14 years and counting...

Halifax2TheMax

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

Halifax2TheMax

Here's a snap shot of the differences in immigration policy. One mainly relies on shutting down legal paths to immigration and the other makes accommodations based on reality and real world, right now situations. Will either end migration or immigration to the US, legal or illegal? No. But one side attempts to address it and gain control of the situation by knowing who is in the country, a concern raised, opening pathways for legal immigration while toughening the border controls and penalties for illegal crossings.

Approximately 4% of the US employed labor force are illegal immigrants. The US economy would struggle, if not collapse, without them.

A year or so old but still relevant background, particularly the charts, links and graphs within.

Key facts about U.S. immigration policies and Biden’s proposed changes | Pew Research Center

Out of My Mind and Time

Huh, how about that.

Halifax2TheMax

Out of My Mind and Time said:

Huh, how about that.

Wow, you follow the Border Patrol on "X?" Wow, some hobby. Why didn't their X'er socials manager tag POTUS or the Brandon Crime Family campaign. Almost seems like another Facetard misinformation meme. Weird. But hey, enjoy your "follow."

tbergs

Out of My Mind and Time said:

Huh, how about that.

Huh, the head of the union is Brandon Judd. Let's go Brandon? I wonder if he understands presidential actions are temporary, but legislation and policy are long term. Biden shutting the border today, doesn't make people magically vanish so we can open it in a month. It's punting it down the line.

I wonder if he also cares that Biden has done more to address immigration (more than 500 executive actions) than the previous administration. Obviously not all have been successful which is why the bipartisan bill for overhaul of immigration was so important, but you know, politics.

cincybearcat

tbergs said:

Out of My Mind and Time said:

Huh, how about that.

Huh, the head of the union is Brandon Judd. Let's go Brandon? I wonder if he understands presidential actions are temporary, but legislation and policy are long term. Biden shutting the border today, doesn't make people magically vanish so we can open it in a month. It's punting it down the line.

I wonder if he also cares that Biden has done more to address immigration (more than 500 executive actions) than the previous administration. Obviously not all have been successful which is why the bipartisan bill for overhaul of immigration was so important, but you know, politics.

I was going to say, touting the # of executive action Biden has used on immigration and the effect they've had is not really a ringing endorsement for him to be the one to fix it.  

Heck he and the dems would have never agreed to what they finally did.  Their policies have proven to be poor in dealing with the current situation.  So I do not understand why the GOP threw them a bone by not moving forward and protecting our borders and claiming victory.  

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

I am. It’s also possible at the same time to be critical of the ones who reassured there was no problem. Waiting to address it until funding for more important issues to them was needed doesn’t scream the best interests of the people to me. I’m glad you’re cool with being deceived, I am not. If you can’t admit our border has never been more vulnerable, I don’t know what to say. If you also choose to believe every issue facing our country is the fault of one party, go for it, that’s clearly the ideology we need more of. 

Sorry the ability to criticize both parties upsets you, to me it’s logical. 

cincybearcat

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

I am. It’s also possible at the same time to be critical of the ones who reassured there was no problem. Waiting to address it until funding for more important issues to them was needed doesn’t scream the best interests of the people to me. I’m glad you’re cool with being deceived, I am not. If you can’t admit our border has never been more vulnerable, I don’t know what to say. If you also choose to believe every issue facing our country is the fault of one party, go for it, that’s clearly the ideology we need more of. 

Sorry the ability to criticize both parties upsets you, to me it’s logical. 

People are willing to ignore everything else just because the GOP finally "won" and then decided to let trump have the victory instead of the american people.  

The Juggler

Be mad at both parties then. But right now. Right at this very moment there is bi-partisan legislation that will significantly help the issue. And one party is telling you they do not care. They will not do anything solely because they want the problem to get worse because they think that will help Trump avoid prison and become president again. 

cincybearcat

The Juggler said:

Be mad at both parties then. But right now. Right at this very moment there is bi-partisan legislation that will significantly help the issue. And one party is telling you they do not care. They will not do anything solely because they want the problem to get worse because they think that will help Trump avoid prison and become president again. 

This is a fact. 

josevolution

https://www.threads.net/@bidenharrishq/post/C38kV_VvySb/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Nobody knows the languages they speak languages nobody knows 😂😂 this is who the dude that got fact checked by Kat wants as president 😂😂

FiveBelow

The Juggler said:

Be mad at both parties then. But right now. Right at this very moment there is bi-partisan legislation that will significantly help the issue. And one party is telling you they do not care. They will not do anything solely because they want the problem to get worse because they think that will help Trump avoid prison and become president again. 

I agree, but also refuse to ignore the other party seemingly not caring prior to Ukraine/Israel funding running low. Being held hostage by our own government is fantastic! Good thing we'll have fresh faces in November to see if they can get things back to pre '16 normal...oh wait.

Halifax2TheMax

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

I am. It’s also possible at the same time to be critical of the ones who reassured there was no problem. Waiting to address it until funding for more important issues to them was needed doesn’t scream the best interests of the people to me. I’m glad you’re cool with being deceived, I am not. If you can’t admit our border has never been more vulnerable, I don’t know what to say. If you also choose to believe every issue facing our country is the fault of one party, go for it, that’s clearly the ideology we need more of. 

Sorry the ability to criticize both parties upsets you, to me it’s logical. 

I'm mad at one party because the border issue has been attempted to be resolved or solutioned, not "solved" in the absence of a Berlin Wall with armed guards and shoot to kill orders, lets be realistic, by the dems when they had the White House or Congress. Repubs had both and could have passed legislation and didn't. Obama had specific proposals the repubs wouldn't even let it come to a vote and if they did, shot it down. Brandon has tried to do the same and had a bi-partisan deal worked out. The last time there was major immigration reform legislation was 1986. Fucking 1986. To the bold, who reassured us "there was no problem?' Can you link to a quote, article, valid reporting to such nonsense?

To the second bold, so you're pissed the first attempt was tied to foreign aid and not a stand alone immigration reform bill? And yet when the dems offered it up without the aide to Ukraine and Israel and POOTWH's gimp said no, you're still blaming both sides? Seems logical.

One side talks about it and tries to solution it. The other side just talks about it. Its not a "same-same" or "both sides." 

Maybe you can list or identify specifically which of Brandon's EOs have contributed to the issue and why so?

I'm not worried about or afraid of the "other" coming across the border and I don't consider our border to be "open." It may very well not even be in my top 10 concerns of the challenges facing 'Murica.

The Juggler

FiveBelow said:

The Juggler said:

Be mad at both parties then. But right now. Right at this very moment there is bi-partisan legislation that will significantly help the issue. And one party is telling you they do not care. They will not do anything solely because they want the problem to get worse because they think that will help Trump avoid prison and become president again. 

I agree, but also refuse to ignore the other party seemingly not caring prior to Ukraine/Israel funding running low. Being held hostage by our own government is fantastic! Good thing we'll have fresh faces in November to see if they can get things back to pre '16 normal...oh wait.

That's fine. What's in the past is in the past.  It's just really frustrating that there is bi-partisan legislation on the table for the first time in I don't even know how long....yet the maga wing of the republican party (which now runs that party) simply refuses to do anything. They are hijacking the border issue simply to help Trump stay out of jail...yet all their supporters don't seem to care or even recognize what is happening. 

Here's the thing: Immigration is the issue maga claims to care about the most. They do not shut up about it. Can you imagine if the democrats did the same thing for an issue front and center to them like gun control or abortion? No, neither can I. That's the main difference here. 

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

I am. It’s also possible at the same time to be critical of the ones who reassured there was no problem. Waiting to address it until funding for more important issues to them was needed doesn’t scream the best interests of the people to me. I’m glad you’re cool with being deceived, I am not. If you can’t admit our border has never been more vulnerable, I don’t know what to say. If you also choose to believe every issue facing our country is the fault of one party, go for it, that’s clearly the ideology we need more of. 

Sorry the ability to criticize both parties upsets you, to me it’s logical. 

I'm mad at one party because the border issue has been attempted to be resolved or solutioned, not "solved" in the absence of a Berlin Wall with armed guards and shoot to kill orders, lets be realistic, by the dems when they had the White House or Congress. Repubs had both and could have passed legislation and didn't. Obama had specific proposals the repubs wouldn't even let it come to a vote and if they did, shot it down. Brandon has tried to do the same and had a bi-partisan deal worked out. The last time there was major immigration reform legislation was 1986. Fucking 1986. To the bold, who reassured us "there was no problem?' Can you link to a quote, article, valid reporting to such nonsense?

To the second bold, so you're pissed the first attempt was tied to foreign aid and not a stand alone immigration reform bill? And yet when the dems offered it up without the aide to Ukraine and Israel and POOTWH's gimp said no, you're still blaming both sides? Seems logical.

One side talks about it and tries to solution it. The other side just talks about it. Its not a "same-same" or "both sides." 

Maybe you can list or identify specifically which of Brandon's EOs have contributed to the issue and why so?

I'm not worried about or afraid of the "other" coming across the border and I don't consider our border to be "open." It may very well not even be in my top 10 concerns of the challenges facing 'Murica.

Pretty sure Mayorkas stated multiple times our borders were secure, I guess his/your definition was just different than those who were on the ground saying otherwise. The border has never been this overwhelmed, ever. Policy got us here, now it's being held up for political reasons. Both are true, and I’m not happy with either. You can make this about race all you want, you're just following the playbook. You realize it only took 19 terrorists to carry out 9/11, right? I'd be at the least a little concerned, but that's just me.

tbergs

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

I am. It’s also possible at the same time to be critical of the ones who reassured there was no problem. Waiting to address it until funding for more important issues to them was needed doesn’t scream the best interests of the people to me. I’m glad you’re cool with being deceived, I am not. If you can’t admit our border has never been more vulnerable, I don’t know what to say. If you also choose to believe every issue facing our country is the fault of one party, go for it, that’s clearly the ideology we need more of. 

Sorry the ability to criticize both parties upsets you, to me it’s logical. 

I'm mad at one party because the border issue has been attempted to be resolved or solutioned, not "solved" in the absence of a Berlin Wall with armed guards and shoot to kill orders, lets be realistic, by the dems when they had the White House or Congress. Repubs had both and could have passed legislation and didn't. Obama had specific proposals the repubs wouldn't even let it come to a vote and if they did, shot it down. Brandon has tried to do the same and had a bi-partisan deal worked out. The last time there was major immigration reform legislation was 1986. Fucking 1986. To the bold, who reassured us "there was no problem?' Can you link to a quote, article, valid reporting to such nonsense?

To the second bold, so you're pissed the first attempt was tied to foreign aid and not a stand alone immigration reform bill? And yet when the dems offered it up without the aide to Ukraine and Israel and POOTWH's gimp said no, you're still blaming both sides? Seems logical.

One side talks about it and tries to solution it. The other side just talks about it. Its not a "same-same" or "both sides." 

Maybe you can list or identify specifically which of Brandon's EOs have contributed to the issue and why so?

I'm not worried about or afraid of the "other" coming across the border and I don't consider our border to be "open." It may very well not even be in my top 10 concerns of the challenges facing 'Murica.

Pretty sure Mayorkas stated multiple times our borders were secure, I guess his/your definition was just different than those who were on the ground saying otherwise. The border has never been this overwhelmed, ever. Policy got us here, now it's being held up for political reasons. Both are true, and I’m not happy with either. You can make this about race all you want, you're just following the playbook. You realize it only took 19 terrorists to carry out 9/11, right? I'd be at the least a little concerned, but that's just me.

I don't fully agree with the assessment that policy is the cause the border is overwhelmed. It's the lack of progressive policy and investment in resources, staffing and facilities for the past 20 years. Securing the borders isn't just about building walls and blocking access, there's a balance of humanitarian aid/assistance and processing capabilities. Courts can't keep up and the process takes years in some instances. If you look back, the border hasn't seen this many encounters since the 90's. It's a multifaceted issue that also ebbs and flows with the stability, or lack thereof, the countries south of the US.

Halifax2TheMax

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

I am. It’s also possible at the same time to be critical of the ones who reassured there was no problem. Waiting to address it until funding for more important issues to them was needed doesn’t scream the best interests of the people to me. I’m glad you’re cool with being deceived, I am not. If you can’t admit our border has never been more vulnerable, I don’t know what to say. If you also choose to believe every issue facing our country is the fault of one party, go for it, that’s clearly the ideology we need more of. 

Sorry the ability to criticize both parties upsets you, to me it’s logical. 

I'm mad at one party because the border issue has been attempted to be resolved or solutioned, not "solved" in the absence of a Berlin Wall with armed guards and shoot to kill orders, lets be realistic, by the dems when they had the White House or Congress. Repubs had both and could have passed legislation and didn't. Obama had specific proposals the repubs wouldn't even let it come to a vote and if they did, shot it down. Brandon has tried to do the same and had a bi-partisan deal worked out. The last time there was major immigration reform legislation was 1986. Fucking 1986. To the bold, who reassured us "there was no problem?' Can you link to a quote, article, valid reporting to such nonsense?

To the second bold, so you're pissed the first attempt was tied to foreign aid and not a stand alone immigration reform bill? And yet when the dems offered it up without the aide to Ukraine and Israel and POOTWH's gimp said no, you're still blaming both sides? Seems logical.

One side talks about it and tries to solution it. The other side just talks about it. Its not a "same-same" or "both sides." 

Maybe you can list or identify specifically which of Brandon's EOs have contributed to the issue and why so?

I'm not worried about or afraid of the "other" coming across the border and I don't consider our border to be "open." It may very well not even be in my top 10 concerns of the challenges facing 'Murica.

Pretty sure Mayorkas stated multiple times our borders were secure, I guess his/your definition was just different than those who were on the ground saying otherwise. The border has never been this overwhelmed, ever. Policy got us here, now it's being held up for political reasons. Both are true, and I’m not happy with either. You can make this about race all you want, you're just following the playbook. You realize it only took 19 terrorists to carry out 9/11, right? I'd be at the least a little concerned, but that's just me.

Let me know how many of the 9/11 hijackers crossed the southern border, would you please?

To Mayorka's point, when has the border ever been "secure"? What does "secure" mean to you? East/West Berlin secure? Good grief.

Its not about race, unless you want to include white Europeans who overstay their tourist/education visas or use chain migration or marriage, gee who coulda done that, in the round ups? Maybe start with Brighton Beach and Sunny Isles Beach?

FiveBelow

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

FiveBelow said:

tbergs said:

FiveBelow said:

Total border encounters over the last 2 administrations per CBP:

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics

Fiscal Year runs October 1 - September 30

2017 526,901 2018 683,178 2019 1,148,024 2020 646,822 = 3,004,925

2021 1,956,519 2022 2,766,582 2023 3,201,144 2024 1,231,213 (7 months remain) = 9,155,458

Were there any changes in 2021 that could be to blame for the influx we've seen since? If so, who executed them, and would you consider these changes a success given the current situation? You know, for the sake of objectivity and all. I'm glad team blue's newfound border interest has seemingly made their loyalists forget the previous 3+ years of them mocking and downplaying our border issues, but to me this feels more like an attempt to sweep away culpability and grasp for votes than anything else. If that's the case, is anyone truly surprised by how team red is playing this? This is politics after all, the peoples best interests will always take a back seat to the parties. It's fascinating to watch how quickly viewpoints shift when the only change is the politicians so many swoon for changing their tune. The election cycle fuckery has only begun in this two-party joke. The fact team blue isn't willing to admit Biden’s fuck up after 3 years of ignorance, coupled with team red not immediately seizing the opportunity to fund the border says it all. Very serious people indeed, we should all be so proud.

Data is great, but just throwing out numbers or even just throwing out the totals you did without delving further in to them is really kind of pointless. There is a lot to digest with the border situation and it's maddening when all people do is point at a number without examining what they mean or if data is even being collected in the same way.

You brought up 2021 as the change, but it really started happening in 2018 and then more so in 2019. The only thing that kept 2020 down is obviously Covid or I'm sure we would have seen it be somewhere a little under what 2021 ended at, which would have also been higher if not for the lingering impacts of Covid in the first quarter of FY21 for the CBP dataset. It doesn't seem title 42 deterred encounters during it's existence, even though I am sure MAGAs are foaming at the mouth and pointing to its end as the reason for increased encounters. That only took effect since May and then June actually saw a decrease before trending up again to higher numbers in August.

Hell, even the northern border encounters have increased 6x the amount from FY21 (27,000 up to 189,000) so it isn't only the southwest, which is obviously the main focus any time the topic of immigration comes up.

I think the other issue is that just because there are encounters, doesn't mean it's "thugs" and "rapists". A large percentage of the encounters are still families and minors, but single adult encounters have seen an uptick the past few years as well. A lot of people fleeing shitty situations or trying to reunite with family already in the US.

There's a good commentary that was put out right before the end of title 42 that really delved in to the complicated situation of immigration and analyzed the CBP data to great extent. It's a pretty fascinating read.

https://www.wola.org/analysis/end-title-42/

Providing the CBP data was not just pointing at numbers. They are a data point that can be used to determine timelines as they pertain to this discussion. 3 to 1 is more than just normal trending, we would be foolish to ignore this, as well as the impact executive orders could have played. 2021 marked the administration change, that was not thrown out to celebrate the previous 4 years (which as you said were trending up and would have continued to if not for covid). These increased encounters aren't just unique to the US either, it's interesting that there seems to be a worldwide migration occurring. Obviously the vast majority are not a threat and are seeking an opportunity, I don't think you'll find many people who are against this, but because of this influx it has become much easier for real threats to enter. It is important to remember there are many countries that would love nothing more than creating havoc in the US, this cannot be overlooked and the current situation is their best time to get in. This is a much more complicated situation than has been discussed here, the typical blame the other side for everything just gets old. The numbers that concern me are the 1.7M known getaways (even if 99% were good people fleeing a shitty situation, there are guaranteed threats within this number), the 169 terrorist watch list apprehensions in 2023 alone, the actual gang members, who as you probably know are trapped in a life of doing what they're told (usually not outstanding citizens), and the almost 14 tons of fentanyl that was seized in 2023. These are all legitimate concerns to ALL of us, and as a citizen I'd like to feel like our government is prioritizing these concerns. Right now, they are playing fucking politics. Thanks for the response, I'll definitely read the article you linked.

Then you should be angry at the repubs for scuttling a bill that gave them everything they wanted, the dems gave up key demands (Dreamers) and addressed all of the concerns you raised. POOTWH could have claimed victory from a point of "I, and I alone, forced the dems to give up their dreams, invest in the border and reduce the numbers flowing through unchecked," which seasonally happens over the summer months anyway, but he could take credit in the months leading up to the general election, as a "data point." POOTWH would have won in a landslide.

"Its 'both sides'" is what is getting really old. One side is trying to legislate to improve things, and we can disagree on how to do it (the Art of Compromise) and the other side is relishing the dysfunction and chaos and isn't interested in solving real world problems. POOTWH and his cult have broken 'Murican democracy.

I am. It’s also possible at the same time to be critical of the ones who reassured there was no problem. Waiting to address it until funding for more important issues to them was needed doesn’t scream the best interests of the people to me. I’m glad you’re cool with being deceived, I am not. If you can’t admit our border has never been more vulnerable, I don’t know what to say. If you also choose to believe every issue facing our country is the fault of one party, go for it, that’s clearly the ideology we need more of. 

Sorry the ability to criticize both parties upsets you, to me it’s logical. 

I'm mad at one party because the border issue has been attempted to be resolved or solutioned, not "solved" in the absence of a Berlin Wall with armed guards and shoot to kill orders, lets be realistic, by the dems when they had the White House or Congress. Repubs had both and could have passed legislation and didn't. Obama had specific proposals the repubs wouldn't even let it come to a vote and if they did, shot it down. Brandon has tried to do the same and had a bi-partisan deal worked out. The last time there was major immigration reform legislation was 1986. Fucking 1986. To the bold, who reassured us "there was no problem?' Can you link to a quote, article, valid reporting to such nonsense?

To the second bold, so you're pissed the first attempt was tied to foreign aid and not a stand alone immigration reform bill? And yet when the dems offered it up without the aide to Ukraine and Israel and POOTWH's gimp said no, you're still blaming both sides? Seems logical.

One side talks about it and tries to solution it. The other side just talks about it. Its not a "same-same" or "both sides." 

Maybe you can list or identify specifically which of Brandon's EOs have contributed to the issue and why so?

I'm not worried about or afraid of the "other" coming across the border and I don't consider our border to be "open." It may very well not even be in my top 10 concerns of the challenges facing 'Murica.

Pretty sure Mayorkas stated multiple times our borders were secure, I guess his/your definition was just different than those who were on the ground saying otherwise. The border has never been this overwhelmed, ever. Policy got us here, now it's being held up for political reasons. Both are true, and I’m not happy with either. You can make this about race all you want, you're just following the playbook. You realize it only took 19 terrorists to carry out 9/11, right? I'd be at the least a little concerned, but that's just me.

I don't fully agree with the assessment that policy is the cause the border is overwhelmed. It's the lack of progressive policy and investment in resources, staffing and facilities for the past 20 years. Securing the borders isn't just about building walls and blocking access, there's a balance of humanitarian aid/assistance and processing capabilities. Courts can't keep up and the process takes years in some instances. If you look back, the border hasn't seen this many encounters since the 90's. It's a multifaceted issue that also ebbs and flows with the stability, or lack thereof, the countries south of the US.

Yeah, I definitely could have articulated that better. My point being, policy that could be seen as inviting to migrants without the infrastructure to handle it already being in place.

Halifax2TheMax

Yup, both sides are the same. And you definitely should have equal rage at both for the mess. Because, you know, 9/11 and border policy driven by Brietbart News.

Fact check: Trump makes false and unsubstantiated claims in border speech

WashingtonCNN — 

President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump delivered back-to-back Thursday speeches at different Texas locations near the border with Mexico.

Biden’s speech, largely delivered from a prepared text, was highly factual. Biden devoted much of the address to an accurate description of various provisions of the bipartisan border bill he supports but Trump’s opposition helped to kill in Congress.

Trump’s speech minutes prior, much of which appeared to be off the cuff, was filled with assertions about migrants that were unsubstantiated, misleading or plain false.

Some of his words were too conspiratorially vague to definitively fact-check. For example, Trump spoke of migrants as “entire columns of fighting-age men” and said “they look like warriors to me; something’s going on, and it’s bad” – winking at a baseless narrative about foreign adversaries using migration to surreptitiously assemble some sort of enemy force in the US. He said he thinks unnamed people are allowing migrants into the country because “they’re looking for votes,” faintly echoing his previous false claim about migrants being signed up to vote in the 2024 election – and declining to explain that non-citizens cannot vote in federal, state and almost all local elections (though some migrants might potentially receive citizenship years down the road).

Trump also spoke of the US being “overrun” by a “new form” of crime he called “Biden migrant crime.” He made that claim though early data suggests that in 2023 the US was at or around its lowest violent crime rate in more than 50 years amid a sharp decline in homicides; though there were cases of undocumented people committing crimes during his own presidency; and though, despite some recent cases in which undocumented people are accused of serious offenses, research has found no connection between immigration and crime - and sometimes that immigrants commit crimes at lower rates than people born in the US.

Here’s a fact check of two of Trump’s other claims.

An evidence-free story about foreign countries and ‘insane asylums’

Trump repeated - and broadened – his familiar story about how migrants are supposedly arriving in the US after having been deliberately freed by foreign leaders from prisons and mental health facilities.

After claiming that “they’re coming from jails and they’re coming from prisons and they’re coming from mental institutions and they’re coming from insane asylums,” Trump added, “You know, I know many of the leaders of these other countries that are doing it.” He said moments later, “You look at the jails now – you look at the jails throughout the region but more importantly throughout the world, they’re emptying out, because they’re dumping them into the United States.”

Facts First: There is no evidence for Trump’s claim that jails “throughout the world” are being emptied out so that prisoners can travel to the US as migrants, nor for his claim that foreign leaders are also emptying out mental health facilities for this purpose. Last year, Trump’s campaign was unable to provide any evidence for his narrower claim at the time that South American countries in particular were emptying their mental health facilities to somehow dump patients upon the US. 

Representatives for two anti-immigration organizations told CNN at the time they had not heard of anything that would corroborate Trump’s story, as did three experts at organizations favorable toward immigration. CNN’s own search did not produce any evidence. The website FactCheck.org also found nothing.

In response to CNN’s 2023 inquiry, Trump campaign spokesman Steven Cheung cited one source for Trump’s claim about prisons being emptied for migration purposes – a 2022 article from right-wing website Breitbart News about a supposed federal intelligence report warning Border Patrol agents that Venezuela had done this. But that vague and unverified claim about Venezuela’s actions has never been corroborated.

Even if Venezuela in particular had indeed freed prisoners to allow people to try to migrate to the US, that would be insufficient proof for Trump’s current claim that countries “throughout the world” are doing so. And a second article that Cheung cited at the time, about Mexico’s president having freed 2,685 prisoners, was not about migration at all; that article simply explained that the president had freed them “as part of an effort to free those who have not committed serious crimes or were being held unjustly.”

CNN reached out to Cheung again after Trump’s speech on Thursday and will update this item with any relevant comment.

Another inaccurate number about the border wall 

Returning to one of his regular exaggerations, Trump claimed that “we built 571 miles of border wall” during his presidency.

Facts First: Trump’s “571 miles” claim is false, an even greater exaggeration than the inaccurate “561 miles” and “over 500 miles” claims he has made at other points of his campaign. An official report by US Customs and Border Protection, written two days after Trump left office and subsequently obtained by CNN’s Priscilla Alvarez, said the total number built under Trump was 458 miles – including both wall built where no barriers had existed before and wall built to replace previous barriers. Trump has sometimes put the figure, more correctly, at “nearly 500 miles.”

Fifty-two of the 458 miles built under Trump was “primary” wall that was built in parts of the border where no barriers previously existed. The rest was 33 miles of “secondary” wall that was built in spots where no barriers previously existed, plus 373 miles of primary and secondary wall that was built to replace previous barriers the federal government says had become “dilapidated and/or outdated.”

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/29/politics/fact-check-trump-biden-border-speech/index.html

Halifax2TheMax

“Bad things happen.”

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