Critical time for the War Resister support campaign

24

Comments

  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,988
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    lot easier to hide things when noone will document it.
    and I say again I
    I stand behind my signiture. behind my word.

    IOf you dont have the will dont sign on, easy isnt it. oh but to many saw it as an easy earner. then SEPT 11 happened. So they were sent to work
    what did iraq have to do with september 11?? those men and women should have never had to go to iraq in the first place. and we should have been out of afghanistan at least 5 years ago.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    lot easier to hide things when noone will document it.
    and I say again I
    I stand behind my signiture. behind my word.

    IOf you dont have the will dont sign on, easy isnt it. oh but to many saw it as an easy earner. then SEPT 11 happened. So they were sent to work

    most of these people signed up after 9/11 ... thinking they were protecting their country ...

    seriously, you think soldiers should stay even tho they are doing what is morally wrong to them and potentially die for it? ...

    a soldier should risk his life just so corporations like haliburton can make huge amounts of money and potentially leave behind is wife, children and family?

    i can see the tombstone ... died in the name of economic greed, leaves behind wife and son ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,420
    Does anyone have any idea how many Americans have went AWOL into the great white north? My wild guess would be around 100.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    again I would stand by my signiture, my word
    thats what I would do.
    cause to me it means somthing
    yeah you allsay it dosnt . but thats sad that you cannot take a person by their word, by their signiture, by their commitment
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    please dont argue the case of the iraq war with me, as im your side to the whole iraq war.
    and those who say that the solders are to blame should be ashamed. soldiers do as they are ordered to do.
    sure there is a minority who commit crimes. but the majority do the right thing
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    you missing the point.



    they're are the ones in breach of contract, the elite, not the individuals refusing to serve.


    above that dotted line nowhere does it say, yes i will risk my life for corporations in the name of empire.

    and soldiers didn't sign up to kill iraqis, they never did anything to any of us.
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    you sign on the line to follw orders.
    what??? do you join for the retirement pension.
    for the goood holidays
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    every time you support those who ran away because they didnt want to serve corporations you rub into the dirt those who did not run, who served as they were asked to serve.
    they stand behind their names. they did as they were ordered
    blame those who make the decisions , not those who follow those orders.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,988
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    you sign on the line to follw orders.
    what??? do you join for the retirement pension.
    for the goood holidays
    a lot of people join for the health care. i can attest to that fact since about 37% of our patient load are active duty or retired military that use one of the forms of tricare, the military insurance. and we get 95% of all of the pediatric orthopedic referrals from the air force base that is nearby since they have no peds clinic there anymore.
    this is anecdotal, but some of those i have gotten to know either had no options out of high school, or gotten married or had kids at a very young age and they needed a stable job to support that family. they did not think they would be dropping bombs on the heads of innocent people in iraq...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    does the US have conscription
    NO
    well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
    If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
    sp man up

    im confused by your post.

    Oh ok
    the original is about suuport for canada to house war resistors is that correct.
    If so seeing as though their is no current drafting of civilians into the military well those resisting going to war are those who have signed on the line to join the services.
    my point is their should not be protection for them. they signed on. man up to their commitments.
    if their was a draft I would support such a thing

    I thought they signed up to defend America? Therefore, when a bunch of crooks like the Bush Administration decide to invade Iraq, how does that constitute defending America? People in the armed forces are perfectly right to go awol when the U.S government has been hijacked by a bunch of gangsters.
  • JebRand
    JebRand Posts: 38
    Jason P wrote:
    Does anyone have any idea how many Americans have went AWOL into the great white north? My wild guess would be around 100.

    Your wild guess is fairly close, I've heard the number 200 thrown around at the talks I have attended.

    Clearly the Canadian government is worried about the precedent this would set going forward. I use the reference "Canadian government" loosely as I don't believe they are acting as a sovereign nation.

    Man where is our Trudeau?
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    lot easier to hide things when noone will document it.
    and I say again I
    I stand behind my signiture. behind my word.

    IOf you dont have the will dont sign on, easy isnt it. oh but to many saw it as an easy earner. then SEPT 11 happened. So they were sent to work
    ..in the wrong country!

    "its the American in me says its an honor to die in a war that's just a politician's lie..."
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • JebRand
    JebRand Posts: 38
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    again I would stand by my signiture, my word
    thats what I would do.
    cause to me it means somthing
    yeah you allsay it dosnt . but thats sad that you cannot take a person by their word, by their signiture, by their commitment

    What is sad about these comments is that it is unfortunate that the country in question (the US) does not have this commitment to their soldiers.

    It has been documented numerous times that the US gov't is avoiding treating soldier ailments (in particular mental health). The suicide rate for US Military personnel has been climbing month by month, last article I read it was up to 1,100. US vets are not receiving any assistance with reintegrating into society which is clearly seen by the surge of homelessness amongst this group.

    Regardless of what has been signed, I would choose based on my beliefs and convictions... I would leave my country and face the threat of incarceration vs. the likely outcomes listed above and the mental anguish of participating in an illegal war.
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    you sign on the line to follw orders.
    what??? do you join for the retirement pension.
    for the goood holidays
    a lot of people join for the health care. i can attest to that fact since about 37% of our patient load are active duty or retired military that use one of the forms of tricare, the military insurance. and we get 95% of all of the pediatric orthopedic referrals from the air force base that is nearby since they have no peds clinic there anymore.
    this is anecdotal, but some of those i have gotten to know either had no options out of high school, or gotten married or had kids at a very young age and they needed a stable job to support that family. they did not think they would be dropping bombs on the heads of innocent people in iraq...
    same boat as me . I did join for the coin, I was unemployed . couldnt get a job.
    regardless I stand behind my name my sig
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    I thought they signed up to defend America? Therefore, when a bunch of crooks like the Bush Administration decide to invade Iraq, how does that constitute defending America? People in the armed forces are perfectly right to go awol when the U.S government has been hijacked by a bunch of gangsters.[/quote]
    blame those who sent them
    Not those sent
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    What is sad about these comments is that it is unfortunate that the country in question (the US) does not have this commitment to their soldiers.

    It has been documented numerous times that the US gov't is avoiding treating soldier ailments (in particular mental health). The suicide rate for US Military personnel has been climbing month by month, last article I read it was up to 1,100. US vets are not receiving any assistance with reintegrating into society which is clearly seen by the surge of homelessness amongst this group.

    your very right there They deserve so much more
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • ONCE DEVIDED
    ONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    In your workplace do you have the right to choose what jobs you do???
    or are you told what needs to be done
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,988
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    In your workplace do you have the right to choose what jobs you do???
    or are you told what needs to be done
    i help people every day at my job. i like it. sure there are some things that i get bored with or tired of, but there is nothing that i am patently opposed to, as in no i am not charged with the task of carrying a gun and shooting at people...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,988
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    you sign on the line to follw orders.
    what??? do you join for the retirement pension.
    for the goood holidays
    a lot of people join for the health care. i can attest to that fact since about 37% of our patient load are active duty or retired military that use one of the forms of tricare, the military insurance. and we get 95% of all of the pediatric orthopedic referrals from the air force base that is nearby since they have no peds clinic there anymore.
    this is anecdotal, but some of those i have gotten to know either had no options out of high school, or gotten married or had kids at a very young age and they needed a stable job to support that family. they did not think they would be dropping bombs on the heads of innocent people in iraq...
    same boat as me . I did join for the coin, I was unemployed . couldnt get a job.
    regardless I stand behind my name my sig
    fair enough. stand by your sig...i will never put myself in the position to have to sign my name and commit to killing in the name of my country, its leaders, or the military industrial complex that pulls the strings...to my mind there are things that i believe in my soul that are absolutely unshakeable and will never be changed...like war and murder is wrong under all circumstances, and those that oppose it very deeply should be able to find sanctuary somewhere, even if it is in another country. i applaud canada for being one of those places.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    ONCE DEVIDED wrote:
    same boat as me . I did join for the coin, I was unemployed . couldnt get a job.
    regardless I stand behind my name my sig

    Why do you keep pretending that as soon as anyone enlists they have to do whatever they're told? If your superior ordered you to massacre a bunch of women and children would you do it?

    If your leaders engage in a criminal war of occupation then you have every right to refuse to participate. Joining the military does not mean that you sign away your conscience, your morals, and your backbone.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_O ... nd_against
    This "Superior Orders" defense is still used with the following rationale in the following scenario: An "order" may come from one's superior at the level of national law. But according to Nuremberg Principle IV, such an order is sometimes "unlawful" according to international law. Such an "unlawful order" presents a legal dilemma from which there is no legal escape: On one hand, a person who refuses such an unlawful order faces the possibility of legal punishment at the national level for refusing orders. On the other hand, a person who accepts such an unlawful order faces the possibility of legal punishment at the international level (e.g. Nuremberg Trials) for committing unlawful acts. Therefore this is a Catch-22 legal dilemma.

    Nuremberg Principle II responds to that dilemma by stating: "The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law."[29]

    The above scenario might present a legal dilemma, but Nuremberg Principle IV speaks of "a moral choice" as being just as important as "legal" decisions: It states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

    In "moral choices" or ethical dilemmas an ethical decision is often made by appealing to a "higher ethic" such as ethics in religion or secular ethics. One such "higher ethic," which is found in many religions and also in secular ethics, is the "ethic of reciprocity," or the Golden Rule. It states that one has a right to just treatment, and therefore has a reciprocal responsibility to ensure justice for others. "Higher ethics," such as those, could be used by an individual to solve the legal dilemma presented by the "Superior Orders" defense.

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