tons of other significant historical occurrences in past, of which many with far from moral, altruistic or noteworthy. Also, if we're gonna have an open discussion about handing out such respect and similar, does this go for everyone who serves their nation as a solider and if so, what do you say about the people on the other side (and no I'm not just talking bout some extreme example like the Nazis)? I hardly say most of you would deem it in the same manner for enemies even though it's the same on the other side.
FiveB247, with all due respect I see you have used words like, Respect,Altruism,Vality and Righteous to mention a few. In your opinion what garners these praises, if not our service men and woman then what in your opinion makes you these things. I am having a hard time understanding what these words mean to you. I know and have expressed what some of them mean to me, my Dad and helping our Veterans?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Also,from all those concerned for our guys and gals and their agreed poor treatment upon returning home it seems I am the only one doing anything for them, I figured the PM's would be pouring in from all the concern.You can talk the talk, but no one wants to walk the walk.
i do plenty when it comes to actively participating in things that i feel help those less fortunate than me.
just because i don't talk about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and i'm sure there's plenty of others who do too in one way or another.
it's not about talking ourselves up. it's not about us. it's about them.
Good for you. As far as me "talking myself up", if read the whole thread I was responding to someone telling me to do something(see below).The original idea was just to honor my Dad and others like him on this special day for him aand many, many others.I would never disrespect anyones family member, no matter my personal beliefs, as mine have by some here today, I hope that's not "talking myself up", just defending the memory and legacy of best man I ever knew, as I hope any son or daughter would!
if you really want to thank them, save the "rah rah rahs" and call your congressman and demand that the federal government pay to take care of those that come back maimed, paralyzed, and wracked with mental illness and PTSD and traumatic brain injury. our marines deserve better than what they are getting. if the government can pay to send them into harm's way they had better damn well pay to take care of them when they get home.
i'm sorry if it came across like that to you. i was talking in general about the reasons some people stay silent. i in no way meant to imply you personally were talking yourself up.
i admire and respect the work you are doing when they come home.
so why are you saying that many died to allow commy to express his opinion? if freedom of speech has not been threatened, then nobody died trying to protect that right.
Our freedoms have not been threatened because of the forward actions of our uniformed soldiers. Had it not been for their sacrifices, many things would be different today. America has never been backed into a corner which has allowed our freedoms to remain throughout the years. We have the military to thank for this.
so why are you saying that many died to allow commy to express his opinion? if freedom of speech has not been threatened, then nobody died trying to protect that right.
How would you feel if someone said that about your father, no matter their personal view or politics? that is more than an opinion IMO, it is disrespectful and mean spirited when all I intended to do was honor him on this day that was special to him. I obviously made the mistake of feeling I could come here where I have felt able to be open and honest, and always respectful of others and just honor my Dad and maybe receive some support on a a tough day for me and my family, nothing more. I have a feeling if it was your father or mother you may see it a little different. It's sad people can not differentiate an attempt to remember, honor and share with how they feel about something my father or really any of us have any control over, so what do you do shit on a dead Marine and his memory. Thanks to all who made my day so much different than I imagined when I started the post.Wish I could erase it, really wish I could talk to my Dad.
11/5/91: Troy NY "I Just Want to SCREAM... HELLO!"
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
i do plenty when it comes to actively participating in things that i feel help those less fortunate than me.
just because i don't talk about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and i'm sure there's plenty of others who do too in one way or another.
it's not about talking ourselves up. it's not about us. it's about them.[/quote]
Good for you. As far as me "talking myself up", if read the whole thread I was responding to someone telling me to do something(see below).The original idea was just to honor my Dad and others like him on this special day for him aand many, many others.I would never disrespect anyones family member, no matter my personal beliefs, as mine have by some here today, I hope that's not "talking myself up", just defending the memory and legacy of best man I ever knew, as I hope any son or daughter would!
if you really want to thank them, save the "rah rah rahs" and call your congressman and demand that the federal government pay to take care of those that come back maimed, paralyzed, and wracked with mental illness and PTSD and traumatic brain injury. our marines deserve better than what they are getting. if the government can pay to send them into harm's way they had better damn well pay to take care of them when they get home.[/quote]
i'm sorry if it came across like that to you. i was talking in general about the reasons some people stay silent. i in no way meant to imply you personally were talking yourself up.
i admire and respect the work you are doing when they come home.[/quote]
Thanks and no problem!
PEACE
11/5/91: Troy NY "I Just Want to SCREAM... HELLO!"
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
Comments
I'm sorry for the disrespectful way you were treated, its embarrassing, really borderline appalling that the people here would use your tribute to voice their antiwar opinions.
Most people are antiwar, wouldn't we all love to live in bliss. Gee I can't even find loving compassionate people in everyday life, how will we ever get rid of war?
We can't blame those that choose to serve for the war that is created by the greedy and the powerful.
Someday when the war is in your own backyard you may be glad there are brave people who have been trained to save your sorry asses.
Bless your Father and Uncle and all those that have served and continue to serve.
I pray for the revelation that will lead us to fight those we should be fighting
so there will be peace on earth someday.
you can't fight wars without willing participants.
some of you may be right behind the US Government and their thirst for power at any cost, and are apparently unconcerned with actions ultimately motivated by greed and the insatiable lust for power but i'm not.
like i've already said, and i'm sorry it's hurt your feelings, you simply cannot be against the war and say you support the troops and then want to thank them because that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take.
and as i've already said, blindly lending support to soldiers will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the fuckers who sent them there, and who might one day want to send them somewhere else.
i'll always support, and continue to campaign for, their need for hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return to their families and loved ones.
pity some of you weren't as outraged by your governments actions that got you to where it is now as what you are with the people speaking out against it.
if you were, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation right now.
i can't thank them for serving in something i don't believe in but i am sorry for your loss. more than you could know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUBYI97cUgU
We all would love a peaceful world.
The wars are created by men that want more, more power, more money, more land, more.
The people who serve in the forces join to protect their countries. They believe in their country, in their freedom, in protecting their loved ones, my loved ones and those being taken advantage of.
In a perfect world we would fight the men that live only for more.
We would be free from greed. Our forces would then not be needed.
We are so far from a perfect world that what you are saying can not happen.
Our world is a mess with power hungry men, and the greed is everywhere.
Maybe someday, in the meantime I believe the people serving should not be blamed for our wars.
They should be honored
I would respectfuly disagree on that. Everyone has a choice, soldiers included and many didn't agree with the war in Iraq and would rather be imprisoned or live in exile then be in a position to conduct unjust wars (with everything that entails) or be apart of the mechanism that is working towards that end. If you begin shooting or dropping bombs on other human beings and you don't look at yourself, question it and believe in it right then what on earth does that make you? Ending lives just because your superior officer said so? Has killing become that apathetic? It's not right just because they wear a uniform.
Of course there have been many soldiers who have given their lives for just causes and many have done good work outside of the combat zone and they should be applauded as I believe the original point of this thread was.
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
i love how people say they are "defending my freedom" when the only time my personal freedoms have ever been threatened was by my own government when the patriot act was passed and renewed. there is not a foreign army that can come here and take away my freedom, but my own government can take it away.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
you said they were defending our freedom, and i took issue with that assertion, because it is completely bogus.
what i want to know is specific instances in the last 50 years where our FREEDOM and our way of life has been threatened. i am asking anyone to explain to me how my freedom needs defending, how it is threatened, and how our mission in the middle east is defending my freedom.
the only thing i can think of is the cuban missile crisis and that was defused through diplomacy, not militarily..
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
'The people who serve in the forces join to protect their countries. They believe in their country, in their freedom, in protecting their loved ones, my loved ones and those being taken advantage of.'
That's pretty noble and to risk ones life too...sorry you can't see that.
And I agree... if you are going to sit on the sidelines, wetting you panties as you beat the drums of war that someone else has to fight... you need to actuallty DO something for the men and women you are willing to send out. This goes beyond the yellow manget that was made in China you stick on the back of your car... GIVE something... time, money... sacrifice a little for the ones you are willing to sacrifice their lives. Words mean NOTHING.... Saying 'I Support The Troops' means jack fucking shit, unless you actually DO something.
Hail, Hail!!!
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
if the american people didn't elect greedy assholes who care nothing bout lining their pockets then we(america) wouldn't be in all these "wars" the past 50 years. it doesn't matter weather your pro war or anti-war or dem or repub the point is we the people have failed this country. maybe just maybe if we stopped electing assholes who due nothing but abuse their power we would actually be a model country for the world and not some war hungry country that sends young americans off to die for nothing but rich peoples pockets.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Actually... if we lived in a world where no one has to go to war... it would mean there wouldn't have been a Hitler or a Pearl Harbor.
And most people don't have a problem with war when it is necessary... it when there is war because of choosing to go to war, that people like me get pissed. I hate our military used as sacrificial pawns for asshole politician douchebags or to protect the interest of American companys.
...
As for me... well you can find me at L.A.X. some weekends manning the USO Station, where we help soldiers make connecting flights, get ground transportation or just hand out a bag of Doritos or Oreos. Or sometimes, down Camp Pendleton way to hit up the surplus store and anonymously paying the ticket for the booth of Marines across the way. Sure, it ain't much... but it is something. I feel that even though I think our Middle East campaigns are useless shit and it's time to admit our major fuck up and leave... that our leaders are fucking cowards and that those cheerleading assholes are.... assholes. It doesn't stop me from actually doing something.
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm guessing from the views expressed in this thread that most people would've taken the stance England took under Chamberlain. Its all about diplomacy and here he is in 1938 holding up the peace agreement with Germany.
thank you.
the voice of reason. again.
just because i don't talk about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and i'm sure there's plenty of others who do too in one way or another.
it's not about talking ourselves up. it's not about us. it's about them.
Glad to see you're not one of the sheep that blindly follow Ed and the rest of the band on this subject, although I've never thought of them as lame and gutless, but that's just my opinion.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
:thumbup:
I agree with everything you said, but we can not change history. Hitler and Pearl Harbor did happen to no fault of my Dad and the other young men who voluntered to go 1000's miles from their home and families to do something about it, and that should be honored and respected, and that was all I wanted to do. Nothing political or even regarding present Gov policy in middle east. I applaud your efforts and time and I am sure it is appreciated as i know the little things are so important to these guys/gals coming home or deploying. I enjoy visiting the Arms Forces Retirement Homes, mostly just chatting with old WW2 & korean Vets. I know they appreciate not being forgotten. By the way my comments about getting involved were not directed at you. God Bless and keep up the good work, we need more like you. I actually visited Camp Pendleton with my Dad for a Chosin Few reunion, I was 16 or 17 and see him in his Glory with old buddies from Korea where they help over 50,000 Korean cilvilians evacuate to coast of S.Korea.
Peace
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
if you really want to thank them, save the "rah rah rahs" and call your congressman and demand that the federal government pay to take care of those that come back maimed, paralyzed, and wracked with mental illness and PTSD and traumatic brain injury. our marines deserve better than what they are getting. if the government can pay to send them into harm's way they had better damn well pay to take care of them when they get home.
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
And in terms of the poster who keeps bringing up WW2 and the Nazi's to somehow equate our well being today, well, it's misplaced. And to be honest, you could say the same of about tons of other significant historical occurrences in past, of which many with far from moral, altruistic or noteworthy. Also, if we're gonna have an open discussion about handing out such respect and similar, does this go for everyone who serves their nation as a solider and if so, what do you say about the people on the other side (and no I'm not just talking bout some extreme example like the Nazis)? I hardly say most of you would deem it in the same manner for enemies even though it's the same on the other side.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i'm sorry if it came across like that to you. i was talking in general about the reasons some people stay silent. i in no way meant to imply you personally were talking yourself up.
i admire and respect the work you are doing when they come home.
Our freedoms have not been threatened because of the forward actions of our uniformed soldiers. Had it not been for their sacrifices, many things would be different today. America has never been backed into a corner which has allowed our freedoms to remain throughout the years. We have the military to thank for this.
9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
How would you feel if someone said that about your father, no matter their personal view or politics? that is more than an opinion IMO, it is disrespectful and mean spirited when all I intended to do was honor him on this day that was special to him. I obviously made the mistake of feeling I could come here where I have felt able to be open and honest, and always respectful of others and just honor my Dad and maybe receive some support on a a tough day for me and my family, nothing more. I have a feeling if it was your father or mother you may see it a little different. It's sad people can not differentiate an attempt to remember, honor and share with how they feel about something my father or really any of us have any control over, so what do you do shit on a dead Marine and his memory. Thanks to all who made my day so much different than I imagined when I started the post.Wish I could erase it, really wish I could talk to my Dad.
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT
just because i don't talk about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and i'm sure there's plenty of others who do too in one way or another.
it's not about talking ourselves up. it's not about us. it's about them.[/quote]
Good for you. As far as me "talking myself up", if read the whole thread I was responding to someone telling me to do something(see below).The original idea was just to honor my Dad and others like him on this special day for him aand many, many others.I would never disrespect anyones family member, no matter my personal beliefs, as mine have by some here today, I hope that's not "talking myself up", just defending the memory and legacy of best man I ever knew, as I hope any son or daughter would!
if you really want to thank them, save the "rah rah rahs" and call your congressman and demand that the federal government pay to take care of those that come back maimed, paralyzed, and wracked with mental illness and PTSD and traumatic brain injury. our marines deserve better than what they are getting. if the government can pay to send them into harm's way they had better damn well pay to take care of them when they get home.[/quote]
i'm sorry if it came across like that to you. i was talking in general about the reasons some people stay silent. i in no way meant to imply you personally were talking yourself up.
i admire and respect the work you are doing when they come home.[/quote]
Thanks and no problem!
PEACE
8/4/92:Saratoga NY 4/6/94:Mass 9/13/98:CT
8/27/2000:Saratoga NY,10/04/2000:Montreal,Canada
04/29/03:Albany, 5/12/06:Albany NY,10/31/09:Philly,5/15/10Hartford CT