MLB 2025 Season

polaris_x

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Yeah, I hear you on the titles, but that is not just his doing, he was on some great teams. I am not terrible concerned with the dh aspect, hes only been a DH for the past 5 years or so, right? I feel like anyone who hits 600 home runs and plays to a .403 OBP over 21 years, is a first ballot HOF

like i said ... i like the guy and definitely think he belongs in the hall ... just not on the first ballot ... stats can show a lot of things ... obviously some show him more positively than others ... for me - it's his play on the other side of the field that takes away his first ballot status ... if he was better at 3rd or 1st ... i might consider it but i think baseball is played on both sides of the diamonds and i like guys who are more multi-dimensional ...

81

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Yeah, I hear you on the titles, but that is not just his doing, he was on some great teams. I am not terrible concerned with the dh aspect, hes only been a DH for the past 5 years or so, right? I feel like anyone who hits 600 home runs and plays to a .403 OBP over 21 years, is a first ballot HOF

sox turned him into a dh in 2006

Cliffy6745

81 wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Yeah, I hear you on the titles, but that is not just his doing, he was on some great teams. I am not terrible concerned with the dh aspect, hes only been a DH for the past 5 years or so, right? I feel like anyone who hits 600 home runs and plays to a .403 OBP over 21 years, is a first ballot HOF

sox turned him into a dh in 2006

Yeah, I thought it was around there. So 16 years in the field and 5 as a DH.

81

polaris_x wrote:

definitely think he belongs in the hall ... just not on the first ballot

i hate these statements.

you are either a hof player, or you are not.

well. i think joe blow deserves to be in the HOF, but not until his 5th ballot, but man, jim bob over there, he's a sure fire 3rd ballot hofer.

Cliffy6745

81 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

definitely think he belongs in the hall ... just not on the first ballot

i hate these statements.

you are either a hof player, or you are not.

well. i think joe blow deserves to be in the HOF, but not until his 5th ballot, but man, jim bob over there, he's a sure fire 3rd ballot hofer.

I was just going to say the same thing. Completely agree. Writers who won't vote for a player because they feel they are not a "first ballot hof player" annoy the hell out of me.

If they are a hall of famer, vote for them, if they aren't, dont. Simple as that.

polaris_x

81 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

definitely think he belongs in the hall ... just not on the first ballot

i hate these statements.

you are either a hof player, or you are not.

well. i think joe blow deserves to be in the HOF, but not until his 5th ballot, but man, jim bob over there, he's a sure fire 3rd ballot hofer.

but that's the way it is ... if that was the case - players should be only eligible once and that would be it ...

81

Cliffy6745 wrote:

81 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

definitely think he belongs in the hall ... just not on the first ballot

i hate these statements.

you are either a hof player, or you are not.

well. i think joe blow deserves to be in the HOF, but not until his 5th ballot, but man, jim bob over there, he's a sure fire 3rd ballot hofer.

I was just going to say the same thing. Completely agree. Writers who won't vote for a player because they feel they are not a "first ballot hof player" annoy the hell out of me.

If they are a hall of famer, vote for them, if they aren't, dont. Simple as that.

it's the bigger penis syndrome. kind of like yankee's fans hating on uggla's recent streak.

but seriously, if they want to compare hof penis, compare vote %. the greatest of the great will be up in the 98% range, while your not so great great players will be at like 80%

maybe this is better way to debate thome. what % of the votes do you think he will get

81

polaris_x wrote:

81 wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

definitely think he belongs in the hall ... just not on the first ballot

i hate these statements.

you are either a hof player, or you are not.

well. i think joe blow deserves to be in the HOF, but not until his 5th ballot, but man, jim bob over there, he's a sure fire 3rd ballot hofer.

but that's the way it is ... if that was the case - players should be only eligible once and that would be it ...

that's an interesting way to look at it. what if each player only got once chance at the hof? i'd have to think about this.

81

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem4.shtml


i'm going to put Thome's vote % at 81.5%

Johnny Abruzzo

81 wrote:

that's an interesting way to look at it. what if each player only got once chance at the hof? i'd have to think about this.

The latest argument I saw was the complete opposite. Have no 15-year limit on eligibility. Seeing as how appreciation of statistics and the like changes over times. For instance, one might say Chase Utley is a lousy defensive 2B because he has never won a Gold Glove. Or one might say that Gold Gloves are random and have nothing to do with how good one is at defense, and Chase Utley was a spectacular defensive 2B.

Also, when the writers look and see that a guy didn't win MVP's or Cy Youngs or whatever and don't vote for him, it's pretty dumb because it's probably the same writers who shafted him out of the awards to start with.

Cliffy6745

81 wrote:

it's the bigger penis syndrome. kind of like yankee's fans hating on uggla's recent streak.

but seriously, if they want to compare hof penis, compare vote %. the greatest of the great will be up in the 98% range, while your not so great great players will be at like 80%

maybe this is better way to debate thome. what % of the votes do you think he will get

Ha, true. I forgot to respond to all of that. I was a tad intoxicated when I wrote that, I believe. I just think if someone is going to break the streak, I would prefer it to be a player better than Dan Uggla.

Agreed though. I hate how some writers feel like it's their responsibility to protect the gates of the hall and some sacred first ballot honor.

Here is a list of players and their percentages. Obviously take it with a grain of salt since so much changes over time

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem4.shtml

Alomar was obviously a much better fielder and was a middle infielder, but I would have to think Thome would approach 90% if he did. Keep in mind, everyone loves Thome, including writers and I am sure that helps. You know there are going to be plenty of writers who don't vote for Bonds because they think he's an asshole and I bet they will vote for Thome because they like him.

81

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

81 wrote:

that's an interesting way to look at it. what if each player only got once chance at the hof? i'd have to think about this.

The latest argument I saw was the complete opposite. Have no 15-year limit on eligibility. Seeing as how appreciation of statistics and the like changes over times. For instance, one might say Chase Utley is a lousy defensive 2B because he has never won a Gold Glove. Or one might say that Gold Gloves are random and have nothing to do with how good one is at defense, and Chase Utley was a spectacular defensive 2B.

Also, when the writers look and see that a guy didn't win MVP's or Cy Youngs or whatever and don't vote for him, it's pretty dumb because it's probably the same writers who shafted him out of the awards to start with.

Jeter isn't a gold glover?

i kid yankee's fans, i kid.

Cliffy6745

81 wrote:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem4.shtml


i'm going to put Thome's vote % at 81.5%

Beat me to it. You don't think he will be higher than that?

Cliffy6745

81 wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

81 wrote:

that's an interesting way to look at it. what if each player only got once chance at the hof? i'd have to think about this.

The latest argument I saw was the complete opposite. Have no 15-year limit on eligibility. Seeing as how appreciation of statistics and the like changes over times. For instance, one might say Chase Utley is a lousy defensive 2B because he has never won a Gold Glove. Or one might say that Gold Gloves are random and have nothing to do with how good one is at defense, and Chase Utley was a spectacular defensive 2B.

Also, when the writers look and see that a guy didn't win MVP's or Cy Youngs or whatever and don't vote for him, it's pretty dumb because it's probably the same writers who shafted him out of the awards to start with.

Jeter isn't a gold glover?

Reigning Gold Glover

81

Cliffy6745 wrote:

81 wrote:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem4.shtml


i'm going to put Thome's vote % at 81.5%

Beat me to it. You don't think he will be higher than that?

i was scanning this list of names in the order of their %. i had Thome in 60ish range on the list which was the low 80's

i orginally thought 82.5 but backed it down a tick.
i could see it being as high as 85, but not much more.

Johnny Abruzzo

81 wrote:

Jeter isn't a gold glover?

i kid yankee's fans, i kid.

They know it was a joke (not really a joke, you know). At least I think they do...

polaris_x

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Here is a list of players and their percentages. Obviously take it with a grain of salt since so much changes over time

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem4.shtml

Alomar was obviously a much better fielder and was a middle infielder, but I would have to think Thome would approach 90% if he did. Keep in mind, everyone loves Thome, including writers and I am sure that helps. You know there are going to be plenty of writers who don't vote for Bonds because they think he's an asshole and I bet they will vote for Thome because they like him.

dude was a perennial gold glover who hit for average, stole bases and had decent power ... there aren't too many players as complete as he was ...

Cliffy6745

polaris_x wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Here is a list of players and their percentages. Obviously take it with a grain of salt since so much changes over time

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofmem4.shtml

Alomar was obviously a much better fielder and was a middle infielder, but I would have to think Thome would approach 90% if he did. Keep in mind, everyone loves Thome, including writers and I am sure that helps. You know there are going to be plenty of writers who don't vote for Bonds because they think he's an asshole and I bet they will vote for Thome because they like him.

dude was a perennial gold glover who hit for average, stole bases and had decent power ... there aren't too many players as complete as he was ...

Completely agree.

But there are also only 8 players in baseball history to hit 600 home runs, add a .400+ OBP to that, and that is pretty damn impressive.

polaris_x

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Completely agree.

But there are also only 8 players in baseball history to hit 600 home runs, add a .400+ OBP to that, and that is pretty damn impressive.

sure ... but if you were building a team and could have them for their best 10 years ... who would you pick?

Cliffy6745

polaris_x wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Completely agree.

But there are also only 8 players in baseball history to hit 600 home runs, add a .400+ OBP to that, and that is pretty damn impressive.

sure ... but if you were building a team and could have them for their best 10 years ... who would you pick?

I would take Alomar any day, but that doesn't take away anything from Thome or make him less of a hall of famer. I was just using him as a recent comparsion to estimate the percentage of votes. I don't think he'll get the same number of votes but I don't think he will be that far off.