Why nothing will improve in the US

Jason P

blackredyellow wrote:

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

markin ball wrote:

It is basically one issue for me.

Apathy.

We've had it so good for so long, really, that we as a people really won't get to the bottom of all these issues until it is so bad that we have no other choice. We are just one big "functioning alcoholic" of a nation, living in denial, that hasn't hit rock bottom yet.

I agree. I believe apathy from the masses is why this country is on a bullet train to shit. And from a personal standpoint, it's just overwhelming sometimes to even think about it much less lead or take part in what's more and more seeming to look like a necessary revolution. I'm tired and lazy and I still think I give a fuck way more than the average american idiot.

Some apathy is out of laziness (that we all have), but a lot of it too is just how we prioritize our lives and how busy we are.

Speaking for myself, I work 40+ hours a week, come home every night to have dinner with my family, spend evenings playing with my son, walking my dogs, doing stuff around the house etc... weekends are spent doing some home projects, shopping for food/stuff, traveling, family fun activities, etc...

To me, while I do see many problems with our government and will write my representatives once in a while, doing those things above are much more rewarding to me than taking up this massive "fight" against our government, or spending the day at some sort of rally or whatever.

It might make me self-centered, or just apathetic (because there are some people who balance all of these things), but to me, my priorities are at home.

Well put.

Eliot Rosewater

blackredyellow wrote:

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

markin ball wrote:

It is basically one issue for me.

Apathy.

We've had it so good for so long, really, that we as a people really won't get to the bottom of all these issues until it is so bad that we have no other choice. We are just one big "functioning alcoholic" of a nation, living in denial, that hasn't hit rock bottom yet.

I agree. I believe apathy from the masses is why this country is on a bullet train to shit. And from a personal standpoint, it's just overwhelming sometimes to even think about it much less lead or take part in what's more and more seeming to look like a necessary revolution. I'm tired and lazy and I still think I give a fuck way more than the average american idiot.

Some apathy is out of laziness (that we all have), but a lot of it too is just how we prioritize our lives and how busy we are.

Speaking for myself, I work 40+ hours a week, come home every night to have dinner with my family, spend evenings playing with my son, walking my dogs, doing stuff around the house etc... weekends are spent doing some home projects, shopping for food/stuff, traveling, family fun activities, etc...

To me, while I do see many problems with our government and will write my representatives once in a while, doing those things above are much more rewarding to me than taking up this massive "fight" against our government, or spending the day at some sort of rally or whatever.

It might make me self-centered, or just apathetic (because there are some people who balance all of these things), but to me, my priorities are at home.

Yes, you're right. And I'm not very lazy that was wrong of me to say. I'm very busy. Much like you I just see it better fit to spend my time and energy on something that gives me more direct and immediate results. I am angered and saddened by the state of our nation yet I do relatively little about it.

I think in order to reach self-actualization I'm going to need to do a lot more. I just don't see how some people have the time or energy to fight the good fight as hard and as often as it is needed.

TriumphantAngel

Commy wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

I disagree... in fact I believe that government and the powers that be have merely have catered the public demand when in absolute necessity (when it had it), not merely a result of public forcing everything in order for change. Whether it was anti-war protests, slavery, right to vote or discrimination... it was all accepted injustice til it became too big and then the government made adjustments... not solely the public forcing the situation. We didn't leave Vietnam til after years there and thousands of dead soldiers, not solely because of public outrage. The only way people change things is for the long term, and we've yet to really put this into practice.

Commy wrote:

i think history has shown this to be false.,


people only put up with injustice for so long.

When gov't caters to public will that is, in effect, people shaping public policy. Which is what you seem to be suggesting, yet at the same time attributing that change to government, which is false.


We can end gov't at any time, we can shut down this state, or any state. WE are their biggest enemy. The people.


And the authorities know this. The people are their biggest enemy, not China or Russia or nukes or any of that, we can end them tonight, if we were organized enough.


That's the goal of rising up, to force gov't to cater to public will, because ultimately WE have the power. It takes general strikes, protests in the streets, people standing up to authority, speaking out, but government has to listen. Or it will cease to be. And authority's primary motivator is self preservation, the idea behind the idea that power corrupts. And history has shown this to be true. They will listen, they have no choice.

The people gave us womens' rights, workers right and minority rights. Not the government.


Its also why things WILL change in the US. look at our history, they had it so much worse in the past. They died for minimum wage for fucks sake, we can carry that on. They gave us so much, and i don't see it about to pissed away. Human history is full of examples of people standing up to authority for ideas that benefit the majority, in the face of violence, propaganda and doubt.

We will progress, as a people. That is our history.

what Commy said.

hollow bottle

Far left Liberals. They are the reason for the decline of our nation. Weak borders and a weak stance on illegal aliens. That law doesn't even matter anymore. Military with its hands tied fighting for what? Removing God from everything. Don't forget the principles this nation was founded on. The ACLU and the like are a joke. The constant spending on Govt. programs. The government does not have the ability to run programs. There is too much Nepotism and money being scooped up before it gets to where it was intended to go. Increased divorce rate. Abortion being used as birth control. Fatherless children. Poor nutrition in the schools and at home. Taxes, taxes, taxes. Oil dependency. Printing money. Dummying down of the lower and middle classes. Bailouts, both for the working able poor and corporate America. A leader who can not fulfill his promises made to get into office. ....................

FiveB247x

When have "far left liberals" ever been in power in this nation? If your idea of that is the democrats, you don't know what "left" truly is.

hollow bottle wrote:

Far left Liberals. They are the reason for the decline of our nation. Weak borders and a weak stance on illegal aliens. That law doesn't even matter anymore. Military with its hands tied fighting for what? Removing God from everything. Don't forget the principles this nation was founded on. The ACLU and the like are a joke. The constant spending on Govt. programs. The government does not have the ability to run programs. There is too much Nepotism and money being scooped up before it gets to where it was intended to go. Increased divorce rate. Abortion being used as birth control. Fatherless children. Poor nutrition in the schools and at home. Taxes, taxes, taxes. Oil dependency. Printing money. Dummying down of the lower and middle classes. Bailouts, both for the working able poor and corporate America. A leader who can not fulfill his promises made to get into office. ....................

Smellyman

hollow bottle wrote:

Far left Liberals. They are the reason for the decline of our nation. Weak borders and a weak stance on illegal aliens. That law doesn't even matter anymore. Military with its hands tied fighting for what? Removing God from everything. Don't forget the principles this nation was founded on. The ACLU and the like are a joke. The constant spending on Govt. programs. The government does not have the ability to run programs. There is too much Nepotism and money being scooped up before it gets to where it was intended to go. Increased divorce rate. Abortion being used as birth control. Fatherless children. Poor nutrition in the schools and at home. Taxes, taxes, taxes. Oil dependency. Printing money. Dummying down of the lower and middle classes. Bailouts, both for the working able poor and corporate America. A leader who can not fulfill his promises made to get into office. ....................

WOW....Fox News Much?

Eliot Rosewater

hollow bottle wrote:

The constant spending on Govt. programs. The government does not have the ability to run programs.

Uh, yeah. Exactly. Like the giant government TRILLION dollar WAR program? I assume that's what you're referring too, right?

ElRoi

markin ball wrote:

It is basically one issue for me.

Apathy.

We've had it so good for so long, really, that we as a people really won't get to the bottom of all these issues until it is so bad that we have no other choice. We are just one big "functioning alcoholic" of a nation, living in denial, that hasn't hit rock bottom yet.

"The United States of Apathy"

Or as Gore Vidal calls it "The United States of Amnesia."

They both apply equally well.

Cosmo

hollow bottle wrote:

Far left Liberals. They are the reason for the decline of our nation. Weak borders and a weak stance on illegal aliens. That law doesn't even matter anymore. Military with its hands tied fighting for what? Removing God from everything. Don't forget the principles this nation was founded on. The ACLU and the like are a joke. The constant spending on Govt. programs. The government does not have the ability to run programs. There is too much Nepotism and money being scooped up before it gets to where it was intended to go. Increased divorce rate. Abortion being used as birth control. Fatherless children. Poor nutrition in the schools and at home. Taxes, taxes, taxes. Oil dependency. Printing money. Dummying down of the lower and middle classes. Bailouts, both for the working able poor and corporate America. A leader who can not fulfill his promises made to get into office. ....................

...
Anyone else hear that loud, 'WHOOOOSHING' sound?
That's HollowBottle's credability rushing right out the window.

Commy

wonder what workers in the united states thought around 1900? they had to strike with guns being pointed at them-fired at them, and they still gave us the workers rights we all take for granted today.



wonder how many thought, "yeah this sucks and its never going to get better."

might have been more than a few. especially in 1850 or leading up to the action, probably many.


that took many years of what probably seemed liked no progress. that eddie line "change don't come from one its a wave"....is not entirely true. one person at some point had to say, " you know, this is fucked up". and that spread. that mentality. all it took was a conversation...its the same with any movement. back when women weren't allowed to vote and had no rights, they didn't even know what to call it. "the problem" was what they talked about.


that's the stage we are at now.


and in it it sucks. yeah people are greedy assholes and nothing's ever gonna change, i cna see that mentality being prevalent......while we're in the middle of it.



but someone has already started that "this is fucked up" conversation. people are learning, slowly, but they are learning. and when enough people realize this is no way for human beings to treat each other, change will come. the wave will break.


it always has. gotta have hope. history should give us that hope. they had it a lot worse than we do and they made it happen. so i believe we can make it happen too.

TriumphantAngel

Commy wrote:

wonder what workers in the united states thought around 1900? they had to strike with guns being pointed at them-fired at them, and they still gave us the workers rights we all take for granted today.



wonder how many thought, "yeah this sucks and its never going to get better."

might have been more than a few. especially in 1850 or leading up to the action, probably many.


that took many years of what probably seemed liked no progress. that eddie line "change don't come from one its a wave"....is not entirely true. one person at some point had to say, " you know, this is fucked up". and that spread. that mentality. all it took was a conversation...its the same with any movement. back when women weren't allowed to vote and had no rights, they didn't even know what to call it. "the problem" was what they talked about.


that's the stage we are at now.


and in it it sucks. yeah people are greedy assholes and nothing's ever gonna change, i cna see that mentality being prevalent......while we're in the middle of it.



but someone has already started that "this is fucked up" conversation. people are learning, slowly, but they are learning. and when enough people realize this is no way for human beings to treat each other, change will come. the wave will break.


it always has. gotta have hope. history should give us that hope. they had it a lot worse than we do and they made it happen. so i believe we can make it happen too.

commy gets it.

history has given people that hope.

what they chose to do with it is up to them.

Commy

TriumphantAngel wrote:

Commy wrote:

wonder what workers in the united states thought around 1900? they had to strike with guns being pointed at them-fired at them, and they still gave us the workers rights we all take for granted today.



wonder how many thought, "yeah this sucks and its never going to get better."

might have been more than a few. especially in 1850 or leading up to the action, probably many.


that took many years of what probably seemed liked no progress. that eddie line "change don't come from one its a wave"....is not entirely true. one person at some point had to say, " you know, this is fucked up". and that spread. that mentality. all it took was a conversation...its the same with any movement. back when women weren't allowed to vote and had no rights, they didn't even know what to call it. "the problem" was what they talked about.


that's the stage we are at now.


and in it it sucks. yeah people are greedy assholes and nothing's ever gonna change, i cna see that mentality being prevalent......while we're in the middle of it.



but someone has already started that "this is fucked up" conversation. people are learning, slowly, but they are learning. and when enough people realize this is no way for human beings to treat each other, change will come. the wave will break.


it always has. gotta have hope. history should give us that hope. they had it a lot worse than we do and they made it happen. so i believe we can make it happen too.

commy gets it.

history has given people that hope.

what they chose to do with it is up to them.

exactly. what we choose to do with it is up to us

Electric_Delta

Cosmo wrote:

hollow bottle wrote:

Far left Liberals. They are the reason for the decline of our nation. Weak borders and a weak stance on illegal aliens. That law doesn't even matter anymore. Military with its hands tied fighting for what? Removing God from everything. Don't forget the principles this nation was founded on. The ACLU and the like are a joke. The constant spending on Govt. programs. The government does not have the ability to run programs. There is too much Nepotism and money being scooped up before it gets to where it was intended to go. Increased divorce rate. Abortion being used as birth control. Fatherless children. Poor nutrition in the schools and at home. Taxes, taxes, taxes. Oil dependency. Printing money. Dummying down of the lower and middle classes. Bailouts, both for the working able poor and corporate America. A leader who can not fulfill his promises made to get into office. ....................

...
Anyone else hear that loud, 'WHOOOOSHING' sound?
That's HollowBottle's credability rushing right out the window.

I disagree. Some valid points were presented in that argument.

inmytree

hollow bottle wrote:

Far left Liberals. They are the reason for the decline of our nation. Weak borders and a weak stance on illegal aliens. That law doesn't even matter anymore. Military with its hands tied fighting for what? Removing God from everything. Don't forget the principles this nation was founded on. The ACLU and the like are a joke. The constant spending on Govt. programs. The government does not have the ability to run programs. There is too much Nepotism and money being scooped up before it gets to where it was intended to go. Increased divorce rate. Abortion being used as birth control. Fatherless children. Poor nutrition in the schools and at home. Taxes, taxes, taxes. Oil dependency. Printing money. Dummying down of the lower and middle classes. Bailouts, both for the working able poor and corporate America. A leader who can not fulfill his promises made to get into office. ....................

many of these items you listed have been happening for decades...

I love folks want to believe this started in Nov 2008...

Welcome to the Real World...you know, the one that's not perfect....

FiveB247x

This is the focus of my thread and comments though - not that things can't change, but more importantly people won't do what's necessary to change them.

TriumphantAngel wrote:

commy gets it.

history has given people that hope.

what they chose to do with it is up to them.

cajunkiwi

Entitlement seems to be a big problem to me too. Everyone feels that they're entitled to everything they want, and if they can't get it they complain that their rights are being violated. I work for a university, and as much as students may want to believe it, they don't have the RIGHT to have their grades changed. If you get a C in a class, you don't have the right to get an A just because you ask for it. I was talking to a friend of mine who is a teacher earlier and she was telling me that one of her students announced in class that "everyone just wants to be famous." As far as he was concerned, the goal in life is to get famous. Getting a reality show about your life (see: Real Housewives, Jersey Shore, etc) is now a legitimate career as far as kids are concerned... because they are now entitled to their 15 minutes of fame. A lot of kids don't think hard work is the way forward.

That being said, I think things will improve... in most cases, things get pretty low, and then enough people get sick of the situation (pun unintended) and there's a backlash. I'm just not sure how much lower things will go before that backlash occurs.

Electric_Delta

cajunkiwi wrote:

Entitlement seems to be a big problem to me too. Everyone feels that they're entitled to everything they want, and if they can't get it they complain that their rights are being violated. I work for a university, and as much as students may want to believe it, they don't have the RIGHT to have their grades changed. If you get a C in a class, you don't have the right to get an A just because you ask for it. I was talking to a friend of mine who is a teacher earlier and she was telling me that one of her students announced in class that "everyone just wants to be famous." As far as he was concerned, the goal in life is to get famous. Getting a reality show about your life (see: Real Housewives, Jersey Shore, etc) is now a legitimate career as far as kids are concerned... because they are now entitled to their 15 minutes of fame. A lot of kids don't think hard work is the way forward.

That being said, I think things will improve... in most cases, things get pretty low, and then enough people get sick of the situation (pun unintended) and there's a backlash. I'm just not sure how much lower things will go before that backlash occurs.

I agree. The sheer sense of entitlement among young people is absurd. Shame on them, shame on their parents for fostering it, and shame on the media outlets like MTV which pump the reality garbage into their impressionable minds.

FiveB247x

Shame on the kids, but more importantly shame on the parents and the people enabling it all. TV and this alter-reality we have setup in society is the mindset of many now. The "greatest generation" during WW2 came back from the great depression and war and moved to suburbia to settle in to a nice quiet family life with their children. Their kids (baby boomers) began the counter-culture with thoughts of a more free, open society, yet have morphed into the consumer driven hypocrites which have produced generation x and y which are more uncaring, aloof and out of touch with reality than most. Just a vicious chain of downgrading and morphing which is predicated upon entitlement, lack of accomplishment yet same reward and consumer driven to the max. It's just the slow and long process of braking down of society's moral and intellectual character. TV, media, internet, parenting, education, technology, etc.. this is what we have created.

Electric_Delta wrote:

I agree. The sheer sense of entitlement among young people is absurd. Shame on them, shame on their parents for fostering it, and shame on the media outlets like MTV which pump the reality garbage into their impressionable minds.

FiveB247x

Here's today's primaries results :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRhZISswW_k

FiveB247x

Happy Election Day - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIraCchPDhk