Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.
However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!
I hadn't seen this video, related to some of the racism in South Africa- You can see the power people hold over one another- just by the comments/threats/ and body language......it's sad........
just thought I'd share it-
It all flows together. When people said spanking was abuse and we became hyphenated Americans is when this started. We are raising a nation of crybabies and are so afraid to offend someone.
It also started due to a decline in family values.
oh i gotcha when you say 'our' society you are speaking of american society. my apologies.
but i am interested to hear you define family values.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Unsung - I completely disagree with you about the notion of "something" American. This has always been a big facet in our nation as the melting pot, I personally feel it has more to do with things like immigration policy and all that goes into why someone would want to become a citizen - there's no incentive but tons of harms. And perhaps you and many others feel "proud" to call yourself an American, but I highly doubt if having the shoe on the other foot and you being in that non-citizen's shoes, you'd be running to go through that process. Much easier said than done my friend - whether it's tests, documents, paperwork, tons of fees or threat of being kicked out, certainly not any type of process people would line up for in the best of cases.
Also, can you please define "family values" (another poster asked as well). Last I recall, divorce rates (http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Historical_Divorce_Rate_Statistics) have steadily gone up with significant increases from the 70's and on. Certainly not blaming any one group or cause, but I think some of it has to do with womens' rights and a more balanced society in terms of working, careers, family, general respect and equality. I'd hardly call that a decline in values though, more so an improvement. Maybe it's really a very offhand way of saying men suck and all the Archie Bunker's and Ward Cleaver's couldn't keep Betty Homemaker in line anymore? But that's just my 2 cents.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Yes our society is regressing. Today in Detroit at Comerica Park the had Ernie Harwell (long time Tiger radio play by play man who passed away Tuesday at 92) there for public viewing with an open casket and people were actually taking picture of the casket and apparently posing in front of it. Those people are sick, twisted fucks.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.
However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!
I think race equality is certainly better improved between, say, now and the '50s. But what about the last, say, 2-10 years? Do you think there's been any backsliding?
I think JoeJoeJoe is merely pointing out albeit we do see some polarization of beliefs which bring out hatred, I think we look at many state passing gay marriage and it becoming more "normalized" in society as well as the fact of our first black president, they are poignant markers of progress. Certainly far from removal of discrimination, hatred or full acceptance, but a good, important step in the road of progress.
Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.
However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!
I think race equality is certainly better improved between, say, now and the '50s. But what about the last, say, 2-10 years? Do you think there's been any backsliding?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Agreed. I think Joseph Campbell has had a very profound impact on society and culture... yet very few people know who he is. He explains so much about about mythology, sociology, psychology, religion, anthropology, etc... yet it is all boils down to a very simple message; the hero monomyth.
"We are our own dragons as well as our own heroes, and we must rescue ourselves from ourselves."
It all flows together. When people said spanking was abuse and we became hyphenated Americans is when this started. We are raising a nation of crybabies and are so afraid to offend someone.
It also started due to a decline in family values.
...
Political correctness? Are you being serious or just throwing that out there for effect? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not protecting Political Correctness but it has made me aware of others.
I'm surprized because you seem more atuned to politics than most. But, Political Correctness???
And guess what? Political Correctness is not a law. If you want to beat your kids with a belt, that's your call. If you want to call people 'Niggers', you can. If you want to treat women as subserviants, go ahead. If you want to tell Pollack jokes, have at it. No one is stopping you. You want to do all of that, do it.
And to top it off... 'Family Values'? Whose values are we supposed to follow, Yours? The Gambino Family's? The Gotti Family's? The Manson Family's? Or maybe the conservative family values of Family Research Council ( http://www.frc.org/issues ).
If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.
So, if you want to tell us a story about how some guy tried to 'Jew you down' on the trade-in value of your used car, you can. This is still America and you have the right to not give a shit about anyone else but you.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. To me, it's a symptom of our lack of empathy. I've spent the last few days at a public health conference. It was so refreshing (I don't know why I've come back here) and full of people talking about nothing but what we can do to help make our society a better place. Not once did I hear anyone say, "It's "their" own damn fault. It's not my fault so it's not my problem. Instead of finding out how I can help, I'm going to just sit around and complain about the world and blame everyone else for not taking personal responsibility while at the same time failing to take any responsibility of my own for the well-being of my society." Instead, everyone said, "Our lives and health may be good, but we know not everyone in this nation has the same experiences of life and health. Let's try to understand the world through their perspectives and experiences, identify health disparities, and brainstorm ideas about how we can help the situation, even if it doesn't directly affect us." It kind of reminded me of the whole notion of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Why are there not more people like this in the world, or on this board? Why is it SO fucking hard for some people to understand that not everyone experiences life in the same way and actually want to empathize with others' perspectives? Why do so many people just want to sit back and point fingers and judge situations and people they don't even know? I really don't get it. :? :(
I guess I was thinking more about lack of empathy and critical thinking skills. (Which is not to say that everything's not intertwined.) Anyone have thoughts on this?
well I think that there has always been a lack of empathy, maybe when communities were smaller and more connected there was more of a willingness to help however by the definition of empathy, people have always struggled with that. it is human nature
there has been a significant decline in critical thinking and it could be blamed on a lot things, in general the dumbing down of our society. people want to think less..... 40+ hour work weeks, TV, mass media, video games etc....
If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. To me, it's a symptom of our lack of empathy.
Me too. But I'm confused in how you're seeing it as regressing scb. America was more united and commuity minded in yesteryear, so what how exactly are we regressing, and regressing to? I view the lack of values and selfishness in American society today as a whole new wave of narcissism and lack of caring and empathy.
It's difficult to blame any few things for this new lack of compassion and empathy. There's so many factors that contribute to the social realm in how society "works".
If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.
I whole-heartedly agree with this. To me, it's a symptom of our lack of empathy.
Me too. But I'm confused in how you're seeing it as regressing scb. America was more united and commuity minded in yesteryear, so what how exactly are we regressing, and regressing to? I view the lack of values and selfishness in American society today as a whole new wave of narcissism and lack of caring and empathy.
It's difficult to blame any few things for this new lack of compassion and empathy. There's so many factors that contribute to the social realm in how society "works".
I'm not really sure I understand your question. If we used to be more united and community-minded in yesteryear and now we are selfish and narcissistic and lack values, caring, and empathy, to me that's a step backward = regressing. No?
I'm not really sure I understand your question. If we used to be more united and community-minded in yesteryear and now we are selfish and narcissistic and lack values, caring, and empathy, to me that's a step backward = regressing. No?
Oh I see how you're using the word now, it's just not what I automatically thought of. I was thinking of this definition: "to revert to an earlier or less advanced state or form".
BTW, and I've been thinking about this for a while...when I finally am able to go home from rehab (still in from my accident), I'm going to have my own little social experiment. I'm going to be paying attention to how I'm treated in public (I'm temporarily disabled). I'll have a walker and a wheelchair, a frozen hand (from nerve damage), and a skin graft covering a fasciotomy on my arm that's large and not pretty. I know how society is about looks. And although I'll keep my arm covered all summer, I don't like the stigma that goes with appearance. It's my scar, I own it. So I may just not feel like covering all the time to please everyone else. It's life!
I'm not really sure I understand your question. If we used to be more united and community-minded in yesteryear and now we are selfish and narcissistic and lack values, caring, and empathy, to me that's a step backward = regressing. No?
Oh I see how you're using the word now, it's just not what I automatically thought of. I was thinking of this definition: "to revert to an earlier or less advanced state or form".
BTW, and I've been thinking about this for a while...when I finally am able to go home from rehab (still in from my accident), I'm going to have my own little social experiment. I'm going to be paying attention to how I'm treated in public (I'm temporarily disabled). I'll have a walker and a wheelchair, a frozen hand (from nerve damage), and a skin graft covering a fasciotomy on my arm that's large and not pretty. I know how society is about looks. And although I'll keep my arm covered all summer, I don't like the stigma that goes with appearance. It's my scar, I own it. So I may just not feel like covering all the time to please everyone else. It's life!
I thought I was using that definition too, but I guess it's just semantics.
I'm glad you're doing better since your accident, and it's inspiring to know that you have such a positive attitude. I'm curious about your social experiment. Please do report back to us about how it goes.
Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.
However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!
I think race equality is certainly better improved between, say, now and the '50s. But what about the last, say, 2-10 years? Do you think there's been any backsliding?
One thing I have found frustrating and more than a little offensive in the last few years is the tendency of some people to use someone's race against them in a public forum. All those people are doing is pandering to the fears of the lowest common denominator, illustrating that this person must be bad, because they have a funny name.
It's happened on both sides of the aisle too - in addition to certain people stressing the fact that Obama's middle name is Hussein, there were people in Louisiana who made a point of constantly bringing up the fact that Bobby Jindal's real first name is Piyush when he was running for governor.
From where I'm sitting, having the middle name Hussein doesn't make you any less qualified to be president than having the first name Piyush does to be governor. But still, there are people who would never vote for anyone with the name Hussein, and people who would never vote for anyone named Piyush, and it was sad/sickening/embarrassing to see certain factions shamelessly take advantage of that in such a public manner.
And I listen for the voice inside my head... nothing. I'll do this one myself.
Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:
1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.
These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.
Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:
1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.
These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.
4. The belief that homosexual people should act like they are heterosexual if they want to avoid discrimination, but discrimination shouldn't be banned.
Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:
1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.
These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.
there has always been a tolerance/group divide here and in other countries. it isn't simply a US phenomenon. And yes 10 years ago people like those you talk about were just as involved. I really think any example of how we are intolerant can be balanced out by a good one that shows how tolerant and fantastic our society is. Don't get politics mixed up with the people of this country. If all you ever do is focus on the bad in our society (like the 24 hour news cycle always does) then it sure looks like things are getting worse.
In fact, if you listened to nancy grace it seems like every kid in america is being abused and kidnapped and murdered, but that isn't the case. Rates have gone down for years.
Don't let politicians and the news cycles confuse you as to what our society is really like.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Am I the only one who fears lately that as a society we are moving backward instead of forward? Has anyone else noticed an increase in intolerance and injustice and a decrease in compassion and humanity? Are people more self-interested than they used to be? Is our chauvinism and xenophobia getting stronger? Has it been this way all along and I'm just starting to notice? Is this message board just totally warping my sense of reality? I spoke with some friends about it today who know nothing of this message board and they think it really is getting worse. What do you think?
ETA: I guess the follow-up questions are: If this is really happening, why? And what can we do about it?
I disagree. I think it is being talked about more, and that is progress. I think you have to be able to understand that others may have a differing viewpoint...and the world doesn't have to follow your viewpoint on all things. And if the world doesn't, it doesn't mean that it's regression everytime.
Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:
1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.
These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.
there has always been a tolerance/group divide here and in other countries. it isn't simply a US phenomenon. And yes 10 years ago people like those you talk about were just as involved. I really think any example of how we are intolerant can be balanced out by a good one that shows how tolerant and fantastic our society is. Don't get politics mixed up with the people of this country. If all you ever do is focus on the bad in our society (like the 24 hour news cycle always does) then it sure looks like things are getting worse.
In fact, if you listened to nancy grace it seems like every kid in america is being abused and kidnapped and murdered, but that isn't the case. Rates have gone down for years.
Don't let politicians and the news cycles confuse you as to what our society is really like.
I know it's not the news cycles giving me this impression because I don't watch (or listen to) the "news". I probably get this idea primarily from this message board, and that influences of my ideas about the people of this country in addition to the politics (which are made possible by the people of this country). But regardless of people's opinions about the things I listed, the fact is that they did happen (and are still happening). I guess I feel like, although there were intolerant people 10 years ago, they seem to have more power now (like the ability to get these laws passed).
I know there are plenty of good things for every bad thing, but I don't think that means the bad things shouldn't still bother people. (Your comment kind of reminds me of my ex-boyfriend's logic. It was something like, "Well, yes, I may have slept with that other woman, but I ALSO a great boyfriend for the past month - so now it balances out and you shouldn't be upset.")
Also, I know it's not just a U.S. phenomenon, but I'm concerned about the U.S. because this is my country. If I lived in another country I'd be looking at their society.
Am I the only one who fears lately that as a society we are moving backward instead of forward? Has anyone else noticed an increase in intolerance and injustice and a decrease in compassion and humanity? Are people more self-interested than they used to be? Is our chauvinism and xenophobia getting stronger? Has it been this way all along and I'm just starting to notice? Is this message board just totally warping my sense of reality? I spoke with some friends about it today who know nothing of this message board and they think it really is getting worse. What do you think?
ETA: I guess the follow-up questions are: If this is really happening, why? And what can we do about it?
I disagree. I think it is being talked about more, and that is progress. I think you have to be able to understand that others may have a differing viewpoint...and the world doesn't have to follow your viewpoint on all things. And if the world doesn't, it doesn't mean that it's regression everytime.
I absolutely do not think the world has to follow my viewpoint on all things. But haven't you noticed any lack of critical thinking skills? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you have an opinion about something you should be able to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, should you not? Or haven't you noticed any lack of empathy?
Am I the only one who fears lately that as a society we are moving backward instead of forward? Has anyone else noticed an increase in intolerance and injustice and a decrease in compassion and humanity? Are people more self-interested than they used to be? Is our chauvinism and xenophobia getting stronger? Has it been this way all along and I'm just starting to notice? Is this message board just totally warping my sense of reality? I spoke with some friends about it today who know nothing of this message board and they think it really is getting worse. What do you think?
ETA: I guess the follow-up questions are: If this is really happening, why? And what can we do about it?
I disagree. I think it is being talked about more, and that is progress. I think you have to be able to understand that others may have a differing viewpoint...and the world doesn't have to follow your viewpoint on all things. And if the world doesn't, it doesn't mean that it's regression everytime.
I absolutely do not think the world has to follow my viewpoint on all things. But haven't you noticed any lack of critical thinking skills? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you have an opinion about something you should be able to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, should you not? Or haven't you noticed any lack of empathy?
You don't think homosexuals were discriminated against before? How about people of different races? From different countries?
I think it is now being discussed more and more. While the majority opinion on some of these issues is far from what I would hope, it's no longer behind the door. That's a step in the right direction. Of course, with every step, the opposing viewpoint fights back so usually you stumble back some (2 steps forward, 1 step back). But it is still progress. I see where you are coming from, but I don't see it as regression as much as I see it as slow (sometimes very slow) progress. The rate of progress is slower than you would like, but that doesn't mean regression. my opinion anyhow.
Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:
1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.
These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.
there has always been a tolerance/group divide here and in other countries. it isn't simply a US phenomenon. And yes 10 years ago people like those you talk about were just as involved. I really think any example of how we are intolerant can be balanced out by a good one that shows how tolerant and fantastic our society is. Don't get politics mixed up with the people of this country. If all you ever do is focus on the bad in our society (like the 24 hour news cycle always does) then it sure looks like things are getting worse.
In fact, if you listened to nancy grace it seems like every kid in america is being abused and kidnapped and murdered, but that isn't the case. Rates have gone down for years.
Don't let politicians and the news cycles confuse you as to what our society is really like.
I know it's not the news cycles giving me this impression because I don't watch (or listen to) the "news". I probably get this idea primarily from this message board, and that influences of my ideas about the people of this country in addition to the politics (which are made possible by the people of this country). But regardless of people's opinions about the things I listed, the fact is that they did happen (and are still happening). I guess I feel like, although there were intolerant people 10 years ago, they seem to have more power now (like the ability to get these laws passed).
I know there are plenty of good things for every bad thing, but I don't think that means the bad things shouldn't still bother people. (Your comment kind of reminds me of my ex-boyfriend's logic. It was something like, "Well, yes, I may have slept with that other woman, but I ALSO a great boyfriend for the past month - so now it balances out and you shouldn't be upset.")
Also, I know it's not just a U.S. phenomenon, but I'm concerned about the U.S. because this is my country. If I lived in another country I'd be looking at their society.
fair enough. if this message board is where you are shaping your ideas about politics I worry about you. Someones true feelings cannot be expressed in small statements on a board. Bad things will always bother people, but they don't happen with more frequency anymore now than they did 10 - 20 years ago. Arizona is broke as a state. They start grasping at things that are seen as a big cost. It didn't come up 10 years ago because the state wasn't almost bankrupt. Once that starts happening every program and every cost cutting measure in the books is thrown around. if we all have a million apples no one will care when some go rotten and some get stolen and some get taken. But if you cut it down to 10 apples a person then people will start counting every one they see. Hopefully that made sense to you.
That being said, I am 100% positive that everyone in the legislature for Arizona who voted for that bill is not racist. I am also 100% positive that all the support it has throughout the country is not due to racism.
i think the fact that someone comes out and says start acting less gay and then is crucified by the majority of Americans for such a stupid statement should tell you that America is a great place to live. Not only to do stupid people get to say just about anything they want, those same stupid people will be marginalized by the majority of the country.
I don't know, I see a lot of shit everyday, lots of horrible stories and terrible outcomes, but I realize that out of all those stories there are positives and there are a lot of great people out there.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I absolutely do not think the world has to follow my viewpoint on all things. But haven't you noticed any lack of critical thinking skills? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you have an opinion about something you should be able to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, should you not? Or haven't you noticed any lack of empathy?
You don't think homosexuals were discriminated against before? How about people of different races? From different countries?
I think it is now being discussed more and more. While the majority opinion on some of these issues is far from what I would hope, it's no longer behind the door. That's a step in the right direction. Of course, with every step, the opposing viewpoint fights back so usually you stumble back some (2 steps forward, 1 step back). But it is still progress. I see where you are coming from, but I don't see it as regression as much as I see it as slow (sometimes very slow) progress. The rate of progress is slower than you would like, but that doesn't mean regression. my opinion anyhow.
Yes, of course people were discriminated against before. It just seems to me to be more acceptable and more mainstream now than it was 10 years ago.
fair enough. if this message board is where you are shaping your ideas about politics I worry about you.
Yeah, me too. :oops: This isn't the only place where I discuss politics, but most of the other people with whom I discuss politics are relatively like-minded, so this is probably the primary place where I hear a wide variety of perspectives.
Someones true feelings cannot be expressed in small statements on a board. Bad things will always bother people, but they don't happen with more frequency anymore now than they did 10 - 20 years ago. Arizona is broke as a state. They start grasping at things that are seen as a big cost. It didn't come up 10 years ago because the state wasn't almost bankrupt. Once that starts happening every program and every cost cutting measure in the books is thrown around. if we all have a million apples no one will care when some go rotten and some get stolen and some get taken. But if you cut it down to 10 apples a person then people will start counting every one they see. Hopefully that made sense to you.
It seems like you're more or less saying people think more about themselves & their resources when they perceive that they've hit hard times, no? I think this is true. I also think the "news" outlets know this is true, and that's why they're so adamant about promoting fear.
That being said, I am 100% positive that everyone in the legislature for Arizona who voted for that bill is not racist. I am also 100% positive that all the support it has throughout the country is not due to racism.
Did you mean to say that NOT EVERYONE in the legislature is racist instead of EVERYONE IS NOT racist? And did you mean to say that NOT ALL the support is due to racism instead of ALL the support IS NOT due to racism? Because those mean very different things and I can agree with one but not the other.
But please note that (I'm pretty sure) I haven't said that the people are racist; I've said that the bill is racist. I don't think it matters so much that the people themselves are not racist (and who's to say whether they are or aren't?). I think what matters is that they reinforce racism by supporting a racist bill, whether or not that is their intent.
i think the fact that someone comes out and says start acting less gay and then is crucified by the majority of Americans for such a stupid statement should tell you that America is a great place to live. Not only to do stupid people get to say just about anything they want, those same stupid people will be marginalized by the majority of the country.
Good point. But the verdict is still out on whether those people will really be marginalized. We'll have to wait and see whether or not the people choose again at the polls that this is the man who represents them.
I am also probably one of the ones that gives you the view that people are becoming less tolerant and less caring about people on this board. But that really couldn't be further from the truth in my case anyway. I love people, they are great, some are stupid and some are assholes, but for the most part they are always entertaining. But when DJ are let go for saying dumb things about a group of women, or senators are more or less forced out of office for comments like if strom had been elected we wouldn't have had all "those" problems, you need to say to yourself, the majority do get it. It just isn't everyone, and unfortunately or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) they have the ability to voice that opinion, and that opinion may be the majority in small pockets of the US, but it isn't the majority of the country. Hopefully that makes sense.
and yes, that is what I meant about the 100% racist comment. I meant it to mean that not everyone who supports the bill is racist.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:
1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.
These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.
4. The belief that homosexual people should act like they are heterosexual if they want to avoid discrimination, but discrimination shouldn't be banned.
5. The anti-Muslim sentiment, including the rejection of any attempt to create peace that includes Muslims and the idea that Americans citizens who practice Islam are not really American and have no right to be here.
6. Just, in general, the belief that anyone who does not look like, speak like, eat like, have sex like, pray like "us" is not a legitimate American deserving of the same rights and respect that "we" are.
Comments
I hadn't seen this video, related to some of the racism in South Africa- You can see the power people hold over one another- just by the comments/threats/ and body language......it's sad........
just thought I'd share it-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/0 ... 31621.html
oh i gotcha when you say 'our' society you are speaking of american society. my apologies.
but i am interested to hear you define family values.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Also, can you please define "family values" (another poster asked as well). Last I recall, divorce rates (http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Historical_Divorce_Rate_Statistics) have steadily gone up with significant increases from the 70's and on. Certainly not blaming any one group or cause, but I think some of it has to do with womens' rights and a more balanced society in terms of working, careers, family, general respect and equality. I'd hardly call that a decline in values though, more so an improvement. Maybe it's really a very offhand way of saying men suck and all the Archie Bunker's and Ward Cleaver's couldn't keep Betty Homemaker in line anymore? But that's just my 2 cents.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Oh. :oops: Well I still disagree, but I guess it's not the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
I think race equality is certainly better improved between, say, now and the '50s. But what about the last, say, 2-10 years? Do you think there's been any backsliding?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Agreed. I think Joseph Campbell has had a very profound impact on society and culture... yet very few people know who he is. He explains so much about about mythology, sociology, psychology, religion, anthropology, etc... yet it is all boils down to a very simple message; the hero monomyth.
"We are our own dragons as well as our own heroes, and we must rescue ourselves from ourselves."
-that is Tom Robbins... but fitting nonetheless.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58437512@N00/4586107767/
Political correctness? Are you being serious or just throwing that out there for effect? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not protecting Political Correctness but it has made me aware of others.
I'm surprized because you seem more atuned to politics than most. But, Political Correctness???
And guess what? Political Correctness is not a law. If you want to beat your kids with a belt, that's your call. If you want to call people 'Niggers', you can. If you want to treat women as subserviants, go ahead. If you want to tell Pollack jokes, have at it. No one is stopping you. You want to do all of that, do it.
And to top it off... 'Family Values'? Whose values are we supposed to follow, Yours? The Gambino Family's? The Gotti Family's? The Manson Family's? Or maybe the conservative family values of Family Research Council ( http://www.frc.org/issues ).
If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.
So, if you want to tell us a story about how some guy tried to 'Jew you down' on the trade-in value of your used car, you can. This is still America and you have the right to not give a shit about anyone else but you.
Hail, Hail!!!
I whole-heartedly agree with this. To me, it's a symptom of our lack of empathy. I've spent the last few days at a public health conference. It was so refreshing (I don't know why I've come back here) and full of people talking about nothing but what we can do to help make our society a better place. Not once did I hear anyone say, "It's "their" own damn fault. It's not my fault so it's not my problem. Instead of finding out how I can help, I'm going to just sit around and complain about the world and blame everyone else for not taking personal responsibility while at the same time failing to take any responsibility of my own for the well-being of my society." Instead, everyone said, "Our lives and health may be good, but we know not everyone in this nation has the same experiences of life and health. Let's try to understand the world through their perspectives and experiences, identify health disparities, and brainstorm ideas about how we can help the situation, even if it doesn't directly affect us." It kind of reminded me of the whole notion of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Why are there not more people like this in the world, or on this board? Why is it SO fucking hard for some people to understand that not everyone experiences life in the same way and actually want to empathize with others' perspectives? Why do so many people just want to sit back and point fingers and judge situations and people they don't even know? I really don't get it. :? :(
well I think that there has always been a lack of empathy, maybe when communities were smaller and more connected there was more of a willingness to help however by the definition of empathy, people have always struggled with that. it is human nature
there has been a significant decline in critical thinking and it could be blamed on a lot things, in general the dumbing down of our society. people want to think less..... 40+ hour work weeks, TV, mass media, video games etc....
It's difficult to blame any few things for this new lack of compassion and empathy. There's so many factors that contribute to the social realm in how society "works".
I'm not really sure I understand your question. If we used to be more united and community-minded in yesteryear and now we are selfish and narcissistic and lack values, caring, and empathy, to me that's a step backward = regressing. No?
Oh I see how you're using the word now, it's just not what I automatically thought of. I was thinking of this definition: "to revert to an earlier or less advanced state or form".
BTW, and I've been thinking about this for a while...when I finally am able to go home from rehab (still in from my accident), I'm going to have my own little social experiment. I'm going to be paying attention to how I'm treated in public (I'm temporarily disabled). I'll have a walker and a wheelchair, a frozen hand (from nerve damage), and a skin graft covering a fasciotomy on my arm that's large and not pretty. I know how society is about looks. And although I'll keep my arm covered all summer, I don't like the stigma that goes with appearance. It's my scar, I own it. So I may just not feel like covering all the time to please everyone else. It's life!
I thought I was using that definition too, but I guess it's just semantics.
I'm glad you're doing better since your accident, and it's inspiring to know that you have such a positive attitude. I'm curious about your social experiment. Please do report back to us about how it goes.
One thing I have found frustrating and more than a little offensive in the last few years is the tendency of some people to use someone's race against them in a public forum. All those people are doing is pandering to the fears of the lowest common denominator, illustrating that this person must be bad, because they have a funny name.
It's happened on both sides of the aisle too - in addition to certain people stressing the fact that Obama's middle name is Hussein, there were people in Louisiana who made a point of constantly bringing up the fact that Bobby Jindal's real first name is Piyush when he was running for governor.
From where I'm sitting, having the middle name Hussein doesn't make you any less qualified to be president than having the first name Piyush does to be governor. But still, there are people who would never vote for anyone with the name Hussein, and people who would never vote for anyone named Piyush, and it was sad/sickening/embarrassing to see certain factions shamelessly take advantage of that in such a public manner.
1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.
These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.
4. The belief that homosexual people should act like they are heterosexual if they want to avoid discrimination, but discrimination shouldn't be banned.
there has always been a tolerance/group divide here and in other countries. it isn't simply a US phenomenon. And yes 10 years ago people like those you talk about were just as involved. I really think any example of how we are intolerant can be balanced out by a good one that shows how tolerant and fantastic our society is. Don't get politics mixed up with the people of this country. If all you ever do is focus on the bad in our society (like the 24 hour news cycle always does) then it sure looks like things are getting worse.
In fact, if you listened to nancy grace it seems like every kid in america is being abused and kidnapped and murdered, but that isn't the case. Rates have gone down for years.
Don't let politicians and the news cycles confuse you as to what our society is really like.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
I disagree. I think it is being talked about more, and that is progress. I think you have to be able to understand that others may have a differing viewpoint...and the world doesn't have to follow your viewpoint on all things. And if the world doesn't, it doesn't mean that it's regression everytime.
I know it's not the news cycles giving me this impression because I don't watch (or listen to) the "news". I probably get this idea primarily from this message board, and that influences of my ideas about the people of this country in addition to the politics (which are made possible by the people of this country). But regardless of people's opinions about the things I listed, the fact is that they did happen (and are still happening). I guess I feel like, although there were intolerant people 10 years ago, they seem to have more power now (like the ability to get these laws passed).
I know there are plenty of good things for every bad thing, but I don't think that means the bad things shouldn't still bother people. (Your comment kind of reminds me of my ex-boyfriend's logic. It was something like, "Well, yes, I may have slept with that other woman, but I ALSO a great boyfriend for the past month - so now it balances out and you shouldn't be upset.")
Also, I know it's not just a U.S. phenomenon, but I'm concerned about the U.S. because this is my country. If I lived in another country I'd be looking at their society.
I absolutely do not think the world has to follow my viewpoint on all things. But haven't you noticed any lack of critical thinking skills? I don't care if you agree with me or not, but if you have an opinion about something you should be able to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, should you not? Or haven't you noticed any lack of empathy?
You don't think homosexuals were discriminated against before? How about people of different races? From different countries?
I think it is now being discussed more and more. While the majority opinion on some of these issues is far from what I would hope, it's no longer behind the door. That's a step in the right direction. Of course, with every step, the opposing viewpoint fights back so usually you stumble back some (2 steps forward, 1 step back). But it is still progress. I see where you are coming from, but I don't see it as regression as much as I see it as slow (sometimes very slow) progress. The rate of progress is slower than you would like, but that doesn't mean regression. my opinion anyhow.
fair enough. if this message board is where you are shaping your ideas about politics I worry about you. Someones true feelings cannot be expressed in small statements on a board. Bad things will always bother people, but they don't happen with more frequency anymore now than they did 10 - 20 years ago. Arizona is broke as a state. They start grasping at things that are seen as a big cost. It didn't come up 10 years ago because the state wasn't almost bankrupt. Once that starts happening every program and every cost cutting measure in the books is thrown around. if we all have a million apples no one will care when some go rotten and some get stolen and some get taken. But if you cut it down to 10 apples a person then people will start counting every one they see. Hopefully that made sense to you.
That being said, I am 100% positive that everyone in the legislature for Arizona who voted for that bill is not racist. I am also 100% positive that all the support it has throughout the country is not due to racism.
i think the fact that someone comes out and says start acting less gay and then is crucified by the majority of Americans for such a stupid statement should tell you that America is a great place to live. Not only to do stupid people get to say just about anything they want, those same stupid people will be marginalized by the majority of the country.
I don't know, I see a lot of shit everyday, lots of horrible stories and terrible outcomes, but I realize that out of all those stories there are positives and there are a lot of great people out there.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Yes, of course people were discriminated against before. It just seems to me to be more acceptable and more mainstream now than it was 10 years ago.
Yeah, me too. :oops: This isn't the only place where I discuss politics, but most of the other people with whom I discuss politics are relatively like-minded, so this is probably the primary place where I hear a wide variety of perspectives.
It seems like you're more or less saying people think more about themselves & their resources when they perceive that they've hit hard times, no? I think this is true. I also think the "news" outlets know this is true, and that's why they're so adamant about promoting fear.
Did you mean to say that NOT EVERYONE in the legislature is racist instead of EVERYONE IS NOT racist? And did you mean to say that NOT ALL the support is due to racism instead of ALL the support IS NOT due to racism? Because those mean very different things and I can agree with one but not the other.
But please note that (I'm pretty sure) I haven't said that the people are racist; I've said that the bill is racist. I don't think it matters so much that the people themselves are not racist (and who's to say whether they are or aren't?). I think what matters is that they reinforce racism by supporting a racist bill, whether or not that is their intent.
Good point. But the verdict is still out on whether those people will really be marginalized. We'll have to wait and see whether or not the people choose again at the polls that this is the man who represents them.
and yes, that is what I meant about the 100% racist comment. I meant it to mean that not everyone who supports the bill is racist.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
5. The anti-Muslim sentiment, including the rejection of any attempt to create peace that includes Muslims and the idea that Americans citizens who practice Islam are not really American and have no right to be here.
6. Just, in general, the belief that anyone who does not look like, speak like, eat like, have sex like, pray like "us" is not a legitimate American deserving of the same rights and respect that "we" are.