Your opinion about Immigration.

19899101103104129

Comments

  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,878
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    To answer HFD's question further, the length the FBI and others went to to try and get Hilary elected is scary to me. The texts with high level FBI agents attempting to sway the election, to even small things like instructions to not call it an "investigation" because it sounds bad. I don't like any of that, talk about meddling in elections, it is happening right here in front of us but we're only worried about the other side of the world.
    You live in a fantasy world. 
    What fantasy is that? Comey admitted to it in interviews and his book, there are text messages between high level FBI agents saying they won't "let" Trump become president. Comey also said Lynch instructed him not to use the word "investigation" because it sounds bad. Comey admitted to reopening the investigation only because he thought Hillary was a shoe-in and it would look bad for him if he didnt. So what fantasy is it where these people wanted Hilary to win, because that is exactly what happened? 
    Sir,

    Going public TWICE with matters relating to the Clinton email issue/investigation (in which nothing came of it), including days before the election and not going public with the, obviously, more serious investigation into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign basically handed the presidency to Donald Trump, not Hillary Clinton. Case closed.

    538, among others, has great reporting regarding the polling models taking drastic changes in the days after Comey announced he was reopening the investigation 10 days or so before the election. Choosing not to believe that and to, instead, go down the Sean Hannity rabbit hole is the fantasy world you're living in.

    Mistakes were made by Comey and Strock and his chick may have had some bias...however this does NOTHING--ZIP--NADA to change the fact that the actions the FBI took public greatly benefited Trump and greatly damaged Clinton... which completely blows up your fantasy world conspiracy. 

    Not to mention the fact that you have Rudy Guilliani, Trump's own lawyer right now, telling Fox and Friends days before the election, that his sources in the FBI were telling him that they all wanted Trump to win and Hillary to lose. 




    I never disputed that. It was very damaging. 
    But what is also true is that Comey is an open Hilary supporter and has admitted that he re-opened the investigation thinking that there was no possible way that Trump would win. And knowing the impact that it had now he would do it differently. Those are his words, not my beliefs about it. So I don't see how that is a fantasy or a rabbit hole. I never said the investigation didn't hurt Hilary, just that Comey only did it not realizing the damage it would cause.
    The only statement of yours I am unfamiliar with is the last one, and even if true there were still others who stated they won't "let" Trump win.  But that doesn't change the fact on anything Comey said (which is what I believe you were calling the fantasy-rabbit hole). He wanted Hilary to win and would not have opened the investigation if he realized how much damage it would do. His words.
    So you blame Comey because he secretly wanted Clinton to win? That applies to most sane people, so I'm not sure that it's the criticism that you hope it to be. The only material issue is that he took no actions directly to make it more likely that she won, and in fact took actions that made it less likely.

    Also, he is now "openly" a Clinton supporter, but was not during that time period, so hard to call that "open" in that context. 
    I don't think he has even said he is now a Clinton supporter. He has said his wife and daughter's are supporters but that doesn't mean he is/was. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,083
    I’m for deporting all you having this trump/Comey discussion...you know, just for thread integrity purposes of course :)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,502
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    To answer HFD's question further, the length the FBI and others went to to try and get Hilary elected is scary to me. The texts with high level FBI agents attempting to sway the election, to even small things like instructions to not call it an "investigation" because it sounds bad. I don't like any of that, talk about meddling in elections, it is happening right here in front of us but we're only worried about the other side of the world.
    You live in a fantasy world. 
    What fantasy is that? Comey admitted to it in interviews and his book, there are text messages between high level FBI agents saying they won't "let" Trump become president. Comey also said Lynch instructed him not to use the word "investigation" because it sounds bad. Comey admitted to reopening the investigation only because he thought Hillary was a shoe-in and it would look bad for him if he didnt. So what fantasy is it where these people wanted Hilary to win, because that is exactly what happened? 
    Sir,

    Going public TWICE with matters relating to the Clinton email issue/investigation (in which nothing came of it), including days before the election and not going public with the, obviously, more serious investigation into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign basically handed the presidency to Donald Trump, not Hillary Clinton. Case closed.

    538, among others, has great reporting regarding the polling models taking drastic changes in the days after Comey announced he was reopening the investigation 10 days or so before the election. Choosing not to believe that and to, instead, go down the Sean Hannity rabbit hole is the fantasy world you're living in.

    Mistakes were made by Comey and Strock and his chick may have had some bias...however this does NOTHING--ZIP--NADA to change the fact that the actions the FBI took public greatly benefited Trump and greatly damaged Clinton... which completely blows up your fantasy world conspiracy. 

    Not to mention the fact that you have Rudy Guilliani, Trump's own lawyer right now, telling Fox and Friends days before the election, that his sources in the FBI were telling him that they all wanted Trump to win and Hillary to lose. 




    I never disputed that. It was very damaging. 
    But what is also true is that Comey is an open Hilary supporter and has admitted that he re-opened the investigation thinking that there was no possible way that Trump would win. And knowing the impact that it had now he would do it differently. Those are his words, not my beliefs about it. So I don't see how that is a fantasy or a rabbit hole. I never said the investigation didn't hurt Hilary, just that Comey only did it not realizing the damage it would cause.
    The only statement of yours I am unfamiliar with is the last one, and even if true there were still others who stated they won't "let" Trump win.  But that doesn't change the fact on anything Comey said (which is what I believe you were calling the fantasy-rabbit hole). He wanted Hilary to win and would not have opened the investigation if he realized how much damage it would do. His words.
    Sir,
    Jim Comey IS A REPUBLICAN. He has never said he is a Hillary supporter. And he never said he reopened the investing because he thought "there was no possible way" Trump would win. That's a Trump administration talking point. It is not advisable to use Trump administration talking points as facts...because they are usually lies.  Here is good reading on the subject:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/13/james-comey-clinton-investigation-poll-numbers-522958

    Fact-check: Comey didn’t say he reopened Clinton investigation because of poll numbers

    In his book he says he was concerned about making her an illegitimate president by not revealing this to the public. But in hindsight, he did that to Trump by not revealing that investigation. He made big mistakes during that election. He should've just revealed both investigations. But, ultimately, the actions he and the FBI did and did not take publicly directly benefited Trump and likely got him into the White House.
    If the FBI had wanted Hillary to win, they would have let the public know that Russia was interfering in the election with the intent on helping Trump win. That would've been leaked out one way or the other. They didn't do that. The whole argument is nonsense. 

    I'm surprised you didn't know about the Giuliani story. It was a big deal in the weeks leading up to the election....and it flies directly into the face of Trump's narrative that the FBI wanted Hillary to win.
    Thanks for the thorough response.  I actually can't stand Hannity and rarely watch him. I never read Comey's book, I just remember seeing several interviews he did about his book and articles about it as well. My memory may have been wrong on some of the accounts,I thought I remember Comey saying he wouldn't do it again but can't find record of it. Instead in a LA Times article about the book he says he would do it again, so I was probably wrong on that. But many articles and interviews about the book he does say he thought Hilary would win and that may have impacted his decision, that and the integrity/image of the FBI was what made him reopen it. 
    He is also not a republican. He was, but is no longer affiliated with them. He also said in an interview that democrats have to win in 2020  https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/09/politics/james-comey-donald-trump-2020/index.html
    His entire family participated in the rally against Trump in January 2017 while he was still head of FBI. So I think it is safe to say he is not a Trump supporter. 
    Anyway I agree he likely cost Hilary the election, but I don't believe it was intentional and safe to assume he supported Hilary. 

    Talk about rabbit holes, this all started because someone (don't even remember who) called me a Trump lover because I said the news coverage on the caravan seemed like a normal cycle to me without even mentioning Trump. I don't like Trump, I think he is embarrassing as a president. I don't even remember how Comey came into the conversation so probably time to move on from him.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,878
    edited December 2018
    ^
    He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

    I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

    The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

    The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,502
    edited December 2018
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,878
    edited December 2018
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    ^
    Why would you guess that this is not a rare occurrence? 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,502
    ^
    He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

    I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

    The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

    The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

    No, I cannot find anything where he publicly promotes Hilary. But he removed himself as republican by 2016 election I think before the election. And watching several interviews during his book tour, it was clear to me of his distaste for Trump. He's made it known he doesn't like Trump for a while. That was just he latest of interviews and comments I posted. I dont think Comey is worth talking about, I think we'll ljust have to disagree on who we think he wanted to be president in 2016. I can agree he likely cost Hilary the election, I never disputed that.
  • mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,878
    edited December 2018
    mace1229 said:
    ^
    He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

    I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

    The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

    The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

    No, I cannot find anything where he publicly promotes Hilary. But he removed himself as republican by 2016 election I think before the election. And watching several interviews during his book tour, it was clear to me of his distaste for Trump. He's made it known he doesn't like Trump for a while. That was just he latest of interviews and comments I posted. I dont think Comey is worth talking about, I think we'll ljust have to disagree on who we think he wanted to be president in 2016. I can agree he likely cost Hilary the election, I never disputed that.
    Well I stand corrected that he became independent in 2016 but everything else is just hearsay. He obviously NOW has a distaste in his mouth for the man who fired him and has been mocking him publicly for 2 years and, subsequently, is making a mockery of our democracy on a daily basis. What rational human being would not? This does not mean Comey is/was a Hillary supporter and tried to help her win.. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,502
    edited December 2018
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
     
    I knew this was coming.  Surprised it took this long.
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
     
    I knew this was coming.  Surprised it took this long.
    Should we not? Have we lost our humanity? Is the death of a 7 year old in US custody just meh?
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
     
    I knew this was coming.  Surprised it took this long.
    Should we not? Have we lost our humanity? Is the death of a 7 year old in US custody just meh?
     
    I'm pretty sure there were no signs to tell.  I'm also not surprised as you paint the whole US border patrol with a broad stroke.


    You are good at doing that...
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 33,878
    Why are people so sure there were no signs to tell? I don't get how people are just assuming that. If anything, I think the more likely scenario is the child's parents were pleading for help and their cries may have fallen on deaf ears. Nobody really knows. One thing I do know, is this is not a regular occurrence. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    Wobbie said:
    I thought this thread was about immigration? :confused:

    just gonna say, I’d rather hang out with a higher percentage of Mexicans in our country than native borns in the good ol’ US of A.
    Bravo bro bravo 👏 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    mace1229 said:
    ^
    He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

    I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

    The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

    The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

    No, I cannot find anything where he publicly promotes Hilary. But he removed himself as republican by 2016 election I think before the election. And watching several interviews during his book tour, it was clear to me of his distaste for Trump. He's made it known he doesn't like Trump for a while. That was just he latest of interviews and comments I posted. I dont think Comey is worth talking about, I think we'll ljust have to disagree on who we think he wanted to be president in 2016. I can agree he likely cost Hilary the election, I never disputed that.
    It’s best if you just admitted you are wrong all you have been saying is excuses you sound like the Baffoon, Comey helping HRC that’s laughable..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    I blame this government for the death of 7 yr old ..this administration is evil in all matters there’s nothing anyone can’t point too that you can classify as humanitarian go ahead look for it ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,059
    I blame this government for the death of 7 yr old ..this administration is evil in all matters there’s nothing anyone can’t point too that you can classify as humanitarian go ahead look for it ..
    I understand your hatred for trump et al, jose, but it's a little premature to blame the death of this girl on them. we don't know many facts about this yet. 
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    I blame this government for the death of 7 yr old ..this administration is evil in all matters there’s nothing anyone can’t point too that you can classify as humanitarian go ahead look for it ..
    I understand your hatred for trump et al, jose, but it's a little premature to blame the death of this girl on them. we don't know many facts about this yet. 
    I know I’m just venting most likely we won’t find out all the info , it’s totally insane what has happened with the immigration issue..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Why are people so sure there were no signs to tell? I don't get how people are just assuming that. If anything, I think the more likely scenario is the child's parents were pleading for help and their cries may have fallen on deaf ears. Nobody really knows. One thing I do know, is this is not a regular occurrence. 
    If that is the case and can be proven I would think that things need to change even more.

    Usually the people that die are out in the desert and the border patrol finds them before it's too late.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,502
    edited December 2018
    mace1229 said:
    ^
    He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

    I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

    The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

    The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

    No, I cannot find anything where he publicly promotes Hilary. But he removed himself as republican by 2016 election I think before the election. And watching several interviews during his book tour, it was clear to me of his distaste for Trump. He's made it known he doesn't like Trump for a while. That was just he latest of interviews and comments I posted. I dont think Comey is worth talking about, I think we'll ljust have to disagree on who we think he wanted to be president in 2016. I can agree he likely cost Hilary the election, I never disputed that.
    It’s best if you just admitted you are wrong all you have been saying is excuses you sound like the Baffoon, Comey helping HRC that’s laughable..
    Thanks. I'll take that with a grain of salt coming from someone who calls anyone who disagrees with them a Trump lover without knowing any facts though.
    And I already admitted I overstated what I meant to say and some of the facts I assumed were wrong.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    ^
    He was a republican for probably over 30 years up until LAST year. He was a republican during the time in question. Bravo to him for putting his country over his corrupt political party.

    I said his wife and daughters supported Hillary. That does not mean he is/was a supporter. There is no evidence of Comey being a Hillary supporter.

    The article you're talking about regarding what he wants to happen in 2020 was from last week. Come on, dude. We are talking about events from two and a half years ago. Of course NOW he wants democrats to win in 2020. Republicans have done nothing but demonize him since Trump fired him. And he is, by all accounts, a sane person who sees the kind of president Trump has been.

    The point is you cannot find any evidence that he was a Hillary supporter and wanted her to win in 2016. All of his public actions helped Donald Trump.

    No, I cannot find anything where he publicly promotes Hilary. But he removed himself as republican by 2016 election I think before the election. And watching several interviews during his book tour, it was clear to me of his distaste for Trump. He's made it known he doesn't like Trump for a while. That was just he latest of interviews and comments I posted. I dont think Comey is worth talking about, I think we'll ljust have to disagree on who we think he wanted to be president in 2016. I can agree he likely cost Hilary the election, I never disputed that.
    It’s best if you just admitted you are wrong all you have been saying is excuses you sound like the Baffoon, Comey helping HRC that’s laughable..
    Thanks. I'll take that with a grain of salt coming from someone who calls anyone who disagrees with them a Trump lover without knowing any facts though.
    And I already admitted I overstated what I meant to say and some of the facts I assumed were wrong.
    C’mon you know deep down you have a very soft spot for the Baffoon lol 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
     
    I knew this was coming.  Surprised it took this long.
    Should we not? Have we lost our humanity? Is the death of a 7 year old in US custody just meh?
     
    I'm pretty sure there were no signs to tell.  I'm also not surprised as you paint the whole US border patrol with a broad stroke.


    You are good at doing that...


    How did I paint the US border patrol with a broad stroke? Typical to make an assumption without any facts.

    My criticism is of the Team Trump Treason administration and their politicizing of the issue rather than addressing it. It should be a matter of apprehension policy to conduct a routine basic medical assessment of detainees as part of the process. Ask a few basic questions, how long have you been in the desert? When was the last time you ate? Drank water? How much? Check their vitals. Then offer them MREs and bottled water and one of those reflective blankets. Secure them for the agent's safety. Ask for ID, check for weapons, etc. Then do a basic health assessment. If someone is distressed, hasn't eaten in a few days, hasn't had water, keep an eye on them and maybe they get evacuated to an ER and treated before they're detained, particularly a 7 year old. Any other competent administration would be addressing this issue on multiple fronts, with multiple cabinet level departments involved, inclusive of the State Department to mitigate the issue as they worked with congress to address the longer term immigration issues. Team Trump Treason? Doesn't care for anything but his fucking wall. What comes next? Let the bodies stack up at the base of the wall until they can climb up and drop over? Its not rocket science and every president from Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 and Obama would show at least some modicum of respect and compassion for these people.

    I'm still proud to live in a country that has the ACLU to sue the government for the actions of the border patrol who, "have a history of cruelty with how they handle migrants." Speaking of your "broad brush."

    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,502
    edited December 2018
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
     
    I knew this was coming.  Surprised it took this long.
    Should we not? Have we lost our humanity? Is the death of a 7 year old in US custody just meh?
     
    I'm pretty sure there were no signs to tell.  I'm also not surprised as you paint the whole US border patrol with a broad stroke.


    You are good at doing that...


    How did I paint the US border patrol with a broad stroke? Typical to make an assumption without any facts.

    My criticism is of the Team Trump Treason administration and their politicizing of the issue rather than addressing it. It should be a matter of apprehension policy to conduct a routine basic medical assessment of detainees as part of the process. Ask a few basic questions, how long have you been in the desert? When was the last time you ate? Drank water? How much? Check their vitals. Then offer them MREs and bottled water and one of those reflective blankets. Secure them for the agent's safety. Ask for ID, check for weapons, etc. Then do a basic health assessment. If someone is distressed, hasn't eaten in a few days, hasn't had water, keep an eye on them and maybe they get evacuated to an ER and treated before they're detained, particularly a 7 year old. Any other competent administration would be addressing this issue on multiple fronts, with multiple cabinet level departments involved, inclusive of the State Department to mitigate the issue as they worked with congress to address the longer term immigration issues. Team Trump Treason? Doesn't care for anything but his fucking wall. What comes next? Let the bodies stack up at the base of the wall until they can climb up and drop over? Its not rocket science and every president from Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 and Obama would show at least some modicum of respect and compassion for these people.

    I'm still proud to live in a country that has the ACLU to sue the government for the actions of the border patrol who, "have a history of cruelty with how they handle migrants." Speaking of your "broad brush."

    But how do you do that? This was  small facility that had a record number of apprehensions. It does not seem they were equipped to handle such a large number of people at once, and that is unfortunately the result. Even if there was a basic health exam, it could take days to process 400+ people, and when someone is dead in 8 hours that is very difficult to treat.
    We just cant be expected to have unlimited resources and space at every point on the border, that just isn't possible. But that is what would be needed to prevent this from ever happening again. So as long as large groups of people cross in dangerous terrain, this will always happen. As previously mentioned they are found dead more often than they are found and die a few hours later. And as I said before, encouraging this behavior will create more cases like this. This is nothing new, this has nothing to do with Trump. People have died crossing the boarder for many years.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Did this ever happen under previous Administrations? 

    https://apple.news/A3fMXpYoGSzmqDEXnL9bFiQ
    That is a sad story and I hope it never happens. But my guess is it probably isn't that rare. And one of the big reasons I am against promoting mass immigration like this. The article doesn't give many details, other than she was in custody for about 8 hours until she died and they they had a record number in custody for a small facility. She may not have even been showing sings of serious illness until it was too late. When you have hundreds in custody in places that are meant to house just a few dozen this will continue to happen and conditions will be horrible. The article says that facility received a record number of 227 that day and was "Extremely large" for their standards. Even if water was available, 8 hours is not that long to go without a medical exam when you are not equipped for that number of people, and was probably already beyond the point of needing just water at that point.
    I am for granting asylum to those who need it, but this caravan is not the right way to do it. Conditions in Mexico are horrible where they are being housed and I bet disease is rampant there. And y biggest concern is if this caravan is encouraged the numbers will probably grow next time and cases like this will be more common.
    For how many weeks/months were told of the invasion? And we’re supposed to be the “greatest” nation on earth? I’m embarrassed by the ineptitude you helped elect.
    Her death had absolutely zero to do with providing for the caravan. If the US brought In-In-Out, gatorade and put them in a luxury hotel to everyojn in the caravan she'd still be dead. This was a remote desert in NM several hundred miles away from the caravan, not equipped for large people when they had nearly 400 caught in 2 days, a record high. I couldn't find how many it was built to hold, but they called this an "extremely high" number and say this facility was built to house individuals, not multiple families.
    So how would preparing for the caravan have prevented this? It would do nothing for that. And promoting the idea that if you just show up you get in will only encourage wreckless attempts like this and will have the same result. We can't be expected to build stations to house thousands across the entire boarder, and provide food water and medical attention to thousands that show up in even remote areas. That is just unrealistic.  This is the danger of promoting large groups like this, and there is no way to prepare for it and sustain it for the long term. 
    If she was one of 20 who were detained she may be alive. But being 1 of 400 who were detained it isn't surprising. Now if she had obvious signs of a serious medical conditions that were made known and went untreated, that would be a different story. None of that is known at the time, so I am going on the assumption that the first physical signs were the seizures, and by then it was too late.
    How about the US provide a minimum of a health assessment, knowing that the people coming to the border have most likely endured a physically demanding environment and experience, as a first reaction to the encounter rather than cuffing and detaining them? Is that beyond our capabilities?
     
    I knew this was coming.  Surprised it took this long.
    Should we not? Have we lost our humanity? Is the death of a 7 year old in US custody just meh?
     
    I'm pretty sure there were no signs to tell.  I'm also not surprised as you paint the whole US border patrol with a broad stroke.


    You are good at doing that...


    How did I paint the US border patrol with a broad stroke? Typical to make an assumption without any facts.

    My criticism is of the Team Trump Treason administration and their politicizing of the issue rather than addressing it. It should be a matter of apprehension policy to conduct a routine basic medical assessment of detainees as part of the process. Ask a few basic questions, how long have you been in the desert? When was the last time you ate? Drank water? How much? Check their vitals. Then offer them MREs and bottled water and one of those reflective blankets. Secure them for the agent's safety. Ask for ID, check for weapons, etc. Then do a basic health assessment. If someone is distressed, hasn't eaten in a few days, hasn't had water, keep an eye on them and maybe they get evacuated to an ER and treated before they're detained, particularly a 7 year old. Any other competent administration would be addressing this issue on multiple fronts, with multiple cabinet level departments involved, inclusive of the State Department to mitigate the issue as they worked with congress to address the longer term immigration issues. Team Trump Treason? Doesn't care for anything but his fucking wall. What comes next? Let the bodies stack up at the base of the wall until they can climb up and drop over? Its not rocket science and every president from Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2 and Obama would show at least some modicum of respect and compassion for these people.

    I'm still proud to live in a country that has the ACLU to sue the government for the actions of the border patrol who, "have a history of cruelty with how they handle migrants." Speaking of your "broad brush."

    But how do you do that? This was  small facility that had a record number of apprehensions. It does not seem they were equipped to handle such a large number of people at once, and that is unfortunately the result. Even if there was a basic health exam, it could take days to process 400+ people, and when someone is dead in 8 hours that is very difficult to treat.
    We just cant be expected to have unlimited resources and space at every point on the border, that just isn't possible. But that is what would be needed to prevent this from ever happening again. So as long as large groups of people cross in dangerous terrain, this will always happen. As previously mentioned they are found dead more often than they are found and die a few hours later. And as I said before, encouraging this behavior will create more cases like this. This is nothing new, this has nothing to do with Trump. People have died crossing the boarder for many years.


    Train border patrol agents to have a minimum of first aid training or have one member of the team be trained as such, if they're not already. Stop making excuses and making it sound as if its an insurmountable problem. Ask Doctors Without Borders to provide services? Print the forms migrants are asked to sign in Spanish? The father signed a "health form" but it was in English and he doesn't read English. There, I gave you three solutions. Seems your solution is throw your hands in the air and say we can't do anything? What solutions, other than stop encouraging them, would you offer?

    How many have died in custody previously and how many children were separated from their parents, over 15,000 children now? Team trump Treason's lack of compassion and treatment of migrants is certainly "new."

    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,332
    edited December 2018
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    Disgraceful why is it only Republicans come off as assholes they are all literally assholes every single one 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,179
    There’s about 140 children that will spend Xmas in American cages , this is 2018 am I correct ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
Sign In or Register to comment.