Ibut if list in sequence all steps necessary in our system to make correction or adjustments for even the smallest thing, it's quite tedious.
I honestly wasn't being sarcastic with this question, nor was I challenging you. I really wanted some insight. I'm here to have a discussion and learn, not just argue (even if it seems that way sometimes).
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I haven't followed this post, but I need an outlet now and the title of this post seems kind of appropriate.
I just learned that the amount of the outgoing oil is 8 Million litres a day. That means every 5 days the oil- amount of the Exxon Valdez accident spreads out the ocean.
Now we count already 6 to 7 weeks.... or are there 8 already?
Although I agree with the statement of this post (that we also need to accuse our way of living), I am furious about BP. They just lie; they just act so bad that you need to be outraged.
How can they lie over 7 weeks about the oil amount going out... how do they dare!
Furthermore, finally we heard about the impact of all the chemicals spread out by BP. It is more dangerous as without because this chemical kills "Plancton", the main food of fish and wale!!!.
So it makes it all worth.
And what about the many huge oil clouds that are still down the ocean, 1000 meters deep? Nobody has experiences with that and BP is still saying those clouds don't exist.
wtf.
By now I am just aware that this is the worst environmental disaster ever happened.
Furthermore: the Western oil industry, especially BP focuses extremely on offshore drilling because all other oil resources they had are more or less empty. They do this craziness supported by the government to be energy- independent to the rich oil countries like Iran/ Iraq.
So by now BP is drilling already 3000 meters down the ocean...and offshore drilling makes 70 percent of all their gained oil.
I think we may be outraged against this company. We should be! We need to be...
and ps. I try an oil and plastic free living since quite a while ...and it is to make, nearly. But which difference does it make when such a company, such an industry rules the world???
thanks for the outlet here..
nicki
there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
and the math again: guess we have already 11 exxon valdes tragedies in the gulf of mexico. :oops:
so good song full of hope, so bad news full of sadness.
good night for now from europe. nicki
there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
I understand appreciate your honesty and discussion (something we don't get too much around here anymore).
Anyways, I guess you see my commentary as mere blaming or ranting towards society, yet I think our habits and actions (or lack there-of) are the cause of our problems. It's very easy point out the bad things in a problem or issue, but solution and remedy always comes from viewing it open, honestly, directly and at the heart of the matter. We can be sad that BP f'ed our environment up, but when you ask the why question, it all points back to ourselves, not really them.
I don't take offense at all. Honestly, except the point of "who is to blame" ultimately, I think we are on the same page. I agree that change is necessary; it has been necessary for eons. And you're right, it won't happen without people starting to make a change, instead of talking about it. That was my question to you. I am blaming BP but offering no solutions; you are blaming society but offer no solutions, so we're doing the same thing, that's just what I was trying to point out.
There are so many ills of the world, not just over-consumption, that disgust me about the human race. Believe me. Crown Royal helps.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
well, we'll still have to disagree on the one point: I hold BP directly responsible for this specific disaster, not society. However, I do agree with you that society as a whole has a responsibility to change our ways in order to better serve the environment that we so calously mistreat.
I understand appreciate your honesty and discussion (something we don't get too much around here anymore).
Anyways, I guess you see my commentary as mere blaming or ranting towards society, yet I think our habits and actions (or lack there-of) are the cause of our problems. It's very easy point out the bad things in a problem or issue, but solution and remedy always comes from viewing it open, honestly, directly and at the heart of the matter. We can be sad that BP f'ed our environment up, but when you ask the why question, it all points back to ourselves, not really them.
I don't take offense at all. Honestly, except the point of "who is to blame" ultimately, I think we are on the same page. I agree that change is necessary; it has been necessary for eons. And you're right, it won't happen without people starting to make a change, instead of talking about it. That was my question to you. I am blaming BP but offering no solutions; you are blaming society but offer no solutions, so we're doing the same thing, that's just what I was trying to point out.
There are so many ills of the world, not just over-consumption, that disgust me about the human race. Believe me. Crown Royal helps.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
It's not necessarily that I don't feel BP is responsible for the accident, I feel that we should expect it at some level. And not to repeat myself, but we get mad at the effect, yet ignore the cause. Anyways... was nice talking it out with you. Cheers.
well, we'll still have to disagree on the one point: I hold BP directly responsible for this specific disaster, not society. However, I do agree with you that society as a whole has a responsibility to change our ways in order to better serve the environment that we so calously mistreat.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't think the outrage at BP is ridiculous. I find it stomach turning to see oil-slimed birds and dead sea turtles on my front page each morning. And the ones you don't see...they're what worry me the most. How many dead? It's a horrible disaster. That said, BP is probably no worse than any other oil company...and no better. I think this thing was just a matter of time in coming. It came to BP first...it could come to any of the big oil companies at any time...and I wonder if this doesn't give terrorists any more ideas than they already have. Could be awful unless everyone gets on board and puts in multiple safeguards. And the boycotting of BP sounds great...I liked it...don't go BP/Amaco...until it was publicized in the papers that my retirement fund depends (partly) on the health of BP. What an international web we weave when we participate in a global economy and in global investments. In the old days, it was easy to see who the bad guys were. They always wore the black hats. Now, the bad guys are you...but are you really a bad guy just for wanting a job and retirement? It's all very complicated.
Dude, first off, learn to write in a more coherent fashion. Half of what you wrote is unreadable. Second, there should be outrage, not only at people and there consumption of oil, but at BP and the other companies involved, the government agency that turned a blind eye and allowed this to happen, and the government itself for its inaction. BP, Haliburton and the other companies involved should pay for the clean up and containment, The US government needs to come up with a solution and fix this problem. People should consume less oil (I do my part by taking a regional rail to work everyday). Your arguments are weak and don't do anything constructive. Try reading a book on how to form a coherent argument you moron.
There is nothing wrong with what he/her said, he's just stating his/her opinion. As for finding a solution, that solution is in the relief well that is scheduled to be finished in August. In the future maybe your government should require relief wells be drilled and environmental assessments be done for every drilling projects.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Dude, first off, learn to write in a more coherent fashion. Half of what you wrote is unreadable. Second, there should be outrage, not only at people and there consumption of oil, but at BP and the other companies involved, the government agency that turned a blind eye and allowed this to happen, and the government itself for its inaction. BP, Haliburton and the other companies involved should pay for the clean up and containment, The US government needs to come up with a solution and fix this problem. People should consume less oil (I do my part by taking a regional rail to work everyday). Your arguments are weak and don't do anything constructive. Try reading a book on how to form a coherent argument you moron.
how constructive. by posting such nonsense you are making yourself look worse than any bad grammar or sentence structure possibly could.
And I actually found nothing unreadable about the OP. Maybe you need some glasses? :geek:
Pointless, but I must say I understood the OP. I didn't see many problems and I am a stickler for that kinda stuff. I know, "kinda", is not a word.
Who the f*ck goes around skinning cats~~Ed
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
It's not necessarily that I don't feel BP is responsible for the accident, I feel that we should expect it at some level. And not to repeat myself, but we get mad at the effect, yet ignore the cause.
You repeatly blame the public – when it is not the responsibility of the public to oversee any company’s product from production-to-market-to-consumption; that responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the head of these companies.
The public had every right of EXPECTATION to believe that BP’s drilling operations included safety and cleanup procedures in the event of an accident, as extracting oil is BP’s main line of business operations.
When companies, through negligence or loopholes, place the public in continuous harm’s way, it becomes the right of the public to voice OUTRAGE towards such company for change because without the public voice of outrage, nothing will change.
--The OUTRAGE is not about –what if there is another spill – there will be another spill, it’s the
nature of the business.
--The OUTRAGE is about why BP or the oil industry as a whole - wasn’t prepared for an oil
spill of this nature.
--The OUTRAGE is about whether BP or the oil industry as a whole – will be ready when there
is another oil spill regardless of its size and nature.
The deaths and oil disaster along the Gulf is the direct result of BP’s greed and negligence not the public’s need for consumption of oil.
The public doesn’t have to settle on the belief that they have no recourse to this problem. It has been public outrage for relief and cleanup that has brought BP, the oil industry as whole, and governments of both the U.S. and UK to the table to seek resolution of this disaster. Sometimes continuous public outrage is the only method of applying pressure for change and should not be dismissed as people acting like ‘spoiled children’ or ‘petty gripes’.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
You repeatly blame the public – when it is not the responsibility of the public to oversee any company’s product from production-to-market-to-consumption; that responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the head of these companies.
The public had every right of EXPECTATION to believe that BP’s drilling operations included safety and cleanup procedures in the event of an accident, as extracting oil is BP’s main line of business operations.
When companies, through negligence or loopholes, place the public in continuous harm’s way, it becomes the right of the public to voice OUTRAGE towards such company for change because without the public voice of outrage, nothing will change.
--The OUTRAGE is not about –what if there is another spill – there will be another spill, it’s the
nature of the business.
--The OUTRAGE is about why BP or the oil industry as a whole - wasn’t prepared for an oil
spill of this nature.
--The OUTRAGE is about whether BP or the oil industry as a whole – will be ready when there
is another oil spill regardless of its size and nature.
The deaths and oil disaster along the Gulf is the direct result of BP’s greed and negligence not the public’s need for consumption of oil.
The public doesn’t have to settle on the belief that they have no recourse to this problem. It has been public outrage for relief and cleanup that has brought BP, the oil industry as whole, and governments of both the U.S. and UK to the table to seek resolution of this disaster. Sometimes continuous public outrage is the only method of applying pressure for change and should not be dismissed as people acting like ‘spoiled children’ or ‘petty gripes’.
i would disagree ... the public can see what the regulations are for oil companies and see that they are inadequate ... it's like saying the speed limit is 75 miles per hour in a speed zone ... who's fault is it that the driver actually kills a kid? ... sure the driver is at fault but why the heck did we make it a 75 mph zone?
granted - sifting thru industry regulations is probably not a reasonable expectation however, whether it is related to drilling, waste disposal, pollution, climate change ... or whatever ... it is clear that the oil industry does not have to consider public health or safety ...
one of the rigs i worked on about ten years ago was so dillapidated and rusty and old the coast guard made them dock it for repairs. this was after they were caught trying to float it to the next site.
a week of 12 hour shifts literally hammering off rust in 100+ degree ballast tanks were my reward. after that i decided to go to college
Everyone wants to solely blame BP or the oil industry or government but I got news for you, they're merely all reflections of us - john q. public.
The government is a reflection of the people and if they don't do their job or are poor at it, it's our responsibility to hold them accountable and change it. The public is responsible in many respects to oil consumption as well as the market place. It's mere continual practice of bad habits over and over which dictate and enable a spoil like this to occur. Add it all together and you have a selfish, uncaring oil company, an inept, self-interested government who only acts on the short term but never really fixes problems and an uneducated, self-interest, non-participating citizenship. And people wonder why these things happen.. that's why.. one step after another, through this cluster f', we get disaster.. whether political, economic or environmental. It's not hard to figure out how or why, just hard to change cause no one wants to bother.
The only thing the pubic has recourse on is it's own lack of accountability, responsibility and apathy.
It's not necessarily that I don't feel BP is responsible for the accident, I feel that we should expect it at some level. And not to repeat myself, but we get mad at the effect, yet ignore the cause.
You repeatly blame the public – when it is not the responsibility of the public to oversee any company’s product from production-to-market-to-consumption; that responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the head of these companies.
The public had every right of EXPECTATION to believe that BP’s drilling operations included safety and cleanup procedures in the event of an accident, as extracting oil is BP’s main line of business operations.
When companies, through negligence or loopholes, place the public in continuous harm’s way, it becomes the right of the public to voice OUTRAGE towards such company for change because without the public voice of outrage, nothing will change.
--The OUTRAGE is not about –what if there is another spill – there will be another spill, it’s the
nature of the business.
--The OUTRAGE is about why BP or the oil industry as a whole - wasn’t prepared for an oil
spill of this nature.
--The OUTRAGE is about whether BP or the oil industry as a whole – will be ready when there
is another oil spill regardless of its size and nature.
The deaths and oil disaster along the Gulf is the direct result of BP’s greed and negligence not the public’s need for consumption of oil.
The public doesn’t have to settle on the belief that they have no recourse to this problem. It has been public outrage for relief and cleanup that has brought BP, the oil industry as whole, and governments of both the U.S. and UK to the table to seek resolution of this disaster. Sometimes continuous public outrage is the only method of applying pressure for change and should not be dismissed as people acting like ‘spoiled children’ or ‘petty gripes’.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Everyone wants to solely blame BP or the oil industry or government but I got news for you, they're merely all reflections of us - john q. public.
The government is a reflection of the people and if they don't do their job or are poor at it, it's our responsibility to hold them accountable and change it. The public is responsible in many respects to oil consumption as well as the market place. It's mere continual practice of bad habits over and over which dictate and enable a spoil like this to occur. Add it all together and you have a selfish, uncaring oil company, an inept, self-interested government who only acts on the short term but never really fixes problems and an uneducated, self-interest, non-participating citizenship. And people wonder why these things happen.. that's why.. one step after another, through this cluster f', we get disaster.. whether political, economic or environmental. It's not hard to figure out how or why, just hard to change cause no one wants to bother.
The only thing the pubic has recourse on is it's own lack of accountability, responsibility and apathy.
You are sitting there saying that we as a society shouldn't be outraged, but then complain about our apathy. Which is it? Change doesn't come by way of apathy, so then our outrage is a direct solution to this problem. And it SHOULD be directed at BP because they were the direct cause of this disaster.
How can you call it a self-interest, non-participating citizenship based on the previous numbers of your last national election? It is also impossible for the general public to be "educated" on every source of their consumption. That is beyond realistic. And it is perfectly acceptable that we should trust a company to do the job they said they were going to do. Drill oil and not destroy ecosystems. Pretty simple.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Apathy is uncaring, I care, but simply don't foresee any change coming because of the circumstances before us. I think our system is too broke to fix and our people don't have the backbone, want, care or heart to do so.
You blame a company for acting simply what's in their nature to do and be, yet excuse people for acting in theirs. It's inconsistent. It's all connected and intertwined.
You are sitting there saying that we as a society shouldn't be outraged, but then complain about our apathy. Which is it? Change doesn't come by way of apathy, so then our outrage is a direct solution to this problem. And it SHOULD be directed at BP because they were the direct cause of this disaster.
How can you call it a self-interest, non-participating citizenship based on the previous numbers of your last national election? It is also impossible for the general public to be "educated" on every source of their consumption. That is beyond realistic. And it is perfectly acceptable that we should trust a company to do the job they said they were going to do. Drill oil and not destroy ecosystems. Pretty simple.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You are sitting there saying that we as a society shouldn't be outraged, but then complain about our apathy. Which is it? Change doesn't come by way of apathy, so then our outrage is a direct solution to this problem. And it SHOULD be directed at BP because they were the direct cause of this disaster.
How can you call it a self-interest, non-participating citizenship based on the previous numbers of your last national election? It is also impossible for the general public to be "educated" on every source of their consumption. That is beyond realistic. And it is perfectly acceptable that we should trust a company to do the job they said they were going to do. Drill oil and not destroy ecosystems. Pretty simple.
where does it say BP or any Oil corporation will operate without destroying the ecosystem or environment? ... the reality is that this industry has been polluting and destroying the environment from the get go ... forget about the gulf spill for now ... the environmental degradation from the tar sands is just as horrific ... this isn't a one-time deal ... we've allowed this to happen simply because we not only continue to support these industries - we support a legislative system that serves this industry's purpose ...
yes ... we should be outraged at BP but when all is said and done ... the people that can make a difference is you and i ... the motives of corporations like BP are crystal clear ... PROFITS ... that's it ...
i would disagree ... the public can see what the regulations are for oil companies and see that they are inadequate ... it's like saying the speed limit is 75 miles per hour in a speed zone ... who's fault is it that the driver actually kills a kid? ... sure the driver is at fault but why the heck did we make it a 75 mph zone?
granted - sifting thru industry regulations is probably not a reasonable expectation however, whether it is related to drilling, waste disposal, pollution, climate change ... or whatever ... it is clear that the oil industry does not have to consider public health or safety ...
You’re right, the public may not care about the regulations in place nor does it make a difference. What the public does care about, is if something goes wrong it should be fixed. The fact that BP could not clean up its mess drew the public outrage and continues to do so. This is a fact that was not lost on BP, the Bank of England or the UK.
That’s a strong signal to any company, create an environmental disaster you’d better be prepared to clean it up.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
You’re right, the public may not care about the regulations in place nor does it make a difference. What the public does care about, is if something goes wrong it should be fixed. The fact that BP could not clean up its mess drew the public outrage and continues to do so. This is a fact that was not lost on BP, the Bank of England or the UK.
That’s a strong signal to any company, create an environmental disaster you’d better be prepared to clean it up.
let's see how this plays out ...
to this day ... exxon still has not compensated the people that were affected by the valdez spill ... they continue to drag the case out in courts ... all the while people have died from being exposed to the oil during cleanup where they were not given adequate safety equipment again ... history has shown that oil companies get away with things ... i do hope this is a different scenario but nothing in the past has shown me otherwise ...
Everyone wants to solely blame BP or the oil industry or government but I got news for you, they're merely all reflections of us - john q. public.
The government is a reflection of the people and if they don't do their job or are poor at it, it's our responsibility to hold them accountable and change it. The public is responsible in many respects to oil consumption as well as the market place. It's mere continual practice of bad habits over and over which dictate and enable a spoil like this to occur. Add it all together and you have a selfish, uncaring oil company, an inept, self-interested government who only acts on the short term but never really fixes problems and an uneducated, self-interest, non-participating citizenship. And people wonder why these things happen.. that's why.. one step after another, through this cluster f', we get disaster.. whether political, economic or environmental. It's not hard to figure out how or why, just hard to change cause no one wants to bother.
The only thing the pubic has recourse on is it's own lack of accountability, responsibility and apathy.
BP is nothing like john q. public.
You see, john q. public, they are on the front line with sandbags ready to save a neighbor’s home or town against flood waters.
John q. public, they are on the front line with hammers and nails, ready to rebuild their neighbor’s home or street after a tornado.
John q. public, they are on the front line ready to donate their time, labor or whatever they can to help in any disaster around the world.
John q. public, they are on the front line with their sleeves rolled up ready to donate blood to save lives.
John q. public, they are on the front line, because someone or someplace needs help. These are the people that are packed before they are asked. These are the people who are collecting items before the call goes out. These are people willing to look into the faces of despair to bring hope and comfort.
John q. public – does these things as volunteers, as neighbors, as common citizens willing to travel State-to-State to help.
BP, on the other hand, is an oil giant who deliberately cut corners out of greed, that resulted in the death of 11 people and a massive environmental disaster in the Gulf region. Now you want to create a public image of the Americans bullying BP.
Its hard for the public to compete for corporate sponored donations that buy and sell politicians like whores, but we do our best and hold them accountable when the public's interest is at stake.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
1. the dispersants are known to be toxic to aquatic life and they are still using it
2. they won't allow anyone to test it
3. the EPA has like zero authority
what this ultimately showcases yet again is that these corporations work above the law ... and do not care about the public ... they have a willing ally in the gov't ...
Time to get tough with BP on dispersants
by Tom Philpott
15 Jun 2010 4:00 AM
Read More About
Climate & Energy, dispersants, Environmental Health, Gulf of Mexico oil spill, Politics Share Print
As of June 9, BP had applied at least 1.1 million gallons of toxic chemical dispersants to address its ongoing oil leak in the Gulf. That's the most that has been used in one place since 1979, when the Mexican government dropped between 1 million and 2.5 million gallons on a leak off the coast of Vera Cruz, the EPA reports.
As I reported in early May, the dispersant products, branded Corexit 9527A and Corexit 9500A, were made exclusively by a former Exxon subsidiary now owned by a company called Nalco. Exxon researchers had already acknowledged that they were significantly toxic for aquatic life. But just how toxic was mysterious -- particularly for humans. The publicly available data sheets for both products revealed that they have the "potential to bioconcentrate," but added this stunner: "No toxicity studies have been conducted on this product."
Information about their precise composition was also vague, clouded by a veil of secrecy based on "proprietary" concerns. I found the information scarcity outrageous. A private company fouls a vast public resource and then dumps hundreds of thousands of gallons of a toxic chemical potion into it. Doesn't the public have the right to know precisely what's in that potion?
To me, the real culprit in the dispersants story wasn't BP or Nalco. Those companies are beholden to their shareholders to maximize profit. BP is working frantically to limit its liability from an ecological snafu of nearly bottomless proportions. Keeping as much oil off of shorelines and underwater, where its damage is hard to quantify, serves the company's economic interests. As for Nalco, its chief interest is to move product. Releasing precise information about its dispersants evidently works against that goal.
The real culprits in the dispersants affair, I argued, were the federal agencies overseeing the spill response: NOAA and EPA. They are duty-bound to protect the public and the Gulf ecosystem. Rather than cowering to the side, fretting about "proprietary" considerations, they should have been demanding Corexit samples and performing or commissioning studies. And if Nalco refused to hand over samples, the federal watchdogs should have bared their teeth and sued.
Even if the companies managed to fight off the challenges in court, they'd be exposing themselves to a potential PR firestorm -- and likely be shamed into behaving decently.
After my initial burst of reporting, I spent a week in California at the end of May, got immersed in other things, and lost track of the story. Honestly, I assumed that with increasing media attention, the EPA and NOAA would wrestle control over dispersant use from BP and impose a rational policy.
Memo to self: Don't be so naive ever again. The Public Radio International show "Living on Earth" reports that Nalco still won't release Corexit samples to independent researchers. LOE staff talked to no fewer than five university-based scientists who have been denied access to Corexit. These people are trying to answer critical questions: When you combine Corexit with crude oil in a seawater medium, how does the resulting mixture behave? How quickly does it dissipate? How much oxygen does its decomposition tie up, potentially making life inhospitable to marine life? How does the toxicity of the oil/Corexit mixture compare to that of the individual components? And so on.
University of Georgia marine sciences professor Samantha Joye had this to say:
In terms of understanding the impacts of dispersants on microbial activity I and many others are still trying to get samples of the various dispersants that are being used. I've been unable to secure any so far.
Added toxicology professor Ron Kendall, who directs the Institute of Environmental and Human Health at Texas Tech University:
We attempted to acquire the Corexit from the manufacturer and basically were given a roadblock and have not been able to obtain it.
Meanwhile, as Nalco stonewalls independent researchers, the EPA is evidently getting quite worried about the toxicity of the dispersants -- and BP is brazenly ignoring the agency's requests on their use.
First, back on May 20, there was this widely reported EPA "directive" for BP to "identify and use a less toxic and more effective dispersant from the list of EPA authorized dispersants." BP responded like a spoiled teenager shurgging off an empty parental threat. The answer, in a word: no.
And now, according to Brad Johnson of the Wonk Room, BP is brazenly ignoring explicit EPA requests on dispersant use. Johnson points to yet another EPA directive, this one demanding that the company "eliminate the surface application of dispersants" and limit subsea applications to "not more than 15,000 gallons in a single calendar day," with a goal to reducing daily use to 75 percent of that low rate.
In other words, the EPA is calling for the near elimination of dispersants as a tool for addressing the spill -- evidence that the agency is highly skeptical of their benefits. And BP's response? Wonk Room's Johnson reports:
A Wonk Room analysis of information released by the oil disaster command center found that the May 26 directive has not been followed -- 120,000 gallons of dispersant have been used at the surface, total use is only down by 25 percent, and on Sunday, June 6, BP used 33,000 gallons of subsea dispersant, more than twice the allowed amount.
Confronted about the disobedience, Johnson reports, the EPA responded that BP personnel "blamed ‘mechanical difficulties' but do not expect it to happen again.'"
"Mechanical difficulties"? Sorry, that's hollow. It might have made sense a week after the "directive." Two weeks after, not so much.
As Tim Dickinson's Rolling Stone exposé (summarized here) shows in depressing detail, the Obama administration has proved unable to stand up to the oil industry on matters of substance both before and after the Deepwater blowout. (The administration's craven acceptance of BP's policy of passing on clearly false "estimates" of the leak rate are just one example.) In addition to the ConocoPhillips director now co-leading the administration's investigation of the disaster, the administration last year plucked no fewer than two execs from longtime perches at BP and gave them high positions in the Department of Energy and the Mineral Mining Services.
If Obama wants to credibly declare independence from the industry and show he's serious about shifting from oil to cleaner sources, wresting control over the dispersants issue from BP would make a good start
You see, john q. public, they are on the front line with sandbags ready to save a neighbor’s home or town against flood waters.
John q. public, they are on the front line with hammers and nails, ready to rebuild their neighbor’s home or street after a tornado.
John q. public, they are on the front line ready to donate their time, labor or whatever they can to help in any disaster around the world.
John q. public, they are on the front line with their sleeves rolled up ready to donate blood to save lives.
John q. public, they are on the front line, because someone or someplace needs help. These are the people that are packed before they are asked. These are the people who are collecting items before the call goes out. These are people willing to look into the faces of despair to bring hope and comfort.
John q. public – does these things as volunteers, as neighbors, as common citizens willing to travel State-to-State to help.
BP, on the other hand, is an oil giant who deliberately cut corners out of greed, that resulted in the death of 11 people and a massive environmental disaster in the Gulf region. Now you want to create a public image of the Americans bullying BP.
Its hard for the public to compete for corporate sponored donations that buy and sell politicians like whores, but we do our best and hold them accountable when the public's interest is at stake.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You’re right, the public may not care about the regulations in place nor does it make a difference. What the public does care about, is if something goes wrong it should be fixed. The fact that BP could not clean up its mess drew the public outrage and continues to do so. This is a fact that was not lost on BP, the Bank of England or the UK.
That’s a strong signal to any company, create an environmental disaster you’d better be prepared to clean it up.
let's see how this plays out ...
to this day ... exxon still has not compensated the people that were affected by the valdez spill ... they continue to drag the case out in courts ... all the while people have died from being exposed to the oil during cleanup where they were not given adequate safety equipment again ... history has shown that oil companies get away with things ... i do hope this is a different scenario but nothing in the past has shown me otherwise ...
Nothing in the past has been this devastating and the economic timing highlights the problem.
Nothing in the past has demonstrated just how negligent BP’s safety and cleanup procedures were handled.
No one has ever proposed putting an oil company of this stature into receivership.
BP would have to weigh whether it could survive being in receivership during the remainder of Obama’s term while BP fought the DOJ.
BP would have to weigh whether offshore drilling would continue to be on hold during Obama’s term while BP fought the DOJ.
BP needs to move on and the talk about sitting aside revenues to settle claims (now) is one of the ways.
BP’s not concerned about the money, it will recoup money, what it can’t recoup is the money it is losing on the trading of its stocks.
This will not be another [hold your breath til you die] Valdez deal.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Apathy is uncaring, I care, but simply don't foresee any change coming because of the circumstances before us. I think our system is too broke to fix and our people don't have the backbone, want, care or heart to do so.
You blame a company for acting simply what's in their nature to do and be, yet excuse people for acting in theirs. It's inconsistent. It's all connected and intertwined.
it's in a company's nature to destroy the earth? I'm blaming them for acting irresponsibly. I'm not excusing anyone for any thing.
Saying "I think our system is too broke to fix" is apathy at it's worst.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
An oil company does not care about the environment, people or similar, they only care about profits. If they ruin the environment in the process, they do not care, other people do.
And there's a difference between being simply apathetic compared to hoping for change even though I don't think it's realistic, practical or possible.
it's in a company's nature to destroy the earth? I'm blaming them for acting irresponsibly. I'm not excusing anyone for any thing.
Saying "I think our system is too broke to fix" is apathy at it's worst.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
there has definitely been a precedent for oil spills ... this list is just the largest ... a simple google search and you will see there are at least a dozen significant oil spills a year ...
i also counter your point about BPs cleaning procedure when it is clear that regulations for the oil industry have been washed away by the federal gov'ts ... mainly bush ...
how can you say that BP is not concerned about money but then talke about them going into receivership? ...
Comments
I honestly wasn't being sarcastic with this question, nor was I challenging you. I really wanted some insight. I'm here to have a discussion and learn, not just argue (even if it seems that way sometimes).
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I just learned that the amount of the outgoing oil is 8 Million litres a day. That means every 5 days the oil- amount of the Exxon Valdez accident spreads out the ocean.
Now we count already 6 to 7 weeks.... or are there 8 already?
Although I agree with the statement of this post (that we also need to accuse our way of living), I am furious about BP.
They just lie; they just act so bad that you need to be outraged.
How can they lie over 7 weeks about the oil amount going out... how do they dare!
Furthermore, finally we heard about the impact of all the chemicals spread out by BP. It is more dangerous as without because this chemical kills "Plancton", the main food of fish and wale!!!.
So it makes it all worth.
And what about the many huge oil clouds that are still down the ocean, 1000 meters deep? Nobody has experiences with that and BP is still saying those clouds don't exist.
wtf.
By now I am just aware that this is the worst environmental disaster ever happened.
Furthermore: the Western oil industry, especially BP focuses extremely on offshore drilling because all other oil resources they had are more or less empty. They do this craziness supported by the government to be energy- independent to the rich oil countries like Iran/ Iraq.
So by now BP is drilling already 3000 meters down the ocean...and offshore drilling makes 70 percent of all their gained oil.
I think we may be outraged against this company. We should be! We need to be...
and ps. I try an oil and plastic free living since quite a while ...and it is to make, nearly. But which difference does it make when such a company, such an industry rules the world???
thanks for the outlet here..
nicki
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
and the math again: guess we have already 11 exxon valdes tragedies in the gulf of mexico. :oops:
so good song full of hope, so bad news full of sadness.
good night for now from europe. nicki
...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
Anyways, I guess you see my commentary as mere blaming or ranting towards society, yet I think our habits and actions (or lack there-of) are the cause of our problems. It's very easy point out the bad things in a problem or issue, but solution and remedy always comes from viewing it open, honestly, directly and at the heart of the matter. We can be sad that BP f'ed our environment up, but when you ask the why question, it all points back to ourselves, not really them.
And I prefer Jamieson, not Crown
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XUZVusIm8s&feature=PlayList&p=9F568BAD1499C499&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
There is nothing wrong with what he/her said, he's just stating his/her opinion. As for finding a solution, that solution is in the relief well that is scheduled to be finished in August. In the future maybe your government should require relief wells be drilled and environmental assessments be done for every drilling projects.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Pointless, but I must say I understood the OP. I didn't see many problems and I am a stickler for that kinda stuff. I know, "kinda", is not a word.
It all comes down to changing your head~~John Lennon
MSG 6-24-08/MSG 5-21-10/Philly MIA 9-2-12/Chicago Wrigley Field 7-19-13/Brooklyn NY 1&2 10-2013/Philly 1&2 10-2013
You repeatly blame the public – when it is not the responsibility of the public to oversee any company’s product from production-to-market-to-consumption; that responsibility rests squarely on the shoulders of the head of these companies.
The public had every right of EXPECTATION to believe that BP’s drilling operations included safety and cleanup procedures in the event of an accident, as extracting oil is BP’s main line of business operations.
When companies, through negligence or loopholes, place the public in continuous harm’s way, it becomes the right of the public to voice OUTRAGE towards such company for change because without the public voice of outrage, nothing will change.
--The OUTRAGE is not about –what if there is another spill – there will be another spill, it’s the
nature of the business.
--The OUTRAGE is about why BP or the oil industry as a whole - wasn’t prepared for an oil
spill of this nature.
--The OUTRAGE is about whether BP or the oil industry as a whole – will be ready when there
is another oil spill regardless of its size and nature.
The deaths and oil disaster along the Gulf is the direct result of BP’s greed and negligence not the public’s need for consumption of oil.
The public doesn’t have to settle on the belief that they have no recourse to this problem. It has been public outrage for relief and cleanup that has brought BP, the oil industry as whole, and governments of both the U.S. and UK to the table to seek resolution of this disaster. Sometimes continuous public outrage is the only method of applying pressure for change and should not be dismissed as people acting like ‘spoiled children’ or ‘petty gripes’.
i would disagree ... the public can see what the regulations are for oil companies and see that they are inadequate ... it's like saying the speed limit is 75 miles per hour in a speed zone ... who's fault is it that the driver actually kills a kid? ... sure the driver is at fault but why the heck did we make it a 75 mph zone?
granted - sifting thru industry regulations is probably not a reasonable expectation however, whether it is related to drilling, waste disposal, pollution, climate change ... or whatever ... it is clear that the oil industry does not have to consider public health or safety ...
a week of 12 hour shifts literally hammering off rust in 100+ degree ballast tanks were my reward. after that i decided to go to college
The government is a reflection of the people and if they don't do their job or are poor at it, it's our responsibility to hold them accountable and change it. The public is responsible in many respects to oil consumption as well as the market place. It's mere continual practice of bad habits over and over which dictate and enable a spoil like this to occur. Add it all together and you have a selfish, uncaring oil company, an inept, self-interested government who only acts on the short term but never really fixes problems and an uneducated, self-interest, non-participating citizenship. And people wonder why these things happen.. that's why.. one step after another, through this cluster f', we get disaster.. whether political, economic or environmental. It's not hard to figure out how or why, just hard to change cause no one wants to bother.
The only thing the pubic has recourse on is it's own lack of accountability, responsibility and apathy.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You are sitting there saying that we as a society shouldn't be outraged, but then complain about our apathy. Which is it? Change doesn't come by way of apathy, so then our outrage is a direct solution to this problem. And it SHOULD be directed at BP because they were the direct cause of this disaster.
How can you call it a self-interest, non-participating citizenship based on the previous numbers of your last national election? It is also impossible for the general public to be "educated" on every source of their consumption. That is beyond realistic. And it is perfectly acceptable that we should trust a company to do the job they said they were going to do. Drill oil and not destroy ecosystems. Pretty simple.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You blame a company for acting simply what's in their nature to do and be, yet excuse people for acting in theirs. It's inconsistent. It's all connected and intertwined.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
where does it say BP or any Oil corporation will operate without destroying the ecosystem or environment? ... the reality is that this industry has been polluting and destroying the environment from the get go ... forget about the gulf spill for now ... the environmental degradation from the tar sands is just as horrific ... this isn't a one-time deal ... we've allowed this to happen simply because we not only continue to support these industries - we support a legislative system that serves this industry's purpose ...
yes ... we should be outraged at BP but when all is said and done ... the people that can make a difference is you and i ... the motives of corporations like BP are crystal clear ... PROFITS ... that's it ...
You’re right, the public may not care about the regulations in place nor does it make a difference. What the public does care about, is if something goes wrong it should be fixed. The fact that BP could not clean up its mess drew the public outrage and continues to do so. This is a fact that was not lost on BP, the Bank of England or the UK.
That’s a strong signal to any company, create an environmental disaster you’d better be prepared to clean it up.
let's see how this plays out ...
to this day ... exxon still has not compensated the people that were affected by the valdez spill ... they continue to drag the case out in courts ... all the while people have died from being exposed to the oil during cleanup where they were not given adequate safety equipment again ... history has shown that oil companies get away with things ... i do hope this is a different scenario but nothing in the past has shown me otherwise ...
BP is nothing like john q. public.
You see, john q. public, they are on the front line with sandbags ready to save a neighbor’s home or town against flood waters.
John q. public, they are on the front line with hammers and nails, ready to rebuild their neighbor’s home or street after a tornado.
John q. public, they are on the front line ready to donate their time, labor or whatever they can to help in any disaster around the world.
John q. public, they are on the front line with their sleeves rolled up ready to donate blood to save lives.
John q. public, they are on the front line, because someone or someplace needs help. These are the people that are packed before they are asked. These are the people who are collecting items before the call goes out. These are people willing to look into the faces of despair to bring hope and comfort.
John q. public – does these things as volunteers, as neighbors, as common citizens willing to travel State-to-State to help.
BP, on the other hand, is an oil giant who deliberately cut corners out of greed, that resulted in the death of 11 people and a massive environmental disaster in the Gulf region. Now you want to create a public image of the Americans bullying BP.
Its hard for the public to compete for corporate sponored donations that buy and sell politicians like whores, but we do our best and hold them accountable when the public's interest is at stake.
1. the dispersants are known to be toxic to aquatic life and they are still using it
2. they won't allow anyone to test it
3. the EPA has like zero authority
what this ultimately showcases yet again is that these corporations work above the law ... and do not care about the public ... they have a willing ally in the gov't ...
********************************************
http://www.grist.org/article/Time-tough ... ants-Obama
Time to get tough with BP on dispersants
by Tom Philpott
15 Jun 2010 4:00 AM
Read More About
Climate & Energy, dispersants, Environmental Health, Gulf of Mexico oil spill, Politics Share Print
As of June 9, BP had applied at least 1.1 million gallons of toxic chemical dispersants to address its ongoing oil leak in the Gulf. That's the most that has been used in one place since 1979, when the Mexican government dropped between 1 million and 2.5 million gallons on a leak off the coast of Vera Cruz, the EPA reports.
As I reported in early May, the dispersant products, branded Corexit 9527A and Corexit 9500A, were made exclusively by a former Exxon subsidiary now owned by a company called Nalco. Exxon researchers had already acknowledged that they were significantly toxic for aquatic life. But just how toxic was mysterious -- particularly for humans. The publicly available data sheets for both products revealed that they have the "potential to bioconcentrate," but added this stunner: "No toxicity studies have been conducted on this product."
Information about their precise composition was also vague, clouded by a veil of secrecy based on "proprietary" concerns. I found the information scarcity outrageous. A private company fouls a vast public resource and then dumps hundreds of thousands of gallons of a toxic chemical potion into it. Doesn't the public have the right to know precisely what's in that potion?
To me, the real culprit in the dispersants story wasn't BP or Nalco. Those companies are beholden to their shareholders to maximize profit. BP is working frantically to limit its liability from an ecological snafu of nearly bottomless proportions. Keeping as much oil off of shorelines and underwater, where its damage is hard to quantify, serves the company's economic interests. As for Nalco, its chief interest is to move product. Releasing precise information about its dispersants evidently works against that goal.
The real culprits in the dispersants affair, I argued, were the federal agencies overseeing the spill response: NOAA and EPA. They are duty-bound to protect the public and the Gulf ecosystem. Rather than cowering to the side, fretting about "proprietary" considerations, they should have been demanding Corexit samples and performing or commissioning studies. And if Nalco refused to hand over samples, the federal watchdogs should have bared their teeth and sued.
Even if the companies managed to fight off the challenges in court, they'd be exposing themselves to a potential PR firestorm -- and likely be shamed into behaving decently.
After my initial burst of reporting, I spent a week in California at the end of May, got immersed in other things, and lost track of the story. Honestly, I assumed that with increasing media attention, the EPA and NOAA would wrestle control over dispersant use from BP and impose a rational policy.
Memo to self: Don't be so naive ever again. The Public Radio International show "Living on Earth" reports that Nalco still won't release Corexit samples to independent researchers. LOE staff talked to no fewer than five university-based scientists who have been denied access to Corexit. These people are trying to answer critical questions: When you combine Corexit with crude oil in a seawater medium, how does the resulting mixture behave? How quickly does it dissipate? How much oxygen does its decomposition tie up, potentially making life inhospitable to marine life? How does the toxicity of the oil/Corexit mixture compare to that of the individual components? And so on.
University of Georgia marine sciences professor Samantha Joye had this to say:
In terms of understanding the impacts of dispersants on microbial activity I and many others are still trying to get samples of the various dispersants that are being used. I've been unable to secure any so far.
Added toxicology professor Ron Kendall, who directs the Institute of Environmental and Human Health at Texas Tech University:
We attempted to acquire the Corexit from the manufacturer and basically were given a roadblock and have not been able to obtain it.
Meanwhile, as Nalco stonewalls independent researchers, the EPA is evidently getting quite worried about the toxicity of the dispersants -- and BP is brazenly ignoring the agency's requests on their use.
First, back on May 20, there was this widely reported EPA "directive" for BP to "identify and use a less toxic and more effective dispersant from the list of EPA authorized dispersants." BP responded like a spoiled teenager shurgging off an empty parental threat. The answer, in a word: no.
And now, according to Brad Johnson of the Wonk Room, BP is brazenly ignoring explicit EPA requests on dispersant use. Johnson points to yet another EPA directive, this one demanding that the company "eliminate the surface application of dispersants" and limit subsea applications to "not more than 15,000 gallons in a single calendar day," with a goal to reducing daily use to 75 percent of that low rate.
In other words, the EPA is calling for the near elimination of dispersants as a tool for addressing the spill -- evidence that the agency is highly skeptical of their benefits. And BP's response? Wonk Room's Johnson reports:
A Wonk Room analysis of information released by the oil disaster command center found that the May 26 directive has not been followed -- 120,000 gallons of dispersant have been used at the surface, total use is only down by 25 percent, and on Sunday, June 6, BP used 33,000 gallons of subsea dispersant, more than twice the allowed amount.
Confronted about the disobedience, Johnson reports, the EPA responded that BP personnel "blamed ‘mechanical difficulties' but do not expect it to happen again.'"
"Mechanical difficulties"? Sorry, that's hollow. It might have made sense a week after the "directive." Two weeks after, not so much.
As Tim Dickinson's Rolling Stone exposé (summarized here) shows in depressing detail, the Obama administration has proved unable to stand up to the oil industry on matters of substance both before and after the Deepwater blowout. (The administration's craven acceptance of BP's policy of passing on clearly false "estimates" of the leak rate are just one example.) In addition to the ConocoPhillips director now co-leading the administration's investigation of the disaster, the administration last year plucked no fewer than two execs from longtime perches at BP and gave them high positions in the Department of Energy and the Mineral Mining Services.
If Obama wants to credibly declare independence from the industry and show he's serious about shifting from oil to cleaner sources, wresting control over the dispersants issue from BP would make a good start
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Nothing in the past has been this devastating and the economic timing highlights the problem.
Nothing in the past has demonstrated just how negligent BP’s safety and cleanup procedures were handled.
No one has ever proposed putting an oil company of this stature into receivership.
BP would have to weigh whether it could survive being in receivership during the remainder of Obama’s term while BP fought the DOJ.
BP would have to weigh whether offshore drilling would continue to be on hold during Obama’s term while BP fought the DOJ.
BP needs to move on and the talk about sitting aside revenues to settle claims (now) is one of the ways.
BP’s not concerned about the money, it will recoup money, what it can’t recoup is the money it is losing on the trading of its stocks.
This will not be another [hold your breath til you die] Valdez deal.
it's in a company's nature to destroy the earth? I'm blaming them for acting irresponsibly. I'm not excusing anyone for any thing.
Saying "I think our system is too broke to fix" is apathy at it's worst.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
And there's a difference between being simply apathetic compared to hoping for change even though I don't think it's realistic, practical or possible.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100617/ap_on_bi_ge/us_bp_s_future
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ ... 8046.story
fuckers, they are so far removed from any type of backlash it just sucks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_spill# ... oil_spills
there has definitely been a precedent for oil spills ... this list is just the largest ... a simple google search and you will see there are at least a dozen significant oil spills a year ...
i also counter your point about BPs cleaning procedure when it is clear that regulations for the oil industry have been washed away by the federal gov'ts ... mainly bush ...
how can you say that BP is not concerned about money but then talke about them going into receivership? ...
So in essence, you, me and everyone else here continues to be a contributor to this destruction. Am I right?