French MPs vote to ban full veil

fuck

sickening

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10611398.stm

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this... does anyone here actually support this? would anyone like to see something similar in the US? if so, why?

gimmesometruth27

i find it sickening as well. why the hell can we not live and let live in this world anymore? someone always has to dictate to someone else what they are allowed to say or do, or in this case, wear. what would happen if they banned people from wearing gaudy huge gold cross bling necklaces or the traditional jewish headwear? this is the same thing as banning those things.

haffajappa

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i find it sickening as well. why the hell can we not live and let live in this world anymore? someone always has to dictate to someone else what they are allowed to say or do, or in this case, wear. what would happen if they banned people from wearing gaudy huge gold cross bling necklaces or the traditional jewish headwear? this is the same thing as banning those things.

yeah... i can understand in certain situations (passport photos, security reasons etc) but all the time?
if they want to wear it then so be it...

redrock

It's not just for the full veil, it's any face covering, though obviously the burqa is a prime example of this. Full face covering is already banned in Belgium (I think) and in other countries (I know of the Netherlands but there are others), face covering - which by the way includes masks - is banned in schools, public transport, etc.

_

Unless there's some information I'm missing or argument that escapes me, I'm opposed to such bans.

redrock

I think they say banning full covering of the face in public places is for security reasons.

Hub.

Redrock is absolutely right: "it's any face covering", basically.

But ministers add that, in the burqa situation, many women don't choose to wear it but are forced by their husbands (or family pressures) and that, in the name of human dignity and sex equality, it should be banned... yeah... whatever!!! :roll:

My opinion: I really don't care:

1. I live in the countryside and these problems are far away from me.
2. I voted against Sarkozy, during the last election. Apparently, it wasn't obvious enough this guy was a bad lot. So now, if French people are fed up with him, next time, they’ll vote for somebody else.

The problem isn’t only the veil, many reforms are actually voted. This is one of the rare ones you have access to. In France, democracy’s in danger, for sure.

France gets 25th rank.

Smellyman

Yes it is for secuity reasons hard to ID somebody especially somone who may have robbed a store or something if they have their face covered.

Won't be too long before loons start wearing burkas to get away with crime.

Got a hard hard head

Why is it sickening?

I'm not starting an argument here, but it really fucks me off how reactions change.

What is the difference between having to adhere with, what is basically, socially acceptable dress codes and conduct in one country and yet not in another?

For example, when it is really hot could men walk round in jeans but no shirt in every country? No they couldn't. So does that make one country right and one wrong? People are free to live in whatever country they choose, but they should be mindful of the fact that they need to adapt to traditions, culture and society in general.

To do otherwise, for example to wear a full burka, instantly alienates you from the majority. Add on to this stereotypical views and you start to create suspicion, unease and, in extreme cases, hate and prejudice. These opinions may have been created by many different types of stimuli and the resultant reaction the wrong one, but it causes a reaction nonetheless.

blackredyellow

haffajappa wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i find it sickening as well. why the hell can we not live and let live in this world anymore? someone always has to dictate to someone else what they are allowed to say or do, or in this case, wear. what would happen if they banned people from wearing gaudy huge gold cross bling necklaces or the traditional jewish headwear? this is the same thing as banning those things.

yeah... i can understand in certain situations (passport photos, security reasons etc) but all the time?
if they want to wear it then so be it...

I agree... I know banks have rules about not wearing hats or whatever at the teller counter so the camera can see your face... those kinds of rules make sense. Even at an airport, I wouldn't expect to be able to go through security with a ski mask on, so if they have to remove them there, I don't have a problem with that.

But every day life? I don't have any problem with people wearing what they want...

blackredyellow

Got a hard hard head wrote:

To do otherwise, for example to wear a full burka, instantly alienates you from the majority. Add on to this stereotypical views and you start to create suspicion, unease and, in extreme cases, hate and prejudice. These opinions may have been created by many different types of stimuli and the resultant reaction the wrong one, but it causes a reaction nonetheless.

I tend to agree, but what right does a government have in legislating this stuff?

On an anecdotal note though, we were at the Sesame Place amusement park (outside of Philly) last month... it was like 100 degrees... literally... it's half water park, so most people were in some form of bathing suit or another. There was a family we saw throughout the day, the guy & kids had shorts/trunks on and tank tops or t-shirts... his wife (assuming) was in a full black burqa. I guess having your wife suffer from heat stroke is better than other people seeing any part of her except her eyes. I don't get it at all... but like I said, I don't think the gov't should make laws about it.

Godfather.

_outlaw wrote:

sickening

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10611398.stm

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this... does anyone here actually support this? would anyone like to see something similar in the US? if so, why?

it is what it is, there must be some concerns with this from the countries that will not allow it, not every country will give in to and bend over backward to make foreigners happy like the US dose.
just a thought.

Godfather.

know1

Some people just love to rely on the government to control every aspect of their lives.....until they are told what to wear and then suddenly it's sickening.

I'm against the ban, btw.

gimmesometruth27

Godfather. wrote:

_outlaw wrote:

sickening

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10611398.stm

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this... does anyone here actually support this? would anyone like to see something similar in the US? if so, why?

it is what it is, there must be some concerns with this from the countries that will not allow it, not every country will give in to and bend over backward to make foreigners happy like the US dose.
just a thought.

Godfather.

"gove in and bend over backwards to make foreigners happy like the us does"???? like with the new arizona immigration law?

Godfather.

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

_outlaw wrote:

sickening

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10611398.stm

I'm interested to hear thoughts on this... does anyone here actually support this? would anyone like to see something similar in the US? if so, why?

it is what it is, there must be some concerns with this from the countries that will not allow it, not every country will give in to and bend over backward to make foreigners happy like the US dose.
just a thought.

Godfather.

"give in and bend over backwards to make foreigners happy like the us does"???? like with the new Arizona immigration law?

gove...thanks for pointing that out, the new Arizona law has been a long time coming and it's not finished yet I believe, this is just my opinion and apparently that of many others, I wont argue this with you because it will not change my feelings on the issue.
as far as the vail goes I see the concerns that may be seen but one way or the other it means little to me.

Godfather.

unlost dogs

Schools increasingly ban dew rags and similar garments that have, in some circumstances, been linked to gangs or whatever... and I know I read last year about a school system that attempted to ban a Muslim girl from wearing a veil.

Where do you draw the line? A dew rag? Yarmluke? A veil that fully covers a female's hair? One that covers some of her her face? A full burka?

At what point does an individual's right to express themselves or their personal beliefs intersect and collide with the rights of others to feel secure or just comfortable?

Does the fact that its a burka donned for religious reasons make it more valid than if it's a dew rag worn because you like the way you look in it?

Haven't got an answer. Just saying it's a slippery slope.

Jason P

unlost dogs wrote:

Schools increasingly ban dew rags and similar garments that have, in some circumstances, been linked to gangs or whatever... and I know I read last year about a school system that attempted to ban a Muslim girl from wearing a veil.

Where do you draw the line? A dew rag? Yarmluke? A veil that fully covers a female's hair? One that covers some of her her face? A full burka?

At what point does an individual's right to express themselves or their personal beliefs intersect and collide with the rights of others to feel secure or just comfortable?

Does the fact that its a burka donned for religious reasons make it more valid than if it's a dew rag worn because you like the way you look in it?

Haven't got an answer. Just saying it's a slippery slope.

Just mandate that everyone wear those skull cap thingys that the NFL approved a few years back. Problem solved!

Got a hard hard head

Jason P wrote:

unlost dogs wrote:

At what point does an individual's right to express themselves or their personal beliefs intersect and collide with the rights of others to feel secure or just comfortable?

Does the fact that its a burka donned for religious reasons make it more valid than if it's a dew rag worn because you like the way you look in it?

Haven't got an answer. Just saying it's a slippery slope.

The problem is that there is a massive amount of double standards that goes on and this just makes the problem even more complex.

Such as this story:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/289785

gimmesometruth27

to me it just seems like an attack on islam. if you ban the religious symbols and clothing then what is next?

personally i think all religion is stupid, but i fully support the rights of the faithful to wear whatever their faith asks/allows them to wear.

redrock

unlost dogs wrote:

Does the fact that its a burka donned for religious reasons make it more valid than if it's a dew rag worn because you like the way you look in it?.

Burkas are not worn for religious reasons.

Regarding the banning of religious symbols, a lot of major companies and non religious schools already ban wearing overtly any religious symbol that is not 'demanded' by their religion. Eg a cross on a chain is a no-no but the dastaar is fine because it is manatory attire in Sikhism. On the other hand, the jewish yarmulke is also a no-no because their faith do not require them to wear it all the time (only during prayer).

blackredyellow

redrock wrote:

unlost dogs wrote:

Does the fact that its a burka donned for religious reasons make it more valid than if it's a dew rag worn because you like the way you look in it?.

Burkas are not worn for religious reasons.

ok... but they are worn for reasons based on a religious culture.