Murder ... a capital "A" felony ... has a max fine of $20,000. Just to put things in perspective.
Braun could have went grand theft auto and not racked up that big of fine. And based on the what has been written about Braun by baseball writers versus what I saw written about Aaron Hernandez, he may have been better off just getting caught for setting a few random hobos on fire.
Murder ... a capital "A" felony ... has a max fine of $20,000. Just to put things in perspective.
Braun could have went grand theft auto and not racked up that big of fine. And based on the what has been written about Braun by baseball writers versus what I saw written about Aaron Hernandez, he may have been better off just getting caught for setting a few random hobos on fire.
To me $3mil is a shitload of money to Ryan Braun it's nothing. He is still owed $120mil. Sports isn't the real world so you can't apply real world reasoning.
Alright, alright, alright!
Tom O. "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Murder ... a capital "A" felony ... has a max fine of $20,000. Just to put things in perspective.
Braun could have went grand theft auto and not racked up that big of fine. And based on the what has been written about Braun by baseball writers versus what I saw written about Aaron Hernandez, he may have been better off just getting caught for setting a few random hobos on fire.
To me $3mil is a shitload of money to Ryan Braun it's nothing. He is still owed $120mil. Sports isn't the real world so you can't apply real world reasoning.
You have to factor in losing endorsement money as well. He is a good looking, good talking, former MVP of baseball. Pretty much a marketing dream.
I'm thinking he is losing closer to $50M over the span of his career due to this. And that's a crapton of money, even to someone like Ryan Braun.
You have to factor in losing endorsement money as well. He is a good looking, good talking, former MVP of baseball. Pretty much a marketing dream.
I'm thinking he is losing closer to $50M over the span of his career due to this. And that's a crapton of money, even to someone like Ryan Braun.
the question is would he have garnered the salary and endorsements if he didn't take drugs? ...
i honestly think that although it is definitely a lot of money - he's not going to be crying too much over it ... as far as endorsements - that really is irrelevant ... he's facing the consequences of his actions ... it's not like he's getting screwed over here ...
plus like so many before him - when it came time to take the high road and come clean ... he lied ... he lied to his friends ... that is the big reason why so many are pissed at him ...
Murder ... a capital "A" felony ... has a max fine of $20,000. Just to put things in perspective.
Braun could have went grand theft auto and not racked up that big of fine. And based on the what has been written about Braun by baseball writers versus what I saw written about Aaron Hernandez, he may have been better off just getting caught for setting a few random hobos on fire.
To me $3mil is a shitload of money to Ryan Braun it's nothing. He is still owed $120mil. Sports isn't the real world so you can't apply real world reasoning.
You have to factor in losing endorsement money as well. He is a good looking, good talking, former MVP of baseball. Pretty much a marketing dream.
I'm thinking he is losing closer to $50M over the span of his career due to this. And that's a crapton of money, even to someone like Ryan Braun.
Endorsements are collateral damage. I don't feel bad for him. He showed his true colors when he "thought" he got away with it. Voiding contracts and banning players from the game is the only way to stop it. If they're not going to do that then let them take whatever they want.
Alright, alright, alright!
Tom O. "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
To me $3mil is a shitload of money to Ryan Braun it's nothing. He is still owed $120mil. Sports isn't the real world so you can't apply real world reasoning.
true that. less than 3% of his contract.
If I had known then what I know now...
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huh ... making false statement carries a higher fine then murder. you can be fined up to $1M for lying and only $20K for killing. very odd society we live in.
the majority of americans want weed legal but frown upon a substance that lets you bike 2000 miles through mountains, hit 500 feet homers, and heal in half the time from what ten years ago would have been a season ending injury.
adrian peterson tore his mcl and acl on christmas eve and was starting week 1 the next season, almost set the rushing record, and won the mvp award.
terrel suggs and stabby lewis ... same thing and now they are champs.
are we more concerned about lying then getting caught? seems so.
That's why I think MLB is a joke. Who cares if he lied or whatever came out of his mouth? He tested positive before and got off on a technicality.
unlike the 3 other pro sports leagues, at least MLB is addressing the PED issue. I give the league and players credit for stepping up and instituting testing and penalties.
That's why I think MLB is a joke. Who cares if he lied or whatever came out of his mouth? He tested positive before and got off on a technicality.
unlike the 3 other pro sports leagues, at least MLB is addressing the PED issue. I give the league and players credit for stepping up and instituting testing and penalties.
Braun being suspended for 65 games isn't a penalty, its a vacation. He is eligible to play next season and still get paid his ridiculous contract. These aren't penalties especially for players like bartolo colon and melkey Cabrera. Cabrera cheated, got caught, then still got paid.
I don't think MLB needs to go to lifetime bans to deter these people. They need to void contracts and allow teams to get reimbursed signing bonuses by the player who gets popped.
Plus institute penalties on teams that signs players that have knowingly used PED's. (Like the blue jays and theYankees did.)
Interesting, Will Middlebrooks has been mentioned in Jake Peavy trade rumors. Makes sense with the emergence of Iglesias and the fact that the White Sox have a need there since they sent out Morel.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
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"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
as one of the 3 Brewer fans on this message board i feel like I should say something:
Truthfully, I hope my kids, your kids, or anyone else's kids never touch PEDs as long as they are deemed illegal (the history of which is rooted more in Cold War holdovers than anything medically important - steroids are, in fact, largely good for you but that's another story). Moreover, I would be more for Ryan Braun going to jail than actually being suspended from baseball. As my friends elsewhere have pointed out, it is illegal to use steroids for non-medical reasons. However, I have come to the logical conclusion that I cannot care about steroids because:
Anyone with Tommy John, dead cadaver sheeths, and anything other than their god given body needs to fess up bc they are ruining the game. Anyone against instant replay and computer umps because it ruins the game while most certainly cleaning up "unfair advantages" caused by kids catching balls for homeruns, or plain blown calls is a hypocrite. Anyone who can't honestly say they have checked in on the health and well being of their favorite player post-retirement is equally hypocritical. When's the last time anyone of us pushed their favorite player around in a wheelchair because he can't walk most mornings? Either we computerize everything, make athletes eat the same exact diet, and make sure only athletes "natural" bodies play the game with no surgeries. Or we call it as it is - these players bodies are disposable. We only care about the entertainment they provide and when they are done we move on to the next disposable body. Who the eff cares at that point what it is they do to best entertain us? Until we, as fans, start to admit that the war on PEDs is purely antithetical to everything we hold near and dear about baseball we continue to live a lie.
Finally, if Braun has to return his MVP, and the homerun record returns to 61 or whatever bullshit number MLB wants to come up with then should the Yankees return their 2009 title because A-Rod carried them, the Sox in 2007 because Manny Ramirez saved their ass, the 2004 Sox because Curt Schilling used a cadaver's body to enhance his performance, the 1985 Mets and 1979 Pirates for cocaine, Michael Schmidt return his MVP for amphetamine use, and so on and so on? Thus my logic is either clean the whole thing up and regulate everything, or make it a free for all. Anything else is necessarily logically hypocritical.
as one of the 3 Brewer fans on this message board i feel like I should say something:
Truthfully, I hope my kids, your kids, or anyone else's kids never touch PEDs as long as they are deemed illegal (the history of which is rooted more in Cold War holdovers than anything medically important - steroids are, in fact, largely good for you but that's another story). Moreover, I would be more for Ryan Braun going to jail than actually being suspended from baseball. As my friends elsewhere have pointed out, it is illegal to use steroids for non-medical reasons. However, I have come to the logical conclusion that I cannot care about steroids because:
Anyone with Tommy John, dead cadaver sheeths, and anything other than their god given body needs to fess up bc they are ruining the game. Anyone against instant replay and computer umps because it ruins the game while most certainly cleaning up "unfair advantages" caused by kids catching balls for homeruns, or plain blown calls is a hypocrite. Anyone who can't honestly say they have checked in on the health and well being of their favorite player post-retirement is equally hypocritical. When's the last time anyone of us pushed their favorite player around in a wheelchair because he can't walk most mornings? Either we computerize everything, make athletes eat the same exact diet, and make sure only athletes "natural" bodies play the game with no surgeries. Or we call it as it is - these players bodies are disposable. We only care about the entertainment they provide and when they are done we move on to the next disposable body. Who the eff cares at that point what it is they do to best entertain us? Until we, as fans, start to admit that the war on PEDs is purely antithetical to everything we hold near and dear about baseball we continue to live a lie.
Finally, if Braun has to return his MVP, and the homerun record returns to 61 or whatever bullshit number MLB wants to come up with then should the Yankees return their 2009 title because A-Rod carried them, the Sox in 2007 because Manny Ramirez saved their ass, the 2004 Sox because Curt Schilling used a cadaver's body to enhance his performance, the 1985 Mets and 1979 Pirates for cocaine, Michael Schmidt return his MVP for amphetamine use, and so on and so on? Thus my logic is either clean the whole thing up and regulate everything, or make it a free for all. Anything else is necessarily logically hypocritical.
I think its absurd to compare someone having tommy john surgery to using PED's. People that need tommy john surgery or that has an injury that requires the use of a cadaver part are trying to get back to their original abilit through the procedure and rehab process. For people like Braun, M. Cabrera, Cruz, Sosa, McGuire, Palmeiro, Canseco ext use PED's to make them better than their natural ability. There is a huge difference there.
Firstly, Braun used PEDs to get over a calf injury in 2011 (at least that is what the Brewers beat reporters have been able to best figure on the timeline from when he failed the test). He led the league in homers last year under a PED microscope so I'm pretty sure he wasn't on it in 2012 (but I wouldn't be shocked if he were), so he was presumably using steroids to stay on the field and entertain us. Of course it probably helped him be better, isn't that exactly what getting surgeries is all about? Doesn't having TJ surgery enhance your performance in addition to getting you back on the field? You literally take a tendon from your leg and stick it in your arm, and then you can throw the ball 95 mph again when the player was down to 89 mph or less. That, at its core, is the definition of performance enhancing, we just don't call it that. Old blood sock admits that he could not have pitched without the cadaver surgery. That, at its core, means that his performance was enhanced over what he could have done. When it's game 147 and a players team is 47-100, and he drinks a 5 hour energy before a game to "get up" for it that is potentially performance enhancing. Thus my conundrum is that we allow for some performance enhancing things and not others. You can deny it, but all of those things including drugs improves performance. So then it becomes about what? Does getting a cadaver sheeth put in your ankle, or a tendon from your leg put in your arm, etc. improve an athletes quality of life after the game? Probably not. So then, just because we have socially sanctioned weird surgeries (if you step back and think about what these doctors are doing it's weird) but have a cold war problem with steroids (just because russians and east germans invented them) one is deemed ok and the other grounds for not making the HOF and being ostracized from the game. To me that's a hypocritical logic.
i also think this argument is absurd ... PEDs are illegal in the context of the law as well as in sport use ... until that changes ... he cheated ... and broke the rules ... if you want to make a case for the allowance of PED's - that's cool ... i would be opposed ...
i think the notion presented that he used PED's to get back on the field to entertain us is also ridiculous ... he used PEDs so he can perform better so that he can make more money and to a lesser degree help his team win ... so, if you're a brewers fan - you might think it's ok but to the league, the players and the fans ... he cheated ...
but sure, go and try and get PEDs approved or get TJ surgery banned ... till then - he broke the rules ...
You don't get tommy john surgery to improve performance. Its done because there is an injury to the elbow that prevents a player from performing at their best natural ability.
No pitcher in baseball has ever taken their perfectly good 92mph arm and said "I'd like to throw 98, lets take the year off and do tommy john."
i also think this argument is absurd ... PEDs are illegal in the context of the law as well as in sport use ... until that changes ... he cheated ... and broke the rules ... if you want to make a case for the allowance of PED's - that's cool ... i would be opposed ...
i think the notion presented that he used PED's to get back on the field to entertain us is also ridiculous ... he used PEDs so he can perform better so that he can make more money and to a lesser degree help his team win ... so, if you're a brewers fan - you might think it's ok but to the league, the players and the fans ... he cheated ...
but sure, go and try and get PEDs approved or get TJ surgery banned ... till then - he broke the rules ...
In my original post I said I would be more for Braun going to jail than being kicked out of the game, and I'm making a case for PEDs. Essentially everything you said I should do, other than agree that he should be banned now. What I have an issue with is who sanctions what performance enhancing thing is ok (food, supplements, workout regimens, surgeries, etc.) and what performance enhancing things are not. If we can't stop everyone, and if we have demonstrated a complete lack of care for the athletes themselves then why not making it a free for all? Also, I have had this opinion way before Braun and actually wanted him to be the poster boy for bringing PEDs into baseball and calling out everyone's bullshit logic.
You don't get tommy john surgery to improve performance. Its done because there is an injury to the elbow that prevents a player from performing at their best natural ability.
No pitcher in baseball has ever taken their perfectly good 92mph arm and said "I'd like to throw 98, lets take the year off and do tommy john."
did you ever play baseball? kids did that shit all the time with TJ surgery...I played with 2 in college that did exactly that in high school. And no we do not care about athletes after they finish their athletic careers...unless you've been volunteering to wheel around your favorite football/basketball/baseball player post-retirement that is.
In my original post I said I would be more for Braun going to jail than being kicked out of the game, and I'm making a case for PEDs. Essentially everything you said I should do, other than agree that he should be banned now. What I have an issue with is who sanctions what performance enhancing thing is ok (food, supplements, workout regimens, surgeries, etc.) and what performance enhancing things are not. If we can't stop everyone, and if we have demonstrated a complete lack of care for the athletes themselves then why not making it a free for all? Also, I have had this opinion way before Braun and actually wanted him to be the poster boy for bringing PEDs into baseball and calling out everyone's bullshit logic.
i would say that if you can prove PEDs have no health implications - i would be supportive of it
Anyone who can't honestly say they have checked in on the health and well being of their favorite player post-retirement is equally hypocritical.
steroids are GOOD for you this is why they are prescribed to people with allergic reactions, and other medical needs. There "cancer causing" issues are vastly overblown, and, if taken on a proper cycle, actually helps athletes return from injury quicker and makes them better.
Brutal ankle fracture.......hope he's able to come back from that.
I was at the game last night. This sucks for the Braves but dont forget Beachy is coming back. I still think that this team has a lot of potential this post season.
In my original post I said I would be more for Braun going to jail than being kicked out of the game, and I'm making a case for PEDs. Essentially everything you said I should do, other than agree that he should be banned now. What I have an issue with is who sanctions what performance enhancing thing is ok (food, supplements, workout regimens, surgeries, etc.) and what performance enhancing things are not. If we can't stop everyone, and if we have demonstrated a complete lack of care for the athletes themselves then why not making it a free for all? Also, I have had this opinion way before Braun and actually wanted him to be the poster boy for bringing PEDs into baseball and calling out everyone's bullshit logic.
i would say that if you can prove PEDs have no health implications - i would be supportive of it
I used to say that, but what are the health implications of overconsuming caffeine, proteins, crazy surgeries, etc. Why do we hold PEDs to a different standard than everything else? When I got to that logical end I realized I couldn't be against them.
I used to say that, but what are the health implications of overconsuming caffeine, proteins, crazy surgeries, etc. Why do we hold PEDs to a different standard than everything else? When I got to that logical end I realized I couldn't be against them.
i think the consequences of PEDs are much more significant than caffeine ... we're talking about changes to the mental makeup - psychosis, aggression, etc. plus links to organ damage ...
sure, you can't regulate everything and most things in this world will kill ya if you overconsume it ... but you don't need to overconsume PEDs to suffer the consequences ...
now, why would you want to risk the livelihood of athletes who choose not to use PEDs?
I used to say that, but what are the health implications of overconsuming caffeine, proteins, crazy surgeries, etc. Why do we hold PEDs to a different standard than everything else? When I got to that logical end I realized I couldn't be against them.
i think the consequences of PEDs are much more significant than caffeine ... we're talking about changes to the mental makeup - psychosis, aggression, etc. plus links to organ damage ...
sure, you can't regulate everything and most things in this world will kill ya if you overconsume it ... but you don't need to overconsume PEDs to suffer the consequences ...
now, why would you want to risk the livelihood of athletes who choose not to use PEDs?
Comments
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Murder ... a capital "A" felony ... has a max fine of $20,000. Just to put things in perspective.
Braun could have went grand theft auto and not racked up that big of fine. And based on the what has been written about Braun by baseball writers versus what I saw written about Aaron Hernandez, he may have been better off just getting caught for setting a few random hobos on fire.
To me $3mil is a shitload of money to Ryan Braun it's nothing. He is still owed $120mil. Sports isn't the real world so you can't apply real world reasoning.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
I'm thinking he is losing closer to $50M over the span of his career due to this. And that's a crapton of money, even to someone like Ryan Braun.
the question is would he have garnered the salary and endorsements if he didn't take drugs? ...
i honestly think that although it is definitely a lot of money - he's not going to be crying too much over it ... as far as endorsements - that really is irrelevant ... he's facing the consequences of his actions ... it's not like he's getting screwed over here ...
plus like so many before him - when it came time to take the high road and come clean ... he lied ... he lied to his friends ... that is the big reason why so many are pissed at him ...
Endorsements are collateral damage. I don't feel bad for him. He showed his true colors when he "thought" he got away with it. Voiding contracts and banning players from the game is the only way to stop it. If they're not going to do that then let them take whatever they want.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
true that. less than 3% of his contract.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
the majority of americans want weed legal but frown upon a substance that lets you bike 2000 miles through mountains, hit 500 feet homers, and heal in half the time from what ten years ago would have been a season ending injury.
adrian peterson tore his mcl and acl on christmas eve and was starting week 1 the next season, almost set the rushing record, and won the mvp award.
terrel suggs and stabby lewis ... same thing and now they are champs.
are we more concerned about lying then getting caught? seems so.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
unlike the 3 other pro sports leagues, at least MLB is addressing the PED issue. I give the league and players credit for stepping up and instituting testing and penalties.
I don't think MLB needs to go to lifetime bans to deter these people. They need to void contracts and allow teams to get reimbursed signing bonuses by the player who gets popped.
Plus institute penalties on teams that signs players that have knowingly used PED's. (Like the blue jays and theYankees did.)
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
'This boats not safe
And we're drowning.'
Truthfully, I hope my kids, your kids, or anyone else's kids never touch PEDs as long as they are deemed illegal (the history of which is rooted more in Cold War holdovers than anything medically important - steroids are, in fact, largely good for you but that's another story). Moreover, I would be more for Ryan Braun going to jail than actually being suspended from baseball. As my friends elsewhere have pointed out, it is illegal to use steroids for non-medical reasons. However, I have come to the logical conclusion that I cannot care about steroids because:
Anyone with Tommy John, dead cadaver sheeths, and anything other than their god given body needs to fess up bc they are ruining the game. Anyone against instant replay and computer umps because it ruins the game while most certainly cleaning up "unfair advantages" caused by kids catching balls for homeruns, or plain blown calls is a hypocrite. Anyone who can't honestly say they have checked in on the health and well being of their favorite player post-retirement is equally hypocritical. When's the last time anyone of us pushed their favorite player around in a wheelchair because he can't walk most mornings? Either we computerize everything, make athletes eat the same exact diet, and make sure only athletes "natural" bodies play the game with no surgeries. Or we call it as it is - these players bodies are disposable. We only care about the entertainment they provide and when they are done we move on to the next disposable body. Who the eff cares at that point what it is they do to best entertain us? Until we, as fans, start to admit that the war on PEDs is purely antithetical to everything we hold near and dear about baseball we continue to live a lie.
Finally, if Braun has to return his MVP, and the homerun record returns to 61 or whatever bullshit number MLB wants to come up with then should the Yankees return their 2009 title because A-Rod carried them, the Sox in 2007 because Manny Ramirez saved their ass, the 2004 Sox because Curt Schilling used a cadaver's body to enhance his performance, the 1985 Mets and 1979 Pirates for cocaine, Michael Schmidt return his MVP for amphetamine use, and so on and so on? Thus my logic is either clean the whole thing up and regulate everything, or make it a free for all. Anything else is necessarily logically hypocritical.
I think its absurd to compare someone having tommy john surgery to using PED's. People that need tommy john surgery or that has an injury that requires the use of a cadaver part are trying to get back to their original abilit through the procedure and rehab process. For people like Braun, M. Cabrera, Cruz, Sosa, McGuire, Palmeiro, Canseco ext use PED's to make them better than their natural ability. There is a huge difference there.
i think the notion presented that he used PED's to get back on the field to entertain us is also ridiculous ... he used PEDs so he can perform better so that he can make more money and to a lesser degree help his team win ... so, if you're a brewers fan - you might think it's ok but to the league, the players and the fans ... he cheated ...
but sure, go and try and get PEDs approved or get TJ surgery banned ... till then - he broke the rules ...
No pitcher in baseball has ever taken their perfectly good 92mph arm and said "I'd like to throw 98, lets take the year off and do tommy john."
Because they're bad for you, and it could trickle down to college, high school, little league...
We havent demonstrated a complete lack of care for athletes. Sorry, this makes no sense whatsoever:
i would say that if you can prove PEDs have no health implications - i would be supportive of it
I was at the game last night. This sucks for the Braves but dont forget Beachy is coming back. I still think that this team has a lot of potential this post season.
2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
2017: RRHoF 4/7 2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4 2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18
2022: MSG 9/11 2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
i think the consequences of PEDs are much more significant than caffeine ... we're talking about changes to the mental makeup - psychosis, aggression, etc. plus links to organ damage ...
sure, you can't regulate everything and most things in this world will kill ya if you overconsume it ... but you don't need to overconsume PEDs to suffer the consequences ...
now, why would you want to risk the livelihood of athletes who choose not to use PEDs?
i haven't seen it but the write up below doesn't seem to support your argument whatsoever ...