WELL DONE USA

ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
edited August 2010 in A Moving Train
Gotta say a well done to the Obama administration. For the first time in 65 years an American representitive has attended the Hiroshima rememberance day activities In Hiroshima.
Thats a big step forward .
Hat off to the USA

dosnt happen that often, but credit where its due
AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • TriumphantAngelTriumphantAngel Posts: 1,760
    edited August 2010
    and 65 years on, the US remains the only country in the wold that has committed the crime of inflicting nuclear devastation on a nation not just once, but twice.

    and they still think they have the right to dictate who can and can not have nukes. just because after 65 years, they finally decide to send a representative to the memorial day, doesn't warrant a pat on the back in my eyes.

    now if Obama's push to rid the world of nuclear weapons, included our OWN, well then that's a different story.
    Post edited by TriumphantAngel on
  • SidnumSidnum Posts: 674
    just because after 65 years, they finally decide to send a representative to the memorial day, doesn't warrant a pat on the back in my eyes.


    It's a start. Gotta start somewhere.
  • Sidnum wrote:
    just because after 65 years, they finally decide to send a representative to the memorial day, doesn't warrant a pat on the back in my eyes.


    It's a start. Gotta start somewhere.
    a start to what? show me a committment to the fact it will never happen again. the global nuclear weapons stockpile is estimated to amount to about 150,000 Hiroshima bombs. Japan doesn't have any. the US and Russia have 22,000 between them.

    get rid of all those nucleur weapons. that includes you too France, Britain, China, India, Pakistan and Israel.

    that's what i'd call a start.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Ceremonies and speeches mean very little if they're not followed by action. Why get so congratulatory over a song and pony show?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,348
    Has Japan ever apologized for Pearl Harbor?
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Not exactly the same sentiment. Pearl Harbor was a military base, the US bombed 2 major cities killing hundreds of thousands of innocents. Not getting into whether it was the right decision or not, but to compare to two is not the same.
    Has Japan ever apologized for Pearl Harbor?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.
  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    you gotta start the healing somewhere.
    The healing on both sides. bad and evil decisions were made by all.
    I feel that its a sign towards healing. IF you are full of hate and bitterness, you will never heal yourself.
    Things were done , they cannot be undone now.
    But we can heal now, loose the hate . loose the bitterness
    It takes somebody to stand up.
    after 65 years sonebody stood up, made a start.
    THATS CALLED HOPE
    hope for peace
    hope for a world free of nuclear weapons
    hope for nations/ states who hold grudges with others can move forward.
    it just need a start
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    HeidiJam wrote:
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.





    Russia was getting involved. It was over for Japan.


    Dropping two atomic weapons on largely civilian populations was simply mass murder, not warfare.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    The Apology Tour continues.

    An unprovoked attack is ok because it was a military base? Hilarious.
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    Commy wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.





    Russia was getting involved. It was over for Japan.


    Dropping two atomic weapons on largely civilian populations was simply mass murder, not warfare.
    Sounds like you need to do a little research on those two areas.
  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    HeidiJam wrote:
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.
    :roll:
    The people of the country don't start brutal and devastating fights.
    The idiots in power do...

    Nice compassion.
    Two entire cities were annihilated, and a lot of innocent people were blown to dust and charcoal skeletons.
    I hope no body will ever have to see the things my grandfather saw picking up those bodies.

    PS, you disgust me. I don't care if I get banned for saying this, but you're comment is fucking ignorant.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    haffajappa wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.
    :roll:
    The people of the country don't start brutal and devastating fights.
    The idiots in power do...

    Nice compassion.
    Two entire cities were annihilated, and a lot of innocent people were blown to dust and charcoal skeletons.
    I hope no body will ever have to see the things my grandfather saw picking up those bodies.

    PS, you disgust me. I don't care if I get banned for saying this, but you're comment is fucking ignorant.
    Bombing those cities saved millions of americans lives. And japan is far better off now that we did that. I tell you what disgust me, the way japan treated its own people during ww2. Look up unit 731. They did far worse things than the nazis.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Yes it ended the war quickly and saved US soliders, but let's not lose our heads. Japan is better for it? Really? Did you actually just say that? I suppose America is better off post 9-11 cause only 2,000 people had to die for us to get an infusion of patriotism? haha Nice head.
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Bombing those cities saved millions of americans lives. And japan is far better off now that we did that. I tell you what disgust me, the way japan treated its own people during ww2. Look up unit 731. They did far worse things than the nazis.
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Bombing those cities saved millions of americans lives. And japan is far better off now that we did that.
    Jesus christ, are you serious? there is ample evidence, well documented reports proving Japan was going to surrender and that the dropping of the nuclear bombs were absolutely unnecessary. there is also plenty of evidence that shows that the attack on pearl harbor was provoked, the US was itching to go to war.

    read a fucking book people! the ignorance on here continues to astound me. it's fucking 2010, no excuses for this shit anymore.
  • HeidiJam wrote:
    haffajappa wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.
    :roll:
    The people of the country don't start brutal and devastating fights.
    The idiots in power do...

    Nice compassion.
    Two entire cities were annihilated, and a lot of innocent people were blown to dust and charcoal skeletons.
    I hope no body will ever have to see the things my grandfather saw picking up those bodies.

    PS, you disgust me. I don't care if I get banned for saying this, but you're comment is fucking ignorant.
    Bombing those cities saved millions of americans lives.
    care to elighten me with how bombing them saved millions of American lives?

    "It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima
    and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan.
    The Japanese were almost defeated and ready to surrender...in being the
    first to use it, we...adopted an ethical standard common to the
    barbarians of the Dark Ages."
    ---Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy,
    Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during World War II
  • _outlaw wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Bombing those cities saved millions of americans lives. And japan is far better off now that we did that.
    Jesus christ, are you serious? there is ample evidence, well documented reports proving Japan was going to surrender and that the dropping of the nuclear bombs were absolutely unnecessary. there is also plenty of evidence that shows that the attack on pearl harbor was provoked, the US was itching to go to war.

    read a fucking book people! the ignorance on here continues to astound me. it's fucking 2010, no excuses for this shit anymore.
    there is plenty of documented evidence showing the use of nucleur bombs was completely unnecessary.

    Americans of all people should know this. Why don't some of you? I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some people out there in our nation don't have maps, and, uh, I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and, uh, the Iraq everywhere like, such as and I believe that they should, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., er, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our children......

    unbelievable.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    HeidiJam wrote:
    Commy wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.





    Russia was getting involved. It was over for Japan.


    Dropping two atomic weapons on largely civilian populations was simply mass murder, not warfare.
    Sounds like you need to do a little research on those two areas.


    i know my history. as for you...



    The US strategic bombing survey is a good place to start educating yourself. its an official review of the effectiveness of US air forces in ww2. and yes they cover the need to drop nukes on innocent people.


    And Russia was at war with Japan in 1945, this is common knowledge.
  • http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/au ... exhibition


    There are some really shocking and ignorant comments in this thread!
  • ShawshankShawshank Posts: 1,018
    Some of you need to spend a little more time studying your history. Japan was ready to fight to the death, down to the last man, woman and child if necessary. They had no intention of surrender...EVER! Yes, some of their military leaders were concerned about their ability to continue to wage war, but surrender was not an option. If you knew anything about their culture, and their commitment to their Emperor, you would know that simple fact. Here are some other facts you may have overlooked....before any bombs were dropped the Potsdam Declaration was issued to Japan. This basically said, surrender now or face total destruction, or something to that effect. This was signed by the US, Britain, and I believe China.

    Nearly 30 million leaflets were dropped on the cities of Japan for about 9 days, warning of total destruction if they didn't surrender. The Japanese simply ignored the warnings and continued waging their war against the allies. Only after continual warnings and demands for surrender were given did the US drop the bomb on Hiroshima. Hiroshima housed a high concentration of military troops, a base and large military factories, and it was also one of the only cities that hadn't been damaged by air raids.

    I find it a testament to the belief our military leaders held at the time that the Japanese would not have surrendered, by the mere fact that they still did not surrender even after Hiroshima. Further calls on them to surrender August 6th, 7th and 8th were completely ignored. It has been theorized that the Japanese leaders felt that the US had used all it had, and they wouldn't drop another one. So when the second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, it showed that the US would completely obliterate them until they surrendered. However, even after all of this, they still would not surrender unless their Emperor would be allowed to remain as a head of state. It was only after the allies accepted this condition that Japan truly surrendered.
  • haffajappa wrote:
    HeidiJam wrote:
    When someone else starts a brutal and devastating fight, you don't apologize for ending it on your own terms.
    :roll:
    The people of the country don't start brutal and devastating fights.
    The idiots in power do...

    Nice compassion.
    Two entire cities were annihilated, and a lot of innocent people were blown to dust and charcoal skeletons.
    I hope no body will ever have to see the things my grandfather saw picking up those bodies.

    PS, you disgust me. I don't care if I get banned for saying this, but you're comment is fucking ignorant.


    I agree with the bolded part.
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  • Shawshank wrote:
    Some of you need to spend a little more time studying your history. Japan was ready to fight to the death, down to the last man, woman and child if necessary. They had no intention of surrender...EVER! Yes, some of their military leaders were concerned about their ability to continue to wage war, but surrender was not an option. If you knew anything about their culture, and their commitment to their Emperor, you would know that simple fact. Here are some other facts you may have overlooked....before any bombs were dropped the Potsdam Declaration was issued to Japan. This basically said, surrender now or face total destruction, or something to that effect. This was signed by the US, Britain, and I believe China.

    Nearly 30 million leaflets were dropped on the cities of Japan for about 9 days, warning of total destruction if they didn't surrender. The Japanese simply ignored the warnings and continued waging their war against the allies. Only after continual warnings and demands for surrender were given did the US drop the bomb on Hiroshima. Hiroshima housed a high concentration of military troops, a base and large military factories, and it was also one of the only cities that hadn't been damaged by air raids.

    I find it a testament to the belief our military leaders held at the time that the Japanese would not have surrendered, by the mere fact that they still did not surrender even after Hiroshima. Further calls on them to surrender August 6th, 7th and 8th were completely ignored. It has been theorized that the Japanese leaders felt that the US had used all it had, and they wouldn't drop another one. So when the second bomb was dropped on Nagasaki, it showed that the US would completely obliterate them until they surrendered. However, even after all of this, they still would not surrender unless their Emperor would be allowed to remain as a head of state. It was only after the allies accepted this condition that Japan truly surrendered.


    The Taliban will never surrender. Does that justify dropping a nuke on a section of the middle east that houses insurgency fighters and trains suicide bombers? NO, you know what justifies dropping a nuke on someone? NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The reasons you are trying to use to justify nuclear attacks is comical.
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    return 0;}
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    I kind of agree with HeidiJam.

    Taking innocent lives is wrong on all parts, but you can't paint the U.S. as evil. Humans have the built in gene to war with each other. It's part of our natural selection. It's population control. One lost life, thousands of lost lives, our time on this planet is short either way you look at it.

    I would not support a nuke on anyone, but you really can't pin point the blame on anyone other than mankind. What's done is done. Move on and learn from it.
  • ShawshankShawshank Posts: 1,018
    The Taliban will never surrender. Does that justify dropping a nuke on a section of the middle east that houses insurgency fighters and trains suicide bombers? NO, you know what justifies dropping a nuke on someone? NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The reasons you are trying to use to justify nuclear attacks is comical.

    Nice try, but I wasn't justifying anything. There are reasons behind everything, and most of the time it's more than just a bunch of bloodthirsty savage Americans looking to kill people. People fail to read and comprehend their history, and not just the history we sugar coat for ourselves, but what is written from the perspective of other societies about us. The ignorance here is appalling at times. Some people think we just woke up one morning and thought it would be neat to drop a fucking nuke. :roll:
  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    Shawshank wrote:
    The Taliban will never surrender. Does that justify dropping a nuke on a section of the middle east that houses insurgency fighters and trains suicide bombers? NO, you know what justifies dropping a nuke on someone? NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The reasons you are trying to use to justify nuclear attacks is comical.

    Nice try, but I wasn't justifying anything. There are reasons behind everything, and most of the time it's more than just a bunch of bloodthirsty savage Americans looking to kill people. People fail to read and comprehend their history, and not just the history we sugar coat for ourselves, but what is written from the perspective of other societies about us. The ignorance here is appalling at times. Some people think we just woke up one morning and thought it would be neat to drop a fucking nuke. :roll:
    Well then maybe there are reasons behind someone hijacking an airplane and smashing it into a building - and no I'm not talking about the kamikaze. If someone said no one should appologize for the thousands who lost their lives on 9/11 because of the actions of the US Government a lot of you would be shitting yourselves.

    My point was you can't justify saying people had it coming to them because their government/military started/participated in a war! Would you just shrug and call it history if someone nuked New York because of the wars that presidents start? Oh well I guess they had it coming because they are responsible for what a handful of idiots decide on in office.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Shawshank wrote:
    The Taliban will never surrender. Does that justify dropping a nuke on a section of the middle east that houses insurgency fighters and trains suicide bombers? NO, you know what justifies dropping a nuke on someone? NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. The reasons you are trying to use to justify nuclear attacks is comical.

    Nice try, but I wasn't justifying anything. There are reasons behind everything, and most of the time it's more than just a bunch of bloodthirsty savage Americans looking to kill people. People fail to read and comprehend their history, and not just the history we sugar coat for ourselves, but what is written from the perspective of other societies about us. The ignorance here is appalling at times. Some people think we just woke up one morning and thought it would be neat to drop a fucking nuke. :roll:


    You were trying to justify it, without actually having the balls to come and say it. If you read between the lines of what you wrote, you totally support what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Its quite obvious. Trying to say the Japanese would never ever surrender is just ignorant. What if Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq had the combined military weight the US does, and they decided to actually come over to the US and wage war on your soil, would you expect your leaders and people to just surrender? No? So why was it so evil of the Japanese to not believe in surrender? No matter the odds. Regardless of Hiroshima and Nagaskai being Military outposts, the US in response to an attack on a military naval base (Pearl Harbour) dropped bombs on Tokyo in March 1945, killing over 100, 000 civilians. The intent was to have the city burn and kill as many civilians as possible. How do you justify that? You don't think the message wasn't sent. 65 years later after the atomic bombing in Japan people are still dying from the fallout, radiation in the soil etc. Those people have nothing to do with the conflict.

    http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/WalendySkull.jpg

    This photo ran in life magazine, a US model was sent a Japanese skull by her naval boyfriend. On the skull he wrote a Good Jap, a Dead one.

    History is written by the winners.
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  • haffajappahaffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955


    You were trying to justify it, without actually having the balls to come and say it. If you read between the lines of what you wrote, you totally support what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Its quite obvious. Trying to say the Japanese would never ever surrender is just ignorant. What if Iran, Afghanistan and Iraq had the combined military weight the US does, and they decided to actually come over to the US and wage war on your soil, would you expect your leaders and people to just surrender? No? So why was it so evil of the Japanese to not believe in surrender? No matter the odds. Regardless of Hiroshima and Nagaskai being Military outposts, the US in response to an attack on a military naval base (Pearl Harbour) dropped bombs on Tokyo in March 1945, killing over 100, 000 civilians. The intent was to have the city burn and kill as many civilians as possible. How do you justify that? You don't think the message wasn't sent. 65 years later after the atomic bombing in Japan people are still dying from the fallout, radiation in the soil etc. Those people have nothing to do with the conflict.

    http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/WalendySkull.jpg

    This photo ran in life magazine, a US model was sent a Japanese skull by her naval boyfriend. On the skull he wrote a Good Jap, a Dead one.

    History is written by the winners.
    even if say, the USA government was in some sort of war and was threatened to surrender but would not, is it still justified that 300,000 Americans be blown to dust because of the decisions of their government? Its like bombing a family house killing all the children just because their father was a idiot. Yeehaw.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =129031051

    This story came out this morning about the National Museum of Nuclear Science and History. Seemed relevant to this conversation. I think I'll go check out the museum; it's only a mile from my house. NM is home to all kinds of nuclear science activity - historically and today - and it's a big source of controversy. It's interesting to see the different attitudes portrayed in the article though.
  • scb wrote:
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129031051

    This story came out this morning about the National Museum of Nuclear Science and History. Seemed relevant to this conversation. I think I'll go check out the museum; it's only a mile from my house. NM is home to all kinds of nuclear science activity - historically and today - and it's a big source of controversy. It's interesting to see the different attitudes portrayed in the article though.


    That museum is featured prominently in the 2nd season of the TV series "Breaking Bad"
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  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    Shawshank wrote:
    Some of you need to spend a little more time studying your history. Japan was ready to fight to the death, down to the last man, woman and child if necessary. They had no intention of surrender...EVER! Yes, some of their military leaders were concerned about their ability to continue to wage war, but surrender was not an option.
    This is not only a lie, but a contradiction. On one hand, you say the nuclear bombs were necessary because Japan was never going to surrender, even "down to the last man, woman, and child if necessary." on the other hand, you say nuclear bombs brought about the Japanese surrender because the destruction and slaughter was too much. so which is it? they were going to fight to the last man, woman, and child, or only until a big defeat?
    If you knew anything about their culture, and their commitment to their Emperor, you would know that simple fact.
    their culture? is that enough to wage wars on people, our perception of their culture? yes, you may be speaking from your large exposure to Japanese culture, which probably involved you watching Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai for 2.5 hours, which shows that Japanese culture invokes the notion of no surrender, but that doesn't mean they are willing to sacrifice their women and children.

    seeing as how we weren't willing to abandon our onslaught of a million iraqis, i wonder how americans would feel if Iraq had retaliated by nuking a U.S. city. probably in a hypocritical way, no doubt.
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