Critical time for the War Resister support campaign

JebRand

As per the message below, Canadian Parliament will be making a decision on whether US War Resisters will be allowed to remain in Canada.

I urge you to support War Resisters in Canada and support Bill C-440.

Please act
- Andrew

Dear Friends of US War Resisters in Canada

This is a critical time in our fight to keep US war resisters in Canada. Parliament will continue second reading of Bill C-440 at the end of this month, with a vote expected shortly after that. We must make every effort to ensure that all opposition MPs show up to vote. The numbers are very tight and every vote is crucial.

We want to alert you to some important upcoming dates, which should give you a bit of time to plan, so we can all work together for the final lobbying push before the vote. Please especially note Wednesday, September 22.

Tues Sept 21 WRSC will email all opposition MPs

Weds Sept 22 WRSC WILL EMAIL ALL SUPPORTERS, ASKING YOU TO CALL MPs at constituency and Ottawa offices

Fri Sept 24 WRSC will put out media advisory re 2nd hour of debate and continue to ask supporters to call MPs

Mon Sept 27 2nd hour of debate; phone banking to call MPs for vote on Wednesday

Tues Sept 28 more phoning to MPs for the vote on Wednesday; possible postcard action in Ottawa

Weds Sept 29 vote on 2nd reading of Bill C-440; media release for positive or negative vote

When you receive our email on Sept 22, please ASAP forward or copy/paste to your own network of friends, family, activists, fellow union members, colleagues, etc., asking them to call their MP about Bill C-440. We will include basic talking points and other information.

As you may know, we've had a few high-profile events lately, including a packed house at Toronto's Bloor Cinema for a screening of the movie, "Howard Zinn: You Can't Be Neutral on a Moving Train", introduced by Naomi Klein. At the Toronto International Film Festival, filmmaker Michael Moore called out the Harper government for its shameful treatment of Iraq War resisters, and director Ken Loach endorsed Bill C-440.

Today, September 18, is the one-year anniversary of war resister Rodney Watson going into sanctuary in Vancouver. Please make every effort to mobilize your network in support of Bill C-440!!

Michael Moore on US war resisters in Canada:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yVBIulyP6k

With thanks and in solidarity,


Laura Kaminker
for The War Resisters Support Campaign



Laura Kaminker
Mississauga, ON
http://wmtc.ca
http://resisters.ca
http://letthemstay.ca _______________________________________________
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ONCE DEVIDED

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

im confused by your post.

Commy

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

im confused by your post.

that makes 2 of us.

ONCE DEVIDED

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

im confused by your post.

Oh ok
the original is about suuport for canada to house war resistors is that correct.
If so seeing as though their is no current drafting of civilians into the military well those resisting going to war are those who have signed on the line to join the services.
my point is their should not be protection for them. they signed on. man up to their commitments.
if their was a draft I would support such a thing

TriumphantAngel

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

do you even know who Rodney Watson is?

he served his first tour of duty in Iraq. he became a conscientious objector to the war after witnessing brutal beatings and racism towards Iraqi civilians by some of his fellow soldiers. he was so distraught about having to go back to Iraq for his second tour of duty, so he went to Canada to avoid serving.

so don't tell me he can't man up. he already has and he hated what he saw and refuses to be a part of it anymore.

that should not be a crime.

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

im confused by your post.

Oh ok
the original is about suuport for canada to house war resistors is that correct.
If so seeing as though their is no current drafting of civilians into the military well those resisting going to war are those who have signed on the line to join the services.
my point is their should not be protection for them. they signed on. man up to their commitments.
if their was a draft I would support such a thing

aah ok thats what i thought yuo were on about. and i disagree.


sure they signed on the dotted line but if for whatever reason the conflict theyre being sent to is one they dont believe is just then i say run like the wind bullseye. cause if i were serving overseas the last thing id want beside me is soemone who didnt want to bethere.

ONCE DEVIDED

Nop I dont know who he is but thats not my point is it.
I joined the infantry here in australia at the age of 18. I served for 10 years. At no point during my enlistment did I agree with my countries involvement but I served as it was what I COMMITTED to.
and thats my point only. those who have signed should complete what they AGREED to do.
if you dont want to comit dont sign.

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

Nop I dont know who he is but thats not my point is it.
I joined the infantry here in australia at the age of 18. I served for 10 years. At no point during my enlistment did I agree with my countries involvement but I served as it was what I COMMITTED to.
and thats my point only. those who have signed should complete what they AGREED to do.
if you dont want to comit dont sign.

so youd have no trouble being shipped to iraq even if you didnt believe it was just?

ONCE DEVIDED

TriumphantAngel wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

do you even know who Rodney Wilson is?

he served his first tour of duty in Iraq. he became a conscientious objector to the war after witnessing brutal beatings and racism towards Iraqi civilians by some of his fellow soldiers. he was so distraught about having to go back to Iraq for his second tour of duty, so he went to Canada to avoid serving.

so don't tell me he can't man up. he already has and he hated what he saw and refuses to be a part of it anymore.

that should not be a crime.

so you agree people can just walk away from anything they sign because of an opinion.
hell yeah I agreed to a $10.000 loan but hell I aint paying, the price of beer went up and I cant afford it.
if you sign on the line, honor it
far too much of people thinking their signiture means nothing

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

do you even know who Rodney Wilson is?

he served his first tour of duty in Iraq. he became a conscientious objector to the war after witnessing brutal beatings and racism towards Iraqi civilians by some of his fellow soldiers. he was so distraught about having to go back to Iraq for his second tour of duty, so he went to Canada to avoid serving.

so don't tell me he can't man up. he already has and he hated what he saw and refuses to be a part of it anymore.

that should not be a crime.

so you agree people can just walk away from anything they sign because of an opinion.
hell yeah I agreed to a $10.000 loan but hell I aint paying, the price of beer went up and I cant afford it.
if you sign on the line, honor it
far too much of people thinking their signiture means nothing

people do it every day when they decide to end their marriage in divorce. or is that different??

JebRand

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

Your reaction is the most common one I receive when discussing the War Resister topic, and I can appreciate it.

What you need to keep in mind is that most of these soldiers signed up prior to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. So the resistance is a political one, and you need to see it through the eyes of the human making the decision. If you do not agree with the actions your country has taken, as a "free" person why would you act against your own convictions?

I would recommend watching the movie Body Of War (as a PJ fan you will be particularly interested since Eddie wrote the song No More for this movie) for insight.

Regarding this Bill C-440, I want to highlight that up to now the Canadian Government has been acting against the public opinion, a Parliament motion and precedent. Sounds like a very strong case for a Democratic process.

ONCE DEVIDED

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

Nop I dont know who he is but thats not my point is it.
I joined the infantry here in australia at the age of 18. I served for 10 years. At no point during my enlistment did I agree with my countries involvement but I served as it was what I COMMITTED to.
and thats my point only. those who have signed should complete what they AGREED to do.
if you dont want to comit dont sign.

so youd have no trouble being shipped to iraq even if you didnt believe it was just?

No none . Id serve there . Never agreed with it, been to rallies against it, mailed all my national politicians to say that I if they could prove their case I would stand at the front line in the attack. but they never did. regardless I made a commitment to serve and I would honor it.
I stand behind my signiture. It represents me.
the wedding certificate, etc

catefrances

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

catefrances wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

Nop I dont know who he is but thats not my point is it.
I joined the infantry here in australia at the age of 18. I served for 10 years. At no point during my enlistment did I agree with my countries involvement but I served as it was what I COMMITTED to.
and thats my point only. those who have signed should complete what they AGREED to do.
if you dont want to comit dont sign.

so youd have no trouble being shipped to iraq even if you didnt believe it was just?

No none . Id serve there . Never agreed with it, been to rallies against it, mailed all my national politicians to say that I if they could prove their case I would stand at the front line in the attack. but they never did. regardless I made a commitment to serve and I would honor it.
I stand behind my signiture. It represents me.
the wedding certificate, etc

so what exactly would you be fighting for??

TriumphantAngel

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

TriumphantAngel wrote:

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

does the US have conscription
NO
well then those who signed on the line do waht they signed on for.
If there was a draft thats a different kettle of fish. but there aint
sp man up

do you even know who Rodney Watson is?

he served his first tour of duty in Iraq. he became a conscientious objector to the war after witnessing brutal beatings and racism towards Iraqi civilians by some of his fellow soldiers. he was so distraught about having to go back to Iraq for his second tour of duty, so he went to Canada to avoid serving.

so don't tell me he can't man up. he already has and he hated what he saw and refuses to be a part of it anymore.

that should not be a crime.

so you agree people can just walk away from anything they sign because of an opinion.
hell yeah I agreed to a $10.000 loan but hell I aint paying, the price of beer went up and I cant afford it.
if you sign on the line, honor it
far too much of people thinking their signiture means nothing

what if what they signed up for wasn't as it seemed at the time?

he is standing up and saying “I did not return to Iraq because it is a war of aggression based on lies about weapons of mass destruction. I witnessed U.S. soldiers beating Iraqi civilians and using racist terms,”

they never did find those WMD did they.

Commy

TriumphantAngel wrote:

what if what they signed up for wasn't as it seemed at the time?

he is standing up and saying “I did not return to Iraq because it is a war of aggression based on lies about weapons of mass destruction. I witnessed U.S. soldiers beating Iraqi civilians and using racist terms,”

they never did find those WMD did they.

defending your country is one thing, expanding an empire is something else.


war for haliburton? i don't think any of these soldiers are willing to risk their lives for a corporation.


and that didn't become apparent until much later. these soldier dissenting....they are heroes of this war.

gimmesometruth27

The War Resisters Support Campaign
i support this organization. conscientious objectors should be able to have sanctuary somewhere and i am glad that canada has been helpful. war is wrong and even if you signed up for service, if the mission was doing something immoral like invading iraq for no reason at all, you should be able to get out of it without going to jail. muhammad ali went to jail because he refused to be drafted into the service and fight in vietnam.

ONCE DEVIDED

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

The War Resisters Support Campaign
i support this organization. conscientious objectors should be able to have sanctuary somewhere and i am glad that canada has been helpful. war is wrong and even if you signed up for service, if the mission was doing something immoral like invading iraq for no reason at all, you should be able to get out of it without going to jail. muhammad ali went to jail because he refused to be drafted into the service and fight in vietnam.

Ali was drafted and for me, thats the difference. Sorry to disagree as I have always been against the Iraq war. but you gotta stand behind your word
somebody mentioned that you sign for marraige but can get divorced, thats a legal seperation.
what if we were talking about a bill where the Canadian government allowed people fleeing marraiges and their responsabilities to the finacial care of their offspring. The bill allowing those fathers and mothers to avoid paying for the upkeep of their children. bit off the topic but relevent.
sur ethe iraq war was wrong , but instead of running from the bad stuff how about shining a light on it, recording these ileagle events to make a case against the perps. instead of running and hiding.

polaris_x

this "you signed a commitment" thing is ridiculous ...

i wonder if the document says:

Section 89 - B12
* You will engage in activities that are morally reprehensible to humanity.
* You will kill and create mass suffering for innocent people.
* You will break international law.
* You will come back with ailments and mental health issues of which your government will not care about.

People sign up for the Armed Services believing in protecting their country - not drumming up business for multi-national corporations.

Unfortunately, for most war resistors in Canada now - we have a right-wing gov't that doesn't care about your plight. Guaranteed that this vote will go down because some Liberals won't show up for it.

gimmesometruth27

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

The War Resisters Support Campaign
i support this organization. conscientious objectors should be able to have sanctuary somewhere and i am glad that canada has been helpful. war is wrong and even if you signed up for service, if the mission was doing something immoral like invading iraq for no reason at all, you should be able to get out of it without going to jail. muhammad ali went to jail because he refused to be drafted into the service and fight in vietnam.

Ali was drafted and for me, thats the difference. Sorry to disagree as I have always been against the Iraq war. but you gotta stand behind your word
somebody mentioned that you sign for marraige but can get divorced, thats a legal seperation.
what if we were talking about a bill where the Canadian government allowed people fleeing marraiges and their responsabilities to the finacial care of their offspring. The bill allowing those fathers and mothers to avoid paying for the upkeep of their children. bit off the topic but relevent.
sur ethe iraq war was wrong , but instead of running from the bad stuff how about shining a light on it, recording these ileagle events to make a case against the perps. instead of running and hiding.

a quick couple of things here....
first of all, people break contracts all the time. how many people are hired and then change jobs? is it not the same things here? these soldiers are recruited and offered a postion. they accept the position and if the job is not for them or they object to the mission why should they be forced to stay in that unacceptable position? how often to baseball players or football players hold out because they do not like the terms of their contract or how often do they demand to be traded or released from their contracts that they signed? it happens all the time, except these soldiers do not make a million dollars and do not have access to things like adequate mental health care. it seems like it is always as james hetfield wrote;

"BACK TO THE FRONT!
you will do what i say when i say,
BACK TO THE FRONT,
you will die when i say you must die,
BACK TO THE FRONT,
you coward, you servant,
you blindman,
BACK TO THE FRONT!!

also you say bring these events to light. how so? when our military has a history of covering things up or protecting the perps with a code of silence?

ONCE DEVIDED

lot easier to hide things when noone will document it.
and I say again I
I stand behind my signiture. behind my word.

IOf you dont have the will dont sign on, easy isnt it. oh but to many saw it as an easy earner. then SEPT 11 happened. So they were sent to work