Jagged Little Pill ~ Rubbish or Actually Brilliant?

PearlOfAGirl

Your thoughts... I'll start with the lyrics to Ironic....

An old man turned ninety-eight
He won the lottery and died the next day
It's a black fly in your Chardonnay
It's a death row pardon two minutes too late
Isn't it ironic ... don't you think

It's like rain on your wedding day
It's a free ride when you've already paid
It's the good advice that you just didn't take
Who would've thought ... it figures

Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly
He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids good-bye
He waited his whole damn life to take that flight
And as the plane crashed down he thought
'Well isn't this nice...'
And isn't it ironic ... don't you think

Well life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
When you think everything's okay and everything's going right
And life has a funny way of helping you out when
You think everything's gone wrong and everything blows up
In your face

It's a traffic jam when you're already late
It's a no-smoking sign on your cigarette break
It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife
It's meeting the man of my dreams
And then meeting his beautiful wife
And isn't it ironic... don't you think
A little too ironic... and yeah I really do think...

Life has a funny way of sneaking up on you
Life has a funny, funny way of helping you out
Helping you out

marcos

Alanis is very cool an Jagged Little Pill was a great record but I'm not sure that brilliant is the right word. She has a good sense and really doesn't take herself that seriously.

tremors

Jesus, where do you start?

'It's a death row pardon two minutes too late'

That's not ironic that's fucking criminal!! and negligent.


Ok, before we go any further beloved HSB, let's get the correct definition of irony! .... (to follow)

BinauralJam

tremors

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony

1.
The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
2.
An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
3.
A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.
4.
Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: "Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated" (Richard Kain).
5.
An occurrence, result, or circumstance notable for such incongruity.

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1.
the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.

2.
Literature .

a.
a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.

b.
(esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.

an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

the incongruity of this.

an objectively sardonic style of speech or writing.
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1.

The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.
2.

An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.
3.

A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. .
4.


[French ironie , from Old French, from Latin īrōnīa , from Greek eirōneia , feigned ignorance , from eirōn , dissembler , probably from eirein , to say ; see wer- 5 in Indo-European roots.]


The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

PearlOfAGirl

tremors wrote:

Jesus, where do you start?

'It's a death row pardon two minutes too late'

That's not ironic that's fucking criminal!! and negligent.


Ok, before we go any further beloved HSB, let's get the correct definition of irony! .... (to follow)

The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply "coincidental" or "improbable," in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly.

tremors

OK, I get it - 'isn't it sardonic?' , 'and yeah I really do think'

Isn't it ironic? not sure yet. Needs further study!!

My hypothesis is she is confusing / conflating irony sarcasm and being sardonic

tremors

there is a hell of a lot of litotes in there!!

tremors

HeartShapedBox wrote:

tremors wrote:

Jesus, where do you start?

'It's a death row pardon two minutes too late'

That's not ironic that's fucking criminal!! and negligent.


Ok, before we go any further beloved HSB, let's get the correct definition of irony! .... (to follow)

The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply "coincidental" or "improbable," in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly.

Hmmm, I think she's done a great job of further confusing everyone on the planet, (including myself) as to what irony actually means - especially for us brits who know the difference between irony and bloody terrible misfortune

PearlOfAGirl

It's what I do, what can I say tremors...

markin ball

Rubbish...Glen Ballard horseshit. She list her virginity to Dave Coulier for chrissakes!

PearlOfAGirl

Now, this is ironic... An old man turned ninety-eight
He won the lottery and died the next day. Don't you think?

tremors

No, that's tragic.


HSB - this is how I understand irony

"Hyde noted the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated"


It is something about how 'un-poetic' (made up word!) the situation is. (often) as in, the irony of doing the opposite of what you stand for.

What Alanis seems to describe is terrible misfortune (sod's law?) and then says 'isn't it ironic?' in a sardonic tone of voice.

Her only defence is that she is playing with us!!

Kilgore_Trout

ive always liked her... nothing "brilliant" per se... but definitely some fun tunes... i like "you oughta know"... and obviously flea and navarro did too

seems like a nice woman in interviews and stuff too

tremors

HeartShapedBox wrote:

It's what I do, what can I say tremors...

we're still friends right? I knew this was a bad idea!!

PearlOfAGirl

tremors wrote:

HeartShapedBox wrote:

It's what I do, what can I say tremors...

we're still friends right? I knew this was a bad idea!!

yes, of course we are...

Claireack

I really like the song, haven't listened to it for a while, maybe I should :think:

tremors

Yes, maybe you can shed some light on this situation Claire. I think it will help me not get so shouted at when I'm just being sarcastic

thx.

ps - this is definitely the best smilie:

:wave:

mookeywrench

Maybe the big picture irony was that she titled a song full of un-ironic puns, 'Ironic'.....don't ya think?

JordyWordy

Call me a Canadian lesbo, but I think it's a great album.

tremors

mookeywrench wrote:

Maybe the big picture irony was that she titled a song full of un-ironic puns, 'Ironic'.....don't ya think?

Yes if I'm being charitable I would say she has deftly crafted a satire about the barriers to our own shared misunderstandings of language.

However, more realistically I just think she is fucking confused!