Let's not pretend this occurrence was a surprise as it wasn''t anything more than common practice in the industry which had a happy ending. I for one an happy as the next person for their outcome, but let's not forsake that with the reality of the situation. The people will be back in the mines next week risking their lives for the same reasons as the reasons that led them down their this week. As per many of your view point of the "human side" of the story... I wish no one ill will but anything they bring upon themselves. So if miners of their own free will, why call it anything more than what it is?? Seems like many of you want to praise them for their own risk before hand, yet ignore their haphazard after the fact. Reap what you sow in life. Don't play in traffic and then complain when cars are coming your way...right?
Also, I choose not to get wrapped up in the pretend caring of media stories. It's simply a fabrication of reality in order to bring forth a specific false and fake emotion and reaction. This is a simple case of that. How many of you were so concerned from the Chilean earthquake, compared to this self-inflicted problem? Don't chop at me for be callous when most of you are nitpicking problems to defend.
well I work in the mining inddustry, my company was involved in the machinary used to get them out, not my sector Im softrock not hard rock like these guys were in. these people were trapped. and through clever engineering they were rescued. its a bloody great thing that these people survived. great for other in the future whos rescuers will reference this rescue, will use techniques and technologies developed over the last few weeks/months.
You in your area may have great variety in choice, some are not so lucky, Dont base others life on your own.
I'm simply saying this is a calculated risk they took by taking such a job and the media over emphasizes such results to emulate said results. Nothing more, nothing less. We see it sensationalized in our media for the positive, but no real lesson, experience or details are learned as a result. Instead in emphasizes a false sense of security in the industry and world for dangerous jobs without ever examining the necessity of why such mines exist, or the meaning of their success (if you could call it that). The Chilean Earthquake was catastrophic, yet no one can even remember such a thing, and this minuscule, self-inflicted event occurred effected 30 something people, and it's "news". It's a joke and quickly frankly insulting to the realities of the problems of this nation and nothing more than a media circus for our benefit. People in our half of the world seem to forget that fact..
I really don't get you. Are you trying to say it's their own fault that they were in this situation? That they could have avoided it by not going to work? That, because they live in an area where there is not much work besides mining (which is a job that someone needs to do), they should let their families starve? So their free will would be choosing between mining and food or no mining and no food. A lot of people work in risky jobs - should these jobs not be done?
On the other hand, a cave diver has been trapped in a cave in France after a collapse of some kind for a week or so. Rescue divers are trying to locate him and get him out. This COULD have been avoided as this diver definitely knew the risks of what he was doing for RECREATION. Big difference.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
No one is forced to do a job, stop making excuses for people. The people know/knew the risks and accepted them. And when they go back to such a job next week, who will you blame the next problem on??
The people will be back in the mines next week risking their lives for the same reasons as the reasons that led them down their this week..
You mean trying to provide for their families and secure the education and future of their children so, maybe, they won't have to go down to the mines, potentially risking their lives, when they are of working age?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
No one is forced to do a job, stop making excuses for people. The people know/knew the risks and accepted them. And when they go back to such a job next week, who will you blame the next problem on??
somebody has to do this job. its like the american dream that i slept through, you can be whatever you want blah blah, reality is much different. somebody has to pick up the trash. people aren't forced into that type of work but often it is the only option.
No one is forced to do a job, stop making excuses for people. The people know/knew the risks and accepted them. And when they go back to such a job next week, who will you blame the next problem on???
[/quote]
Making excuses? Is providing for your family an excuse? Or a duty to do whatever you need to do for this? Of course no one is forced to do a job. Do you need to eat, have a roof over your head, support a family? You need income for that. Maybe you have a family fortune you can live off but most probably you have a job (or you are living off benefits). Is it the job you always dreamed of? Miners, factory workers, oil rig workers, trash collectors, street sweepers... all jobs that need doing. You may be lucky enough to live in a country where you have options. Others aren't so lucky. It's not making excuses, it's accepting the fact that some may have better opportunities that others, depending on where they were born.
I'm simply saying this is a calculated risk they took by taking such a job and the media over emphasizes such results to emulate said results. Nothing more, nothing less. We see it sensationalized in our media for the positive, but no real lesson, experience or details are learned as a result. Instead in emphasizes a false sense of security in the industry and world for dangerous jobs without ever examining the necessity of why such mines exist, or the meaning of their success (if you could call it that). The Chilean Earthquake was catastrophic, yet no one can even remember such a thing, and this minuscule, self-inflicted event occurred effected 30 something people, and it's "news". It's a joke and quickly frankly insulting to the realities of the problems of this nation and nothing more than a media circus for our benefit. People in our half of the world seem to forget that fact..
Any work is a calculated risk. I work in heavy industry, around machines that can crush me in an instant. or I can crush others with. We have high safety standards. but the risk is real so we mitigate the risk. we educate the workforce and completly reduce the danger.
mines are the same. offices are the same . their are risks in all workplaces.
you insult all workers by your comments saying nothings learnt
Also, I choose not to get wrapped up in the pretend caring of media stories. It's simply a fabrication of reality in order to bring forth a specific false and fake emotion and reaction.
Maybe you watched something different than I did. I watched a raw live feed with no media commentary most of the time. Whatever I feel about this came from my viewing that, not what some media personality told me to feel.
This could have all ended so differently. Their president stayed on the scene the entire time - didn't look like he slept, and he sounded sincere in making changes.
And last but not least, this rescue effort was a great feat of engineering. A lot of expertise, discipline and hard work goes into pulling something like this off without error.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
I don't think this incident sensationalized the mining industry in any light than what it is.
However, it gave the world at large hope in a situation that seemed hopeless. Who wouldn't grab on to that? It is truly one of the most incredible, amazing, who-would-have-thought it could happen situations. It is the rescue that people are clinging to, not the mining industry. The resuce is successful, that is reason enough for cheer and celebration across the world. When the whole world is watching for a miracle/rescue . . . it doesn't discount why the resuce is needed, but we are all rooting for the people to live through it. Go, Chilean Miners, Go!!!!!
Just within the past couple years miners within the US have died after being stuck underground. When we first hear of the story, and don't know the outcome, we are rooting for those miners to get out. So often, the tragedy has been complete.
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Since watching about these minors, my husband and I haven't been able to figure out:
1.What kind of mine it is and
2. How they got trapped.
The news hasn't really mentioned this (probably because they were trapped for so long), but it's missing from the story, we feel. Anyone know?
It was explained back in August when it happened. It's a copper mine (lots of them in Chili) and the roof of a ramp collapsed some 100 meters or so above the place where the miners were working.
in honour of all the good things coming down the Chilean pipe...me thinks I am going to have something spicy for lunch
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Since watching about these minors, my husband and I haven't been able to figure out:
1.What kind of mine it is and
2. How they got trapped.
The news hasn't really mentioned this (probably because they were trapped for so long), but it's missing from the story, we feel. Anyone know?
It was explained back in August when it happened. It's a copper mine (lots of them in Chili) and the roof of a ramp collapsed some 100 meters or so above the place where the miners were working.
Ok let me be a bit more clear and specific so there's no misunderstanding. Strategy and procedures are adjusted or gained, but the continued dangers of the industry and workers is unchanged. I know everyone loves a good, happy ending type of story which is great, but let's not fail to see this for what it is - a dangerous job to mine goods and resources - the dark, backside of our consumerism and global economics. Many of you seem to bash people in society which flock to goods and services which leads to greed, self-interest and other uncanny traits. This industry and job are merely an extension and piece of the puzzle. Where do all the resources that build our electronics and war machines come from? Seems like many of you want to pretend it's easy and ok to bash the after-effect (wars, media, lack luster social effects in society) yet dismiss or give a pass to process and where we get them all from. It's all part of the process and part of the greater "machine" we call globalization and economy. So many yell and scream about the gulf oil spill simply because the result was different - but this is the same underlying message and because it doesnt really effect you on the surface and has a happy ending - it's a teaching lesson and all ends well. No they are not exactly the same events or practice, but the message is exactly the same. Let's not pretend otherwise.
Any work is a calculated risk. I work in heavy industry, around machines that can crush me in an instant. or I can crush others with. We have high safety standards. but the risk is real so we mitigate the risk. we educate the workforce and completly reduce the danger.
mines are the same. offices are the same . their are risks in all workplaces.
you insult all workers by your comments saying nothings learnt
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Ok let me be a bit more clear and specific so there's no misunderstanding. Strategy and procedures are adjusted or gained, but the continued dangers of the industry and workers is unchanged. I know everyone loves a good, happy ending type of story which is great, but let's not fail to see this for what it is - a dangerous job to mine goods and resources - the dark, backside of our consumerism and global economics. Many of you seem to bash people in society which flock to goods and services which leads to greed, self-interest and other uncanny traits. This industry and job are merely an extension and piece of the puzzle. Where do all the resources that build our electronics and war machines come from? Seems like many of you want to pretend it's easy and ok to bash the after-effect (wars, media, lack luster social effects in society) yet dismiss or give a pass to process and where we get them all from. It's all part of the process and part of the greater "machine" we call globalization and economy. So many yell and scream about the gulf oil spill simply because the result was different - but this is the same underlying message and because it doesnt really effect you on the surface and has a happy ending - it's a teaching lesson and all ends well. No they are not exactly the same events or practice, but the message is exactly the same. Let's not pretend otherwise.
Any work is a calculated risk. I work in heavy industry, around machines that can crush me in an instant. or I can crush others with. We have high safety standards. but the risk is real so we mitigate the risk. we educate the workforce and completly reduce the danger.
mines are the same. offices are the same . their are risks in all workplaces.
you insult all workers by your comments saying nothings learnt
I'm not sure what point you are driving. That the only reason they mine is because of money and the economy? I think a high percentage of people go to work only because of money and the economy.
Part of my point is simply people laud the situation yet ignore the bigger picture aspect of it. For example, with the recent Gulf spill, people are/were outraged by it, yet went on with business as usual shortly thereafter... no real action or discussion about oil consumption, or their direct hand in the situation. This mining incident is along the same lines - it's a reflection of people's magnifying a specific, single item while ignoring the broader effects, influences and even their own impact in the situation. In sum, it's a microcosm of why people act, think and are the way they are in society.
Also, on a side note, someone previously mentioned how the President of Chile was on hand for lots of this rescue, but they failed to mention how one of the reasons was simply public relations. The Chilean government (prior and current) was harshly criticized in Chile for not handling the earthquake relief and rescue well, so many have made mention even if his presence was for good intentions, it's naive to believe it wasn't a bit of good old pr as well. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/world/americas/04chile.html)
I'm not sure what point you are driving. That the only reason they mine is because of money and the economy? I think a high percentage of people go to work only because of money and the economy.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
When exactly did I claim it's not "a happy story"? Don't mistake my commentary on mining and this topic for pessimism... not the same thing but many seem to make that leap on their own. As I've said, I'm glad the miners are ok, but my opinion its a rather minor (pun intended) aspect of this industry and microcosm of what people quietly accept compared to focusing on a very small moment. If we're really gonna view this as a teaching moment and something to learn from, how bout we discuss the actual entire subject matter and where it relates to the nation, society and ourselves... not simply just marvel at the band aiding of a rescue, but ignores the long term ramifications and implications of the topic and subject. Whether it's copper mines, diamonds in South Africa or drilling for oil, it all says lots about us as a society and role in why they are necessary or not.
HAHA, c'mon... just give up!
its a happy story and you know it!
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
When exactly did I claim it's not "a happy story"? Don't mistake my commentary on mining and this topic for pessimism... not the same thing but many seem to make that leap on their own. As I've said, I'm glad the miners are ok, but my opinion its a rather minor (pun intended) aspect of this industry and microcosm of what people quietly accept compared to focusing on a very small moment. If we're really gonna view this as a teaching moment and something to learn from, how bout we discuss the actual entire subject matter and where it relates to the nation, society and ourselves... not simply just marvel at the band aiding of a rescue, but ignores the long term ramifications and implications of the topic and subject. Whether it's copper mines, diamonds in South Africa or drilling for oil, it all says lots about us as a society and role in why they are necessary or not.
HAHA, c'mon... just give up!
its a happy story and you know it!
Jeez, lighten up.
With all the terrible downer stories that have happened lately, toxic sludge, millions affected by flooding, etc... its nice to see something uplifting. Yeah, mining is dangerous, we all know that, and in some places regulations are non existent, but why try and downplay this whole thing?
No one is disagreeing with you that it is an industry that is dangerous and that the people know the dangers before going into it... but it doesn't make it any less awesome that these guys were involved in a huge accident and made it out relatively unscathed!! People know the hazards of driving but if you make it out of a head on collision with a truck that's pretty damn awesome!
Yes it's awesome, but to me, it's more important to focus on how to improve and make things better for the future, so we don't repeat problems, not just focus on present - even if it's a good, happy story. Nothing more than that.
With all the terrible downer stories that have happened lately, toxic sludge, millions affected by flooding, etc... its nice to see something uplifting. Yeah, mining is dangerous, we all know that, and in some places regulations are non existent, but why try and downplay this whole thing?
No one is disagreeing with you that it is an industry that is dangerous and that the people know the dangers before going into it... but it doesn't make it any less awesome that these guys were involved in a huge accident and made it out relatively unscathed!! People know the hazards of driving but if you make it out of a head on collision with a truck that's pretty damn awesome!
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yes it's awesome, but to me, it's more important to focus on how to improve and make things better for the future, so we don't repeat problems, not just focus on present - even if it's a good, happy story. Nothing more than that.
so do we learn new techniques for rescue, for freeing trapped miners or do we just stop mining completly,
its a dangerous game but their are huge amounts of miners underground at any time around the world. working safely
the mine in question will not operate again *( apparently)
one of the rescue team in chile was an aussie specialist, he learnt and used techniques used in the beaconsfeild cave in a few years back where 2 guys wee trapped for just over 2 weeks.
im sure that the next event similar will use techniques learnt over the last few weeks .
Yes it's awesome, but to me, it's more important to focus on how to improve and make things better for the future, so we don't repeat problems, not just focus on present - even if it's a good, happy story. Nothing more than that.
Which they will be doing - at least in Chili. So, not only did the miners come out alive and well, but their working conditions will be made safer and they also learned how to deal with these kind of issues better.
Has anyone heard the latest on the miners this morning? They are willing to interview as a group only and they're asking big bucks. They mentioned "millions".
Has anyone heard the latest on the miners this morning? They are willing to interview as a group only and they're asking big bucks. They mentioned "millions".
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
This was truly a happy ending in a world where there simply aren't enough of them.
Hell, I'm surprised the news media even reported it.
Luckily for the media, they could prey off the miners family, friends, and the occasional mistress. The AP had a few reporters stay in the tents 24/7 so that they could capture the drama and rumors.
Has anyone heard the latest on the miners this morning? They are willing to interview as a group only and they're asking big bucks. They mentioned "millions".
I just think that being thankful you made it out alive wouldn't equate to money...lots of it. I'm a bit disappointed. The reason they went in was to make a living...I don't equate that with greed, at all. Miners take many risks to work their jobs, and may not know how to do anything else.
Has anyone heard the latest on the miners this morning? They are willing to interview as a group only and they're asking big bucks. They mentioned "millions".
I just think that being thankful you made it out alive wouldn't equate to money...lots of it. I'm a bit disappointed. The reason they went in was to make a living...I don't equate that with greed, at all. Miners take many risks to work their jobs.
I don't know if it is greed. Their story has intrigued the world and money is going to be made off of it, even if the miners take an oath of silence. Whichever media hub gets the first interview is going to make a ton of money off of ads. Just think of how many eyeballs around the world were watching them get pulled out of the earth on live feeds.
Why is it wrong for the miners to get their cut of the story . . . it is about their lives and trials.
Comments
well I work in the mining inddustry, my company was involved in the machinary used to get them out, not my sector Im softrock not hard rock like these guys were in. these people were trapped. and through clever engineering they were rescued. its a bloody great thing that these people survived. great for other in the future whos rescuers will reference this rescue, will use techniques and technologies developed over the last few weeks/months.
You in your area may have great variety in choice, some are not so lucky, Dont base others life on your own.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
somebody has to do this job. its like the american dream that i slept through, you can be whatever you want blah blah, reality is much different. somebody has to pick up the trash. people aren't forced into that type of work but often it is the only option.
Making excuses? Is providing for your family an excuse? Or a duty to do whatever you need to do for this? Of course no one is forced to do a job. Do you need to eat, have a roof over your head, support a family? You need income for that. Maybe you have a family fortune you can live off but most probably you have a job (or you are living off benefits). Is it the job you always dreamed of? Miners, factory workers, oil rig workers, trash collectors, street sweepers... all jobs that need doing. You may be lucky enough to live in a country where you have options. Others aren't so lucky. It's not making excuses, it's accepting the fact that some may have better opportunities that others, depending on where they were born.
You attitude is beyond me.
Really? How do you know? Their eyes probably won't even be recovered by next week.
Maybe you watched something different than I did. I watched a raw live feed with no media commentary most of the time. Whatever I feel about this came from my viewing that, not what some media personality told me to feel.
This could have all ended so differently. Their president stayed on the scene the entire time - didn't look like he slept, and he sounded sincere in making changes.
And last but not least, this rescue effort was a great feat of engineering. A lot of expertise, discipline and hard work goes into pulling something like this off without error.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
1.What kind of mine it is and
2. How they got trapped.
The news hasn't really mentioned this (probably because they were trapped for so long), but it's missing from the story, we feel. Anyone know?
However, it gave the world at large hope in a situation that seemed hopeless. Who wouldn't grab on to that? It is truly one of the most incredible, amazing, who-would-have-thought it could happen situations. It is the rescue that people are clinging to, not the mining industry. The resuce is successful, that is reason enough for cheer and celebration across the world. When the whole world is watching for a miracle/rescue . . . it doesn't discount why the resuce is needed, but we are all rooting for the people to live through it. Go, Chilean Miners, Go!!!!!
Just within the past couple years miners within the US have died after being stuck underground. When we first hear of the story, and don't know the outcome, we are rooting for those miners to get out. So often, the tragedy has been complete.
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
It was explained back in August when it happened. It's a copper mine (lots of them in Chili) and the roof of a ramp collapsed some 100 meters or so above the place where the miners were working.
>
...a lover and a fighter.
"I'm at least half a bum" Rocky Balboa
http://www.videosift.com/video/Obamas-Message-To-American-Indians
Edmonton, AB. September 5th, 2005
Vancouver, BC. April 3rd, 2008
Calgary,AB. August 8th, 2009
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Thanks!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Also, on a side note, someone previously mentioned how the President of Chile was on hand for lots of this rescue, but they failed to mention how one of the reasons was simply public relations. The Chilean government (prior and current) was harshly criticized in Chile for not handling the earthquake relief and rescue well, so many have made mention even if his presence was for good intentions, it's naive to believe it wasn't a bit of good old pr as well. (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/world/americas/04chile.html)
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
its a happy story and you know it!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
With all the terrible downer stories that have happened lately, toxic sludge, millions affected by flooding, etc... its nice to see something uplifting. Yeah, mining is dangerous, we all know that, and in some places regulations are non existent, but why try and downplay this whole thing?
No one is disagreeing with you that it is an industry that is dangerous and that the people know the dangers before going into it... but it doesn't make it any less awesome that these guys were involved in a huge accident and made it out relatively unscathed!! People know the hazards of driving but if you make it out of a head on collision with a truck that's pretty damn awesome!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
so do we learn new techniques for rescue, for freeing trapped miners or do we just stop mining completly,
its a dangerous game but their are huge amounts of miners underground at any time around the world. working safely
the mine in question will not operate again *( apparently)
one of the rescue team in chile was an aussie specialist, he learnt and used techniques used in the beaconsfeild cave in a few years back where 2 guys wee trapped for just over 2 weeks.
im sure that the next event similar will use techniques learnt over the last few weeks .
Which they will be doing - at least in Chili. So, not only did the miners come out alive and well, but their working conditions will be made safer and they also learned how to deal with these kind of issues better.
Hell, I'm surprised the news media even reported it.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I just think that being thankful you made it out alive wouldn't equate to money...lots of it. I'm a bit disappointed. The reason they went in was to make a living...I don't equate that with greed, at all. Miners take many risks to work their jobs, and may not know how to do anything else.
Why is it wrong for the miners to get their cut of the story . . . it is about their lives and trials.
Do you really think asking for millions of dollars is "reasonable" though?