That would suck! How long does it take him to get through?
it's usually about 20 mins ... based on our 6:30 am crossings to catch a flight from buffalo ... i'm lucky in that i'm usually in another car so we just go right thru ...
That is a bad break for your friend. I guess if someone named John Smith became a "person of interest" there would be quite a few pissed-off John Smiths in the world.
I thought that the Buffalo border was pretty easy to get through. Didn't some drunk guys from Toronto get a ten foot tall wooden statue of Thurman Thomas through there last year?
As an Israeli, I think this idiot girl should definately get some jail time, but to say that this is a generelization of all of Israel is rediculous.
this particular incident isn't a generalization of all of Israel. However, this is a clear side effect of Israeli occupation. An occupation by default dehumanizes the people it's occupying. That's the problem here. She's taking a picture with these blindfolded Palestinians as if they're deer she just hunted down, or some fish she just caught.
well ... i wouldn't go so far as that ... in guantanamo, they had barking dogs in their faces and they were forced into sexual positions for shits and giggles ...
actually Israeli prisons quite often torture Palestinian detainees, and there are even reports about sexual assault as a form of torture (which was I think even used on children).
Most of the people being detained are wanted for possible terrorist activity or connection to such activities. Many of them are dangerous and would do harm to the Israeli solders if presented with the opportunity.
This is a lie.
"From the beginning of the intifada (December 9, 1987) until today, thousands of Palestinians have been held in administrative detention for periods ranging from six months to several years.
Administrative detention is detention without charge or trial that is authorized by administrative order rather than by judicial decree. Under international law, it is allowed under certain circumstances. However, because of the serious injury to due-process rights inherent in this measure and the obvious danger of its abuse, international law has placed rigid restrictions on its application. According to international law, administrative detention can be used only in the most exceptional cases, as the last means available for preventing danger that cannot be thwarted by less harmful means.
Israel's use of administrative detention blatantly violates these restrictions. It is carried out under the thick cover of privilege, which denies detainees the possibility of mounting a proper defense. Over the years, Israel has administratively detained thousands of Palestinian for prolonged periods of time, without prosecuting them, without informing them of the charges against them, and without allowing them or their attorneys to study the evidence, making a mockery of the protections specified in Israeli and international law to protect the right to liberty and due process, the right of defendants to state their case, and the presumption of innocence."
The blind folding, from my point of view, serves mostly as a deterrent to prevent them from planning any kind of attack while being held. I do not think that it is always needed, but sometimes yes.
As for the handcuffing, that in my eyes is a must when transferring detainees. Most of the people being detained are wanted for possible terrorist activity or connection to such activities. Many of them are dangerous and would do harm to the Israeli solders if presented with the opportunity.
uhhh ... is there no innocent until proven guilty notion in israel? ... are you truly a democracy that respects human rights if you are handcuffing and blindfolding just people of interest? ... many of these guys get let go after questioning ...
we're not talking about actual people who committed crimes - these are just people they want to question and it could be for whatever reason ...
If the detained group was familiar with each other, then the blindfolds would serve to cut off communication by eye contact. Judging by the pictures, they appear to be in a make-shift (i hope) detention center. It is probably for safety protocol.
Typically is US jails, suspects are handcuffed or held in secured detention for a period of time (24-48 hours) until it is determined if charges will be brought up against them. They are usually not blindfolded, but those suspects are usually lone individuals not capable of instigating a concerted escape / attack.
Jason P, I'm afraid you're misunderstanding the situation entirely. This isn't US jails, this is an occupation. Occupations dehumanize and terrorize the indigenous population. Just look at this quote:
""I wanted to see if it was possible to see Palestinians as human beings..."
'Facebook photos of soldiers posing with bound Palestinians are the norm'
Rights group Breaking the Silence refutes IDF claim that photos posted by female soldier under the heading 'the time of my life' are an anomaly.
Facebook photos depicting Israel Defense Forces soldiers pictured alongside handcuffed and blindfolded Palestinian detainees represent the norm, not the exception, in IDF conduct, an Israeli human rights group said on Tuesday, thus refuting an official army statement claiming the opposite.
Photographs uploaded by Eden Abergil released earlier this week and labeled "IDF – the best time of my life," sparked massive public outrage. The photos depicted Abergil smiling next to Palestinian prisoners with their hands bound and their eyes covered.
A comment attached to one of the photos of the soldier smiling in front of two blindfold men and posted by one of Abergil's friends read "That looks really sexy for you," with Abergil's response reading: "I wonder if he is on Facebook too – I'll have to tag him in the photo."
An IDF spokesman had issued a response on Monday, saying that "on the face of it the behavior exhibited by the soldier is base and crude."
In a statement released Tuesday by Breaking the Silence, an organization that collects testimonies of Israeli soldiers on alleged abuse of Palestinians in the territories, the group said that while the IDF claimed to be "shocked" by Abergil's photos, it did not represent "the ugly behavior of just one person."
The statement released in a Facebook page called "The Norm that IDF Spokesman Avi Benayahu Denies," also included several graphic photos depicting soldiers posing next to the bodies of suspected militants as well as next to handcuffed detainees [viewer discretion is advised].
In the Facebook page, Breaking the Silence said that the norms the photos allegedly expose were the" necessary result of a long-term military control of a civilian population."
"We suggest that the IDF Spokesman not insult the intelligence of the Israeli public, and clarify that it is a widespread phenomenon, not an aberration caused by a single soldier," the statement said, adding that the enclosed photos were taken at several times during the last ten years and represented only a "preliminary batch."
Speaking to Army Radio earlier Tuesday, Abergil, whose Facebook photos caused a worldwide media storm, said she still couldn't see what was wrong with the images, saying the "pictures were taken in good faith, there was no statement in them."
Referring to the possibility that the images could injure Israel's image in the international arena, Abergil said: "We will always be attacked. Whatever we do, we will always be attacked."
just another example of how Israel deliberately subjects Palestinians to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, in order to terrorize, intimidate and humiliate them.
an article i read in Haaretz earlier, had the girls face blanked out so you couldn't see what she looked like. i thought that was wrong. why would they try and protect her identity?
I don't have one ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians in this photo. I'm sure Obama will be weighing in very soon.
United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
just another example of how Israel deliberately subjects Palestinians to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, in order to terrorize, intimidate and humiliate them.
an article i read in Haaretz earlier, had the girls face blanked out so you couldn't see what she looked like. i thought that was wrong. why would they try and protect her identity?
I don't have one ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians in this photo. I'm sure Obama will be weighing in very soon.
why would you? your racism transcends any bounds of sympathy you could carry.
just another example of how Israel deliberately subjects Palestinians to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, in order to terrorize, intimidate and humiliate them.
an article i read in Haaretz earlier, had the girls face blanked out so you couldn't see what she looked like. i thought that was wrong. why would they try and protect her identity?
I don't have one ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians in this photo. I'm sure Obama will be weighing in very soon.
why would you? your racism transcends any bounds of sympathy you could carry.
Why would you insinuate that I'm a racist? Is it because I side with Israel and because I don't like Obama? That's the trendy liberal line these days. If you disagree with Obama, then you MUST be one of those racists. You're comment shows what a shallow, ignorant individual you must be.
United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
I don't have one ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians in this photo. I'm sure Obama will be weighing in very soon.
why would you? your racism transcends any bounds of sympathy you could carry.
Why would you insinuate that I'm a racist? Is it because I side with Israel and because I don't like Obama? That's the trendy liberal line these days. If you disagree with Obama, then you MUST be one of those racists. You're comment shows what a shallow, ignorant individual you must be.
No. In fact, Obama has been extremely pro-Israeli so far. If he weighs in, which he won't in this case, it's in support of Israel. I wouldn't expect you to know that though since, after all, Obama IS one of those Muslims and probably supports Palestinians, am I right?
I insinuate you're a racist because you have a complete and utter lack of sympathy for the blindfolded people in the photo simply because they are Palestinian. I know this because there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest they have even done anything illegal (ever) and, as I've posted above, it is very normal for Israel to hold Palestinians in prison for long periods of time without ever charging them. Yet, despite this, you don't care to understand the situation at all. Typical signs of racism behind all this. This doesn't even take into account the fact that you compared Muslims, as a religion, in another thread to the SS. I won't take the time to call you ignorant, unlearned, etc, because you can't be racist without displaying all of these attributes as well.
I don't have one ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians in this photo. I'm sure Obama will be weighing in very soon.
why would you? your racism transcends any bounds of sympathy you could carry.
Why would you insinuate that I'm a racist? Is it because I side with Israel and because I don't like Obama? That's the trendy liberal line these days. If you disagree with Obama, then you MUST be one of those racists. You're comment shows what a shallow, ignorant individual you must be.
why would you think Obama would be weighing in very soon? Obama is pro-Israel. always has been.
that comment alone shows how ignorant and ill informed on the situation you are doesn't it.
Israeli ex-soldier says Facebook prisoner pictures were souvenirsEden Abergil brushes off criticism as veterans group says 'victory pictures' widespread practice among soldiers
A former Israeli soldier who posed for pictures with Palestinian detainees and posted them on her Facebook page defended her actions today, as more images emerged of Israeli service personel posing alongside blindfolded detainees and dead bodies.
"I still don't understand what I did wrong," Eden Abergil told Israeli army radio. Abergil, a reserve officer with the Israeli army who completed compulsory military service last year, provoked outrage over photographs in which she posed next to handcuffed, blindfolded Palestinians.
She told army radio: "There's no violence or intention to humiliate anyone in the pictures. I just had my picture taken with them in the background. I did it out of excitement, to remember the experience. It wasn't a political statement or any kind of statement. It was about remembering my experiences in the army and that's it."
The pictures have provoked a furious rection from Palestinians, who compared them to images of US soldiers abusing of Iraqi prisoners in Baghdad in 2004
"This is not very different to what was exposed at Abu Ghraib in Iraq," said Mustafa Barghouti, secretary general of the Palestinian National Initiative. "It is not an individual act, or a personal act or a lack of judgment, but a part of the constant racist behaviour that is implanted in the Israeli army and a whole philosophy of discrimination against Arabs and Palestinians. The most important characteristic of this treatment is humiliation."
An Israeli army spokesperson described the Facebook photographs as "shameful behaviour".
Breaking the Silence, an Israeli group of army veterans that documents the experiences of soldiers serving in the occupied West Bank, released more photographs to demonstrate that the practice is widespread.
The group said its preliminary batch of graphic pictures, some featuring Israeli soldiers posing next to dead bodies, was collated over the last decade and that a few of the images were from the Facebook pages of active soldiers. It asked the Israeli army to "clarify that this is a widespread phenomenon, not an unusual incident by one soldier".
Yehuda Shaul, one of the group's founders, said: "This is commonplace. Don't you take pictures of your everyday life? For these soldiers serving in the occupied territories, this is what they see 24/7 – handcuffed and blindfolded Palestinians."
Shaul described the photographs of Israeli soldiers standing next to what appear to be dead Palestinian men as "victory souvenirs". "Being in a place where you cannot see Palestinians as human beings is the default when you are serving in the occupied Palestinian territories."
Khalida Jarar, a Palestinian politician and director of Addameer, the Palestinian prisoner support and human rights association, said: "There are many more violations and abuses of Palestinians, without photographs. The soldiers take these pictures to show that they can do anything they want to Palestinians."
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"I still don't understand what I did wrong," Eden Abergil told Israeli army radio. Abergil, a reserve officer with the Israeli army who completed compulsory military service last year, provoked outrage over photographs in which she posed next to handcuffed, blindfolded Palestinians.
is there anyone here who doesn't understand what this stupid girl did wrong?
i'm not surprised she doesn't think she did anything wrong. ater all, like a lot of Israeli Jews, she considers non-Jews, Arabs in particular, to be subhuman.
there's a documentary called "To See If I Am Smiling", which is based around 6 Israeli girls who talk about their experiences in the military.
there's one part in the doc where they talk to a girl who was a medic whose name is Meytal. she used to also clean the corpses of Palestinians who had been killed by the IDF. she posed with a big smile on her face, giving the thumbs up signal, next to the body of a murdered Palestinian.
the other girls were also guilty of unspeakable things, which they admitted to in the documentary.
the facebook fiasco is not an isolated incident. so please don't pretend it is.
there's a documentary called "To See If I Am Smiling", which is based around 6 Israeli girls who talk about their experiences in the military.
there's one part in the doc where they talk to a girl who was a medic whose name is Meytal. she used to also clean the corpses of Palestinians who had been killed by the IDF. she posed with a big smile on her face, giving the thumbs up signal, next to the body of a murdered Palestinian.
the other girls were also guilty of unspeakable things, which they admitted to in the documentary.
the facebook fiasco is not an isolated incident. so please don't pretend it is.
there's a documentary called "To See If I Am Smiling", which is based around 6 Israeli girls who talk about their experiences in the military.
there's one part in the doc where they talk to a girl who was a medic whose name is Meytal. she used to also clean the corpses of Palestinians who had been killed by the IDF. she posed with a big smile on her face, giving the thumbs up signal, next to the body of a murdered Palestinian.
the other girls were also guilty of unspeakable things, which they admitted to in the documentary.
the facebook fiasco is not an isolated incident. so please don't pretend it is.
Let me start by saying once again that I think this picture taking issue is disgusting and that any one who does it should be sent to jail. With that said, the picture you posted is not of an Israeli. How am I so sure of this? Let's put the issue of uniform and equipment aside, the link to the pic says "abu-ghraib": http://warincontext.org/wp-content/uplo ... ghraib.jpg
Still can't believe I met Mike Mccready at the Guggenheim and got a pic with him!!!!!
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
Let me start by saying once again that I think this picture taking issue is disgusting and that any one who does it should be sent to jail. With that said, the picture you posted is not of an Israeli. How am I so sure of this? Let's put the issue of uniform and equipment aside, the link to the pic says "abu-ghraib": http://warincontext.org/wp-content/uplo ... ghraib.jpg
does it matter if this is the picture? it was fucked up, deplorable behavior from the idf...
here is the Israeli soldier in question talking about the picture in question...
In the film, Ms. Sandler described the night the photograph was taken:
There’s a shooting battle and again there’s a dead body. And what is by now a normal procedure, we take the body put it near the latrines and wash it. Then, something very funny happens: he has an erection. A dead body with an erection. We laugh a little because it’s embarrassing. And… it’s open grounds, so anyone come and take a peek. Some female sergeants that I knew arrive from the operations room come in. One of them has a camera and without even thinking, I tell her, ‘Come, take my picture.’ And I sit down next to the dead body and… I have my picture taken.
As she described the memory, Ms. Sandler looked haunted and on the verge of tears. But the film includes video of her at a party marking the end of her military service — reading a letter from the other soldiers who tell her, “You know that we love you,” showing off a gift, dancing to electronic music — to illustrate how differently she felt about her stint in the army at the time.
Later, she told the filmmaker:
I’m not sure when it was, but at some point, I became very ashamed of that picture. And… I didn’t tell anyone about it, that it existed. I forgot about it a little. But I would like to see it. To see if I look different. I want to see if I’m smiling.
Near the end of the documentary, as she prepared to look again at the photograph, which had not been in her possession, Ms. Sandler said: “Who wants to deal with the evil within himself, the alienation? Who wants to deal with that? Dealing with these questions is painful.”
Let me start by saying once again that I think this picture taking issue is disgusting and that any one who does it should be sent to jail. With that said, the picture you posted is not of an Israeli. How am I so sure of this? Let's put the issue of uniform and equipment aside, the link to the pic says "abu-ghraib": http://warincontext.org/wp-content/uplo ... ghraib.jpg
does it matter if this is the picture? it was fucked up, deplorable behavior from the idf...
...
yes it matters. if youre going to attack someone for their behaviour and are using a picture to illustrate that, then the picture accompanying that attack must represent the person you are attacking, dont you think?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Let me start by saying once again that I think this picture taking issue is disgusting and that any one who does it should be sent to jail. With that said, the picture you posted is not of an Israeli. How am I so sure of this? Let's put the issue of uniform and equipment aside, the link to the pic says "abu-ghraib": http://warincontext.org/wp-content/uplo ... ghraib.jpg
does it matter if this is the picture? it was fucked up, deplorable behavior from the idf...
...
yes it matters. if youre going to attack someone for their behaviour and are using a picture to illustrate that, then the picture accompanying that attack must represent the person you are attacking, dont you think?
not if the message you are presenting has absolutely nothing to do with the picture you are posting, which is the case here.
does it matter if this is the picture? it was fucked up, deplorable behavior from the idf...
...
yes it matters. if youre going to attack someone for their behaviour and are using a picture to illustrate that, then the picture accompanying that attack must represent the person you are attacking, dont you think?
not if the message you are presenting has absolutely nothing to do with the picture you are posting, which is the case here.
commy that makes no sense at all. why would you post a pic that does not illustrate the message youre trying to convey?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i did not invent the fucking picture. i didn't falsify the picture. i didn't imagine the picture.
Mytel Sandler, the medic in the documentary, told her story as to what happened and i got it from here.
In the documentary, To See If I Am Smiling (released in 2007), six young Israeli women recount their experiences of military service in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The title comes from a story told by Meytal, a medic and medical officer. Having described how cleaning the corpses of Palestinians after they had been brutalized by Israeli soldiers had become a routine part of her job, she goes on to recount a particular moment that still haunts her: when she posed for a photograph next to a corpse.
I’m not sure when it was, but at some point I became very ashamed of that picture. And I didn’t tell anyone about it, that it existed. I forgot about it a little. But I would like to see it. To see if I look different. I want to see if I’m still smiling.
The photograph is not shown in the documentary, but in the mind’s eye of most Americans it probably evokes memories of Abu Ghraib.
Such images are iconic because they capture the moment in which a soldier discovers that he or she has become the very thing they fear. The dehumanized other is a vortex from which there is no escape.
If a nation can have such a thing as a soul, To See If I Am Smiling, reveals how profoundly Israel’s soul has been scarred by 43 years of occupation. A fully militarized society has shackled itself to a conviction — we have no choice — whereby each individual can then bury their own awareness of complicity and moral responsibility under a collective weight of irresistible necessity.
But even among Israelis who are comfortably indifferent to the plight of Palestinians, one has to wonder: how do they account for what they have done to their own sons and daughters?
As a nation struggles to avoid looking at itself, no wonder the fury and passion with which it attacks those who hold up a mirror.
Comments
I thought that the Buffalo border was pretty easy to get through. Didn't some drunk guys from Toronto get a ten foot tall wooden statue of Thurman Thomas through there last year?
"From the beginning of the intifada (December 9, 1987) until today, thousands of Palestinians have been held in administrative detention for periods ranging from six months to several years.
Administrative detention is detention without charge or trial that is authorized by administrative order rather than by judicial decree. Under international law, it is allowed under certain circumstances. However, because of the serious injury to due-process rights inherent in this measure and the obvious danger of its abuse, international law has placed rigid restrictions on its application. According to international law, administrative detention can be used only in the most exceptional cases, as the last means available for preventing danger that cannot be thwarted by less harmful means.
Israel's use of administrative detention blatantly violates these restrictions. It is carried out under the thick cover of privilege, which denies detainees the possibility of mounting a proper defense. Over the years, Israel has administratively detained thousands of Palestinian for prolonged periods of time, without prosecuting them, without informing them of the charges against them, and without allowing them or their attorneys to study the evidence, making a mockery of the protections specified in Israeli and international law to protect the right to liberty and due process, the right of defendants to state their case, and the presumption of innocence."
http://www.btselem.org/english/Administ ... /Index.asp
""I wanted to see if it was possible to see Palestinians as human beings..."
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/ne ... s-1.308233
'Facebook photos of soldiers posing with bound Palestinians are the norm'
Rights group Breaking the Silence refutes IDF claim that photos posted by female soldier under the heading 'the time of my life' are an anomaly.
Facebook photos depicting Israel Defense Forces soldiers pictured alongside handcuffed and blindfolded Palestinian detainees represent the norm, not the exception, in IDF conduct, an Israeli human rights group said on Tuesday, thus refuting an official army statement claiming the opposite.
Photographs uploaded by Eden Abergil released earlier this week and labeled "IDF – the best time of my life," sparked massive public outrage. The photos depicted Abergil smiling next to Palestinian prisoners with their hands bound and their eyes covered.
A comment attached to one of the photos of the soldier smiling in front of two blindfold men and posted by one of Abergil's friends read "That looks really sexy for you," with Abergil's response reading: "I wonder if he is on Facebook too – I'll have to tag him in the photo."
An IDF spokesman had issued a response on Monday, saying that "on the face of it the behavior exhibited by the soldier is base and crude."
In a statement released Tuesday by Breaking the Silence, an organization that collects testimonies of Israeli soldiers on alleged abuse of Palestinians in the territories, the group said that while the IDF claimed to be "shocked" by Abergil's photos, it did not represent "the ugly behavior of just one person."
The statement released in a Facebook page called "The Norm that IDF Spokesman Avi Benayahu Denies," also included several graphic photos depicting soldiers posing next to the bodies of suspected militants as well as next to handcuffed detainees [viewer discretion is advised].
In the Facebook page, Breaking the Silence said that the norms the photos allegedly expose were the" necessary result of a long-term military control of a civilian population."
"We suggest that the IDF Spokesman not insult the intelligence of the Israeli public, and clarify that it is a widespread phenomenon, not an aberration caused by a single soldier," the statement said, adding that the enclosed photos were taken at several times during the last ten years and represented only a "preliminary batch."
Speaking to Army Radio earlier Tuesday, Abergil, whose Facebook photos caused a worldwide media storm, said she still couldn't see what was wrong with the images, saying the "pictures were taken in good faith, there was no statement in them."
Referring to the possibility that the images could injure Israel's image in the international arena, Abergil said: "We will always be attacked. Whatever we do, we will always be attacked."
I don't have one ounce of sympathy for the Palestinians in this photo. I'm sure Obama will be weighing in very soon.
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
Why would you insinuate that I'm a racist? Is it because I side with Israel and because I don't like Obama? That's the trendy liberal line these days. If you disagree with Obama, then you MUST be one of those racists. You're comment shows what a shallow, ignorant individual you must be.
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
I insinuate you're a racist because you have a complete and utter lack of sympathy for the blindfolded people in the photo simply because they are Palestinian. I know this because there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest they have even done anything illegal (ever) and, as I've posted above, it is very normal for Israel to hold Palestinians in prison for long periods of time without ever charging them. Yet, despite this, you don't care to understand the situation at all. Typical signs of racism behind all this. This doesn't even take into account the fact that you compared Muslims, as a religion, in another thread to the SS. I won't take the time to call you ignorant, unlearned, etc, because you can't be racist without displaying all of these attributes as well.
Have a nice day, dude
Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09
that comment alone shows how ignorant and ill informed on the situation you are doesn't it.
your words speak for themselves.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/au ... -prisoners
A former Israeli soldier who posed for pictures with Palestinian detainees and posted them on her Facebook page defended her actions today, as more images emerged of Israeli service personel posing alongside blindfolded detainees and dead bodies.
"I still don't understand what I did wrong," Eden Abergil told Israeli army radio. Abergil, a reserve officer with the Israeli army who completed compulsory military service last year, provoked outrage over photographs in which she posed next to handcuffed, blindfolded Palestinians.
She told army radio: "There's no violence or intention to humiliate anyone in the pictures. I just had my picture taken with them in the background. I did it out of excitement, to remember the experience. It wasn't a political statement or any kind of statement. It was about remembering my experiences in the army and that's it."
The pictures have provoked a furious rection from Palestinians, who compared them to images of US soldiers abusing of Iraqi prisoners in Baghdad in 2004
"This is not very different to what was exposed at Abu Ghraib in Iraq," said Mustafa Barghouti, secretary general of the Palestinian National Initiative. "It is not an individual act, or a personal act or a lack of judgment, but a part of the constant racist behaviour that is implanted in the Israeli army and a whole philosophy of discrimination against Arabs and Palestinians. The most important characteristic of this treatment is humiliation."
An Israeli army spokesperson described the Facebook photographs as "shameful behaviour".
Breaking the Silence, an Israeli group of army veterans that documents the experiences of soldiers serving in the occupied West Bank, released more photographs to demonstrate that the practice is widespread.
The group said its preliminary batch of graphic pictures, some featuring Israeli soldiers posing next to dead bodies, was collated over the last decade and that a few of the images were from the Facebook pages of active soldiers. It asked the Israeli army to "clarify that this is a widespread phenomenon, not an unusual incident by one soldier".
Yehuda Shaul, one of the group's founders, said: "This is commonplace. Don't you take pictures of your everyday life? For these soldiers serving in the occupied territories, this is what they see 24/7 – handcuffed and blindfolded Palestinians."
Shaul described the photographs of Israeli soldiers standing next to what appear to be dead Palestinian men as "victory souvenirs". "Being in a place where you cannot see Palestinians as human beings is the default when you are serving in the occupied Palestinian territories."
Khalida Jarar, a Palestinian politician and director of Addameer, the Palestinian prisoner support and human rights association, said: "There are many more violations and abuses of Palestinians, without photographs. The soldiers take these pictures to show that they can do anything they want to Palestinians."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery ... 41&index=8
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i'm not surprised she doesn't think she did anything wrong. ater all, like a lot of Israeli Jews, she considers non-Jews, Arabs in particular, to be subhuman.
there's one part in the doc where they talk to a girl who was a medic whose name is Meytal. she used to also clean the corpses of Palestinians who had been killed by the IDF. she posed with a big smile on her face, giving the thumbs up signal, next to the body of a murdered Palestinian.
the other girls were also guilty of unspeakable things, which they admitted to in the documentary.
the facebook fiasco is not an isolated incident. so please don't pretend it is.
war, what is it good for?
come to mind.
although calling a siege "war" seems inaccurate.
Let me start by saying once again that I think this picture taking issue is disgusting and that any one who does it should be sent to jail. With that said, the picture you posted is not of an Israeli. How am I so sure of this? Let's put the issue of uniform and equipment aside, the link to the pic says "abu-ghraib":
http://warincontext.org/wp-content/uplo ... ghraib.jpg
2010: 9/7/10 - Bilbao
2012: 26-27/6/12 - Amsterdam ~~ 29/6/12 - Werchter ~~ 4-5/7/12 - Berlin
2014: 25/6/14 - Vienna ~~ 26/6/14 - Berlin
does it matter if this is the picture? it was fucked up, deplorable behavior from the idf...
here is the Israeli soldier in question talking about the picture in question...
In the film, Ms. Sandler described the night the photograph was taken:
There’s a shooting battle and again there’s a dead body. And what is by now a normal procedure, we take the body put it near the latrines and wash it. Then, something very funny happens: he has an erection. A dead body with an erection. We laugh a little because it’s embarrassing. And… it’s open grounds, so anyone come and take a peek. Some female sergeants that I knew arrive from the operations room come in. One of them has a camera and without even thinking, I tell her, ‘Come, take my picture.’ And I sit down next to the dead body and… I have my picture taken.
As she described the memory, Ms. Sandler looked haunted and on the verge of tears. But the film includes video of her at a party marking the end of her military service — reading a letter from the other soldiers who tell her, “You know that we love you,” showing off a gift, dancing to electronic music — to illustrate how differently she felt about her stint in the army at the time.
Later, she told the filmmaker:
I’m not sure when it was, but at some point, I became very ashamed of that picture. And… I didn’t tell anyone about it, that it existed. I forgot about it a little. But I would like to see it. To see if I look different. I want to see if I’m smiling.
Near the end of the documentary, as she prepared to look again at the photograph, which had not been in her possession, Ms. Sandler said: “Who wants to deal with the evil within himself, the alienation? Who wants to deal with that? Dealing with these questions is painful.”
yes it matters. if youre going to attack someone for their behaviour and are using a picture to illustrate that, then the picture accompanying that attack must represent the person you are attacking, dont you think?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
war is corrupting. we dont' need a fucking picture to tell us that. we have her testimony about a picture, which is much more damning.
commy that makes no sense at all. why would you post a pic that does not illustrate the message youre trying to convey?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
whoa there tiger. we are on the same side about how war corrupts.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i'm saying the picture is irrelevant given the Israeli soldiers words about the picture in question, which i posted.
i'm still not convinced the picture in question is false, we have rafie's objection, but that doesn't mean the picture isn't accurate.
and whether it is or isnt is irrelevant to my argument. and yes youre right her testimony is more damning that any photo could ever be.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Mytel Sandler, the medic in the documentary, told her story as to what happened and i got it from here.
In the documentary, To See If I Am Smiling (released in 2007), six young Israeli women recount their experiences of military service in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The title comes from a story told by Meytal, a medic and medical officer. Having described how cleaning the corpses of Palestinians after they had been brutalized by Israeli soldiers had become a routine part of her job, she goes on to recount a particular moment that still haunts her: when she posed for a photograph next to a corpse.
I’m not sure when it was, but at some point I became very ashamed of that picture. And I didn’t tell anyone about it, that it existed. I forgot about it a little. But I would like to see it. To see if I look different. I want to see if I’m still smiling.
The photograph is not shown in the documentary, but in the mind’s eye of most Americans it probably evokes memories of Abu Ghraib.
Such images are iconic because they capture the moment in which a soldier discovers that he or she has become the very thing they fear. The dehumanized other is a vortex from which there is no escape.
If a nation can have such a thing as a soul, To See If I Am Smiling, reveals how profoundly Israel’s soul has been scarred by 43 years of occupation. A fully militarized society has shackled itself to a conviction — we have no choice — whereby each individual can then bury their own awareness of complicity and moral responsibility under a collective weight of irresistible necessity.
But even among Israelis who are comfortably indifferent to the plight of Palestinians, one has to wonder: how do they account for what they have done to their own sons and daughters?
As a nation struggles to avoid looking at itself, no wonder the fury and passion with which it attacks those who hold up a mirror.
http://warincontext.org/2010/05/09/to-s ... m-smiling/
no one is saying you did. are they? i know im not.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say