14 years and counting...

cincybearcat

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

Merkin Baller

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

It’s my understanding that Biden was trying to negotiate border measures w/ the GOP as that was their demand in order to approve more Ukraine funds, and the GOP instead of negotiating chose to recess for Christmas. 

Do I have that wrong? 

mickeyrat

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

It’s my understanding that Biden was trying to negotiate border measures w/ the GOP as that was their demand in order to approve more Ukraine funds, and the GOP instead of negotiating chose to recess for Christmas. 

Do I have that wrong? 

nope exactly right.

in addition,  biden tried to include border measures in his build back better plan or one of the other sugnatures pieces his first year. would have increased the number of CBP agents AND judges to deal with backlog and put some kind of normal order to that side of things.

admin even followed the law in regards to border wall funds

and their use....

solve the problem? not likely. make progress toward a solution? absolutely.

Halifax2TheMax

We should mention the “both sides” issue as well. Repubs use the issue of immigration, both legal and illegal to scare and motivate their base while representing that Dems are for both types of immigration so they can add dem voters to the rolls. Except Dems want enforcement of those who hire illegal migrants (businesses that traditionally exploit labor to increase profits and vote repub) and illegals don’t and can’t vote (as evidenced by the now debunked voter fraud allegations, investigations and court challenges) and when migrants do become legal and registered to vote, they tend to vote repub (because they more closely align due to religious and family reasons, among others).

So, once again, the “both sides” is bullshit, unless you consider that having compassion, wealth and resources, as well as the Statue of Liberty, is the same as scaring your base of voters with demonization of “the other” (“poisoning the blood of the country”).

Merkin Baller

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Merkin Baller

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Anyone? 

Halifax2TheMax

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Anyone? 

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of illegals voted Brandon in the greatest stolen election ever and Dems support it because without it they’d lose and lose bigly!

Merkin Baller

Halifax2TheMax said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Anyone? 

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of illegals voted Brandon in the greatest stolen election ever and Dems support it because without it they’d lose and lose bigly!

I know you're being facetious, but I'll respond anyway...

I don't know if that's what Cincy was suggesting when he said this issue gets people to the polls for both sides, but I would think we can rule it out since trump's election integrity commission wasn't able to prove any of trump's claims about the 2016 election, including the one about millions of immigrants voting illegally; If that was true, they would have uncovered some evidence of it. 

I would also have to think no election in our country has been scrutinzed as much as the 2020 presidential election... If people voted illegally in 2020, especially en masse, it almost certainly would have been discovered, so yeah... undocumented immigrants voting in large numbers doesn't really pass the smell test. 

tempo_n_groove

Merkin Baller said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Anyone? 

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of illegals voted Brandon in the greatest stolen election ever and Dems support it because without it they’d lose and lose bigly!

I know you're being facetious, but I'll respond anyway...

I don't know if that's what Cincy was suggesting when he said this issue gets people to the polls for both sides, but I would think we can rule it out since trump's election integrity commission wasn't able to prove any of trump's claims about the 2016 election, including the one about millions of immigrants voting illegally; If that was true, they would have uncovered some evidence of it. 

I would also have to think no election in our country has been scrutinzed as much as the 2020 presidential election... If people voted illegally in 2020, especially en masse, it almost certainly would have been discovered, so yeah... undocumented immigrants voting in large numbers doesn't really pass the smell test. 

Question.

If you show up to a polling station, who is to stop you from casting a vote?  They don't check ID's in a bunch of states.

Here in NY we give Drivers licenses out now so they could in theory just show that and vote.

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Anyone? 

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of illegals voted Brandon in the greatest stolen election ever and Dems support it because without it they’d lose and lose bigly!

I know you're being facetious, but I'll respond anyway...

I don't know if that's what Cincy was suggesting when he said this issue gets people to the polls for both sides, but I would think we can rule it out since trump's election integrity commission wasn't able to prove any of trump's claims about the 2016 election, including the one about millions of immigrants voting illegally; If that was true, they would have uncovered some evidence of it. 

I would also have to think no election in our country has been scrutinzed as much as the 2020 presidential election... If people voted illegally in 2020, especially en masse, it almost certainly would have been discovered, so yeah... undocumented immigrants voting in large numbers doesn't really pass the smell test. 

Question.

If you show up to a polling station, who is to stop you from casting a vote?  They don't check ID's in a bunch of states.

Here in NY we give Drivers licenses out now so they could in theory just show that and vote.

You're telling me in NY anyone can walk into any polling station w/ a license and vote? You don't have to register in advance, all you need is a license & you get a ballot? There's no voter log on hand against which they confirm your status? That would surprise me if that was the case, but if you say it is, I'll take your word for it.

In MA you can't just vote anywhere, you have to be registered and you have to go to your district's voting station where they'll have your info on the log. When I arrive I give my information, they check me off the list and hand me a ballot. I fill it in, and when I go to submit it, they check me off a second register before accepting my completed ballot. It's a 2 point verification process. Is it a fool proof system? No, but having said that, one would have to go to some lengths to cast just 1 ballot illegally, never mind enough ballots to swing an election.

I feel like this angle to voter fraud isn't really thought out much by those who think it's rampant... the sheer # of votes that would be required to swing an election, as compared to what those people would be facing for penalties for every violation of voting laws... The risk vs reward just isn't there... not only that, how could that elaborate of a scheme be kept under wraps, or hidden from trump's voter integrity commission etc etc? How can democrats be so hapless, and at the same time have such an elaborate voter fraud scheme that they could swing a presidential election without being discovered?

It's too fantastical to reasonably entertain. 

Yes, voter fraud happens, but nowhere near on the scale alleged by trump, and nowhere near enough to swing a presidential election.

Halifax2TheMax

NPR. But you know, immigrants. And NPR. Both Soros funded.

Voter fraud is extremely rare, according to experts. A comprehensive review of 2020 election results by the Associated Press, for instance, found fewer than 475 cases out of millions of ballots cast in six battleground states that swung the presidential election.

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Anyone? 

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of illegals voted Brandon in the greatest stolen election ever and Dems support it because without it they’d lose and lose bigly!

I know you're being facetious, but I'll respond anyway...

I don't know if that's what Cincy was suggesting when he said this issue gets people to the polls for both sides, but I would think we can rule it out since trump's election integrity commission wasn't able to prove any of trump's claims about the 2016 election, including the one about millions of immigrants voting illegally; If that was true, they would have uncovered some evidence of it. 

I would also have to think no election in our country has been scrutinzed as much as the 2020 presidential election... If people voted illegally in 2020, especially en masse, it almost certainly would have been discovered, so yeah... undocumented immigrants voting in large numbers doesn't really pass the smell test. 

Question.

If you show up to a polling station, who is to stop you from casting a vote?  They don't check ID's in a bunch of states.

Here in NY we give Drivers licenses out now so they could in theory just show that and vote.

I neglected to mention there are police officers at the stations where you both receive and return your ballot, to answer the boldfaced question. 

cincybearcat

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

The Latino population makes up about 14% of the electorate. They align with the democrats on illegal immigration more than the gop … something like 55-60% I believe. So keeping it on the ballot by just arguing and only ever making baby steps at best certainly gets people to the ballot box.

 This is starting to change a bit so it would behoove the dems to find a different path on illegal immigration. Overall it does appear it is less and less a driving issue for Latino voters over other issues like the economy…so it will be interesting to see how that affects the governing.

cincybearcat

Sorry just seeing this… I never meant illegal voting. 

josevolution

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

Anyone? 

Hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, of illegals voted Brandon in the greatest stolen election ever and Dems support it because without it they’d lose and lose bigly!

I know you're being facetious, but I'll respond anyway...

I don't know if that's what Cincy was suggesting when he said this issue gets people to the polls for both sides, but I would think we can rule it out since trump's election integrity commission wasn't able to prove any of trump's claims about the 2016 election, including the one about millions of immigrants voting illegally; If that was true, they would have uncovered some evidence of it. 

I would also have to think no election in our country has been scrutinzed as much as the 2020 presidential election... If people voted illegally in 2020, especially en masse, it almost certainly would have been discovered, so yeah... undocumented immigrants voting in large numbers doesn't really pass the smell test. 

Question.

If you show up to a polling station, who is to stop you from casting a vote?  They don't check ID's in a bunch of states.

Here in NY we give Drivers licenses out now so they could in theory just show that and vote.

You're telling me in NY anyone can walk into any polling station w/ a license and vote? You don't have to register in advance, all you need is a license & you get a ballot? There's no voter log on hand against which they confirm your status? That would surprise me if that was the case, but if you say it is, I'll take your word for it.

In MA you can't just vote anywhere, you have to be registered and you have to go to your district's voting station where they'll have your info on the log. When I arrive I give my information, they check me off the list and hand me a ballot. I fill it in, and when I go to submit it, they check me off a second register before accepting my completed ballot. It's a 2 point verification process. Is it a fool proof system? No, but having said that, one would have to go to some lengths to cast just 1 ballot illegally, never mind enough ballots to swing an election.

I feel like this angle to voter fraud isn't really thought out much by those who think it's rampant... the sheer # of votes that would be required to swing an election, as compared to what those people would be facing for penalties for every violation of voting laws... The risk vs reward just isn't there... not only that, how could that elaborate of a scheme be kept under wraps, or hidden from trump's voter integrity commission etc etc? How can democrats be so hapless, and at the same time have such an elaborate voter fraud scheme that they could swing a presidential election without being discovered?

It's too fantastical to reasonably entertain. 

Yes, voter fraud happens, but nowhere near on the scale alleged by trump, and nowhere near enough to swing a presidential election.

Nah when I go to vote they check my name to be sure I’m on the list to vote and they have my address to match it with! 

josevolution

I live here in NY sorry but tempo is not correct! 

tempo_n_groove

josevolution said:

I live here in NY sorry but tempo is not correct! 

Thank you for clarifying. 

Edit: So they don't check your ID though like I said.  I'm trying to see how, if possible, voter fraud can be achieved.  It baffles me.

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

josevolution said:

I live here in NY sorry but tempo is not correct! 

Thank you for clarifying. 

Edit: So they don't check your ID though like I said.  I'm trying to see how, if possible, voter fraud can be achieved.  It baffles me.

It exists, but on a minimal scale. Hailfax posted a link above.... it's few and far between. 

The boogey man of voter fraud however has been a conservative talking point for decades now.... and it's complete bullshit. 

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

"Sensationalist claims have circulated this election season about the extent of voter fraud, with some politicians going so far as to tell voters to fear that this November’s election will be “rigged.” Because electoral integrity is one of the elements necessary to making America the greatest democracy in the world, claims like this garner media attention, and frighten and concern voters. But putting rhetoric aside to look at the facts makes clear that fraud by voters at the polls is vanishingly rare, and does not happen on a scale even close to that necessary to “rig” an election."

Merkin Baller

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

cincybearcat said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

There's another huge wave coming in and no, it wasn't shown on fox news. I'm sure it is now though?
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-us-caravan-migration-5d0846e553799a0f4d9155ccefba89e0

The GOP held up funding for Ukraine, something 66% of Americans support to force Biden for stricter border measures, but when Biden offered to negotiate, the GOP went home for the holidays. 

I hate to break it to you, but the GOP doesn't want to solve the border crisis. They want it to fester so as to keep the base scared and angry. 

True. But it’s also true that this is truly a “both sides” issue. Almost no one on either side want to fix it. It gets people to the polls on both sides. 

How does it get people to the polls for democrats? 

The Latino population makes up about 14% of the electorate. They align with the democrats on illegal immigration more than the gop … something like 55-60% I believe. So keeping it on the ballot by just arguing and only ever making baby steps at best certainly gets people to the ballot box.

 This is starting to change a bit so it would behoove the dems to find a different path on illegal immigration. Overall it does appear it is less and less a driving issue for Latino voters over other issues like the economy…so it will be interesting to see how that affects the governing.

55 to 60% is a majority, but certainly not overwhelming...  What are the democratic policies that Latinos align with? I'm not nit-picking, I'm genuinely curious. From what I read, the majority of the Latino population is against the idea of an open border (as are most people, not to mention it's another conservative myth - our borders aren't open). So based on that, they might be inclined to vote republican if they believe the rhetoric. 

Immigration is a lynchpin of the GOP platform and has a long history in our country; conservative fear mongering about immigrants coming to take our jobs goes back to the reconstruction era... to suggest it's a 'both sides' issue just doesn't track from what I can see, but I'm open to being corrected. 

mace1229

josevolution said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

It’s funny how the Republicans & MAGA cult want the Spanish immigrants from central & South American countries out of here and stop the flow I can understand the need to stopping the overflow, but they never ever mention immigrants from the Eastern European immigrants! I was coming out of shopping store I saw a man with sign stating no job no money need to eat, I stopped gave him 10$ and asked where are you from he answered in broken Spanish he was from Romania he couldn’t get no work no papers he said he learned Spanish from his brother in law. Yet the immigrants from Central America come here and get to work somehow they just do! 

I think it's obvious why Eastern European immigrants aren't a target. They make up a small fraction of immigration. 

from: https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/15/us/where-immigrants-come-from-cec/index.html

And according to https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/european-immigrants-united-states-2010 , only 12% of immigrants are European, and only 44% of those are from Eastern Europe. So of all the Eastern Europe countries combined, they make up about 5% of the immigration.
If anyone wants to slow immigration down, why focus on the 5% and ignore the much bigger contributing factors? 

Yes it’s a small amount but still illegal so I guess they get a pass and they don’t work they beg! 

If you got a gun shot wound in the stomach and a paper cut on your finger, which one are you going to ask the ER doctor to fix first?
If illegal immigration from the south was in the thousands and not millions, like Eastern Europe, there wouldn’t be much fuss about it either.