But see here's the point - this entire post has so many assumptions in it. Firstly, you're taking things out of sequence in order to mold "how things went". Yes 9-11 was used as a crutch to invade Afghanistan, Iraq and do plenty of other things in this country and abroad, but that doesn't mean it was planned as such. It merely means the opportunity and reasons presented themselves, so they were acted upon. Not the same thing at all as you describe them. Secondly, simply because we can't fathom that such a high-up official was either out of the loop, uninformed or perhaps for the public's welfare, the level of knowledge is not commonly known, doesn't automatically mean it's bogus. It can simply mean we, as citizens have presumptions of how things are compared to the actual practice or reality of them. I think everyone just has these preconceived notions, but it doesn't typically match up to actual reality and that big void is where things like conspiracy theories and similar arise from.
while i know there are certainly people like you describe that doesn't account for everyone who questions the events. i don't claim to know what happened, in fact i can't even decide between a few scenarios but i do know what they say doesn't add up.
as to the government is inept...yeah, when it comes to the people, that's the point, it's not like every branch of government would have to be involved in this, i really think they could get away with it with even less than 2 dozen people. these are the same people who sent thousands of our kids to war without proper protection saying "you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had." meanwhile they are giving no bid contracts to campaign investors and cheney's former company and then giving them bonuses even after they are found to have committed a lot of fraud in billing us (on top of feeding our troops spoiled meat, dirty water....) also, as far as death tolls go multiple 9/11s happen in the US every day from lack of health care and smoking.
and we're supposed to believe over an hour after the 1st plane hit the towers rumsfeld still had no idea any of that happened? he was in the pentagon, the fucking sec of defense, over an hour after cheney (a former sec of defense) says it is obvious we are under attack and no one bothers to tell rummy? he doesn't find out until AFTER the pentagon is hit? really??? give me a fucking break! and cheney, again a former sec of defense, waits over an hour after saying it is obvious we are under attack to scramble fighters? a known hijacked plane is allowed to penetrate DC's no fly zone, again over an hour after the first plane hit, makes a u-turn, re-penetrates DCs no fly zone and then cheney finally decides to get some jets up in the air when andrew's air force base is 10miles away from DC?
and then we are told a few years later the guy who supposedly did this isn't important and our president doesn't even think about him??
ask anyone what weapons did the hijackers use and i bet they will say boxcutters and yet there is no actual basis for this claim but everyone accepts it as fact....but i'm sure they mean everything else they said
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
But see here's the point - this entire post has so many assumptions in it. Firstly, you're taking things out of sequence in order to mold "how things went". Yes 9-11 was used as a crutch to invade Afghanistan, Iraq and do plenty of other things in this country and abroad, but that doesn't mean it was planned as such. It merely means the opportunity and reasons presented themselves, so they were acted upon. Not the same thing at all as you describe them. Secondly, simply because we can't fathom that such a high-up official was either out of the loop, uninformed or perhaps for the public's welfare, the level of knowledge is not commonly known, doesn't automatically mean it's bogus. It can simply mean we, as citizens have presumptions of how things are compared to the actual practice or reality of them. I think everyone just has these preconceived notions, but it doesn't typically match up to actual reality and that big void is where things like conspiracy theories and similar arise from.
while i know there are certainly people like you describe that doesn't account for everyone who questions the events. i don't claim to know what happened, in fact i can't even decide between a few scenarios but i do know what they say doesn't add up.
as to the government is inept...yeah, when it comes to the people, that's the point, it's not like every branch of government would have to be involved in this, i really think they could get away with it with even less than 2 dozen people. these are the same people who sent thousands of our kids to war without proper protection saying "you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had." meanwhile they are giving no bid contracts to campaign investors and cheney's former company and then giving them bonuses even after they are found to have committed a lot of fraud in billing us (on top of feeding our troops spoiled meat, dirty water....) also, as far as death tolls go multiple 9/11s happen in the US every day from lack of health care and smoking.
and we're supposed to believe over an hour after the 1st plane hit the towers rumsfeld still had no idea any of that happened? he was in the pentagon, the fucking sec of defense, over an hour after cheney (a former sec of defense) says it is obvious we are under attack and no one bothers to tell rummy? he doesn't find out until AFTER the pentagon is hit? really??? give me a fucking break! and cheney, again a former sec of defense, waits over an hour after saying it is obvious we are under attack to scramble fighters? a known hijacked plane is allowed to penetrate DC's no fly zone, again over an hour after the first plane hit, makes a u-turn, re-penetrates DCs no fly zone and then cheney finally decides to get some jets up in the air when andrew's air force base is 10miles away from DC?
and then we are told a few years later the guy who supposedly did this isn't important and our president doesn't even think about him??
ask anyone what weapons did the hijackers use and i bet they will say boxcutters and yet there is no actual basis for this claim but everyone accepts it as fact....but i'm sure they mean everything else they said
ummmmm......where did i mention iraq or afghanistan?? :? :?
and yer right, i guess it's just a silly assumption to think if the president was told we are under attack and the vp said it was obvious we were under attack and 2 planes have since hit the world trade center towers word might have somehow have gotten to the secretary of defense. but what do i know? i guess keeping the sec of defense 'in the loop' during our country being attacked wouldn't be that high up on most people's list. not just someone in the administration but maybe someone in the pentagon might have passed the word along to his office which i guess is in complete isolation from the outside world that they didn't even know anything was going on....
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Was just making the point that what seems to be obvious to some is far from practical for others. We're talking about a president who continued reading to children for some time after finding out the nation was under attack. That says lots bout the mindset of that group at work.
ummmmm......where did i mention iraq or afghanistan?? :? :?
and yer right, i guess it's just a silly assumption to think if the president was told we are under attack and the vp said it was obvious we were under attack and 2 planes have since hit the world trade center towers word might have somehow have gotten to the secretary of defense. but what do i know? i guess keeping the sec of defense 'in the loop' during our country being attacked wouldn't be that high up on most people's list. not just someone in the administration but maybe someone in the pentagon might have passed the word along to his office which i guess is in complete isolation from the outside world that they didn't even know anything was going on....
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Was just making the point that what seems to be obvious to some is far from practical for others. We're talking about a president who continued reading to children for some time after finding out the nation was under attack. That says lots bout the mindset of that group at work.
ummmmm......where did i mention iraq or afghanistan?? :? :?
and yer right, i guess it's just a silly assumption to think if the president was told we are under attack and the vp said it was obvious we were under attack and 2 planes have since hit the world trade center towers word might have somehow have gotten to the secretary of defense. but what do i know? i guess keeping the sec of defense 'in the loop' during our country being attacked wouldn't be that high up on most people's list. not just someone in the administration but maybe someone in the pentagon might have passed the word along to his office which i guess is in complete isolation from the outside world that they didn't even know anything was going on....
i am in the camp that thinks bush may be a dick but he was still a puppet. i think he was used to having these titles and such in business without ever really having to do much in life, he was there with a golden parachute because of his last dad and grandfather.
he even admitted in his first term that he didn't bother to read or look into things, he just relied on his advisors and those around him to fill him in with what he needed to know. when he was told we were under attack i really think he had no clue about anything and was scared shitless not knowing what he's supposed to do. but luckily for him he's got all these other people around him like his vp was a former sec of defense during the 1st gulf war and our invasion of panama among other actions.
bush was constantly out of the loop. even the sec of treasury complained how inattentive he was. he relied on other people with a set agenda to know what actions to take.
and i need to amend my earlier statement, rumsfeld was notified we were under attack 12min before the pentagon was hit....so 40 min after we were under attack they notified the sec of defense.
Post edited by Pepe Silvia on
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I haven't read that site yet (I'll flip through it later) but I just find it hard to believe that a government that screws up so many things on a daily basis can be so efficient in executing a plan like that and keep it a secret before, during and 9 years after.
what about all the black ops and other secrets kept throughout the years? how'd they manage that? it's not like every person in government would have been involved, it really wouldn't even take that many, just some in the right places
I don't doubt for a sec that there's clandestine operations. But 9/11 was an order of magnitude greater than 4 guys sneaking in and knocking off a diplomat in Czechoslovakia. And really I'm not saying that they couldn't pull it off but there's no way that the hundreds it would take to execute it would be quiet about it for 9 years.
Plus I'm not trying to argue with anyone just throwing in the ol' 2 cents.
"They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center."
Rumsfeld: I had said at an 8:00 o'clock breakfast that sometime in the next two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve months there would be an event that would occur in the world that would be sufficiently shocking that it would remind people again how important it is to have a strong healthy defense department that contributes to -- That underpins peace and stability in our world. And that is what underpins peace and stability.
a guy says a missile then catches himself and says airplane, could be an honest slip...but around 1:17 rumsfeld claims terrorists shot down the plane in pennsylvania
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I haven't read that site yet (I'll flip through it later) but I just find it hard to believe that a government that screws up so many things on a daily basis can be so efficient in executing a plan like that and keep it a secret before, during and 9 years after.
what about all the black ops and other secrets kept throughout the years? how'd they manage that? it's not like every person in government would have been involved, it really wouldn't even take that many, just some in the right places
It is something quite different to hide arms deals with militias, and secretly supporting some destabilizing forces in countries America doesn't like (this they do ALL the time), and executing 9-11 squarely onto a prominent American target, killing thousands of Americans. The first can be justified ideologically and as national security/interests of America to encourage the silence needed. The second, not so much.
The unlikeliness is too great. The details that arguably doesn't quite fit may be because it's hard to pin down every detail in such a massive investigation of an event, or even that the government is hiding some stuff to cloak their own incompetence in preventing such an attack. The knowledge that they really can't prevent stuff like this 100% is terrifying to many people, as the public reactions to 9-11 etc has clearly shown.
Inside job - highly unlikely. If they wanted war support or whatever, they could have gotten that a lot cheaper than blowing up WTC.
Incompetence/inability to prevent - to some degree most likely. Communication failure between public agencies may have been downplayed to keep the public's confidence at a reasonable level.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I came across this website with a lot of interesting blurbs regarding 9/11 made by knowledgable and credible people. It has really made me think seriously about what I believe. For a long time I thought maybe it was possible that certain individuals within our Government knew about an impending attack and allowed it to happen, but I didn't believe it was an "inside job". Now, I question that assumption. I wonder if our leaders were not actually involved to a much greater extent.
IF our leaders were able to pull off the most elaborate inside job in the history of mankind, how is it that these same super-geniuses were unable to hide some chemical weapons, uranium, or W.M.D.'s in Iraq so that the invasion could have been justified to the world???
Inside job - highly unlikely. If they wanted war support or whatever, they could have gotten that a lot cheaper than blowing up WTC.
Peace
Dan
I don't think it has anything to do with cheap. In fact, a lot of people made billions of dollars off the WTC disaster. Put-option trading on Airline stocks was unprecedented in the week prior to the attacks, something like 100 times higher than normal, which is itself evidence to suggest somebody knew what was going to happen. And do you know how much money Dick Cheney probably got from Halliburton after they were awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?
Inside job - highly unlikely. If they wanted war support or whatever, they could have gotten that a lot cheaper than blowing up WTC.
Peace
Dan
I don't think it has anything to do with cheap. In fact, a lot of people made billions of dollars off the WTC disaster. Put-option trading on Airline stocks was unprecedented in the week prior to the attacks, something like 100 times higher than normal, which is itself evidence to suggest somebody knew what was going to happen. And do you know how much money Dick Cheney probably got from Halliburton after they were awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?
I don't think it has anything to do with cheap. In fact, a lot of people made billions of dollars off the WTC disaster. Put-option trading on Airline stocks was unprecedented in the week prior to the attacks, something like 100 times higher than normal, which is itself evidence to suggest somebody knew what was going to happen. And do you know how much money Dick Cheney probably got from Halliburton after they were awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't think it has anything to do with cheap. In fact, a lot of people made billions of dollars off the WTC disaster. Put-option trading on Airline stocks was unprecedented in the week prior to the attacks, something like 100 times higher than normal, which is itself evidence to suggest somebody knew what was going to happen. And do you know how much money Dick Cheney probably got from Halliburton after they were awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?
People making money off the situation that occurs (and the smart rich people always make money no matter what happens hedging their funds) is hardly evidence of anything. In Dick Cheney's case it's almost certainly some sort of corruption. But that's afterwards. As for a 100x normal anomaly in airline stocks, I'd need to see the proof of that, and that it really is an anomaly and not something that happens every once in a while. Stock movements are in any case poor evidence in themselves. Someone will always make money of whatever situation you can think of. That does not at all imply they made it happen just because it benefited them.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I don't think it has anything to do with cheap. In fact, a lot of people made billions of dollars off the WTC disaster. Put-option trading on Airline stocks was unprecedented in the week prior to the attacks, something like 100 times higher than normal, which is itself evidence to suggest somebody knew what was going to happen. And do you know how much money Dick Cheney probably got from Halliburton after they were awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?
People making money off the situation that occurs (and the smart rich people always make money no matter what happens hedging their funds) is hardly evidence of anything. In Dick Cheney's case it's almost certainly some sort of corruption. But that's afterwards. As for a 100x normal anomaly in airline stocks, I'd need to see the proof of that, and that it really is an anomaly and not something that happens every once in a while. Stock movements are in any case poor evidence in themselves. Someone will always make money of whatever situation you can think of. That does not at all imply they made it happen just because it benefited them.
Peace
Dan
How far have you managed to stick your head in the sand and believe what the powers that be tell you? We are all slaves to the power kabals and until we all realize this we are all fucked.
There are so many holes in the official story I am amazed how many people just believe it and shut up... Shut Up Slave! Go back to your main stream media and reality TV. Move along, nothing to see here...
Always a great response... everyone's a sheep, no real proof because the "hidden powers to be" won't let you except for nicely pieced together excerpts from random places which mold an answer you deem logical even though in reality it's hearsay and half-truthes woven together. Keep up the good work! :roll:
How far have you managed to stick your head in the sand and believe what the powers that be tell you? We are all slaves to the power kabals and until we all realize this we are all fucked.
There are so many holes in the official story I am amazed how many people just believe it and shut up... Shut Up Slave! Go back to your main stream media and reality TV. Move along, nothing to see here...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Always a great response... everyone's a sheep, no real proof because the "hidden powers to be" won't let you except for nicely pieced together excerpts from random places which mold an answer you deem logical even though in reality it's hearsay and half-truthes woven together. Keep up the good work! :roll:
How far have you managed to stick your head in the sand and believe what the powers that be tell you? We are all slaves to the power kabals and until we all realize this we are all fucked.
There are so many holes in the official story I am amazed how many people just believe it and shut up... Shut Up Slave! Go back to your main stream media and reality TV. Move along, nothing to see here...
Proof is everywhere buddy, wake up. You probably think there isn't any market manipulation going on either because CNBC tells you to buy stocks. Don't question anything and accept everything. :roll:
Proof is everywhere buddy, wake up. You probably think there isn't any market manipulation going on either because CNBC tells you to buy stocks. Don't question anything and accept everything. :roll:
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Proof is everywhere buddy, wake up. You probably think there isn't any market manipulation going on either because CNBC tells you to buy stocks. Don't question anything and accept everything. :roll:
Other than people like you are part of the problem, nope.
Other than people like you are part of the problem, nope.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
This is a funny site. From the "manifesto" portion of the site. I think it's appropriate the "founder" is named tyler durden, just like the character, fictitious and suits the site. Things must be fun on your side though, the spiderweb of connection and intrigue just as if it were made up or something...right?
our mission:
* to widen the scope of financial, economic and political information available to the professional investing public.
* to skeptically examine and, where necessary, attack the flaccid institution that financial journalism has become.
* to liberate oppressed knowledge.
* to provide analysis uninhibited by political constraint.
* to facilitate information's unending quest for freedom. our method: pseudonymous speech...
anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. it thus exemplifies the purpose behind the bill of rights, and of the first amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation-- and their ideas from suppression-- at the hand of an intolerant society.
...responsibly used.
the right to remain anonymous may be abused when it shields fraudulent conduct. but political speech by its nature will sometimes have unpalatable consequences, and, in general, our society accords greater weight to the value of free speech than to the dangers of its misuse.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't think it has anything to do with cheap. In fact, a lot of people made billions of dollars off the WTC disaster. Put-option trading on Airline stocks was unprecedented in the week prior to the attacks, something like 100 times higher than normal, which is itself evidence to suggest somebody knew what was going to happen. And do you know how much money Dick Cheney probably got from Halliburton after they were awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?
People making money off the situation that occurs (and the smart rich people always make money no matter what happens hedging their funds) is hardly evidence of anything. In Dick Cheney's case it's almost certainly some sort of corruption. But that's afterwards. As for a 100x normal anomaly in airline stocks, I'd need to see the proof of that, and that it really is an anomaly and not something that happens every once in a while. Stock movements are in any case poor evidence in themselves. Someone will always make money of whatever situation you can think of. That does not at all imply they made it happen just because it benefited them.
Peace
Dan
I read that Cheney's Halliburton stocks went from around $400,000 to $24 million after the war. I know that is not incriminating, but my point is, you have to look at who benefited and who did not from 9/11. When you investigate a crime you always look for a motive. Bin Laden and his people didn't get shit for what happened. I guarantee they are a lot worse off than they were before. Cheney and a lot of his friends however, are in a much better position. Let us not forget that Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Condoleeza Rice were all part of the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), which literally described its goal as U.S. dominance of the world. You can read their report here http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
As far as the insider trading, that was actually reported by mainstream news media, including CNN, shortly after the attacks. It's been studied and wrote about by economists and was mentioned (though not explained) by the 9/11 Commission Report. Here is one article that discusses it http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2001-09-26-suspicious-trading.htm
I've read the the PNAC report before (all the way through) have you? Because if you have, you'd probably see lots of things which get taken out of context or are looked back upon in a different light because you're viewing a policy paper written in a pre-9-11 world, and looking at it in a post 9-11 world (and all that's occurred since). If you remember specifically, GW Bush campaigned and had no intention of getting our nation in foreign entanglements - he campaigned that America wasn't in the business of nation building. And also keep in mind during this time frame (during the Clinton years), the US was in Iraq's business due to the food for oil program, nuclear inspectors as well as the regular no fly-zone areas and occasion bombings we would do. At this time, we considered Iraq and Saddam to be a major threat in the Middle East. Also, the people you mention below are and have always been hawkish republicans, but that doesn't mean that somehow equates to allowing or participating in such events like 9-11. Lastly, if you read the PNAC report, the first thing mentioned in detail is building up homeland security... and just so you're clear, there's plenty in that report and from that group that has never, ever come to fruition, so to simply point out a few comments in a foreign policy piece beforehand and then correlate it to some sign of guilt after the fact is misplaced.
Also, in terms of Cheney and Halliburton, to assume these people provoked or were involved in attack which then led to policy change and then years later, future invasion of Iraq so stocks could go up - well that's a leap and stretch beyond legitimacy.
I read that Cheney's Halliburton stocks went from around $400,000 to $24 million after the war. I know that is not incriminating, but my point is, you have to look at who benefited and who did not from 9/11. When you investigate a crime you always look for a motive. Bin Laden and his people didn't get shit for what happened. I guarantee they are a lot worse off than they were before. Cheney and a lot of his friends however, are in a much better position. Let us not forget that Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Condoleeza Rice were all part of the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), which literally described its goal as U.S. dominance of the world. You can read their report here http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
As far as the insider trading, that was actually reported by mainstream news media, including CNN, shortly after the attacks. It's been studied and wrote about by economists and was mentioned (though not explained) by the 9/11 Commission Report. Here is one article that discusses it http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2001-09-26-suspicious-trading.htm
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
This is a funny site. From the "manifesto" portion of the site. I think it's appropriate the "founder" is named tyler durden, just like the character, fictitious and suits the site. Things must be fun on your side though, the spiderweb of connection and intrigue just as if it were made up or something...right?
our mission:
* to widen the scope of financial, economic and political information available to the professional investing public.
* to skeptically examine and, where necessary, attack the flaccid institution that financial journalism has become.
* to liberate oppressed knowledge.
* to provide analysis uninhibited by political constraint.
* to facilitate information's unending quest for freedom. our method: pseudonymous speech...
anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. it thus exemplifies the purpose behind the bill of rights, and of the first amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation-- and their ideas from suppression-- at the hand of an intolerant society.
...responsibly used.
the right to remain anonymous may be abused when it shields fraudulent conduct. but political speech by its nature will sometimes have unpalatable consequences, and, in general, our society accords greater weight to the value of free speech than to the dangers of its misuse.
Again, it's more convenient to continue living your life like you have some sort of control over it. These people that run and post on zero hedge work in the banking industry, you expect them to list their names and places of work while the expose the fraud know as the finance world? Are you really that naive? Perhaps or perhaps you are just content living your life as a slave to the system. Enjoy it while you can, I wonder what you'll be saying when people start rioting here like they are in Greece and Spain. Wake the fuck up! Stop watching the idiot box, there is no 'news' there, only propaganda which you clearly are on a daily dose of.
bTW if you stopped and thought about what happened at the end of Fight Club and maybe read some of the content (though again it's probably way over your head) you might have some sort of idea of where the site is coming from. The collapse is coming and they are just reporting the day to day on it. But continue on slave, nothing to see here. You are a lost cause.
Again, it's more convenient to continue living your life like you have some sort of control over it. These people that run and post on zero hedge work in the banking industry, you expect them to list their names and places of work while the expose the fraud know as the finance world? Are you really that naive? Perhaps or perhaps you are just content living your life as a slave to the system. Enjoy it while you can, I wonder what you'll be saying when people start rioting here like they are in Greece and Spain. Wake the fuck up! Stop watching the idiot box, there is no 'news' there, only propaganda which you clearly are on a daily dose of.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Nope it's slave buddy, you're a slave to the propaganda machine. Slave to the idea governments and banks are to be trusted. Slave to the idea everything is fine and we the people are in control of our lives.
And to the people who don't have their head in the sand, here is a level headed professor talking about 9/11 and the Afgan war. It's a great listen.
Nope it's slave buddy, you're a slave to the propaganda machine. Slave to the idea governments and banks are to be trusted. Slave to the idea everything is fine and we the people are in control of our lives.
And to the people who don't have their head in the sand, here is a level headed professor talking about 9/11 and the Afgan war. It's a great listen.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Nope it's slave buddy, you're a slave to the propaganda machine. Slave to the idea governments and banks are to be trusted. Slave to the idea everything is fine and we the people are in control of our lives.
And to the people who don't have their head in the sand, here is a level headed professor talking about 9/11 and the Afgan war. It's a great listen.
Have you even looked at the questions raised or are you too scared to realize everything that has been told to you is a lie? Really what is it? We have been in two of the longest wars in our history based on one event in which the official story has an amazing amount of holes in them. I just don't get this willful ignorance.
Comments
How about all that Roswell shit??
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
ummmmm......where did i mention iraq or afghanistan?? :? :?
and yer right, i guess it's just a silly assumption to think if the president was told we are under attack and the vp said it was obvious we were under attack and 2 planes have since hit the world trade center towers word might have somehow have gotten to the secretary of defense. but what do i know? i guess keeping the sec of defense 'in the loop' during our country being attacked wouldn't be that high up on most people's list. not just someone in the administration but maybe someone in the pentagon might have passed the word along to his office which i guess is in complete isolation from the outside world that they didn't even know anything was going on....
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
i am in the camp that thinks bush may be a dick but he was still a puppet. i think he was used to having these titles and such in business without ever really having to do much in life, he was there with a golden parachute because of his last dad and grandfather.
he even admitted in his first term that he didn't bother to read or look into things, he just relied on his advisors and those around him to fill him in with what he needed to know. when he was told we were under attack i really think he had no clue about anything and was scared shitless not knowing what he's supposed to do. but luckily for him he's got all these other people around him like his vp was a former sec of defense during the 1st gulf war and our invasion of panama among other actions.
bush was constantly out of the loop. even the sec of treasury complained how inattentive he was. he relied on other people with a set agenda to know what actions to take.
and i need to amend my earlier statement, rumsfeld was notified we were under attack 12min before the pentagon was hit....so 40 min after we were under attack they notified the sec of defense.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
what do you make of these quotes from rumsfeld?
http://www.defense.gov/Transcripts/Tran ... iptID=3845
"They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time, any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center."
http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/tran ... iptid=2603
Rumsfeld: I had said at an 8:00 o'clock breakfast that sometime in the next two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve months there would be an event that would occur in the world that would be sufficiently shocking that it would remind people again how important it is to have a strong healthy defense department that contributes to -- That underpins peace and stability in our world. And that is what underpins peace and stability.
or this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3LJXoXpAHE
a guy says a missile then catches himself and says airplane, could be an honest slip...but around 1:17 rumsfeld claims terrorists shot down the plane in pennsylvania
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
The unlikeliness is too great. The details that arguably doesn't quite fit may be because it's hard to pin down every detail in such a massive investigation of an event, or even that the government is hiding some stuff to cloak their own incompetence in preventing such an attack. The knowledge that they really can't prevent stuff like this 100% is terrifying to many people, as the public reactions to 9-11 etc has clearly shown.
Inside job - highly unlikely. If they wanted war support or whatever, they could have gotten that a lot cheaper than blowing up WTC.
Incompetence/inability to prevent - to some degree most likely. Communication failure between public agencies may have been downplayed to keep the public's confidence at a reasonable level.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
:roll:
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
I don't think it has anything to do with cheap. In fact, a lot of people made billions of dollars off the WTC disaster. Put-option trading on Airline stocks was unprecedented in the week prior to the attacks, something like 100 times higher than normal, which is itself evidence to suggest somebody knew what was going to happen. And do you know how much money Dick Cheney probably got from Halliburton after they were awarded no-bid contracts in Iraq?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
People making money off the situation that occurs (and the smart rich people always make money no matter what happens hedging their funds) is hardly evidence of anything. In Dick Cheney's case it's almost certainly some sort of corruption. But that's afterwards. As for a 100x normal anomaly in airline stocks, I'd need to see the proof of that, and that it really is an anomaly and not something that happens every once in a while. Stock movements are in any case poor evidence in themselves. Someone will always make money of whatever situation you can think of. That does not at all imply they made it happen just because it benefited them.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
How far have you managed to stick your head in the sand and believe what the powers that be tell you? We are all slaves to the power kabals and until we all realize this we are all fucked.
Here is your evidence on the put options, oh wait, sorry they destroyed them, how convenient.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sec-go ... ut-options
There are so many holes in the official story I am amazed how many people just believe it and shut up... Shut Up Slave! Go back to your main stream media and reality TV. Move along, nothing to see here...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Proof is everywhere buddy, wake up. You probably think there isn't any market manipulation going on either because CNBC tells you to buy stocks. Don't question anything and accept everything. :roll:
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Other than people like you are part of the problem, nope.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Plenty going on over here, but it may be a bit over your head if you continue to look at the world through your present attitude.
www.zerohedge.com
our mission:
* to widen the scope of financial, economic and political information available to the professional investing public.
* to skeptically examine and, where necessary, attack the flaccid institution that financial journalism has become.
* to liberate oppressed knowledge.
* to provide analysis uninhibited by political constraint.
* to facilitate information's unending quest for freedom.
our method: pseudonymous speech...
anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. it thus exemplifies the purpose behind the bill of rights, and of the first amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation-- and their ideas from suppression-- at the hand of an intolerant society.
...responsibly used.
the right to remain anonymous may be abused when it shields fraudulent conduct. but political speech by its nature will sometimes have unpalatable consequences, and, in general, our society accords greater weight to the value of free speech than to the dangers of its misuse.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I read that Cheney's Halliburton stocks went from around $400,000 to $24 million after the war. I know that is not incriminating, but my point is, you have to look at who benefited and who did not from 9/11. When you investigate a crime you always look for a motive. Bin Laden and his people didn't get shit for what happened. I guarantee they are a lot worse off than they were before. Cheney and a lot of his friends however, are in a much better position. Let us not forget that Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Condoleeza Rice were all part of the Project for a New American Century (PNAC), which literally described its goal as U.S. dominance of the world. You can read their report here http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
As far as the insider trading, that was actually reported by mainstream news media, including CNN, shortly after the attacks. It's been studied and wrote about by economists and was mentioned (though not explained) by the 9/11 Commission Report. Here is one article that discusses it http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2001-09-26-suspicious-trading.htm
Also, in terms of Cheney and Halliburton, to assume these people provoked or were involved in attack which then led to policy change and then years later, future invasion of Iraq so stocks could go up - well that's a leap and stretch beyond legitimacy.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Again, it's more convenient to continue living your life like you have some sort of control over it. These people that run and post on zero hedge work in the banking industry, you expect them to list their names and places of work while the expose the fraud know as the finance world? Are you really that naive? Perhaps or perhaps you are just content living your life as a slave to the system. Enjoy it while you can, I wonder what you'll be saying when people start rioting here like they are in Greece and Spain. Wake the fuck up! Stop watching the idiot box, there is no 'news' there, only propaganda which you clearly are on a daily dose of.
bTW if you stopped and thought about what happened at the end of Fight Club and maybe read some of the content (though again it's probably way over your head) you might have some sort of idea of where the site is coming from. The collapse is coming and they are just reporting the day to day on it. But continue on slave, nothing to see here. You are a lost cause.
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/65284,new ... ed-himself
Btw, what's with all the "slave" talk... you got your insults all mixed up. It's sheep, not slave.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
And to the people who don't have their head in the sand, here is a level headed professor talking about 9/11 and the Afgan war. It's a great listen.
http://newworldnotes.blogspot.com/2010/ ... 1-and.html
So were you a fan of this professor before he wrote his little book? And what a shocker, he's been on Alex Jones! Small world eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ray_Griffin
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Have you even looked at the questions raised or are you too scared to realize everything that has been told to you is a lie? Really what is it? We have been in two of the longest wars in our history based on one event in which the official story has an amazing amount of holes in them. I just don't get this willful ignorance.