If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
yeah like i said i'm torn...
a part of me really wants to sympathize because a lot of these people might be genuine refugees...
but then is it fair that other genuine refugees are not skipping the line up and have to wait while these guys float on in?
and of course if we allow it, it sets a precedent for future boats
Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?
If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
yeah like i said i'm torn...
a part of me really wants to sympathize because a lot of these people might be genuine refugees...
but then is it fair that other genuine refugees are not skipping the line up and have to wait while these guys float on in?
and of course if we allow it, it sets a precedent for future boats
Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?
here is a link to how to apply for refugee status in canada
I think people think that being a refugee means you can stay here forever which is not the case. you can be denied and sent back home and you pay for it.
If they paid 40 k, then they really are not poor, or that money is coming from the tamil community within Canada and they should be investigated by the RCMP, if wrong doing is taking place charges need to be laid. The Navy needs to intercept these ships and turn them back, sorry if people don't like the tough stance.
yeah like i said i'm torn...
a part of me really wants to sympathize because a lot of these people might be genuine refugees...
but then is it fair that other genuine refugees are not skipping the line up and have to wait while these guys float on in?
and of course if we allow it, it sets a precedent for future boats
Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?
I think Canada accepts 50% of refugee claims.
You have to claim yourself as a refugee and wait to be approved before you come over here, I think
I think the problem with this one is people question the validity of a lot of their claims.
[
Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?[/quote]
I think Canada accepts 50% of refugee claims.
You have to claim yourself as a refugee and wait to be approved before you come over here, I think
I think the problem with this one is people question the validity of a lot of their claims.[/quote]
no you don't have to wait til approved to come here. there are different types of status in Canada. 1) refugees claimant 2) refugee 3) perm. resident 4) Canadian citizen but not born here and then natural citizen.
The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.
The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.
no that is not correct. anyone can apply to come to canada as a refugee claimant. except from teh us and other countries which is on teh 3rd safe party country list.
as soon as you make a claim you can stay until the hearing ends and a decision is made. after that decision is made that is when you are allow to stay or must go home. all cases get hearing unless the case if from the 3rd safe party list.
The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.
no that is not correct. anyone can apply to come to canada as a refugee claimant. except from teh us and other countries which is on teh 3rd safe party country list.
as soon as you make a claim you can stay until the hearing ends and a decision is made. after that decision is made that is when you are allow to stay or must go home. all cases get hearing unless the case if from the 3rd safe party list.
does that make sense?
yup...but what did I get wrong? Just the 'imminent danger' part? I have never said they can stay forever or anything...I was just trying to determine whether you had to apply as a refugee before you came here ....cause as an immigrant who is not claiming refugee status, you would pretty much have to, otherwise you'd be here illegally by the time your application was processed.....
Whereas, if you're claiming refugee status, you can just do so after you land (regardless of validity, you can try)....thus, telling someone to 'get in line' with other refugees doesn't make much sense to me as the line up is in the country....right?
bah...I should just stop posting until I have time to read up on this a bit
The govt site says you can apply after you land....so I think that's the difference...an immigrant can't come here with the intention of staying; they have to apply to stay and the proccess is longer than their visa allows them to stay, so they must do so from home...whereas a refugee, because of imminent danger, can claim status after they get here...
But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.
no that is not correct. anyone can apply to come to canada as a refugee claimant. except from teh us and other countries which is on teh 3rd safe party country list.
as soon as you make a claim you can stay until the hearing ends and a decision is made. after that decision is made that is when you are allow to stay or must go home. all cases get hearing unless the case if from the 3rd safe party list.
does that make sense?
yup...but what did I get wrong? Just the 'imminent danger' part? I have never said they can stay forever or anything...I was just trying to determine whether you had to apply as a refugee before you came here ....cause as an immigrant who is not claiming refugee status, you would pretty much have to, otherwise you'd be here illegally by the time your application was processed.....
Whereas, if you're claiming refugee status, you can just do so after you land (regardless of validity, you can try)....thus, telling someone to 'get in line' with other refugees doesn't make much sense to me as the line up is in the country....right?
bah...I should just stop posting until I have time to read up on this a bit
what you got wrong is that these people are not immigrants they are refugee claimants. an immigrant has somewhat a more secure status in canada. i.e. harder to deport.
My boyfriend came here as a refugee, i only found that out a couple months ago... i had no idea
congrats, where from?
Guatemala
He was pretty young.
We both came to the country when we were babies... Only my mom is Canadian so that helps and it also helps I came from a rich country lol
My boyfriend came here as a refugee, i only found that out a couple months ago... i had no idea
congrats, where from?
Guatemala
He was pretty young.
We both came to the country when we were babies... Only my mom is Canadian so that helps and it also helps I came from a rich country lol
yes having a parent born in Canada does help. I don't think you had to apply for anything then right as you have one parent originally from here. or did she have to sponsor you. i actually don't know that.
Guatemala
He was pretty young.
We both came to the country when we were babies... Only my mom is Canadian so that helps and it also helps I came from a rich country lol
yes having a parent born in Canada does help. I don't think you had to apply for anything then right as you have one parent originally from here. or did she have to sponsor you. i actually don't know that.
Nah, its easy as pie for me and my brother.
I wasn't a refugee or anything. The only sucky thing for us is that in Japan they don't allow you to have dual citizenship, so we techincally can't have our Japanese passports anymore.
As for my father, however, he would have to be sponsored.
I believe you have to sponsor for 3 years before you are not responsible for them anymore. Until then if they decide to leave you while in the country you still gotta pay for all their expenses and everything.
My father is still a permanent resident - by choice - as he doesn't want to relinquish his Japanese citizenship.
And really the only difference I think is that he cannot vote... which he isn't fussed, he's happy living in a beach town making sushi for happy island folk.
what you got wrong is that these people are not immigrants they are refugee claimants. an immigrant has somewhat a more secure status in canada. i.e. harder to deport.
Ok, now im confused....where did I say they were imigrants? I was comparing in order to show that landed immigrant = lineup....refugee = show up and ask to stay....at least I was trying to
1) Ordinarily, you don't file for refugee status prior to arrival. Refugees are (generally) fleeing from war, conflict or persecution and is not a process where you can leisurely plan your course.
2) The navy can't just turn boats away. International law dictates that those seeking refugee status are guaranteed the rights to shelter and proper process before judgement is made as to the legitimacy of their claims. To turn boats away (Thailand just turned away boats of refugees fleeing from Burma) is a violation of international law and in many cases may be condemning legitimate refugees to death or torture IF they are able to return. In many cases, these boats are unable to return and many die at sea.
3) As pointed out... even if fees were paid to traffickers, that does not necessarily null and void the fact that they may be a refugee. You could be a middle class or wealthy individual through honest means, but if a war breaks out at home, or if a tyrannical government decides to take you or your people out and you can afford to pay what you need to for the safety of your family, you are still a refugee.
1) Ordinarily, you don't file for refugee status prior to arrival. Refugees are (generally) fleeing from war, conflict or persecution and is not a process where you can leisurely plan your course.
2) The navy can't just turn boats away. International law dictates that those seeking refugee status are guaranteed the rights to shelter and proper process before judgement is made as to the legitimacy of their claims. To turn boats away (Thailand just turned away boats of refugees fleeing from Burma) is a violation of international law and in many cases may be condemning legitimate refugees to death or torture IF they are able to return. In many cases, these boats are unable to return and many die at sea.
3) As pointed out... even if fees were paid to traffickers, that does not necessarily null and void the fact that they may be a refugee. You could be a middle class or wealthy individual through honest means, but if a war breaks out at home, or if a tyrannical government decides to take you or your people out and you can afford to pay what you need to for the safety of your family, you are still a refugee.
Yeah...
Like I said i'm torn but I think a big issue on this one is the legitimacy of whether or not they are refugees or part of the tamil tigers
1) Ordinarily, you don't file for refugee status prior to arrival. Refugees are (generally) fleeing from war, conflict or persecution and is not a process where you can leisurely plan your course.
2) The navy can't just turn boats away. International law dictates that those seeking refugee status are guaranteed the rights to shelter and proper process before judgement is made as to the legitimacy of their claims. To turn boats away (Thailand just turned away boats of refugees fleeing from Burma) is a violation of international law and in many cases may be condemning legitimate refugees to death or torture IF they are able to return. In many cases, these boats are unable to return and many die at sea.
3) As pointed out... even if fees were paid to traffickers, that does not necessarily null and void the fact that they may be a refugee. You could be a middle class or wealthy individual through honest means, but if a war breaks out at home, or if a tyrannical government decides to take you or your people out and you can afford to pay what you need to for the safety of your family, you are still a refugee.
Yeah...
Like I said i'm torn but I think a big issue on this one is the legitimacy of whether or not they are refugees or part of the tamil tigers
That would be very interesting. Not sure what the Canadian official policy is towards the Tigers. They are freedom fighters to some and terrorists to others.
1) Ordinarily, you don't file for refugee status prior to arrival. Refugees are (generally) fleeing from war, conflict or persecution and is not a process where you can leisurely plan your course.
2) The navy can't just turn boats away. International law dictates that those seeking refugee status are guaranteed the rights to shelter and proper process before judgement is made as to the legitimacy of their claims. To turn boats away (Thailand just turned away boats of refugees fleeing from Burma) is a violation of international law and in many cases may be condemning legitimate refugees to death or torture IF they are able to return. In many cases, these boats are unable to return and many die at sea.
3) As pointed out... even if fees were paid to traffickers, that does not necessarily null and void the fact that they may be a refugee. You could be a middle class or wealthy individual through honest means, but if a war breaks out at home, or if a tyrannical government decides to take you or your people out and you can afford to pay what you need to for the safety of your family, you are still a refugee.
Yeah...
Like I said i'm torn but I think a big issue on this one is the legitimacy of whether or not they are refugees or part of the tamil tigers
That would be very interesting. Not sure what the Canadian official policy is towards the Tigers. They are freedom fighters to some and terrorists to others.
the Canadian government has stated that they believe that the Tamils tigers are a terrorist organization.
the subtext of this issue is the demonizing of these refugee claimants by the current gov't ... without actually having any info - they immediately went on a PR campaign of labelling these people as potential terrorists in an attempt to form or shape public opinion ...
like others have mentioned - we are bound by laws to shelter these people until they can figure out who they are ... in listening to a piece on cbc radio - it was interesting to hear tho that many of these people pass a bunch of other countries that would be in a similar position but canada is where they want to go come hell or high water ...
my personal take is that if these people are legitimate refugees who would be persecuted if sent back home and not because they actually committed a crime - we need to afford them that status however, i do feel for all the people that are trying to come to canada through legitimate means that can't because of our strict criteria (point system) ... i have two friends living in NYC that would love to move to toronto but they don't think they could meet the requirements ... they both have post-graduate degrees - she is getting her phd and he is getting his second masters degree ...
In other news, in case people think i am just going against the harper government here is another great story about our more liberal friends in Ontario.
the subtext of this issue is the demonizing of these refugee claimants by the current gov't ... without actually having any info - they immediately went on a PR campaign of labelling these people as potential terrorists in an attempt to form or shape public opinion ...
like others have mentioned - we are bound by laws to shelter these people until they can figure out who they are ... in listening to a piece on cbc radio - it was interesting to hear tho that many of these people pass a bunch of other countries that would be in a similar position but canada is where they want to go come hell or high water ...
my personal take is that if these people are legitimate refugees who would be persecuted if sent back home and not because they actually committed a crime - we need to afford them that status however, i do feel for all the people that are trying to come to canada through legitimate means that can't because of our strict criteria (point system) ... i have two friends living in NYC that would love to move to toronto but they don't think they could meet the requirements ... they both have post-graduate degrees - she is getting her phd and he is getting his second masters degree ...
the subtext of this issue is the demonizing of these refugee claimants by the current gov't ... without actually having any info - they immediately went on a PR campaign of labelling these people as potential terrorists in an attempt to form or shape public opinion ...
like others have mentioned - we are bound by laws to shelter these people until they can figure out who they are ... in listening to a piece on cbc radio - it was interesting to hear tho that many of these people pass a bunch of other countries that would be in a similar position but canada is where they want to go come hell or high water ...
my personal take is that if these people are legitimate refugees who would be persecuted if sent back home and not because they actually committed a crime - we need to afford them that status however, i do feel for all the people that are trying to come to canada through legitimate means that can't because of our strict criteria (point system) ... i have two friends living in NYC that would love to move to toronto but they don't think they could meet the requirements ... they both have post-graduate degrees - she is getting her phd and he is getting his second masters degree ...
theres a difference between want and need.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
all these passengers on these boats pass numerous countries which affords them the same rights internationally ... for many - it's canada or bust ... if simply escaping persecution was their intent - there are many other places they can stop ...
all these passengers on these boats pass numerous countries which affords them the same rights internationally ... for many - it's canada or bust ... if simply escaping persecution was their intent - there are many other places they can stop ...
I never thought of that... how come they never pull into Seattle?
I never thought of that... how come they never pull into Seattle?
although not exactly sure ... but canada is like one of the top places in the world to live ... our social infrastructure is much better equiped for refugees and immigrants ... i would say if we weren't a northern climate - many more would try to come here ...
I never thought of that... how come they never pull into Seattle?
although not exactly sure ... but canada is like one of the top places in the world to live ... our social infrastructure is much better equiped for refugees and immigrants ... i would say if we weren't a northern climate - many more would try to come here ...
They like all the goodies that us taxpayers pay for, but they get just by showing up in a boat and claiming to be a refugee. Until their claims are heard who supports them? who feeds them? who provides medical? I'll tell you who the taxpayer!!! From what I understand they are still dealing with refugees from as much as 2 years back. Then if approved what do they do? Who supports them?
My guess the taxpayer. Sorry they can leave anytime, the only immigrants I want are ones who can contribute to our society in a positive way, as far as I'm concerned all new comers to this country should have to pay for medical for at least 5 years before they go on the same system we do, they should have to attend mandatory education class's explaining our way of life paid for by them, they should be able to read, write and speak English or French. I know these views won't be popular with many on this board, but I don't really care. I worked with a fellow who had a stroke and after 30 years of working gets very little fucking help from the government, but yet they got millions to send to Pakistan and millions more to waste dealing with these refugees. Start by helping our own first.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I never thought of that... how come they never pull into Seattle?
although not exactly sure ... but canada is like one of the top places in the world to live ... our social infrastructure is much better equiped for refugees and immigrants ... i would say if we weren't a northern climate - many more would try to come here ...
They like all the goodies that us taxpayers pay for, but they get just by showing up in a boat and claiming to be a refugee. Until their claims are heard who supports them? who feeds them? who provides medical? I'll tell you who the taxpayer!!! From what I understand they are still dealing with refugees from as much as 2 years back. Then if approved what do they do? Who supports them?
My guess the taxpayer. Sorry they can leave anytime, the only immigrants I want are ones who can contribute to our society in a positive way, as far as I'm concerned all new comers to this country should have to pay for medical for at least 5 years before they go on the same system we do, they should have to attend mandatory education class's explaining our way of life paid for by them, they should be able to read, write and speak English or French. I know these views won't be popular with many on this board, but I don't really care. I worked with a fellow who had a stroke and after 30 years of working gets very little fucking help from the government, but yet they got millions to send to Pakistan and millions more to waste dealing with these refugees. Start by helping our own first.
Yeah but technically didn't someone say it's international law not to send them back?
So any other country would have to pay as well...
I see your side of the argument (a lot of people I know feel the same) but you have to think in terms of legitimate refugee's lives... education and a high enough income to pay for health care for 5 years isn't as feasible as you may think... it's not a luxury that many other people have.
I never thought of that... how come they never pull into Seattle?
although not exactly sure ... but canada is like one of the top places in the world to live ... our social infrastructure is much better equiped for refugees and immigrants ... i would say if we weren't a northern climate - many more would try to come here ...
They like all the goodies that us taxpayers pay for, but they get just by showing up in a boat and claiming to be a refugee. Until their claims are heard who supports them? who feeds them? who provides medical? I'll tell you who the taxpayer!!! From what I understand they are still dealing with refugees from as much as 2 years back. Then if approved what do they do? Who supports them?
My guess the taxpayer. Sorry they can leave anytime, the only immigrants I want are ones who can contribute to our society in a positive way, as far as I'm concerned all new comers to this country should have to pay for medical for at least 5 years before they go on the same system we do, they should have to attend mandatory education class's explaining our way of life paid for by them, they should be able to read, write and speak English or French. I know these views won't be popular with many on this board, but I don't really care. I worked with a fellow who had a stroke and after 30 years of working gets very little fucking help from the government, but yet they got millions to send to Pakistan and millions more to waste dealing with these refugees. Start by helping our own first.
While i understand some of the things you are saying i can't agree to all of them. To begin, you right away are stating that these people "will not contribute to our society in a positive way" which is impossible to know. secondly, what is exactly the Canadian way that you want to teach? many people here would say that helping those who have less is the Canadian way. that why you have the health care system also. Every year we are ranked one of the top countries to live in, why? because of what we believe. we believe in universal health care, we believe in multiculturalism, we believe in taking care of others. WE BELIEVE IN HOCKEY as the greatest sport . sometimes we get ripped off because of it but that is who we are.
I under the frustration about how our government spends money, but i do think that there are situation in which yes one country may have problems but when you compare them to another country I.e. the major flood in Pakistan, we understand that the need is more there.
So, you're right, they have passed through a number of countries that technically could have sheltered them, however not all countries abide by international law. For example, a boat load of Burmese refugees was heading to Thailand when the Thai border patrol illegally turned them away. This led to the deaths of thousands of Burmese refugees who had few supplies or provisions to take them beyond Thailand. There are many other examples and perhaps, the refugee process may not be quite as fair as the Canadian process.
As to only accepting refugees who "contribute in a positive way", studies have shown that refugees are often the most loyal and productive immigrants. To insinuate that they are all parasitic drains on the system is a needless attack. God forbid you are ever in a situation where you are no longer safe at home.
The "take care of your own first" arguments get old. Seriously. If we truly believe all human life is equal than borders should really mean very little when life is at stake. Yes, there is poverty and suffering at home, but there is a moral and ethical responsibility to help others as well.
although not exactly sure ... but canada is like one of the top places in the world to live ... our social infrastructure is much better equiped for refugees and immigrants ... i would say if we weren't a northern climate - many more would try to come here ...
They like all the goodies that us taxpayers pay for, but they get just by showing up in a boat and claiming to be a refugee. Until their claims are heard who supports them? who feeds them? who provides medical? I'll tell you who the taxpayer!!! From what I understand they are still dealing with refugees from as much as 2 years back. Then if approved what do they do? Who supports them?
My guess the taxpayer. Sorry they can leave anytime, the only immigrants I want are ones who can contribute to our society in a positive way, as far as I'm concerned all new comers to this country should have to pay for medical for at least 5 years before they go on the same system we do, they should have to attend mandatory education class's explaining our way of life paid for by them, they should be able to read, write and speak English or French. I know these views won't be popular with many on this board, but I don't really care. I worked with a fellow who had a stroke and after 30 years of working gets very little fucking help from the government, but yet they got millions to send to Pakistan and millions more to waste dealing with these refugees. Start by helping our own first.
Yeah but technically didn't someone say it's international law not to send them back?
So any other country would have to pay as well...
I see your side of the argument (a lot of people I know feel the same) but you have to think in terms of legitimate refugee's lives... education and a high enough income to pay for health care for 5 years isn't as feasible as you may think... it's not a luxury that many other people have.
We can barely afford the health care we have in this country and in particular Ontario and many of these refugees end up in Toronto so their health care cost fall onto the shoulders of an already overtaxed province.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Comments
here is a link to how to apply for refugee status in canada
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/i ... ly-how.asp
I think people think that being a refugee means you can stay here forever which is not the case. you can be denied and sent back home and you pay for it.
You have to claim yourself as a refugee and wait to be approved before you come over here, I think
I think the problem with this one is people question the validity of a lot of their claims.
Is there a line up for refugees? I honestly don't know how it all works...but I always thought a refugee just kinda showed up on your door step asking for help...telling them to get in line with other immigrants (in other words - send them back) is basically denying them refugee status without investigating the claim, no?[/quote]
I think Canada accepts 50% of refugee claims.
You have to claim yourself as a refugee and wait to be approved before you come over here, I think
I think the problem with this one is people question the validity of a lot of their claims.[/quote]
no you don't have to wait til approved to come here. there are different types of status in Canada. 1) refugees claimant 2) refugee 3) perm. resident 4) Canadian citizen but not born here and then natural citizen.
these people would be first refugee claimants
But ya, I have no idea what should be done. I don't know much about the supposedly-over conflict in Sri-Lanka, so it's hard for me to have an opinion on whether they have a valid human rights claim.
no that is not correct. anyone can apply to come to canada as a refugee claimant. except from teh us and other countries which is on teh 3rd safe party country list.
as soon as you make a claim you can stay until the hearing ends and a decision is made. after that decision is made that is when you are allow to stay or must go home. all cases get hearing unless the case if from the 3rd safe party list.
does that make sense?
Whereas, if you're claiming refugee status, you can just do so after you land (regardless of validity, you can try)....thus, telling someone to 'get in line' with other refugees doesn't make much sense to me as the line up is in the country....right?
bah...I should just stop posting until I have time to read up on this a bit
what you got wrong is that these people are not immigrants they are refugee claimants. an immigrant has somewhat a more secure status in canada. i.e. harder to deport.
congrats, where from?
He was pretty young.
We both came to the country when we were babies... Only my mom is Canadian so that helps and it also helps I came from a rich country lol
yes having a parent born in Canada does help. I don't think you had to apply for anything then right as you have one parent originally from here. or did she have to sponsor you. i actually don't know that.
I wasn't a refugee or anything. The only sucky thing for us is that in Japan they don't allow you to have dual citizenship, so we techincally can't have our Japanese passports anymore.
As for my father, however, he would have to be sponsored.
I believe you have to sponsor for 3 years before you are not responsible for them anymore. Until then if they decide to leave you while in the country you still gotta pay for all their expenses and everything.
My father is still a permanent resident - by choice - as he doesn't want to relinquish his Japanese citizenship.
And really the only difference I think is that he cannot vote... which he isn't fussed, he's happy living in a beach town making sushi for happy island folk.
1) Ordinarily, you don't file for refugee status prior to arrival. Refugees are (generally) fleeing from war, conflict or persecution and is not a process where you can leisurely plan your course.
2) The navy can't just turn boats away. International law dictates that those seeking refugee status are guaranteed the rights to shelter and proper process before judgement is made as to the legitimacy of their claims. To turn boats away (Thailand just turned away boats of refugees fleeing from Burma) is a violation of international law and in many cases may be condemning legitimate refugees to death or torture IF they are able to return. In many cases, these boats are unable to return and many die at sea.
3) As pointed out... even if fees were paid to traffickers, that does not necessarily null and void the fact that they may be a refugee. You could be a middle class or wealthy individual through honest means, but if a war breaks out at home, or if a tyrannical government decides to take you or your people out and you can afford to pay what you need to for the safety of your family, you are still a refugee.
Like I said i'm torn but I think a big issue on this one is the legitimacy of whether or not they are refugees or part of the tamil tigers
That would be very interesting. Not sure what the Canadian official policy is towards the Tigers. They are freedom fighters to some and terrorists to others.
the Canadian government has stated that they believe that the Tamils tigers are a terrorist organization.
like others have mentioned - we are bound by laws to shelter these people until they can figure out who they are ... in listening to a piece on cbc radio - it was interesting to hear tho that many of these people pass a bunch of other countries that would be in a similar position but canada is where they want to go come hell or high water ...
my personal take is that if these people are legitimate refugees who would be persecuted if sent back home and not because they actually committed a crime - we need to afford them that status however, i do feel for all the people that are trying to come to canada through legitimate means that can't because of our strict criteria (point system) ... i have two friends living in NYC that would love to move to toronto but they don't think they could meet the requirements ... they both have post-graduate degrees - she is getting her phd and he is getting his second masters degree ...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/ ... ficit.html
amazing eh!
theres a difference between want and need.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
all these passengers on these boats pass numerous countries which affords them the same rights internationally ... for many - it's canada or bust ... if simply escaping persecution was their intent - there are many other places they can stop ...
although not exactly sure ... but canada is like one of the top places in the world to live ... our social infrastructure is much better equiped for refugees and immigrants ... i would say if we weren't a northern climate - many more would try to come here ...
They like all the goodies that us taxpayers pay for, but they get just by showing up in a boat and claiming to be a refugee. Until their claims are heard who supports them? who feeds them? who provides medical? I'll tell you who the taxpayer!!! From what I understand they are still dealing with refugees from as much as 2 years back. Then if approved what do they do? Who supports them?
My guess the taxpayer. Sorry they can leave anytime, the only immigrants I want are ones who can contribute to our society in a positive way, as far as I'm concerned all new comers to this country should have to pay for medical for at least 5 years before they go on the same system we do, they should have to attend mandatory education class's explaining our way of life paid for by them, they should be able to read, write and speak English or French. I know these views won't be popular with many on this board, but I don't really care. I worked with a fellow who had a stroke and after 30 years of working gets very little fucking help from the government, but yet they got millions to send to Pakistan and millions more to waste dealing with these refugees. Start by helping our own first.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
So any other country would have to pay as well...
I see your side of the argument (a lot of people I know feel the same) but you have to think in terms of legitimate refugee's lives... education and a high enough income to pay for health care for 5 years isn't as feasible as you may think... it's not a luxury that many other people have.
While i understand some of the things you are saying i can't agree to all of them. To begin, you right away are stating that these people "will not contribute to our society in a positive way" which is impossible to know. secondly, what is exactly the Canadian way that you want to teach? many people here would say that helping those who have less is the Canadian way. that why you have the health care system also. Every year we are ranked one of the top countries to live in, why? because of what we believe. we believe in universal health care, we believe in multiculturalism, we believe in taking care of others. WE BELIEVE IN HOCKEY as the greatest sport
I under the frustration about how our government spends money, but i do think that there are situation in which yes one country may have problems but when you compare them to another country I.e. the major flood in Pakistan, we understand that the need is more there.
As to only accepting refugees who "contribute in a positive way", studies have shown that refugees are often the most loyal and productive immigrants. To insinuate that they are all parasitic drains on the system is a needless attack. God forbid you are ever in a situation where you are no longer safe at home.
The "take care of your own first" arguments get old. Seriously. If we truly believe all human life is equal than borders should really mean very little when life is at stake. Yes, there is poverty and suffering at home, but there is a moral and ethical responsibility to help others as well.
We can barely afford the health care we have in this country and in particular Ontario and many of these refugees end up in Toronto so their health care cost fall onto the shoulders of an already overtaxed province.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon