Outrage against BP is ridiculous.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

FiveB247x wrote:

Ibut if list in sequence all steps necessary in our system to make correction or adjustments for even the smallest thing, it's quite tedious.

I honestly wasn't being sarcastic with this question, nor was I challenging you. I really wanted some insight. I'm here to have a discussion and learn, not just argue (even if it seems that way sometimes).

breakmarysfall

I haven't followed this post, but I need an outlet now and the title of this post seems kind of appropriate.

I just learned that the amount of the outgoing oil is 8 Million litres a day. That means every 5 days the oil- amount of the Exxon Valdez accident spreads out the ocean.
Now we count already 6 to 7 weeks.... or are there 8 already?

Although I agree with the statement of this post (that we also need to accuse our way of living), I am furious about BP.
They just lie; they just act so bad that you need to be outraged.
How can they lie over 7 weeks about the oil amount going out... how do they dare!
Furthermore, finally we heard about the impact of all the chemicals spread out by BP. It is more dangerous as without because this chemical kills "Plancton", the main food of fish and wale!!!.
So it makes it all worth.
And what about the many huge oil clouds that are still down the ocean, 1000 meters deep? Nobody has experiences with that and BP is still saying those clouds don't exist.
wtf.

By now I am just aware that this is the worst environmental disaster ever happened.

Furthermore: the Western oil industry, especially BP focuses extremely on offshore drilling because all other oil resources they had are more or less empty. They do this craziness supported by the government to be energy- independent to the rich oil countries like Iran/ Iraq.
So by now BP is drilling already 3000 meters down the ocean...and offshore drilling makes 70 percent of all their gained oil.

I think we may be outraged against this company. We should be! We need to be...
and ps. I try an oil and plastic free living since quite a while ...and it is to make, nearly. But which difference does it make when such a company, such an industry rules the world???

thanks for the outlet here..
nicki

breakmarysfall

pearl jam radio: unthought known :P

and the math again: guess we have already 11 exxon valdes tragedies in the gulf of mexico. :oops:

so good song full of hope, so bad news full of sadness.
good night for now from europe. nicki

FiveB247x

I understand appreciate your honesty and discussion (something we don't get too much around here anymore).

Anyways, I guess you see my commentary as mere blaming or ranting towards society, yet I think our habits and actions (or lack there-of) are the cause of our problems. It's very easy point out the bad things in a problem or issue, but solution and remedy always comes from viewing it open, honestly, directly and at the heart of the matter. We can be sad that BP f'ed our environment up, but when you ask the why question, it all points back to ourselves, not really them.

And I prefer Jamieson, not Crown

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

I don't take offense at all. Honestly, except the point of "who is to blame" ultimately, I think we are on the same page. I agree that change is necessary; it has been necessary for eons. And you're right, it won't happen without people starting to make a change, instead of talking about it. That was my question to you. I am blaming BP but offering no solutions; you are blaming society but offer no solutions, so we're doing the same thing, that's just what I was trying to point out.

There are so many ills of the world, not just over-consumption, that disgust me about the human race. Believe me. Crown Royal helps.

FiveB247x

George says it much more succinctly. The entire video 7 or 8 piece show is great, but watch from 18:50 mark on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XUZVusIm8s&feature=PlayList&p=9F568BAD1499C499&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1

Hugh Freaking Dillon

well, we'll still have to disagree on the one point: I hold BP directly responsible for this specific disaster, not society. However, I do agree with you that society as a whole has a responsibility to change our ways in order to better serve the environment that we so calously mistreat.

FiveB247x wrote:

I understand appreciate your honesty and discussion (something we don't get too much around here anymore).

Anyways, I guess you see my commentary as mere blaming or ranting towards society, yet I think our habits and actions (or lack there-of) are the cause of our problems. It's very easy point out the bad things in a problem or issue, but solution and remedy always comes from viewing it open, honestly, directly and at the heart of the matter. We can be sad that BP f'ed our environment up, but when you ask the why question, it all points back to ourselves, not really them.

And I prefer Jamieson, not Crown

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

I don't take offense at all. Honestly, except the point of "who is to blame" ultimately, I think we are on the same page. I agree that change is necessary; it has been necessary for eons. And you're right, it won't happen without people starting to make a change, instead of talking about it. That was my question to you. I am blaming BP but offering no solutions; you are blaming society but offer no solutions, so we're doing the same thing, that's just what I was trying to point out.

There are so many ills of the world, not just over-consumption, that disgust me about the human race. Believe me. Crown Royal helps.

FiveB247x

It's not necessarily that I don't feel BP is responsible for the accident, I feel that we should expect it at some level. And not to repeat myself, but we get mad at the effect, yet ignore the cause. Anyways... was nice talking it out with you. Cheers.

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

well, we'll still have to disagree on the one point: I hold BP directly responsible for this specific disaster, not society. However, I do agree with you that society as a whole has a responsibility to change our ways in order to better serve the environment that we so calously mistreat.

JR8805

I don't think the outrage at BP is ridiculous. I find it stomach turning to see oil-slimed birds and dead sea turtles on my front page each morning. And the ones you don't see...they're what worry me the most. How many dead? It's a horrible disaster. That said, BP is probably no worse than any other oil company...and no better. I think this thing was just a matter of time in coming. It came to BP first...it could come to any of the big oil companies at any time...and I wonder if this doesn't give terrorists any more ideas than they already have. Could be awful unless everyone gets on board and puts in multiple safeguards. And the boycotting of BP sounds great...I liked it...don't go BP/Amaco...until it was publicized in the papers that my retirement fund depends (partly) on the health of BP. What an international web we weave when we participate in a global economy and in global investments. In the old days, it was easy to see who the bad guys were. They always wore the black hats. Now, the bad guys are you...but are you really a bad guy just for wanting a job and retirement? It's all very complicated.

lukin2006

2010 Watch It Go To Fire wrote:

Dude, first off, learn to write in a more coherent fashion. Half of what you wrote is unreadable. Second, there should be outrage, not only at people and there consumption of oil, but at BP and the other companies involved, the government agency that turned a blind eye and allowed this to happen, and the government itself for its inaction. BP, Haliburton and the other companies involved should pay for the clean up and containment, The US government needs to come up with a solution and fix this problem. People should consume less oil (I do my part by taking a regional rail to work everyday). Your arguments are weak and don't do anything constructive. Try reading a book on how to form a coherent argument you moron.

There is nothing wrong with what he/her said, he's just stating his/her opinion. As for finding a solution, that solution is in the relief well that is scheduled to be finished in August. In the future maybe your government should require relief wells be drilled and environmental assessments be done for every drilling projects.

vomikus39

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

2010 Watch It Go To Fire wrote:

Dude, first off, learn to write in a more coherent fashion. Half of what you wrote is unreadable. Second, there should be outrage, not only at people and there consumption of oil, but at BP and the other companies involved, the government agency that turned a blind eye and allowed this to happen, and the government itself for its inaction. BP, Haliburton and the other companies involved should pay for the clean up and containment, The US government needs to come up with a solution and fix this problem. People should consume less oil (I do my part by taking a regional rail to work everyday). Your arguments are weak and don't do anything constructive. Try reading a book on how to form a coherent argument you moron.

how constructive. by posting such nonsense you are making yourself look worse than any bad grammar or sentence structure possibly could.

And I actually found nothing unreadable about the OP. Maybe you need some glasses? :geek:

Pointless, but I must say I understood the OP. I didn't see many problems and I am a stickler for that kinda stuff. I know, "kinda", is not a word.

puremagic

FiveB247x wrote:

It's not necessarily that I don't feel BP is responsible for the accident, I feel that we should expect it at some level. And not to repeat myself, but we get mad at the effect, yet ignore the cause.

You repeatly blame the public – when it is not the responsibility of the public to oversee any company’s product from production-to-market-to-consumption; that responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the head of these companies.

The public had every right of EXPECTATION to believe that BP’s drilling operations included safety and cleanup procedures in the event of an accident, as extracting oil is BP’s main line of business operations.

When companies, through negligence or loopholes, place the public in continuous harm’s way, it becomes the right of the public to voice OUTRAGE towards such company for change because without the public voice of outrage, nothing will change.

--The OUTRAGE is not about –what if there is another spill – there will be another spill, it’s the
nature of the business.

--The OUTRAGE is about why BP or the oil industry as a whole - wasn’t prepared for an oil
spill of this nature.

--The OUTRAGE is about whether BP or the oil industry as a whole – will be ready when there
is another oil spill regardless of its size and nature.

The deaths and oil disaster along the Gulf is the direct result of BP’s greed and negligence not the public’s need for consumption of oil.

The public doesn’t have to settle on the belief that they have no recourse to this problem. It has been public outrage for relief and cleanup that has brought BP, the oil industry as whole, and governments of both the U.S. and UK to the table to seek resolution of this disaster. Sometimes continuous public outrage is the only method of applying pressure for change and should not be dismissed as people acting like ‘spoiled children’ or ‘petty gripes’.

polaris_x

puremagic wrote:

You repeatly blame the public – when it is not the responsibility of the public to oversee any company’s product from production-to-market-to-consumption; that responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the head of these companies.

The public had every right of EXPECTATION to believe that BP’s drilling operations included safety and cleanup procedures in the event of an accident, as extracting oil is BP’s main line of business operations.

When companies, through negligence or loopholes, place the public in continuous harm’s way, it becomes the right of the public to voice OUTRAGE towards such company for change because without the public voice of outrage, nothing will change.

--The OUTRAGE is not about –what if there is another spill – there will be another spill, it’s the
nature of the business.

--The OUTRAGE is about why BP or the oil industry as a whole - wasn’t prepared for an oil
spill of this nature.

--The OUTRAGE is about whether BP or the oil industry as a whole – will be ready when there
is another oil spill regardless of its size and nature.

The deaths and oil disaster along the Gulf is the direct result of BP’s greed and negligence not the public’s need for consumption of oil.

The public doesn’t have to settle on the belief that they have no recourse to this problem. It has been public outrage for relief and cleanup that has brought BP, the oil industry as whole, and governments of both the U.S. and UK to the table to seek resolution of this disaster. Sometimes continuous public outrage is the only method of applying pressure for change and should not be dismissed as people acting like ‘spoiled children’ or ‘petty gripes’.

i would disagree ... the public can see what the regulations are for oil companies and see that they are inadequate ... it's like saying the speed limit is 75 miles per hour in a speed zone ... who's fault is it that the driver actually kills a kid? ... sure the driver is at fault but why the heck did we make it a 75 mph zone?

granted - sifting thru industry regulations is probably not a reasonable expectation however, whether it is related to drilling, waste disposal, pollution, climate change ... or whatever ... it is clear that the oil industry does not have to consider public health or safety ...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

one of the rigs i worked on about ten years ago was so dillapidated and rusty and old the coast guard made them dock it for repairs. this was after they were caught trying to float it to the next site.

a week of 12 hour shifts literally hammering off rust in 100+ degree ballast tanks were my reward. after that i decided to go to college

FiveB247x

Everyone wants to solely blame BP or the oil industry or government but I got news for you, they're merely all reflections of us - john q. public.

The government is a reflection of the people and if they don't do their job or are poor at it, it's our responsibility to hold them accountable and change it. The public is responsible in many respects to oil consumption as well as the market place. It's mere continual practice of bad habits over and over which dictate and enable a spoil like this to occur. Add it all together and you have a selfish, uncaring oil company, an inept, self-interested government who only acts on the short term but never really fixes problems and an uneducated, self-interest, non-participating citizenship. And people wonder why these things happen.. that's why.. one step after another, through this cluster f', we get disaster.. whether political, economic or environmental. It's not hard to figure out how or why, just hard to change cause no one wants to bother.

The only thing the pubic has recourse on is it's own lack of accountability, responsibility and apathy.

puremagic wrote:

FiveB247x wrote:

It's not necessarily that I don't feel BP is responsible for the accident, I feel that we should expect it at some level. And not to repeat myself, but we get mad at the effect, yet ignore the cause.

You repeatly blame the public – when it is not the responsibility of the public to oversee any company’s product from production-to-market-to-consumption; that responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the head of these companies.

The public had every right of EXPECTATION to believe that BP’s drilling operations included safety and cleanup procedures in the event of an accident, as extracting oil is BP’s main line of business operations.

When companies, through negligence or loopholes, place the public in continuous harm’s way, it becomes the right of the public to voice OUTRAGE towards such company for change because without the public voice of outrage, nothing will change.

--The OUTRAGE is not about –what if there is another spill – there will be another spill, it’s the
nature of the business.

--The OUTRAGE is about why BP or the oil industry as a whole - wasn’t prepared for an oil
spill of this nature.

--The OUTRAGE is about whether BP or the oil industry as a whole – will be ready when there
is another oil spill regardless of its size and nature.

The deaths and oil disaster along the Gulf is the direct result of BP’s greed and negligence not the public’s need for consumption of oil.

The public doesn’t have to settle on the belief that they have no recourse to this problem. It has been public outrage for relief and cleanup that has brought BP, the oil industry as whole, and governments of both the U.S. and UK to the table to seek resolution of this disaster. Sometimes continuous public outrage is the only method of applying pressure for change and should not be dismissed as people acting like ‘spoiled children’ or ‘petty gripes’.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

FiveB247x wrote:

Everyone wants to solely blame BP or the oil industry or government but I got news for you, they're merely all reflections of us - john q. public.

The government is a reflection of the people and if they don't do their job or are poor at it, it's our responsibility to hold them accountable and change it. The public is responsible in many respects to oil consumption as well as the market place. It's mere continual practice of bad habits over and over which dictate and enable a spoil like this to occur. Add it all together and you have a selfish, uncaring oil company, an inept, self-interested government who only acts on the short term but never really fixes problems and an uneducated, self-interest, non-participating citizenship. And people wonder why these things happen.. that's why.. one step after another, through this cluster f', we get disaster.. whether political, economic or environmental. It's not hard to figure out how or why, just hard to change cause no one wants to bother.

The only thing the pubic has recourse on is it's own lack of accountability, responsibility and apathy.

You are sitting there saying that we as a society shouldn't be outraged, but then complain about our apathy. Which is it? Change doesn't come by way of apathy, so then our outrage is a direct solution to this problem. And it SHOULD be directed at BP because they were the direct cause of this disaster.

How can you call it a self-interest, non-participating citizenship based on the previous numbers of your last national election? It is also impossible for the general public to be "educated" on every source of their consumption. That is beyond realistic. And it is perfectly acceptable that we should trust a company to do the job they said they were going to do. Drill oil and not destroy ecosystems. Pretty simple.

FiveB247x

Apathy is uncaring, I care, but simply don't foresee any change coming because of the circumstances before us. I think our system is too broke to fix and our people don't have the backbone, want, care or heart to do so.

You blame a company for acting simply what's in their nature to do and be, yet excuse people for acting in theirs. It's inconsistent. It's all connected and intertwined.

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

You are sitting there saying that we as a society shouldn't be outraged, but then complain about our apathy. Which is it? Change doesn't come by way of apathy, so then our outrage is a direct solution to this problem. And it SHOULD be directed at BP because they were the direct cause of this disaster.

How can you call it a self-interest, non-participating citizenship based on the previous numbers of your last national election? It is also impossible for the general public to be "educated" on every source of their consumption. That is beyond realistic. And it is perfectly acceptable that we should trust a company to do the job they said they were going to do. Drill oil and not destroy ecosystems. Pretty simple.

polaris_x

Billy Pumpkin wrote:

You are sitting there saying that we as a society shouldn't be outraged, but then complain about our apathy. Which is it? Change doesn't come by way of apathy, so then our outrage is a direct solution to this problem. And it SHOULD be directed at BP because they were the direct cause of this disaster.

How can you call it a self-interest, non-participating citizenship based on the previous numbers of your last national election? It is also impossible for the general public to be "educated" on every source of their consumption. That is beyond realistic. And it is perfectly acceptable that we should trust a company to do the job they said they were going to do. Drill oil and not destroy ecosystems. Pretty simple.

where does it say BP or any Oil corporation will operate without destroying the ecosystem or environment? ... the reality is that this industry has been polluting and destroying the environment from the get go ... forget about the gulf spill for now ... the environmental degradation from the tar sands is just as horrific ... this isn't a one-time deal ... we've allowed this to happen simply because we not only continue to support these industries - we support a legislative system that serves this industry's purpose ...

yes ... we should be outraged at BP but when all is said and done ... the people that can make a difference is you and i ... the motives of corporations like BP are crystal clear ... PROFITS ... that's it ...

puremagic

polaris_x wrote:

i would disagree ... the public can see what the regulations are for oil companies and see that they are inadequate ... it's like saying the speed limit is 75 miles per hour in a speed zone ... who's fault is it that the driver actually kills a kid? ... sure the driver is at fault but why the heck did we make it a 75 mph zone?

granted - sifting thru industry regulations is probably not a reasonable expectation however, whether it is related to drilling, waste disposal, pollution, climate change ... or whatever ... it is clear that the oil industry does not have to consider public health or safety ...

You’re right, the public may not care about the regulations in place nor does it make a difference. What the public does care about, is if something goes wrong it should be fixed. The fact that BP could not clean up its mess drew the public outrage and continues to do so. This is a fact that was not lost on BP, the Bank of England or the UK.

That’s a strong signal to any company, create an environmental disaster you’d better be prepared to clean it up.

polaris_x

puremagic wrote:

You’re right, the public may not care about the regulations in place nor does it make a difference. What the public does care about, is if something goes wrong it should be fixed. The fact that BP could not clean up its mess drew the public outrage and continues to do so. This is a fact that was not lost on BP, the Bank of England or the UK.

That’s a strong signal to any company, create an environmental disaster you’d better be prepared to clean it up.

let's see how this plays out ...

to this day ... exxon still has not compensated the people that were affected by the valdez spill ... they continue to drag the case out in courts ... all the while people have died from being exposed to the oil during cleanup where they were not given adequate safety equipment again ... history has shown that oil companies get away with things ... i do hope this is a different scenario but nothing in the past has shown me otherwise ...

puremagic

FiveB247x wrote:

Everyone wants to solely blame BP or the oil industry or government but I got news for you, they're merely all reflections of us - john q. public.

The government is a reflection of the people and if they don't do their job or are poor at it, it's our responsibility to hold them accountable and change it. The public is responsible in many respects to oil consumption as well as the market place. It's mere continual practice of bad habits over and over which dictate and enable a spoil like this to occur. Add it all together and you have a selfish, uncaring oil company, an inept, self-interested government who only acts on the short term but never really fixes problems and an uneducated, self-interest, non-participating citizenship. And people wonder why these things happen.. that's why.. one step after another, through this cluster f', we get disaster.. whether political, economic or environmental. It's not hard to figure out how or why, just hard to change cause no one wants to bother.

The only thing the pubic has recourse on is it's own lack of accountability, responsibility and apathy.

BP is nothing like john q. public.

You see, john q. public, they are on the front line with sandbags ready to save a neighbor’s home or town against flood waters.

John q. public, they are on the front line with hammers and nails, ready to rebuild their neighbor’s home or street after a tornado.

John q. public, they are on the front line ready to donate their time, labor or whatever they can to help in any disaster around the world.

John q. public, they are on the front line with their sleeves rolled up ready to donate blood to save lives.

John q. public, they are on the front line, because someone or someplace needs help. These are the people that are packed before they are asked. These are the people who are collecting items before the call goes out. These are people willing to look into the faces of despair to bring hope and comfort.

John q. public – does these things as volunteers, as neighbors, as common citizens willing to travel State-to-State to help.

BP, on the other hand, is an oil giant who deliberately cut corners out of greed, that resulted in the death of 11 people and a massive environmental disaster in the Gulf region. Now you want to create a public image of the Americans bullying BP.

Its hard for the public to compete for corporate sponored donations that buy and sell politicians like whores, but we do our best and hold them accountable when the public's interest is at stake.