More Canadian politics - Tamil trapped in boat of coast

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    fife wrote:
    catefrances wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    HOLY SHIT!!!!nothing to do with politics, they are trying to jump the queue ahead of legit claims. Send them back immediately and stop these boats from entering our waters period. Canadians pay enough in taces without picking up the expenses of illegals.

    yeah we get them here in australia... those bastards we should just send them back to their war torn countries and be done with them all. :shock: ;)

    come on, you know its not that simple. there are many war torn countries and i don't think its feasible that countries should just accept all of the citizens. its just not possible. also, the added issues is that Canada has stated that they recognize the Tamil tigers to be a terrorist organization. Now, i am not say9ng that these people are terrorists but you have to watch out for that. I would assume every country would do the same thing.

    why would you assume that? do you remember when the maragret thatcher as prime minister of great britain called the ANC a terrorist organisation?

    funny when people speak of globalisation (not saying you are) it only extends economically. i think its a misnomer to vaildate the first worlds raping and subjugation of the 3rd world.
    hear my name
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  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    oh i totally forgot to post about this the other day but i definitely meant to...

    from what i know the people are being held in Maple Ridge, which is right across the water from me.
    They arrived somewhere on the west side of vancouver island i think...
    (sorry I only skimmed this thread)

    I think they had sent a ship within the last couple years as somewhat of a test run for this one (and maybe more to come) and the women and children were a huge integral part to the operation of course, because it changes the dynamics of public opinion greatly...

    Anyways, I'm majorly torn about this as well.
    My mom thinks they should be sent back and come here legally like anybody else has/had to (my dad included)
    But then I said, when you think about it, not everyone has the means to do so legally.
    BUT THEN you hear that they paid 40k to the smugglers to come here...
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • tvismyfriend
    tvismyfriend Posts: 2,118
    polaris_x wrote:
    fife wrote:
    Great day for American politics

    http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/0 ... ogran.html

    Oh shit this is our pro-police and security conservative Canadian government. I guess we spent all our money on that fake pool.

    every arms-length body that used to run independent of gov't is now being micro-managed by harper ... he can't push too much of his agenda thru the house so he uses these agencies to push forth his right-wing agenda ...

    it's really a sad state of affairs ... but sadly, those that vote for him will probably always vote for him ...
    But he dropped GST by two whole percent. The man is a saint. ;)
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    tvismyfriend wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    fife wrote:
    Great day for American politics

    http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/0 ... ogran.html

    Oh shit this is our pro-police and security conservative Canadian government. I guess we spent all our money on that fake pool.

    every arms-length body that used to run independent of gov't is now being micro-managed by harper ... he can't push too much of his agenda thru the house so he uses these agencies to push forth his right-wing agenda ...

    it's really a sad state of affairs ... but sadly, those that vote for him will probably always vote for him ...
    But he dropped GST by two whole percent. The man is a saint. ;)
    He did?
    I thought he just gave BC and Ontario incentives to convert to HST....
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    haffajappa wrote:
    oh i totally forgot to post about this the other day but i definitely meant to...

    from what i know the people are being held in Maple Ridge, which is right across the water from me.
    They arrived somewhere on the west side of vancouver island i think...
    (sorry I only skimmed this thread)

    I think they had sent a ship within the last couple years as somewhat of a test run for this one (and maybe more to come) and the women and children were a huge integral part to the operation of course, because it changes the dynamics of public opinion greatly...

    Anyways, I'm majorly torn about this as well.
    My mom thinks they should be sent back and come here legally like anybody else has/had to (my dad included)
    But then I said, when you think about it, not everyone has the means to do so legally.
    BUT THEN you hear that they paid 40k to the smugglers to come here...

    If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    lukin2006 wrote:

    If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
    yeah like i said i'm torn...
    a part of me really wants to sympathize because a lot of these people might be genuine refugees...
    but then is it fair that other genuine refugees are not skipping the line up and have to wait while these guys float on in?

    and of course if we allow it, it sets a precedent for future boats
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • tvismyfriend
    tvismyfriend Posts: 2,118
    haffajappa wrote:
    tvismyfriend wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    every arms-length body that used to run independent of gov't is now being micro-managed by harper ... he can't push too much of his agenda thru the house so he uses these agencies to push forth his right-wing agenda ...

    it's really a sad state of affairs ... but sadly, those that vote for him will probably always vote for him ...
    But he dropped GST by two whole percent. The man is a saint. ;)
    He did?
    I thought he just gave BC and Ontario incentives to convert to HST....
    I said the man was a saint, not Jesus. ;)
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    lukin2006 wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    oh i totally forgot to post about this the other day but i definitely meant to...

    from what i know the people are being held in Maple Ridge, which is right across the water from me.
    They arrived somewhere on the west side of vancouver island i think...
    (sorry I only skimmed this thread)

    I think they had sent a ship within the last couple years as somewhat of a test run for this one (and maybe more to come) and the women and children were a huge integral part to the operation of course, because it changes the dynamics of public opinion greatly...

    Anyways, I'm majorly torn about this as well.
    My mom thinks they should be sent back and come here legally like anybody else has/had to (my dad included)
    But then I said, when you think about it, not everyone has the means to do so legally.
    BUT THEN you hear that they paid 40k to the smugglers to come here...

    If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.

    actually, I know this guy who works for the Canadian centre for people against torture who once told me that alot of poor people paid alot of money to go somewhere liek canada and america and what actually is teh case is that they must send money back to these load sharks who gave them teh money to start. therefore, yes they may hav epaid 40k but inreality they are slaves to these load sharks.

    This is a international issues that i don't think can be resloved by just saying send them back.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    fife wrote:

    actually, I know this guy who works for the Canadian centre for people against torture who once told me that alot of poor people paid alot of money to go somewhere liek canada and america and what actually is teh case is that they must send money back to these load sharks who gave them teh money to start. therefore, yes they may hav epaid 40k but inreality they are slaves to these load sharks.

    This is a international issues that i don't think can be resloved by just saying send them back.
    we have a large number of filipinos in my area now and i know that this is the case with a lot of them, as i work at a canada post and they are always sending moneygrams that are like their entire paycheques back to the philippines otherwise their families are in debt or something...
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    haffajappa wrote:
    fife wrote:

    actually, I know this guy who works for the Canadian centre for people against torture who once told me that alot of poor people paid alot of money to go somewhere liek canada and america and what actually is teh case is that they must send money back to these load sharks who gave them teh money to start. therefore, yes they may hav epaid 40k but inreality they are slaves to these load sharks.

    This is a international issues that i don't think can be resloved by just saying send them back.
    we have a large number of filipinos in my area now and i know that this is the case with a lot of them, as i work at a canada post and they are always sending moneygrams that are like their entire paycheques back to the philippines otherwise their families are in debt or something...

    so very sad, you try to improve your life and your families life and stuff like this happens.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    haffajappa wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
    yeah like i said i'm torn...
    a part of me really wants to sympathize because a lot of these people might be genuine refugees...
    but then is it fair that other genuine refugees are not skipping the line up and have to wait while these guys float on in?

    and of course if we allow it, it sets a precedent for future boats
    Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    Drowned Out wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
    yeah like i said i'm torn...
    a part of me really wants to sympathize because a lot of these people might be genuine refugees...
    but then is it fair that other genuine refugees are not skipping the line up and have to wait while these guys float on in?

    and of course if we allow it, it sets a precedent for future boats
    Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?

    here is a link to how to apply for refugee status in canada

    http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/i ... ly-how.asp

    I think people think that being a refugee means you can stay here forever which is not the case. you can be denied and sent back home and you pay for it.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    Drowned Out wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
    yeah like i said i'm torn...
    a part of me really wants to sympathize because a lot of these people might be genuine refugees...
    but then is it fair that other genuine refugees are not skipping the line up and have to wait while these guys float on in?

    and of course if we allow it, it sets a precedent for future boats
    Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?
    I think Canada accepts 50% of refugee claims.
    You have to claim yourself as a refugee and wait to be approved before you come over here, I think

    I think the problem with this one is people question the validity of a lot of their claims.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    [
    Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?[/quote]
    I think Canada accepts 50% of refugee claims.
    You have to claim yourself as a refugee and wait to be approved before you come over here, I think

    I think the problem with this one is people question the validity of a lot of their claims.[/quote]

    no you don't have to wait til approved to come here. there are different types of status in Canada. 1) refugees claimant 2) refugee 3) perm. resident 4) Canadian citizen but not born here and then natural citizen.

    these people would be first refugee claimants
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
    But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    Drowned Out wrote:
    The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
    But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.

    no that is not correct. anyone can apply to come to canada as a refugee claimant. except from teh us and other countries which is on teh 3rd safe party country list.

    as soon as you make a claim you can stay until the hearing ends and a decision is made. after that decision is made that is when you are allow to stay or must go home. all cases get hearing unless the case if from the 3rd safe party list.

    does that make sense?
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    fife wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
    But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.

    no that is not correct. anyone can apply to come to canada as a refugee claimant. except from teh us and other countries which is on teh 3rd safe party country list.

    as soon as you make a claim you can stay until the hearing ends and a decision is made. after that decision is made that is when you are allow to stay or must go home. all cases get hearing unless the case if from the 3rd safe party list.

    does that make sense?
    yup...but what did I get wrong? Just the 'imminent danger' part? I have never said they can stay forever or anything...I was just trying to determine whether you had to apply as a refugee before you came here ....cause as an immigrant who is not claiming refugee status, you would pretty much have to, otherwise you'd be here illegally by the time your application was processed.....
    Whereas, if you're claiming refugee status, you can just do so after you land (regardless of validity, you can try)....thus, telling someone to 'get in line' with other refugees doesn't make much sense to me as the line up is in the country....right? :D
    bah...I should just stop posting until I have time to read up on this a bit :lol:
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    My boyfriend came here as a refugee, i only found that out a couple months ago... i had no idea
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    Drowned Out wrote:
    fife wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
    But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.

    no that is not correct. anyone can apply to come to canada as a refugee claimant. except from teh us and other countries which is on teh 3rd safe party country list.

    as soon as you make a claim you can stay until the hearing ends and a decision is made. after that decision is made that is when you are allow to stay or must go home. all cases get hearing unless the case if from the 3rd safe party list.

    does that make sense?
    yup...but what did I get wrong? Just the 'imminent danger' part? I have never said they can stay forever or anything...I was just trying to determine whether you had to apply as a refugee before you came here ....cause as an immigrant who is not claiming refugee status, you would pretty much have to, otherwise you'd be here illegally by the time your application was processed.....
    Whereas, if you're claiming refugee status, you can just do so after you land (regardless of validity, you can try)....thus, telling someone to 'get in line' with other refugees doesn't make much sense to me as the line up is in the country....right? :D
    bah...I should just stop posting until I have time to read up on this a bit :lol:

    what you got wrong is that these people are not immigrants they are refugee claimants. an immigrant has somewhat a more secure status in canada. i.e. harder to deport.
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    haffajappa wrote:
    My boyfriend came here as a refugee, i only found that out a couple months ago... i had no idea

    congrats, where from?

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