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do humans have value?

dpmaydpmay Posts: 643
edited June 2010 in A Moving Train
take that however you want to. i have been having some conversations with people lately, and it seems like a lot of philosophical issues really relate back to these questions ... do we value humanity? if so, how and why? to what degree? is that value in any sense absolute, or is it a relative thing? if humans truly have no exceptionally meaningful value, why not?

i am curious to learn about the opinions of people around here on this topic...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    depends on who you talk to ... i value humanity but humanity as it is today is not worth valuing ...
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    as a whole or individually?
    On average, I think we value individual humans MUCH more than humanity as a whole. And we value humans more that we can relate to (whether it's nationality, race, whatever).
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,158
    I think everyone except sociopaths value human life at least on some level. Some governments and groups can become pragmatic though when making decisions. But in the end, they are trying protect what they value about human life ... sometimes it is just sick and twisted from an outside perspective.

    Now, if you really want to know the value of a human life (from a monitory value), just study Insurance trends.
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  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    dpmay wrote:
    take that however you want to. i have been having some conversations with people lately, and it seems like a lot of philosophical issues really relate back to these questions ... do we value humanity? if so, how and why? to what degree? is that value in any sense absolute, or is it a relative thing? if humans truly have no exceptionally meaningful value, why not?

    i am curious to learn about the opinions of people around here on this topic...
    Value: that quality of a thing according to which it is thought of as being more or less desirable, useful, estimable, important, etc.; worth or the degree of worth

    Value: that which is desirable or worthy of esteem for its own sake; thing or quality having intrinsic worth

    Value: the social principles, goals, or standards held or accepted by an individual, class, society, etc.

    I think if you love just one other human being then you must say humans have value.
    You are speaking of lumping all individuals together, generalizing as a whole, but when you are giving something value can you do this? Personally I don't like to do it period.
    I believe humans have great value because we love. We are individuals, we have souls and have been given the gift of life to learn love and compassion for others. Time here to try to understand each other and to learn to let go of our fears.
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    We're just here on this planet.. we make up rules, laws, codes and morals to dictate and they're usually all very nice ideas, but in the end of the day, we're not here for any purpose. And the more you learn, experience and see in life and in the world, it reinforces it. People just do as they please because it suits their wants and needs, not for some greater good. There are some examples where people do work for the greater good, but as a whole and generally speaking they are not to majority by any means of the imagination.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism
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    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    pandora wrote:

    I believe humans have great value because we love. We are individuals, we have souls and have been given the gift of life to learn love and compassion for others. Time here to try to understand each other and to learn to let go of our fears.

    I love this. The biggest cynic has to admit that we are one of the few species that have emotions, and the ability to love. That, just to begin with, is value alone.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I love this. The biggest cynic has to admit that we are one of the few species that have emotions, and the ability to love. That, just to begin with, is value alone.

    uhhh ... i see love in many species ... dogs, cats, birds, elephants, buffalos, etc ... the thing humans love most is money ...
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I love this. The biggest cynic has to admit that we are one of the few species that have emotions, and the ability to love. That, just to begin with, is value alone.

    uhhh ... i see love in many species ... dogs, cats, birds, elephants, buffalos, etc ... the thing humans love most is money ...
    That's quite the generalization...and I disagree.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    I love this. The biggest cynic has to admit that we are one of the few species that have emotions, and the ability to love. That, just to begin with, is value alone.

    uhhh ... i see love in many species ... dogs, cats, birds, elephants, buffalos, etc ... the thing humans love most is money ...
    not me in the least, trouble with generalizing, so many exceptions to the rule.
    As many individuals, there are exceptions
    but I think my doggies love me :)
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jeanwah wrote:
    That's quite the generalization...and I disagree.

    maybe ... but if we look at humanity's contribution to this planet - it is mostly self-fullfilling and it's probably no more of a generalization than saying we are one of a few species that are capable of love ...
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    That's quite the generalization...and I disagree.

    maybe ... but if we look at humanity's contribution to this planet - it is mostly self-fullfilling and it's probably no more of a generalization than saying we are one of a few species that are capable of love ...
    How about what I originally wrote, emotions? Yes, some species have few emotions...

    I've been thinking...how about the value of our thumbs? They're definitely a Value to our existence. And communication in combination with emotions (and our thumbs)? I think we're pretty much set far apart than any species with that also.

    I refuse to see that our existence is completely and only self-serving. We are meant to be social and compassionate beings, not to be alone and declare that money trumps all. That goes against our very nature, even though that state of mind is taking over the world. But that state of mind is what may just kill our existence. Love won't, it brings us together.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    I think war, the death penalty, etc. show us that the value we place on human life is relative.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jeanwah wrote:
    How about what I originally wrote, emotions? Yes, some species have few emotions...

    I've been thinking...how about the value of our thumbs? They're definitely a Value to our existence. And communication in combination with emotions (and our thumbs)? I think we're pretty much set far apart than any species with that also.

    I refuse to see that our existence is completely and only self-serving. We are meant to be social and compassionate beings, not to be alone and declare that money trumps all. That goes against our very nature, even though that state of mind is taking over the world. But that state of mind is what may just kill our existence. Love won't, it brings us together.

    i see emotions in many species as well ...

    thumbs are definitely great ... but cuttlefish can change their colour to match their environment ... that is frickin' awesome ... hahaha ... and birds can fly! ...

    i agree with your sentiment however, my point is simply that when we look at humanity's contribution to the planet - it is hard to say we've contributed anything positive ... if we took all other living things ... about the only thing that seems to have thrived in conjunction with humans are cancer cells ... although the majority of the world is made of kind, caring and compassionate people - we are complicit in the devastation we have inflicted on this planet ...
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    Jeanwah wrote:

    I refuse to see that our existence is completely and only self-serving. We are meant to be social and compassionate beings, not to be alone and declare that money trumps all. That goes against our very nature, even though that state of mind is taking over the world. But that state of mind is what may just kill our existence. Love won't, it brings us together.
    :thumbup: :clap:
    and we don't have to let that state of mind take over the world
    each person each day can try to think of others, even in small ways,
    love flourishes on little.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    edited June 2010
    scb wrote:
    I think war, the death penalty, etc. show us that the value we place on human life is relative.


    All value is relative.

    How much are diamonds worth to you on a island by yourself?

    If your house is on fire and you can only save 1 person...your significant other/spouse or your kid...who do you save? Now, you are in a building on fire and can save only 1 person, your spouse or a stranger?

    Everything has a relative value.
    Post edited by cincybearcat on
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  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    value good energy.
    immediately disregard bullshit.
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    no more forever."
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  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    scb wrote:
    I think war, the death penalty, etc. show us that the value we place on human life is relative.
    some people need to be silenced forever.
    we do not value evil.
    it is not acceptable.
    therefore, the sleeping is eternal.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • BlockheadBlockhead Posts: 1,538
    polaris_x wrote:
    i see emotions in many species as well ...

    thumbs are definitely great ... but cuttlefish can change their colour to match their environment ... that is frickin' awesome ... hahaha ... and birds can fly! ...

    i agree with your sentiment however, my point is simply that when we look at humanity's contribution to the planet - it is hard to say we've contributed anything positive ... if we took all other living things ... about the only thing that seems to have thrived in conjunction with humans are cancer cells ... although the majority of the world is made of kind, caring and compassionate people - we are complicit in the devastation we have inflicted on this planet ...
    You do realize that Humans are apart of this planet right? what we are doing right now is part of Nature... We are just the only species that are able to understand we have an effect on the plant. This is all apart of evolution.
  • dpmaydpmay Posts: 643
    good responses, thank you.

    i was i guess thinking about valuing individual humans for whatever reason over the more absract idea of "humanity."

    but now that i think about it more closely, i am finding it more difficult to seperate the two. can we really only value individual humans, but not some concept of humanity as a whole? really, it seems like each individual is in some small way just a little microcosm of the grand thing called "humanity" anyway...
  • dpmaydpmay Posts: 643
    scb wrote:
    I think war, the death penalty, etc. show us that the value we place on human life is relative.

    i tend to agree with this. i find it depressing.
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    cincybearcat wrote:
    scb wrote:
    I think war, the death penalty, etc. show us that the value we place on human life is relative.


    All value is relative.

    How much are diamonds worth to you on a island by yourself?

    If your house is on fire and you can only save 1 person...your significant other/spouse or your kid...who do you save? Now, you are in a building on fire and can save only 1 person, your spouse or a stranger?

    Everything has a relative value.

    Yeah, I see your point. But I think there's a difference between not being able to save everyone and actively choosing to kill someone.
  • eyedclaareyedclaar Posts: 6,980
    Roughly $3.00 a pound. Still, it's cheaper than gasoline.
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  • ClaireackClaireack Posts: 13,561
    eyedclaar wrote:
    Roughly $3.00 a pound. Still, it's cheaper than gasoline.

    You can have me for £5, ok, ok 50p, can't say fairer than that.
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  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    cincybearcat wrote:
    If your house is on fire and you can only save 1 person...your significant other/spouse or your kid...who do you save? Now, you are in a building on fire and can save only 1 person, your spouse or a stranger?
    ...
    Is that stranger... an infant?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    chadwick wrote:
    scb wrote:
    I think war, the death penalty, etc. show us that the value we place on human life is relative.
    some people need to be silenced forever.
    we do not value evil.
    it is not acceptable.
    therefore, the sleeping is eternal.
    ...
    Like Cincy said, it is relative to your point of view and how you define, 'Evil'.
    Meaning, there may be someone who believes you to be evil... should your method apply in that case?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    dpmay wrote:
    take that however you want to. i have been having some conversations with people lately, and it seems like a lot of philosophical issues really relate back to these questions ... do we value humanity? if so, how and why? to what degree? is that value in any sense absolute, or is it a relative thing? if humans truly have no exceptionally meaningful value, why not?

    i am curious to learn about the opinions of people around here on this topic...
    ...
    This example is taken from fairly recent history:
    What is the value of a man who was a member of Germany's Nazi party and a commissioned officer in the SS? The program under his authority was to design build and deploy V-2 rockets. He used prisoners from concentration camps as slave labor... more people died building the V-2s, than the V-2 killed in attacks.
    What value does that man have?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    :crazy: this whole thing is just weird......

    value your self and you will understand the value of your fellow man.

    Godfather.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    polaris thats a old saying I just made up :lol:

    Godfather.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. wrote:
    :crazy: this whole thing is just weird......

    value your self and you will understand the value of your fellow man.

    Godfather.
    ...
    If it were this simple... we would not have any problems with people crossing the borders, looking for work. People would not be treating other people like vermin.
    It is complex and relative to the subject.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jeanwah wrote:
    How about what I originally wrote, emotions? Yes, some species have few emotions...

    I've been thinking...how about the value of our thumbs? They're definitely a Value to our existence. And communication in combination with emotions (and our thumbs)? I think we're pretty much set far apart than any species with that also.

    I refuse to see that our existence is completely and only self-serving. We are meant to be social and compassionate beings, not to be alone and declare that money trumps all. That goes against our very nature, even though that state of mind is taking over the world. But that state of mind is what may just kill our existence. Love won't, it brings us together.

    were not the only species with opposable thumbs. does our value decrease because of that??? is our value over inflated to begin with???? :think:
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