Global Warming not looking good

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    polaris_x wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    absolutely many will die.. as they always have. i doubt anything we do as a species will stop or even curb that. my contention re: population and sustainability is that its always been a management problem.

    as for the UN... i think they are mainly ineffectual. they are ignored on many things and have no real power that i can see. if handful of countries can, and do play the veto card, whats the point of them? so we can pretend to be one big happy human rights abiding democratic family?

    well ... what i am contending is that if we address climate change - we can curb some of that suffering ..

    largely ineffectual does not have bearing on the information coming from them ... are we to then say their report that the israel's floatilla raid was NOT a violation of international law because they are dysfunctional group?

    i didnt need the UN to tell me israels raid on the gaza flotilla was a breach of international law. what i need to see and what the palestinians desperately need is for those members of the UN who are more than capable, to act upon such a violation.

    and yes i agree agree polaris.. we need to address our actions in relation to what we are doing to this planet. i have never had an opinion to the contrary. but what i wont do is freak out and run around saying the sky is falling.
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    catefrances wrote:
    i didnt need the UN to tell me israels raid on the gaza flotilla was a breach of international law. what i need to see and what the palestinians desperately need is for those members of the UN who are more than capable, to act upon such a violation.

    and yes i agree agree polaris.. we need to address our actions in relation to what we are doing to this planet. i have never had an opinion to the contrary. but what i wont do is freak out and run around saying the sky is falling.

    again ... i don't disagree that they are ineffectual ... my question is - should we ignore their findings when they publish reports such as the one on the floatilla simply because they can't make significant changes?

    fair enough - it appears then that we only disagree on the severity of the issue ...
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    polaris_x wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    i didnt need the UN to tell me israels raid on the gaza flotilla was a breach of international law. what i need to see and what the palestinians desperately need is for those members of the UN who are more than capable, to act upon such a violation.

    and yes i agree agree polaris.. we need to address our actions in relation to what we are doing to this planet. i have never had an opinion to the contrary. but what i wont do is freak out and run around saying the sky is falling.

    again ... i don't disagree that they are ineffectual ... my question is - should we ignore their findings when they publish reports such as the one on the floatilla simply because they can't make significant changes?

    fair enough - it appears then that we only disagree on the severity of the issue ...

    no we shouldnt ignore it, but like everything, we should question it nondismissively.

    i knew all along thats all we disagreed on... i was just waiting for you to catch on. ;)
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  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    edited September 2010
    polaris_x wrote:
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    Climate change is something that happens over decades, and honestly, I don't think more carbon dioxide in the air is the problem.

    This is what indicates you don't know what you are talking about. Again - I am trying to say it in the most diplomatic way possible but if you understood the science, then you wouldn't be writing these things.
    I know the science behind it. Higher concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere trap in solar heat energy. It allows the light through, but restricts the heat from radiating into outer space.. We are releasing large amount of carbon dioxide through automobiles, industry, agriculture, so on..

    You're not reading me right, maybe I'm using bad explanations of what I'm trying to get across. Obviously carbon dioxide is the straight forward problem, but 7 billion of us are the cause! Maybe some more than others, but still.. If there were 7 million people instead of 7 billion, we wouldn't have a global warming problem.. That is my point. This planet isn't designed to support 7 billion of us, whether the carbon dioxide is coming from automobiles or it is restricted to coming out of our asses. Get rid of gasoline and there's still a million ways we sucking more than our share of resources from the planet

    Do you get what I'm trying to say? We can put effort into slowing global warming down, but it's still going to happen. Maybe we should consider why there are 7 billion of us demanding more than our own share of energy on a planet that isn't designed to support 7 billion of us.

    Read Ishmael and you'll understand the point I'm trying to make.
    Post edited by LikeAnOcean on
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    Climate change is something that happens over decades, and honestly, I don't think more carbon dioxide in the air is the problem.

    This is what indicates you don't know what you are talking about. Again - I am trying to say it in the most diplomatic way possible but if you understood the science, then you wouldn't be writing these things.
    I know the science behind it. Higher concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere trap in solar heat energy. It allows the light through, but restricts the heat from radiating into outer space.. We are releasing large amount of carbon dioxide through automobiles, industry, agriculture, so on..

    Sorry if I have to be so obvious to get my point across for you. Obviously carbon dioxide is the straight forward problem, but 7 billion of us are the cause! Maybe some more than others, but still.. If there were 7 million people instead of 7 billion, we wouldn't have a global warming problem.. That is my point. This planet isn't designed to support 7 billion of us, wether the carbon dioxide is coming from automobiles or it is restricted to coming out of our asses. Get rid of gasoline and there's still a million ways we are fucking the planet up and releasing excess carbon dioxide.

    Do you get what I'm trying to say? We can put effort into slowing global warming down, but it's still going to happen. Maybe we should consider why there are 7 billion of us demanding more than our own share of energy on a planet that isn't designed to support 7 billion of us.

    im fairly certain ive asked you this question before, if not you then someone else... i could go back and check but i dont want to.

    how do you know how many people the earth was 'designed' to support?
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  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    catefrances wrote:

    im fairly certain ive asked you this question before..

    how do you know how many people the earth was 'designed' to support?

    Because when we relied on nature, nature restricted us to numbers in the hundreds of thousands. When we started controlling nature and the planet through agriculture, our numbers boomed.. in the grand scheme of things, we are sucking more resources from the planet than it evolved us to have. Remember, Ishmael?

    This is all theory, but it makes sense to me. We'll find out in a few years if it all catches up to us I guess. ;)
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    catefrances wrote:

    im fairly certain ive asked you this question before..

    how do you know how many people the earth was 'designed' to support?

    Because when we relied on nature, nature restricted us to numbers in the hundreds of thousands. When we started controlling nature and the planet through agriculture, our numbers boomed.. in the grand scheme of things, we are sucking more resources from the planet than it evolved us to have. Remember, Ishmael?

    This is all theory, but it makes sense to me. We'll find out in a few years if it all catches up to us I guess. ;)

    yes i remember a gorilla telling me the state of things.

    and i understand all that. and i dont condone the raping of the earths resources but think about it this way...
    weve evolved to a point where we are capable of doing just that. this is Nature. and it is our nature. were intelligent enough to invent this technology but were not intelligent to live sustainably. progress??? not in my eyes.
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  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    catefrances wrote:
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    catefrances wrote:

    im fairly certain ive asked you this question before..

    how do you know how many people the earth was 'designed' to support?

    Because when we relied on nature, nature restricted us to numbers in the hundreds of thousands. When we started controlling nature and the planet through agriculture, our numbers boomed.. in the grand scheme of things, we are sucking more resources from the planet than it evolved us to have. Remember, Ishmael?

    This is all theory, but it makes sense to me. We'll find out in a few years if it all catches up to us I guess. ;)

    yes i remember a gorilla telling me the state of things.

    and i understand all that. and i dont condone the raping of the earths resources but think about it this way...
    weve evolved to a point where we are capable of doing just that. this is Nature. and it is our nature. were intelligent enough to invent this technology but were not intelligent to live sustainably. progress??? not in my eyes.
    Nature isn't against killing off species. I agree we are part of nature, but that doesn't mean what we are doing is going to benefit our species in the end. It evolved us to this point and maybe it will evolve us of the planet through our own doings.

    I guess there's just many ways to look at the same thing. I think a lot of us are debating from different angles of the problem.. like arguing if the glass if half empty or if its half full.
  • Commy
    Commy Posts: 4,984
    with profit guiding policy and innovation, the future looks grim imo.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    yes i remember a gorilla telling me the state of things.

    and i understand all that. and i dont condone the raping of the earths resources but think about it this way...
    weve evolved to a point where we are capable of doing just that. this is Nature. and it is our nature. were intelligent enough to invent this technology but were not intelligent to live sustainably. progress??? not in my eyes.
    Nature isn't against killing off species. I agree we are part of nature, but that doesn't mean what we are doing is going to benefit our species in the end. It evolved us to this point and maybe it will evolve us of the planet through our own doings.

    I guess there's just many ways to look at the same thing. I think a lot of us are debating from different angles of the problem.. like arguing if the glass if half empty or if its half full.

    what you just said is what isaid just in different words. :mrgreen:

    i think humans are the most paradoxical species on earth.
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    edited September 2010
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    I know the science behind it. Higher concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere trap in solar heat energy. It allows the light through, but restricts the heat from radiating into outer space.. We are releasing large amount of carbon dioxide through automobiles, industry, agriculture, so on..

    You're not reading me right, maybe I'm using bad explanations of what I'm trying to get across. Obviously carbon dioxide is the straight forward problem, but 7 billion of us are the cause! Maybe some more than others, but still.. If there were 7 million people instead of 7 billion, we wouldn't have a global warming problem.. That is my point. This planet isn't designed to support 7 billion of us, whether the carbon dioxide is coming from automobiles or it is restricted to coming out of our asses. Get rid of gasoline and there's still a million ways we sucking more than our share of resources from the planet

    Do you get what I'm trying to say? We can put effort into slowing global warming down, but it's still going to happen. Maybe we should consider why there are 7 billion of us demanding more than our own share of energy on a planet that isn't designed to support 7 billion of us.

    Read Ishmael and you'll understand the point I'm trying to make.

    population definitely plays a significant role in all environmental issues however, as it relates to climate change - it is only significant in so much as yes - 7 billion people living the way we do obviously will contribute much more than 7 million ... having said that tho - we can easily manage our emissions to address climate change but the problem primarily is economic greed and ignorance ... americans produce on average 20 tonnes of emissions a year which is almost double that of japan and germany ... standard of living in these countries are relatively the same ... it's a matter of priorities ...

    i've read ishmael

    edit: canadians are just as bad as americans in terms of our emissions and our use of being a northern country is ridiculous as we are almost double that of norway ...
    Post edited by polaris_x on
  • UpSideDown
    UpSideDown Posts: 1,966
    Commy wrote:
    with profit guiding policy and innovation, the future looks grim imo.

    agreed
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    AH HA!
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  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    polaris_x wrote:
    why is that every several months, there are one of these posts ... i mean - can people say more ignorant things?

    forgive the candor but you skeptics are talking our of your ass ... how many have died in pakistan this year? ... mudslides and floods are ravaging china ... every day you can pretty much read up on an extreme weather event somewhere in the world ...

    the science is very clear on this subject ... do yourself a favour and read up on it instead of reading from people who have agendas or have not educated themselves on the subject ...

    although global warming does confuse people ... it only confuses people who won't bother to educate themselves ... the world IS WARMING ... look at the records of the last 20 years ... all the warmest years on record are in the past 2 decades ... just because one experiences a cold spell - doesn't mean the world isn't warming ... Climate Change is the immediate consequence of Global Warming ...

    :shock:

    Natural disasters happen every year. I’m pretty sure you can look throughout history and every year there were mudslides and severe flooding in different parts of the world every year. Now, these things are terrible but has anyone ever taken this into account that maybe we are a "News Overload" society. I mean earthquakes happen every day in bowels of the earth right? 15 years ago this was not news worthy story but now....it's on Yahoo's home page story #3. Earthquake detected miles below the earths crust. This has been going on for millions of years but no one has ever said anything. There have been mudslides for generations it's just was not as news assessable as it is now.

    But will one of the Pro Climate Change believers comment on the fact that these Vikings were in an area that was not snow covered then it became snow covered and now it's not snow covered anymore. I sense a trend.
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    polaris_x wrote:
    why is that every several months, there are one of these posts ... i mean - can people say more ignorant things?

    forgive the candor but you skeptics are talking our of your ass ... how many have died in pakistan this year? ... mudslides and floods are ravaging china ... every day you can pretty much read up on an extreme weather event somewhere in the world ...

    the science is very clear on this subject ... do yourself a favour and read up on it instead of reading from people who have agendas or have not educated themselves on the subject ...

    although global warming does confuse people ... it only confuses people who won't bother to educate themselves ... the world IS WARMING ... look at the records of the last 20 years ... all the warmest years on record are in the past 2 decades ... just because one experiences a cold spell - doesn't mean the world isn't warming ... Climate Change is the immediate consequence of Global Warming ...

    :shock:

    Natural disasters happen every year. I’m pretty sure you can look throughout history and every year there were mudslides and severe flooding in different parts of the world every year. Now, these things are terrible but has anyone ever taken this into account that maybe we are a "News Overload" society. I mean earthquakes happen every day in bowels of the earth right? 15 years ago this was not news worthy story but now....it's on Yahoo's home page story #3. Earthquake detected miles below the earths crust. This has been going on for millions of years but no one has ever said anything. There have been mudslides for generations it's just was not as news assessable as it is now.

    But will one of the Pro Climate Change believers comment on the fact that these Vikings were in an area that was not snow covered then it became snow covered and now it's not snow covered anymore. I sense a trend.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    shadowcast wrote:
    Natural disasters happen every year. I’m pretty sure you can look throughout history and every year there were mudslides and severe flooding in different parts of the world every year. Now, these things are terrible but has anyone ever taken this into account that maybe we are a "News Overload" society. I mean earthquakes happen every day in bowels of the earth right? 15 years ago this was not news worthy story but now....it's on Yahoo's home page story #3. Earthquake detected miles below the earths crust. This has been going on for millions of years but no one has ever said anything. There have been mudslides for generations it's just was not as news assessable as it is now.

    But will one of the Pro Climate Change believers comment on the fact that these Vikings were in an area that was not snow covered then it became snow covered and now it's not snow covered anymore. I sense a trend.

    sooo ... the fact that there was a natural disaster in 1864 means that humans can't have an influence in creating additional ones in the future!??

    seriously ... read up on the science of global warming ...

    we've had more deaths this weekend in mexico ... and even more displacement of people ... it's only the beginning ...
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    polaris_x wrote:
    shadowcast wrote:
    Natural disasters happen every year. I’m pretty sure you can look throughout history and every year there were mudslides and severe flooding in different parts of the world every year. Now, these things are terrible but has anyone ever taken this into account that maybe we are a "News Overload" society. I mean earthquakes happen every day in bowels of the earth right? 15 years ago this was not news worthy story but now....it's on Yahoo's home page story #3. Earthquake detected miles below the earths crust. This has been going on for millions of years but no one has ever said anything. There have been mudslides for generations it's just was not as news assessable as it is now.

    But will one of the Pro Climate Change believers comment on the fact that these Vikings were in an area that was not snow covered then it became snow covered and now it's not snow covered anymore. I sense a trend.

    sooo ... the fact that there was a natural disaster in 1864 means that humans can't have an influence in creating additional ones in the future!??

    seriously ... read up on the science of global warming ...

    we've had more deaths this weekend in mexico ... and even more displacement of people ... it's only the beginning ...
    Ok.....so whats your theory on the whole Viking artifacts being found?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    shadowcast wrote:
    Ok.....so whats your theory on the whole Viking artifacts being found?

    what vikings are you talking about?
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    polaris_x wrote:
    shadowcast wrote:
    Ok.....so whats your theory on the whole Viking artifacts being found?

    what vikings are you talking about?
    From the original post that started this thread.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100914/lf_ ... _vikings_1
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    shadowcast wrote:
    From the original post that started this thread.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100914/lf_ ... _vikings_1

    this link didn't work but i went back to your original ... i'm not sure what you want comment on as you sent me to an article that pretty much says the ice thaw is caused by global warming ...

    are you suggesting - the evidence of artifacts somehow debunks global warming!? ... if so, can you please clarify?

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