14 years and counting...

Meltdown99

dignin said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

You fail to see it because you fail to do the research to come up with an educated answer. Throughout every thread related to immigration the info has been been provided.

I fully know what's going on ... our government hand out millions upon ,millions to non taxpayers/non Canadians while veterans am\nd homeless people continue to struggle...YOU FAIL TO SEE HOW FUCKED UP OUR GOVERNMENT IS...you want fucking immigrants, first prioritize Canadian problems and fix them first...

HughFreakingDillon

One of the strongest economic arguments in favour of taking in refugees is that it worked the last time. Canada took in some 60,000 Vietnamese “boat people” starting in 1979, and research suggests they have been an economic success story.

According to Ryerson University professor Morton Beiser’s 1999 book “Strangers at the Gate,” the Vietnamese boat people arrived with little English or French, no assets and inappropriate job skills for Canada’s economy.

But within a decade of their arrival, the former boat people had an unemployment rate 2.3 percentage points lower than Canada as a whole, and relied less heavily on social assistance than the general population. One in five had started their own business.

HughFreakingDillon

Beyond the question of refugees, a growing number of experts say Canada will have to increase the number of immigrants it takes in to offset an aging population and a low birth rate.

The Conference Board of Canada estimated last year that the country will have to raise the number of immigrants arriving annually to 350,000 within the next 20 years, from around 250,000 a year today.

“Without immigrants, Canada faces labour shortages, a smaller tax base, and increased strain on our medical system and pension funds,” Conference Board research associate Kareem El-Assal wrote.

“Indeed, in the absence of high immigration levels, Canada’s population will shrink, our economy will suffer, and our standard of living will decline.

HughFreakingDillon

is that enough?

Meltdown99

Meltdown99 said:

dignin said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

You fail to see it because you fail to do the research to come up with an educated answer. Throughout every thread related to immigration the info has been been provided.

I fully know what's going on ... our government hand out millions upon ,millions to non taxpayers/non Canadians while veterans am\nd homeless people continue to struggle...YOU FAIL TO SEE HOW FUCKED UP OUR GOVERNMENT IS...you want fucking immigrants, first prioritize Canadian problems and fix them first...

And fix the BS that goes on with our First Nations people's ... Trudeau is a classic bullshitter ... the immigration minister should be a First Nations MP in every government.

PJ_Soul

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Ledbetterman, If I were you I'd never take what meltdown says as an informed opinion. He has no real idea of how immigrants benefit the economy at the end of the day, and therefore just assumes they don't by looking at selective info from a biased position. Once he finds enough info to make it look like his preconceived notion is correct, he stops, and presents his conclusions in a way that makes some think it's an informed opinion.

Ledbetterman10

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

https://www.cgdev.org/blog/real-economic-cost-accepting-refugees

This was useful. Thanks.

Well no wonder Trump is against refugees if their contributions don't come to fruition until 8 years after their arrival.

Ledbetterman10

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Well you're not exactly adding much here are you? At least he provided something and left it up to me to give a shit or not to follow-up. And then HughFreakinDillion linked to a study about it that was a good enough follow-up for me.

Yikes.

PJ_Soul

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

https://www.cgdev.org/blog/real-economic-cost-accepting-refugees

This was useful. Thanks.

Well no wonder Trump is against refugees if their contributions don't come to fruition until 8 years after their arrival.

Yeah, and no wonder he is against children - it's takes them at least 18 years for their contributions to come to fruition!

HughFreakingDillon

Meltdown99 said:

dignin said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

You fail to see it because you fail to do the research to come up with an educated answer. Throughout every thread related to immigration the info has been been provided.

I fully know what's going on ... our government hand out millions upon ,millions to non taxpayers/non Canadians while veterans am\nd homeless people continue to struggle...YOU FAIL TO SEE HOW FUCKED UP OUR GOVERNMENT IS...you want fucking immigrants, first prioritize Canadian problems and fix them first...

no, it seems you don't know what's going on. it has been proven time and again that immigrants and refugees actually create a boon to the economy, which means more money for government services and aid, which in turn gives them more money to help the people here. 

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

https://www.cgdev.org/blog/real-economic-cost-accepting-refugees

This was useful. Thanks.

Well no wonder Trump is against refugees if their contributions don't come to fruition until 8 years after their arrival.

yes, anything beyond his immediate results plan isn't going to work for him or his supporters. 

Ledbetterman10

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Ledbetterman, If I were you I'd never take what meltdown says as an informed opinion. He has no real idea of how immigrants benefit the economy at the end of the day, and therefore just assumes they don't by looking at selective info from a biased position. Once he finds enough info to make it look like his preconceived notion is correct, he stops, and presents his conclusions in a way that makes some think it's an informed opinion.

That's fair enough. After all, he didn't exactly have anything to back up his numbers. And yet, when HughFreakinDillion linked to a study that seems to be from credible source, I took THAT with a grain of salt. Why? Well I hate to admit it, but maybe I'm looking to be convinced that someone like Meltdown is right about immigration. I guess I'm just on the conservative side of the fence on this immigration thing.

PJ_Soul

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Ledbetterman, If I were you I'd never take what meltdown says as an informed opinion. He has no real idea of how immigrants benefit the economy at the end of the day, and therefore just assumes they don't by looking at selective info from a biased position. Once he finds enough info to make it look like his preconceived notion is correct, he stops, and presents his conclusions in a way that makes some think it's an informed opinion.

That's fair enough. After all, he didn't exactly have anything to back up his numbers. And yet, when HughFreakinDillion linked to a study that seems to be from credible source, I took THAT with a grain of salt. Why? Well I hate to admit it, but maybe I'm looking to be convinced of that someone like Meltdown is right about immigration. I guess I'm just on the conservative side of the fence on this immigration thing.

It's really just the difference between a narrow view and wide view... I think we all know which view is the best one.

Ledbetterman10

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Ledbetterman, If I were you I'd never take what meltdown says as an informed opinion. He has no real idea of how immigrants benefit the economy at the end of the day, and therefore just assumes they don't by looking at selective info from a biased position. Once he finds enough info to make it look like his preconceived notion is correct, he stops, and presents his conclusions in a way that makes some think it's an informed opinion.

That's fair enough. After all, he didn't exactly have anything to back up his numbers. And yet, when HughFreakinDillion linked to a study that seems to be from credible source, I took THAT with a grain of salt. Why? Well I hate to admit it, but maybe I'm looking to be convinced of that someone like Meltdown is right about immigration. I guess I'm just on the conservative side of the fence on this immigration thing.

It's really just the difference between a narrow view and wide view... I think we all know which view is the best one.

I just hate extremes. The illegal immigration extremes are....

Conservative: GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!
Liberal: We're all immigrants! Don't be a hypocrite.

I think the answers fall someone where in the middle.

Meltdown99

Foreign buyers tax on trial — but B.C. claims crisis called for action

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/foreign-buyer-tax-housing-vancouver-1.4721597

Non citizens think they are entitled to the same rules ...

PJ_Soul

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Ledbetterman, If I were you I'd never take what meltdown says as an informed opinion. He has no real idea of how immigrants benefit the economy at the end of the day, and therefore just assumes they don't by looking at selective info from a biased position. Once he finds enough info to make it look like his preconceived notion is correct, he stops, and presents his conclusions in a way that makes some think it's an informed opinion.

That's fair enough. After all, he didn't exactly have anything to back up his numbers. And yet, when HughFreakinDillion linked to a study that seems to be from credible source, I took THAT with a grain of salt. Why? Well I hate to admit it, but maybe I'm looking to be convinced of that someone like Meltdown is right about immigration. I guess I'm just on the conservative side of the fence on this immigration thing.

It's really just the difference between a narrow view and wide view... I think we all know which view is the best one.

I just hate extremes. The illegal immigration extremes are....

Conservative: GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!
Liberal: We're all immigrants! Don't be a hypocrite.

I think the answers fall someone where in the middle.

I agree. I also think that people need to maintain a true sense of humanity and empathy when considering the issue though, and it seems to me that Conservatives have almost or entirely dropped that idea. I think a lot of people are more and more forgetting to think of these people as actual human beings instead of just faceless entities being spoken of during a political debate. They are more and more being referred to in ways that allow people to forget about the complexity of their lives, what many of them are trying to escape (as evidenced by the unbelievable risks they are willing to take to enter the US or Canada or wherever). Trump is now using words like "infestation" when speaking of these folks (remind you of anything??). Also, I think people who are very anti-immigrant/refugee/asylum seeker tend to take all their complaints and try to simplify them by directing their focus on one big thing: immigrants. When in fact, their complaints stem from extremely complex issues that have tentacles spreading out across so many different issues, so many actions or inactions by the government, etc. But that takes up too much mental energy to work out and then express to others. People are too busy to truly research all that and really understand it. So they zero in on the immigrants because it's simple, they're easy to identify, it involves an "other" - an us vs. them, which people really get off on when they're disgruntled about something... And real live human beings suffer for it in a very real way.
Most of the politicians actually know that there is a middle ground. Unfortunately, Trump and all his supporters do not. And everyone else is starting to feel like they are being forced to pick a side on the issue, which just fuels this problem of extremes that you mention. It's a terrible situation... But I know which side of this fence is feeding the flames, and it ain't people who have open arms. Those with open arms are open to a middle ground - their more extreme expressions are simply a knee-jerk reaction to what is true hardship and suffering being inflicted upon people. The conservative extremists, on the other hand, are far less likely to soften, because they've already pinned their woes on their target.

HughFreakingDillon

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Ledbetterman, If I were you I'd never take what meltdown says as an informed opinion. He has no real idea of how immigrants benefit the economy at the end of the day, and therefore just assumes they don't by looking at selective info from a biased position. Once he finds enough info to make it look like his preconceived notion is correct, he stops, and presents his conclusions in a way that makes some think it's an informed opinion.

That's fair enough. After all, he didn't exactly have anything to back up his numbers. And yet, when HughFreakinDillion linked to a study that seems to be from credible source, I took THAT with a grain of salt. Why? Well I hate to admit it, but maybe I'm looking to be convinced that someone like Meltdown is right about immigration. I guess I'm just on the conservative side of the fence on this immigration thing.

there's nothing wrong with taking EVERYTHING with a grain of salt, no matter who posts it. we all have biases. it's being aware of them (which you are) when we seek information that is the key. 

something I've caught myself doing over the last while is rewording my google searches so it is as unbiased a question as possible, so I don't just get confirmation bias results. reframing it from "does immigration help/hurt the economy" to "how does immigration affect the economy". 

Meltdown99

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

Yeah this was the answer I kinda looking for. I think it's a stress on the American (or in this case, Canadian) government to provide for these asylum seekers. It doesn't seem like it helps the economy like HFD has suggested it does.

Wait? Instead of doing a little research to find some facts you settle for "the answer I kinda looking for", from a guy providing an uniformed opinion? 

Yikes.

Ledbetterman, If I were you I'd never take what meltdown says as an informed opinion. He has no real idea of how immigrants benefit the economy at the end of the day, and therefore just assumes they don't by looking at selective info from a biased position. Once he finds enough info to make it look like his preconceived notion is correct, he stops, and presents his conclusions in a way that makes some think it's an informed opinion.

That's fair enough. After all, he didn't exactly have anything to back up his numbers. And yet, when HughFreakinDillion linked to a study that seems to be from credible source, I took THAT with a grain of salt. Why? Well I hate to admit it, but maybe I'm looking to be convinced of that someone like Meltdown is right about immigration. I guess I'm just on the conservative side of the fence on this immigration thing.

It's really just the difference between a narrow view and wide view... I think we all know which view is the best one.

I just hate extremes. The illegal immigration extremes are....

Conservative: GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!
Liberal: We're all immigrants! Don't be a hypocrite.

I think the answers fall someone where in the middle.

I want our domestic problems addressed ... truth is this is stolen land and the immigrants refuse to treat First Nation people properly....

rgambs

Meltdown99 said:

dignin said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

You fail to see it because you fail to do the research to come up with an educated answer. Throughout every thread related to immigration the info has been been provided.

I fully know what's going on ... our government hand out millions upon ,millions to non taxpayers/non Canadians while veterans am\nd homeless people continue to struggle...YOU FAIL TO SEE HOW FUCKED UP OUR GOVERNMENT IS...you want fucking immigrants, first prioritize Canadian problems and fix them first...

RPut yourself in the mindframe of someone from an extremely impoverished and dangerous place who risks their life to make it to a wonderful place you hear about every day where everyone eats and drives and is safe.  A glorious place of freedom where everyone has a chance to make their childrens' lives better...
Now read your posts (and this one ^^ in particular) back to yourself and try to see how bitter, petty, privileged, and small you would sound from that perspective.

Meltdown99

rgambs said:

Meltdown99 said:

dignin said:

Meltdown99 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

Toronto faces having to close community centres, cancel programs to house migrant tide from U.S.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-faces-having-to-close-community-centres-cancel-programs-to-house-migrant-tide-from-u-s?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1530021674

Nah there no price to pay for illegal migrants...

There always will be, but in the end the benefit outweighs it, if it's done right. why are they jamming all of these people in one of the most densely populated cities in canada?

What's the benefit? I'm asking this seriously because I really don't know the answer.

economically. 

You'll have to excuse my ignorance but again, I'm not following you. How do asylum seekers and refugees help the economy?

And I made a point here to say "asylum seekers and refugees" because that's what the article says. Meltdown99, who posted the article, referred to it as illegal immigration, which is different.

I fail to see how they help the economy?  The Ontario government spends around 11000 per child to educate, Many of the asylum seeker have more than 3 kids ... 3 kids alone is $33000/ year in services ... these asylum seekers will never pay that amount of tax, not the mention the extra strain on our government run health care.

You fail to see it because you fail to do the research to come up with an educated answer. Throughout every thread related to immigration the info has been been provided.

I fully know what's going on ... our government hand out millions upon ,millions to non taxpayers/non Canadians while veterans am\nd homeless people continue to struggle...YOU FAIL TO SEE HOW FUCKED UP OUR GOVERNMENT IS...you want fucking immigrants, first prioritize Canadian problems and fix them first...

RPut yourself in the mindframe of someone from an extremely impoverished and dangerous place who risks their life to make it to a wonderful place you hear about every day where everyone eats and drives and is safe.  A glorious place of freedom where everyone has a chance to make their childrens' lives better...
Now read your posts (and this one ^^ in particular) back to yourself and try to see how bitter, petty, and small you sound.

Yes, it also took sacrifices of many generations to get Canada to the point to where it is.  Including many who fought in world wars to get to where we are. "Mindframe of someone from an extremely impoverished", this describes many First Nation reserves ... how is that fair?  The European conquerers continue to keep them impoverished while they continue to bring in aasylum seekers who are treated better than our First Nations.  Our First Nations people should start claiming asylum.