Is our society regressing?

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mikepegg44 wrote:

scb wrote:

Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:

1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.

These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.

there has always been a tolerance/group divide here and in other countries. it isn't simply a US phenomenon. And yes 10 years ago people like those you talk about were just as involved. I really think any example of how we are intolerant can be balanced out by a good one that shows how tolerant and fantastic our society is. Don't get politics mixed up with the people of this country. If all you ever do is focus on the bad in our society (like the 24 hour news cycle always does) then it sure looks like things are getting worse.

In fact, if you listened to nancy grace it seems like every kid in america is being abused and kidnapped and murdered, but that isn't the case. Rates have gone down for years.
Don't let politicians and the news cycles confuse you as to what our society is really like.

I know it's not the news cycles giving me this impression because I don't watch (or listen to) the "news". I probably get this idea primarily from this message board, and that influences of my ideas about the people of this country in addition to the politics (which are made possible by the people of this country). But regardless of people's opinions about the things I listed, the fact is that they did happen (and are still happening). I guess I feel like, although there were intolerant people 10 years ago, they seem to have more power now (like the ability to get these laws passed).

I know there are plenty of good things for every bad thing, but I don't think that means the bad things shouldn't still bother people. (Your comment kind of reminds me of my ex-boyfriend's logic. It was something like, "Well, yes, I may have slept with that other woman, but I ALSO a great boyfriend for the past month - so now it balances out and you shouldn't be upset.")

Also, I know it's not just a U.S. phenomenon, but I'm concerned about the U.S. because this is my country. If I lived in another country I'd be looking at their society.

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cincybearcat wrote:

scb wrote:

Am I the only one who fears lately that as a society we are moving backward instead of forward? Has anyone else noticed an increase in intolerance and injustice and a decrease in compassion and humanity? Are people more self-interested than they used to be? Is our chauvinism and xenophobia getting stronger? Has it been this way all along and I'm just starting to notice? Is this message board just totally warping my sense of reality? I spoke with some friends about it today who know nothing of this message board and they think it really is getting worse. What do you think?

ETA: I guess the follow-up questions are: If this is really happening, why? And what can we do about it?

I disagree. I think it is being talked about more, and that is progress. I think you have to be able to understand that others may have a differing viewpoint...and the world doesn't have to follow your viewpoint on all things. And if the world doesn't, it doesn't mean that it's regression everytime.

I absolutely do not think the world has to follow my viewpoint on all things. But haven't you noticed any lack of critical thinking skills? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you have an opinion about something you should be able to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, should you not? Or haven't you noticed any lack of empathy?

cincybearcat

scb wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

scb wrote:

Am I the only one who fears lately that as a society we are moving backward instead of forward? Has anyone else noticed an increase in intolerance and injustice and a decrease in compassion and humanity? Are people more self-interested than they used to be? Is our chauvinism and xenophobia getting stronger? Has it been this way all along and I'm just starting to notice? Is this message board just totally warping my sense of reality? I spoke with some friends about it today who know nothing of this message board and they think it really is getting worse. What do you think?

ETA: I guess the follow-up questions are: If this is really happening, why? And what can we do about it?

I disagree. I think it is being talked about more, and that is progress. I think you have to be able to understand that others may have a differing viewpoint...and the world doesn't have to follow your viewpoint on all things. And if the world doesn't, it doesn't mean that it's regression everytime.

I absolutely do not think the world has to follow my viewpoint on all things. But haven't you noticed any lack of critical thinking skills? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you have an opinion about something you should be able to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, should you not? Or haven't you noticed any lack of empathy?

You don't think homosexuals were discriminated against before? How about people of different races? From different countries?

I think it is now being discussed more and more. While the majority opinion on some of these issues is far from what I would hope, it's no longer behind the door. That's a step in the right direction. Of course, with every step, the opposing viewpoint fights back so usually you stumble back some (2 steps forward, 1 step back). But it is still progress. I see where you are coming from, but I don't see it as regression as much as I see it as slow (sometimes very slow) progress. The rate of progress is slower than you would like, but that doesn't mean regression. my opinion anyhow.

mikepegg44

scb wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

scb wrote:

Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:

1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.

These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.

there has always been a tolerance/group divide here and in other countries. it isn't simply a US phenomenon. And yes 10 years ago people like those you talk about were just as involved. I really think any example of how we are intolerant can be balanced out by a good one that shows how tolerant and fantastic our society is. Don't get politics mixed up with the people of this country. If all you ever do is focus on the bad in our society (like the 24 hour news cycle always does) then it sure looks like things are getting worse.

In fact, if you listened to nancy grace it seems like every kid in america is being abused and kidnapped and murdered, but that isn't the case. Rates have gone down for years.
Don't let politicians and the news cycles confuse you as to what our society is really like.

I know it's not the news cycles giving me this impression because I don't watch (or listen to) the "news". I probably get this idea primarily from this message board, and that influences of my ideas about the people of this country in addition to the politics (which are made possible by the people of this country). But regardless of people's opinions about the things I listed, the fact is that they did happen (and are still happening). I guess I feel like, although there were intolerant people 10 years ago, they seem to have more power now (like the ability to get these laws passed).

I know there are plenty of good things for every bad thing, but I don't think that means the bad things shouldn't still bother people. (Your comment kind of reminds me of my ex-boyfriend's logic. It was something like, "Well, yes, I may have slept with that other woman, but I ALSO a great boyfriend for the past month - so now it balances out and you shouldn't be upset.")

Also, I know it's not just a U.S. phenomenon, but I'm concerned about the U.S. because this is my country. If I lived in another country I'd be looking at their society.

fair enough. if this message board is where you are shaping your ideas about politics I worry about you. Someones true feelings cannot be expressed in small statements on a board. Bad things will always bother people, but they don't happen with more frequency anymore now than they did 10 - 20 years ago. Arizona is broke as a state. They start grasping at things that are seen as a big cost. It didn't come up 10 years ago because the state wasn't almost bankrupt. Once that starts happening every program and every cost cutting measure in the books is thrown around. if we all have a million apples no one will care when some go rotten and some get stolen and some get taken. But if you cut it down to 10 apples a person then people will start counting every one they see. Hopefully that made sense to you.
That being said, I am 100% positive that everyone in the legislature for Arizona who voted for that bill is not racist. I am also 100% positive that all the support it has throughout the country is not due to racism.
i think the fact that someone comes out and says start acting less gay and then is crucified by the majority of Americans for such a stupid statement should tell you that America is a great place to live. Not only to do stupid people get to say just about anything they want, those same stupid people will be marginalized by the majority of the country.
I don't know, I see a lot of shit everyday, lots of horrible stories and terrible outcomes, but I realize that out of all those stories there are positives and there are a lot of great people out there.

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scb wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

I absolutely do not think the world has to follow my viewpoint on all things. But haven't you noticed any lack of critical thinking skills? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you have an opinion about something you should be able to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, should you not? Or haven't you noticed any lack of empathy?

You don't think homosexuals were discriminated against before? How about people of different races? From different countries?

I think it is now being discussed more and more. While the majority opinion on some of these issues is far from what I would hope, it's no longer behind the door. That's a step in the right direction. Of course, with every step, the opposing viewpoint fights back so usually you stumble back some (2 steps forward, 1 step back). But it is still progress. I see where you are coming from, but I don't see it as regression as much as I see it as slow (sometimes very slow) progress. The rate of progress is slower than you would like, but that doesn't mean regression. my opinion anyhow.

Yes, of course people were discriminated against before. It just seems to me to be more acceptable and more mainstream now than it was 10 years ago.

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mikepegg44 wrote:

fair enough. if this message board is where you are shaping your ideas about politics I worry about you.

Yeah, me too. :oops: This isn't the only place where I discuss politics, but most of the other people with whom I discuss politics are relatively like-minded, so this is probably the primary place where I hear a wide variety of perspectives.

mikepegg44 wrote:

Someones true feelings cannot be expressed in small statements on a board. Bad things will always bother people, but they don't happen with more frequency anymore now than they did 10 - 20 years ago. Arizona is broke as a state. They start grasping at things that are seen as a big cost. It didn't come up 10 years ago because the state wasn't almost bankrupt. Once that starts happening every program and every cost cutting measure in the books is thrown around. if we all have a million apples no one will care when some go rotten and some get stolen and some get taken. But if you cut it down to 10 apples a person then people will start counting every one they see. Hopefully that made sense to you.

It seems like you're more or less saying people think more about themselves & their resources when they perceive that they've hit hard times, no? I think this is true. I also think the "news" outlets know this is true, and that's why they're so adamant about promoting fear.

mikepegg44 wrote:

That being said, I am 100% positive that everyone in the legislature for Arizona who voted for that bill is not racist. I am also 100% positive that all the support it has throughout the country is not due to racism.

Did you mean to say that NOT EVERYONE in the legislature is racist instead of EVERYONE IS NOT racist? And did you mean to say that NOT ALL the support is due to racism instead of ALL the support IS NOT due to racism? Because those mean very different things and I can agree with one but not the other.

But please note that (I'm pretty sure) I haven't said that the people are racist; I've said that the bill is racist. I don't think it matters so much that the people themselves are not racist (and who's to say whether they are or aren't?). I think what matters is that they reinforce racism by supporting a racist bill, whether or not that is their intent.

mikepegg44 wrote:

i think the fact that someone comes out and says start acting less gay and then is crucified by the majority of Americans for such a stupid statement should tell you that America is a great place to live. Not only to do stupid people get to say just about anything they want, those same stupid people will be marginalized by the majority of the country.

Good point. But the verdict is still out on whether those people will really be marginalized. We'll have to wait and see whether or not the people choose again at the polls that this is the man who represents them.

mikepegg44

I am also probably one of the ones that gives you the view that people are becoming less tolerant and less caring about people on this board. But that really couldn't be further from the truth in my case anyway. I love people, they are great, some are stupid and some are assholes, but for the most part they are always entertaining. But when DJ are let go for saying dumb things about a group of women, or senators are more or less forced out of office for comments like if strom had been elected we wouldn't have had all "those" problems, you need to say to yourself, the majority do get it. It just isn't everyone, and unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) they have the ability to voice that opinion, and that opinion may be the majority in small pockets of the US, but it isn't the majority of the country. Hopefully that makes sense.
and yes, that is what I meant about the 100% racist comment. I meant it to mean that not everyone who supports the bill is racist.

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scb wrote:

scb wrote:

Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:

1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.

These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.

4. The belief that homosexual people should act like they are heterosexual if they want to avoid discrimination, but discrimination shouldn't be banned.

5. The anti-Muslim sentiment, including the rejection of any attempt to create peace that includes Muslims and the idea that Americans citizens who practice Islam are not really American and have no right to be here.

6. Just, in general, the belief that anyone who does not look like, speak like, eat like, have sex like, pray like "us" is not a legitimate American deserving of the same rights and respect that "we" are.