French MPs vote to ban full veil
fuck
Posts: 4,069
sickening
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10611398.stm
I'm interested to hear thoughts on this... does anyone here actually support this? would anyone like to see something similar in the US? if so, why?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10611398.stm
I'm interested to hear thoughts on this... does anyone here actually support this? would anyone like to see something similar in the US? if so, why?
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"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
if they want to wear it then so be it...
But ministers add that, in the burqa situation, many women don't choose to wear it but are forced by their husbands (or family pressures) and that, in the name of human dignity and sex equality, it should be banned... yeah... whatever!!! :roll:
My opinion: I really don't care:
1. I live in the countryside and these problems are far away from me.
2. I voted against Sarkozy, during the last election. Apparently, it wasn't obvious enough this guy was a bad lot. So now, if French people are fed up with him, next time, they’ll vote for somebody else.
The problem isn’t only the veil, many reforms are actually voted. This is one of the rare ones you have access to. In France, democracy’s in danger, for sure.
France gets 25th rank.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/ZaRoFF/95885951739?created#!/profile.php?id=100001560978213
Won't be too long before loons start wearing burkas to get away with crime.
I'm not starting an argument here, but it really fucks me off how reactions change.
What is the difference between having to adhere with, what is basically, socially acceptable dress codes and conduct in one country and yet not in another?
For example, when it is really hot could men walk round in jeans but no shirt in every country? No they couldn't. So does that make one country right and one wrong? People are free to live in whatever country they choose, but they should be mindful of the fact that they need to adapt to traditions, culture and society in general.
To do otherwise, for example to wear a full burka, instantly alienates you from the majority. Add on to this stereotypical views and you start to create suspicion, unease and, in extreme cases, hate and prejudice. These opinions may have been created by many different types of stimuli and the resultant reaction the wrong one, but it causes a reaction nonetheless.
I agree... I know banks have rules about not wearing hats or whatever at the teller counter so the camera can see your face... those kinds of rules make sense. Even at an airport, I wouldn't expect to be able to go through security with a ski mask on, so if they have to remove them there, I don't have a problem with that.
But every day life? I don't have any problem with people wearing what they want...
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I tend to agree, but what right does a government have in legislating this stuff?
On an anecdotal note though, we were at the Sesame Place amusement park (outside of Philly) last month... it was like 100 degrees... literally... it's half water park, so most people were in some form of bathing suit or another. There was a family we saw throughout the day, the guy & kids had shorts/trunks on and tank tops or t-shirts... his wife (assuming) was in a full black burqa. I guess having your wife suffer from heat stroke is better than other people seeing any part of her except her eyes. I don't get it at all... but like I said, I don't think the gov't should make laws about it.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
it is what it is, there must be some concerns with this from the countries that will not allow it, not every country will give in to and bend over backward to make foreigners happy like the US dose.
just a thought.
Godfather.
I'm against the ban, btw.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
gove...thanks for pointing that out, the new Arizona law has been a long time coming and it's not finished yet I believe, this is just my opinion and apparently that of many others, I wont argue this with you because it will not change my feelings on the issue.
as far as the vail goes I see the concerns that may be seen but one way or the other it means little to me.
Godfather.
Where do you draw the line? A dew rag? Yarmluke? A veil that fully covers a female's hair? One that covers some of her her face? A full burka?
At what point does an individual's right to express themselves or their personal beliefs intersect and collide with the rights of others to feel secure or just comfortable?
Does the fact that its a burka donned for religious reasons make it more valid than if it's a dew rag worn because you like the way you look in it?
Haven't got an answer. Just saying it's a slippery slope.
The problem is that there is a massive amount of double standards that goes on and this just makes the problem even more complex.
Such as this story:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/289785
personally i think all religion is stupid, but i fully support the rights of the faithful to wear whatever their faith asks/allows them to wear.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Regarding the banning of religious symbols, a lot of major companies and non religious schools already ban wearing overtly any religious symbol that is not 'demanded' by their religion. Eg a cross on a chain is a no-no but the dastaar is fine because it is manatory attire in Sikhism. On the other hand, the jewish yarmulke is also a no-no because their faith do not require them to wear it all the time (only during prayer).
ok... but they are worn for reasons based on a religious culture.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I wouldn't say so. Very few actually wear the burka. It's a question of modesty and old, male dominated traditions, not really the modern muslim faith.
...but I gotta say, what a shitty tradition where women are meant to cover their entire faces or their heads. Men should have to wear them too then... I'm not trying to bash anyone's religion or tradition or whatever, but some people are just brainwashed from birth on what they have to do - especially in their servitude to man :roll:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/ZaRoFF/95885951739?created#!/profile.php?id=100001560978213
to wear a burka alienates you from the majority? i did not know people are forced to do what the majority does, what kind of fucking sick logic is that?? i guess we should just restrict freedom of religion in general, since being a muslim alienates you from the majority. "Add on to this stereotypical views and you start to create suspicion, unease and, in extreme cases, hate and prejudice." so what do you do? rather than target and try to stop stereotypes and hate and prejudice, you force the people who have done nothing wrong to remove something they choose to wear. how is france just a liberal country if it's restricting other people's freedom?
if people don't like looking at someone who's wearing a burka, go sit somewhere else, but don't force the person to remove it, it's sickening. all this not mentioning that only 2000 people in the country wear it. how often in a country with what 70 million or something are you likely to run into one.
1. Security - People can't be identified if you can't see their faces.
2. Security - People don't feel safe around others who display these cultural symbols.
3. Choice - Women should not be forced to conform to sexist ideologies.
4. Choice - Women should not be allowed to dress this way even if they want to.
5. Nationalism - Foreigners should conform to the styles of the culture of the country they live in.
Et cetera.
Personally, I think #2, #4, & # 5 are bullshit. #2. The world should not be forced to conform to the ideologies and fears of close-minded bigots. This is not analogous to gang symbols & the violence associated with them. #4. I think the problem here is that people impose their own ideologies onto all women, assuming that no one would want to dress this way. But some women do want to, of their own free will. Saying they can't wear veils is no different than saying they can't wear shorts or saying women can't wear pants. #5. Same old shit from the same old people. :roll:
I agree with #1 & #3. #1.When entering high security areas, like banks or airports, people shouldn't be allowed to cover their faces. But there need not be a special law aimed at veils (if that's actually the case). This should just fall into the same category as sunglasses, hats, etc. The problem is that they seem to be picking on the dress of a certain culture. And that's a pretty big problem. #3. I agree that women shouldn't be forced to conform to sexist ideologies. I just think this kind of law does more harm than good. It would be like saying since it's sexist to believe that women's sole purpose is to have children, all women are banned from having children.
Just my $0.02.
Again, the burka or the niqab are not a dictate of the muslim faith. They are not worn for religious expression (contrary to the dastaar). There is absolutely no need for a woman to wear one. Not many do and most of the ones I know who do is because of husbands, fathers, brothers. Not because they find it comfy, becoming, useful or anything like that.
The veil is not mentioned at all in the law. It is for ALL articles of clothing, masks, balaklavas, etc. that completelycover the face. The main argument is a security one for all public places. Also, I guess, one could ask why in the street... because there are cameras tracking your every move everywhere...
Hail, Hail!!!