I still think this all boils down to one fundamental problem - people branding themselves as Democrat or Republican. We have two groups of people playing cat & mouse, offering concessions and gains, simply to try and stay in office. Progress is made in small increments, but typically only as a byproduct. The system is flawed.
We don't see "progress", all we end up with are small concessions to the status quo which is set by the ruling parties and big business. "We the people" are just here to flip the bill. The sooner people realize that, the sooner we'll all be better off.
I still think this all boils down to one fundamental problem - people branding themselves as Democrat or Republican. We have two groups of people playing cat & mouse, offering concessions and gains, simply to try and stay in office. Progress is made in small increments, but typically only as a byproduct. The system is flawed.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
and you know that this will never ever ever happen.
and the sooner that all of us stop believing that the government, or any other authority figure is going to magically stop and hold those responsible parties to account the better off we will be. those people got away with murder and crimes against humanity, and if we continue to believe that justice will be served then we are in denial and living a lie. and being in denial and living a lie is not living at all.....
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
and you know that this will never ever ever happen.
maybe. maybe not.
who knows, someday the american public might actually elect someone who will be untouched by corruption. somebody, somewhere has to love the truth.
you are giving the average american voter too much credit. we as a whole constantly vote against our own interests...
sorry if i sound pessimistic, but obama had the best chance to make a difference immediately, but he didn't. i am starting to think that anymore any politician running for president is more interested in the glamour of the position and all the power that goes with it instead of making the difficult choices to make things better or really fundamentaly change anything. they are all self serving instead of serving the population that they are charged with representing...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I completely agree with you. You could put anyone in power, and in the end, our system is so broken and impenetrable to real change, it just falls by the side. The only thing that would change everything is if the citizens of the nation all did their part to stay informed and force change... and that will never, ever occur. They've all been bought off by silly consumer items, distracted by nonsense on tv and taught to be ill-informed and obedient.
and you know that this will never ever ever happen.
maybe. maybe not.
who knows, someday the american public might actually elect someone who will be untouched by corruption. somebody, somewhere has to love the truth.
you are giving the average american voter too much credit. we as a whole constantly vote against our own interests...
sorry if i sound pessimistic, but obama had the best chance to make a difference immediately, but he didn't. i am starting to think that anymore any politician running for president is more interested in the glamour of the position and all the power that goes with it instead of making the difficult choices to make things better or really fundamentaly change anything. they are all self serving instead of serving the population that they are charged with representing...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I completely agree with you. You could put anyone in power, and in the end, our system is so broken and impenetrable to real change, it just falls by the side.
agreed. the system is the problem, not the individuals operating it.
The only thing that would change everything is if the citizens of the nation all did their part to stay informed and force change... and that will never, ever occur.
this ignores our history of victories against the ruling class. people were literally facing bullets to protest workers rights, and they pulled it off anyway, things we enjoy today. social progress has always prevailed, every single time. how hard must it have been for martin luthar king and the black population to stand there and take biting dogs, police baton, fire hoses, ridicule, racism, all of it. but they won, while facing extreme brutality, because the people always win. governments and empires fall, it is our history.
They've all been bought off by silly consumer items, distracted by nonsense on tv and taught to be ill-informed and obedient.
the propaganda facing people today is unprecedented, but so is the information available. i believe in people's ability to see through the bullshit...it may not be tomorrow, it sure as hell isnt' today, but eventually enough people will realize there is something fundamentally wrong with the US government, and that is when we will see change.
in the meantime it is up to us to try and inform people, to open conversations, to spread the word, to just try and let people know what the problem is. when the women's rights movement started they didn't even know what the problem was. they called it "the problem" and it was a vague idea. and they changed that. imagine it, when the first dissent appeared not know what they were fighting, only to eventually see significant progress towards equality.
the civil rights movement started with a conversation. so did the women's rights movement. so did every significant social movement we have ever seen. at some point 2 people sat down and said, "something is wrong". that is the first step. and where we are with today's government. the next is organization. then action. to be sure, there will be progress, there has always been.
Commy, don't want to be redundant and no point in repeating ourselves. We've already had this discussion earlier in this thread, so we'll have to agree to disagree. You feel there is hope and history is the guide, I feel there is no hope and history is merely in the past.
I completely agree with you. You could put anyone in power, and in the end, our system is so broken and impenetrable to real change, it just falls by the side.
agreed. the system is the problem, not the individuals operating it.
The only thing that would change everything is if the citizens of the nation all did their part to stay informed and force change... and that will never, ever occur.
this ignores our history of victories against the ruling class. people were literally facing bullets to protest workers rights, and they pulled it off anyway, things we enjoy today. social progress has always prevailed, every single time. how hard must it have been for martin luthar king and the black population to stand there and take biting dogs, police baton, fire hoses, ridicule, racism, all of it. but they won, while facing extreme brutality, because the people always win. governments and empires fall, it is our history.
They've all been bought off by silly consumer items, distracted by nonsense on tv and taught to be ill-informed and obedient.
the propaganda facing people today is unprecedented, but so is the information available. i believe in people's ability to see through the bullshit...it may not be tomorrow, it sure as hell isnt' today, but eventually enough people will realize there is something fundamentally wrong with the US government, and that is when we will see change.
in the meantime it is up to us to try and inform people, to open conversations, to spread the word, to just try and let people know what the problem is. when the women's rights movement started they didn't even know what the problem was. they called it "the problem" and it was a vague idea. and they changed that. imagine it, when the first dissent appeared not know what they were fighting, only to eventually see significant progress towards equality.
the civil rights movement started with a conversation. so did the women's rights movement. so did every significant social movement we have ever seen. at some point 2 people sat down and said, "something is wrong". that is the first step. and where we are with today's government. the next is organization. then action. to be sure, there will be progress, there has always been.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Commy, don't want to be redundant and no point in repeating ourselves. We've already had this discussion earlier in this thread, so we'll have to agree to disagree. You feel there is hope and history is the guide, I feel there is no hope and history is merely in the past.
alright,
so...there is a no hope, were all fucked mentality, lets say.
we are all doomed to fail, according to you, life is a perpetual 'fuck yes' to authority, people operate to serve the elite.
whats the next step? as an individual in this system?
I would more aptly call it "the game is rigged" and it's beyond repair due to people's inability to follow through and the system's impenetrable ways which have become more vastly in depth and practice. Albeit, I would love just as much as the next person for things to improve, I do not feel they will. Anyways, between political, social and environmental problems we face which progressively are getting worse (either nationally or internationally), my philosophy is try and do what you can, but live life to enjoy and don't truly expect anything in the long term from the system or government. Whether it's social security, benefits, retirement, justice or anything similar.. our system and society are slowly breaking down and everyone needs to lower their expectation level a ton as well as become more self-sufficient as possible (within reason) and cross your fingers and hope for the best.
so...there is a no hope, were all fucked mentality, lets say.
we are all doomed to fail, according to you, life is a perpetual 'fuck yes' to authority, people operate to serve the elite.
whats the next step? as an individual in this system?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
So uh..where's the next wave of brilliance to help fix our country? Perhaps they just got their pre-k or kindergarten cut because we gave one too many checks to Wall Street and made a few too many stealth bombers? But don't worry, this gay marriage thing, silly scandals and polarizing two party system will remedy all... keep voting like you hope it accounts for anything.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
How? Is the answer to just repeat a slogan and hope it works itself out? That seems to be the answer when running for office but don't worry, they never actually follow through on any of those silly campaign promises. It's just a show..
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
How? Is the answer to just repeat a slogan and hope it works itself out? That seems to be the answer when running for office but don't worry, they never actually follow through on any of those silly campaign promises. It's just a show..
If you want to know why nothing will change for the better in the US it all boils down to these 4 major issues below. Whether it's immigration, foreign policy, economy, environment or similar... in no order:
- Poor government oversight backed by policies which are exclusionary to make necessary changes which are wanted and needed by all.
- No participation by citizens to keep the government and big business in check
- Big business's control over policy, lobbying and government
- Government not giving a crap about the citizens (self-interest)
- Media being owned and run by big business so people are ill-informed and become more polar in beliefs. Less educated, shorter attention spans and the similar.
Time and time again our society has shown to sit on its hands and just become too complacent and comfortable. We live in the height of the technology and information age but it's used for the most destructive things compared to improve the world around us. People have become more polarized and taught to be less accepting of others ideas and beliefs. I certainly always hope things will get better, but to be honest,I have zero faith in my fellow man...and the quicker people wake up to realize these core problems, the sooner they'll get fixed, but no one really wants to bother or be bothered.
I just had to give this a bump. Now back to [insert idiotic "reality show" or celebrity worship rag here].
in any case - i would say it comes down to these things:
* a weak democracy (apathetic and ignorant)
* inability of populace to think critically
* corporate control of gov't increasing because of the first two items
in any case - i would say it comes down to these things:
* a weak democracy (apathetic and ignorant)
* inability of populace to think critically
* corporate control of gov't increasing because of the first two items
as an outsider, i find the major problems is the sense of superiority that America has. there are countries in the world that do things better than America but America doesn't want to learn from those countries.
America has some great qualities that other countries look at and try to emulate and i think America could do the same.
The second issue i see (and i hope people don't get offended here) is that i meet so many Americans who are like children. i can't remember how many times i hear " This is a free country so fuck anyone who says no to me" even this whole debt ceiling thing. I cant believe that there are idiots out there who were saying no to raising the ceiling no matter what.
as an outsider, i find the major problems is the sense of superiority that America has. there are countries in the world that do things better than America but America doesn't want to learn from those countries.
America has some great qualities that other countries look at and try to emulate and i think America could do the same.
The second issue i see (and i hope people don't get offended here) is that i meet so many Americans who are like children. i can't remember how many times i hear " This is a free country so fuck anyone who says no to me" even this whole debt ceiling thing. I cant believe that there are idiots out there who were saying no to raising the ceiling no matter what.
On the first issue, well put, my friend. The idea of American Exceptionalism (which has led to the dangerous notion of jingoism and disastrous foreign policy measures) has become so warped that it has transformed a great country into a stubborn old man. Times change and old men need to learn new things.
On the second issue, I fear that you are right. The false, bloated sense of entitlement in this country is absurd. it has destroyed any notion of what it takes to be a functioning society and replaced it with a warped sense of individualism where everyone is so fixated on accumulating more wealth and more material possessions than their neighbors. Quite silly if you ask me.
as an outsider, i find the major problems is the sense of superiority that America has. there are countries in the world that do things better than America but America doesn't want to learn from those countries.
America has some great qualities that other countries look at and try to emulate and i think America could do the same.
The second issue i see (and i hope people don't get offended here) is that i meet so many Americans who are like children. i can't remember how many times i hear " This is a free country so fuck anyone who says no to me" even this whole debt ceiling thing. I cant believe that there are idiots out there who were saying no to raising the ceiling no matter what.
On the first issue, well put, my friend. The idea of American Exceptionalism (which has led to the dangerous notion of jingoism and disastrous foreign policy measures) has become so warped that it has transformed a great country into a stubborn old man. Times change and old men need to learn new things.
On the second issue, I fear that you are right. The false, bloated sense of entitlement in this country is absurd. it has destroyed any notion of what it takes to be a functioning society and replaced it with a warped sense of individualism where everyone is so fixated on accumulating more wealth and more material possessions than their neighbors. Quite silly if you ask me.
I don't think that its just about getting more material possession (but that's a big one). just look at this debt ceiling thing> i can't believe that people were basically saying "fuck raising the ceiling and therefore paying our bills for things that we ALREADY got" its funny that the people who didn't want America to pay its bills are the same people who said "fuck off to those people who couldn't pay their mortgage"
I wish America didn't raise the ceiling cause i would have loved to have seen who the government would pay for first. that way the people of America would finally realized that their government don't give a fuck about them.
as an outsider, i find the major problems is the sense of superiority that America has. there are countries in the world that do things better than America but America doesn't want to learn from those countries.
America has some great qualities that other countries look at and try to emulate and i think America could do the same.
The second issue i see (and i hope people don't get offended here) is that i meet so many Americans who are like children. i can't remember how many times i hear " This is a free country so fuck anyone who says no to me" even this whole debt ceiling thing. I cant believe that there are idiots out there who were saying no to raising the ceiling no matter what.
On the first issue, well put, my friend. The idea of American Exceptionalism (which has led to the dangerous notion of jingoism and disastrous foreign policy measures) has become so warped that it has transformed a great country into a stubborn old man. Times change and old men need to learn new things.
On the second issue, I fear that you are right. The false, bloated sense of entitlement in this country is absurd. it has destroyed any notion of what it takes to be a functioning society and replaced it with a warped sense of individualism where everyone is so fixated on accumulating more wealth and more material possessions than their neighbors. Quite silly if you ask me.
First issue, yes, American Exceptionalism can be a problem for those who think we can do no wrong. I certainly know that we have done plenty of bad things in the past and continue to do them. However, I believe we are more of a positive force in this world than negative. We have it very good here in the US. I think of "WMA" and realize that I shouldn't complain about the small things in my life that go bad, because I'm lucky to have it so good here. As a Christian, I do my best to help those that are less fortunate.
Second issue, I am all for more personal liberty and responsibility, in both the citizens and our gov't. We could go back to our budget from 6,7, 10 years ago, and wouldn't have to raise the debt ceiling. This will be a recurring problem every couple years, until we do something about it. I was all for drawing in the sand right now. When will we start trimming away at the debt? Will there ever be a president who doesn't have to raise the debt ceiling?
as an outsider, i find the major problems is the sense of superiority that America has. there are countries in the world that do things better than America but America doesn't want to learn from those countries.
America has some great qualities that other countries look at and try to emulate and i think America could do the same.
The second issue i see (and i hope people don't get offended here) is that i meet so many Americans who are like children. i can't remember how many times i hear " This is a free country so fuck anyone who says no to me" even this whole debt ceiling thing. I cant believe that there are idiots out there who were saying no to raising the ceiling no matter what.
On the first issue, well put, my friend. The idea of American Exceptionalism (which has led to the dangerous notion of jingoism and disastrous foreign policy measures) has become so warped that it has transformed a great country into a stubborn old man. Times change and old men need to learn new things.
On the second issue, I fear that you are right. The false, bloated sense of entitlement in this country is absurd. it has destroyed any notion of what it takes to be a functioning society and replaced it with a warped sense of individualism where everyone is so fixated on accumulating more wealth and more material possessions than their neighbors. Quite silly if you ask me.
First issue, yes, American Exceptionalism can be a problem for those who think we can do no wrong. I certainly know that we have done plenty of bad things in the past and continue to do them. However, I believe we are more of a positive force in this world than negative. We have it very good here in the US. I think of "WMA" and realize that I shouldn't complain about the small things in my life that go bad, because I'm lucky to have it so good here. As a Christian, I do my best to help those that are less fortunate.
Second issue, I am all for more personal liberty and responsibility, in both the citizens and our gov't. We could go back to our budget from 6,7, 10 years ago, and wouldn't have to raise the debt ceiling. This will be a recurring problem every couple years, until we do something about it. I was all for drawing in the sand right now. When will we start trimming away at the debt? Will there ever be a president who doesn't have to raise the debt ceiling?
I understand what you are saying but i have some questions for you. what do you mean by personal liberty? i find that for some it means leave me alone and let me do what i want. that doesn't work in a society. i hear alot here about how poor people should just work and stop robbing us of our taxes. as for the budget of 6,7,10 years ago, at that time the debt ceiling was raised. we have to understand that prices rise and what cost $2 last year cost now $3 now.
as for drawing the line, i agree but where do we do that? the tea party people are irresponsible when they said no to raising the limit as they were basically saying that its OK not to pay your bills.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Comments
Even better...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC_wjQtf ... ture=share
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
people like cheney, bush, rumsfield, blankfein, murdoch etc, i could go on all day. that''s just a start.
put them on trial, and if convicted send them to jail. treat them like every other person. no special rules for them. they have a lot to answer for.
then see if the next leaders are as keen to carry on in the same way. somehow i think not.
and the sooner that all of us stop believing that the government, or any other authority figure is going to magically stop and hold those responsible parties to account the better off we will be. those people got away with murder and crimes against humanity, and if we continue to believe that justice will be served then we are in denial and living a lie. and being in denial and living a lie is not living at all.....
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
who knows, someday the american public might actually elect someone who will be untouched by corruption. somebody, somewhere has to love the truth.
sorry if i sound pessimistic, but obama had the best chance to make a difference immediately, but he didn't. i am starting to think that anymore any politician running for president is more interested in the glamour of the position and all the power that goes with it instead of making the difficult choices to make things better or really fundamentaly change anything. they are all self serving instead of serving the population that they are charged with representing...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
agreed. the system is the problem, not the individuals operating it.
this ignores our history of victories against the ruling class. people were literally facing bullets to protest workers rights, and they pulled it off anyway, things we enjoy today. social progress has always prevailed, every single time. how hard must it have been for martin luthar king and the black population to stand there and take biting dogs, police baton, fire hoses, ridicule, racism, all of it. but they won, while facing extreme brutality, because the people always win. governments and empires fall, it is our history.
the propaganda facing people today is unprecedented, but so is the information available. i believe in people's ability to see through the bullshit...it may not be tomorrow, it sure as hell isnt' today, but eventually enough people will realize there is something fundamentally wrong with the US government, and that is when we will see change.
in the meantime it is up to us to try and inform people, to open conversations, to spread the word, to just try and let people know what the problem is. when the women's rights movement started they didn't even know what the problem was. they called it "the problem" and it was a vague idea. and they changed that. imagine it, when the first dissent appeared not know what they were fighting, only to eventually see significant progress towards equality.
the civil rights movement started with a conversation. so did the women's rights movement. so did every significant social movement we have ever seen. at some point 2 people sat down and said, "something is wrong". that is the first step. and where we are with today's government. the next is organization. then action. to be sure, there will be progress, there has always been.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
alright,
so...there is a no hope, were all fucked mentality, lets say.
we are all doomed to fail, according to you, life is a perpetual 'fuck yes' to authority, people operate to serve the elite.
whats the next step? as an individual in this system?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I would love it, but those that you mentioned - the ones who are in power - also are in control of the judicial branch.
We are powerless.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
YES!.......WE!........CAN!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Does anyone here know when I am kidding and when I am serious?
I was just joking around.....
Don't take me too serious...
I just had to give this a bump. Now back to [insert idiotic "reality show" or celebrity worship rag here].
in any case - i would say it comes down to these things:
* a weak democracy (apathetic and ignorant)
* inability of populace to think critically
* corporate control of gov't increasing because of the first two items
bump
America has some great qualities that other countries look at and try to emulate and i think America could do the same.
The second issue i see (and i hope people don't get offended here) is that i meet so many Americans who are like children. i can't remember how many times i hear " This is a free country so fuck anyone who says no to me" even this whole debt ceiling thing. I cant believe that there are idiots out there who were saying no to raising the ceiling no matter what.
On the first issue, well put, my friend. The idea of American Exceptionalism (which has led to the dangerous notion of jingoism and disastrous foreign policy measures) has become so warped that it has transformed a great country into a stubborn old man. Times change and old men need to learn new things.
On the second issue, I fear that you are right. The false, bloated sense of entitlement in this country is absurd. it has destroyed any notion of what it takes to be a functioning society and replaced it with a warped sense of individualism where everyone is so fixated on accumulating more wealth and more material possessions than their neighbors. Quite silly if you ask me.
I don't think that its just about getting more material possession (but that's a big one). just look at this debt ceiling thing> i can't believe that people were basically saying "fuck raising the ceiling and therefore paying our bills for things that we ALREADY got" its funny that the people who didn't want America to pay its bills are the same people who said "fuck off to those people who couldn't pay their mortgage"
I wish America didn't raise the ceiling cause i would have loved to have seen who the government would pay for first. that way the people of America would finally realized that their government don't give a fuck about them.
First issue, yes, American Exceptionalism can be a problem for those who think we can do no wrong. I certainly know that we have done plenty of bad things in the past and continue to do them. However, I believe we are more of a positive force in this world than negative. We have it very good here in the US. I think of "WMA" and realize that I shouldn't complain about the small things in my life that go bad, because I'm lucky to have it so good here. As a Christian, I do my best to help those that are less fortunate.
Second issue, I am all for more personal liberty and responsibility, in both the citizens and our gov't. We could go back to our budget from 6,7, 10 years ago, and wouldn't have to raise the debt ceiling. This will be a recurring problem every couple years, until we do something about it. I was all for drawing in the sand right now. When will we start trimming away at the debt? Will there ever be a president who doesn't have to raise the debt ceiling?
I understand what you are saying but i have some questions for you. what do you mean by personal liberty? i find that for some it means leave me alone and let me do what i want. that doesn't work in a society. i hear alot here about how poor people should just work and stop robbing us of our taxes. as for the budget of 6,7,10 years ago, at that time the debt ceiling was raised. we have to understand that prices rise and what cost $2 last year cost now $3 now.
as for drawing the line, i agree but where do we do that? the tea party people are irresponsible when they said no to raising the limit as they were basically saying that its OK not to pay your bills.
Please; step away from the crack pipe.
will crack, like heroin, be legal when ron paul is president?
Yeah, and when pigs grow wings, they can fly.
nope. i vote all the time.
i was also sending my senator emails, but all i ever got back was a canned response. they don't listen, that's the real problem.