Is our society regressing?

Boxes&Books

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.

However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!

I hadn't seen this video, related to some of the racism in South Africa- You can see the power people hold over one another- just by the comments/threats/ and body language......it's sad........
just thought I'd share it-

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/0 ... 31621.html

catefrances

unsung wrote:

It all flows together. When people said spanking was abuse and we became hyphenated Americans is when this started. We are raising a nation of crybabies and are so afraid to offend someone.

It also started due to a decline in family values.

oh i gotcha when you say 'our' society you are speaking of american society. my apologies.

but i am interested to hear you define family values.

FiveB247x

Unsung - I completely disagree with you about the notion of "something" American. This has always been a big facet in our nation as the melting pot, I personally feel it has more to do with things like immigration policy and all that goes into why someone would want to become a citizen - there's no incentive but tons of harms. And perhaps you and many others feel "proud" to call yourself an American, but I highly doubt if having the shoe on the other foot and you being in that non-citizen's shoes, you'd be running to go through that process. Much easier said than done my friend - whether it's tests, documents, paperwork, tons of fees or threat of being kicked out, certainly not any type of process people would line up for in the best of cases.

Also, can you please define "family values" (another poster asked as well). Last I recall, divorce rates (http://divorce.lovetoknow.com/Historical_Divorce_Rate_Statistics) have steadily gone up with significant increases from the 70's and on. Certainly not blaming any one group or cause, but I think some of it has to do with womens' rights and a more balanced society in terms of working, careers, family, general respect and equality. I'd hardly call that a decline in values though, more so an improvement. Maybe it's really a very offhand way of saying men suck and all the Archie Bunker's and Ward Cleaver's couldn't keep Betty Homemaker in line anymore? But that's just my 2 cents.

lukin2006

Yes our society is regressing. Today in Detroit at Comerica Park the had Ernie Harwell (long time Tiger radio play by play man who passed away Tuesday at 92) there for public viewing with an open casket and people were actually taking picture of the casket and apparently posing in front of it. Those people are sick, twisted fucks.

_

unsung wrote:

Not their names, duh.

I'm talking about Italian-American, African-American, German-American, instead of just being Americans.

Oh. :oops: Well I still disagree, but I guess it's not the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

_

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.

However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!

I think race equality is certainly better improved between, say, now and the '50s. But what about the last, say, 2-10 years? Do you think there's been any backsliding?

FiveB247x

I think JoeJoeJoe is merely pointing out albeit we do see some polarization of beliefs which bring out hatred, I think we look at many state passing gay marriage and it becoming more "normalized" in society as well as the fact of our first black president, they are poignant markers of progress. Certainly far from removal of discrimination, hatred or full acceptance, but a good, important step in the road of progress.

scb wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.

However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!

I think race equality is certainly better improved between, say, now and the '50s. But what about the last, say, 2-10 years? Do you think there's been any backsliding?

he still stands

Byrnzie wrote:

'The Hero with a thousand faces'. Great book.

Agreed. I think Joseph Campbell has had a very profound impact on society and culture... yet very few people know who he is. He explains so much about about mythology, sociology, psychology, religion, anthropology, etc... yet it is all boils down to a very simple message; the hero monomyth.

"We are our own dragons as well as our own heroes, and we must rescue ourselves from ourselves."

-that is Tom Robbins... but fitting nonetheless.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58437512@N00/4586107767/

Cosmo

unsung wrote:

It all flows together. When people said spanking was abuse and we became hyphenated Americans is when this started. We are raising a nation of crybabies and are so afraid to offend someone.

It also started due to a decline in family values.

...
Political correctness? Are you being serious or just throwing that out there for effect? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not protecting Political Correctness but it has made me aware of others.
I'm surprized because you seem more atuned to politics than most. But, Political Correctness???
And guess what? Political Correctness is not a law. If you want to beat your kids with a belt, that's your call. If you want to call people 'Niggers', you can. If you want to treat women as subserviants, go ahead. If you want to tell Pollack jokes, have at it. No one is stopping you. You want to do all of that, do it.
And to top it off... 'Family Values'? Whose values are we supposed to follow, Yours? The Gambino Family's? The Gotti Family's? The Manson Family's? Or maybe the conservative family values of Family Research Council ( http://www.frc.org/issues ).
If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.
So, if you want to tell us a story about how some guy tried to 'Jew you down' on the trade-in value of your used car, you can. This is still America and you have the right to not give a shit about anyone else but you.

_

Cosmo wrote:

If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.

I whole-heartedly agree with this. To me, it's a symptom of our lack of empathy. I've spent the last few days at a public health conference. It was so refreshing (I don't know why I've come back here) and full of people talking about nothing but what we can do to help make our society a better place. Not once did I hear anyone say, "It's "their" own damn fault. It's not my fault so it's not my problem. Instead of finding out how I can help, I'm going to just sit around and complain about the world and blame everyone else for not taking personal responsibility while at the same time failing to take any responsibility of my own for the well-being of my society." Instead, everyone said, "Our lives and health may be good, but we know not everyone in this nation has the same experiences of life and health. Let's try to understand the world through their perspectives and experiences, identify health disparities, and brainstorm ideas about how we can help the situation, even if it doesn't directly affect us." It kind of reminded me of the whole notion of "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." Why are there not more people like this in the world, or on this board? Why is it SO fucking hard for some people to understand that not everyone experiences life in the same way and actually want to empathize with others' perspectives? Why do so many people just want to sit back and point fingers and judge situations and people they don't even know? I really don't get it. :?

KDH12

scb wrote:

I guess I was thinking more about lack of empathy and critical thinking skills. (Which is not to say that everything's not intertwined.) Anyone have thoughts on this?

well I think that there has always been a lack of empathy, maybe when communities were smaller and more connected there was more of a willingness to help however by the definition of empathy, people have always struggled with that. it is human nature

there has been a significant decline in critical thinking and it could be blamed on a lot things, in general the dumbing down of our society. people want to think less..... 40+ hour work weeks, TV, mass media, video games etc....

Jeanwah

scb wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.

I whole-heartedly agree with this. To me, it's a symptom of our lack of empathy.

Me too. But I'm confused in how you're seeing it as regressing scb. America was more united and commuity minded in yesteryear, so what how exactly are we regressing, and regressing to? I view the lack of values and selfishness in American society today as a whole new wave of narcissism and lack of caring and empathy.

It's difficult to blame any few things for this new lack of compassion and empathy. There's so many factors that contribute to the social realm in how society "works".

_

Jeanwah wrote:

scb wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

If anything, I'd say it is the failure of American people in general. People are more interested in their own personal interests, than in the interests of America as a whole. More about 'What's in it for ME' than 'What's in it for US'.

I whole-heartedly agree with this. To me, it's a symptom of our lack of empathy.

Me too. But I'm confused in how you're seeing it as regressing scb. America was more united and commuity minded in yesteryear, so what how exactly are we regressing, and regressing to? I view the lack of values and selfishness in American society today as a whole new wave of narcissism and lack of caring and empathy.

It's difficult to blame any few things for this new lack of compassion and empathy. There's so many factors that contribute to the social realm in how society "works".

I'm not really sure I understand your question. If we used to be more united and community-minded in yesteryear and now we are selfish and narcissistic and lack values, caring, and empathy, to me that's a step backward = regressing. No?

Jeanwah

scb wrote:

I'm not really sure I understand your question. If we used to be more united and community-minded in yesteryear and now we are selfish and narcissistic and lack values, caring, and empathy, to me that's a step backward = regressing. No?

Oh I see how you're using the word now, it's just not what I automatically thought of. I was thinking of this definition: "to revert to an earlier or less advanced state or form".

BTW, and I've been thinking about this for a while...when I finally am able to go home from rehab (still in from my accident), I'm going to have my own little social experiment. I'm going to be paying attention to how I'm treated in public (I'm temporarily disabled). I'll have a walker and a wheelchair, a frozen hand (from nerve damage), and a skin graft covering a fasciotomy on my arm that's large and not pretty. I know how society is about looks. And although I'll keep my arm covered all summer, I don't like the stigma that goes with appearance. It's my scar, I own it. So I may just not feel like covering all the time to please everyone else. It's life!

_

Jeanwah wrote:

scb wrote:

I'm not really sure I understand your question. If we used to be more united and community-minded in yesteryear and now we are selfish and narcissistic and lack values, caring, and empathy, to me that's a step backward = regressing. No?

Oh I see how you're using the word now, it's just not what I automatically thought of. I was thinking of this definition: "to revert to an earlier or less advanced state or form".

BTW, and I've been thinking about this for a while...when I finally am able to go home from rehab (still in from my accident), I'm going to have my own little social experiment. I'm going to be paying attention to how I'm treated in public (I'm temporarily disabled). I'll have a walker and a wheelchair, a frozen hand (from nerve damage), and a skin graft covering a fasciotomy on my arm that's large and not pretty. I know how society is about looks. And although I'll keep my arm covered all summer, I don't like the stigma that goes with appearance. It's my scar, I own it. So I may just not feel like covering all the time to please everyone else. It's life!

I thought I was using that definition too, but I guess it's just semantics.

I'm glad you're doing better since your accident, and it's inspiring to know that you have such a positive attitude. I'm curious about your social experiment. Please do report back to us about how it goes.

cajunkiwi

scb wrote:

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Socially, I think our society is getting better in terms of equality for race, gender and sexual orientation.

However, in terms of economic disparity, politeness & selfishness, our society is going to hell!

I think race equality is certainly better improved between, say, now and the '50s. But what about the last, say, 2-10 years? Do you think there's been any backsliding?

One thing I have found frustrating and more than a little offensive in the last few years is the tendency of some people to use someone's race against them in a public forum. All those people are doing is pandering to the fears of the lowest common denominator, illustrating that this person must be bad, because they have a funny name.

It's happened on both sides of the aisle too - in addition to certain people stressing the fact that Obama's middle name is Hussein, there were people in Louisiana who made a point of constantly bringing up the fact that Bobby Jindal's real first name is Piyush when he was running for governor.

From where I'm sitting, having the middle name Hussein doesn't make you any less qualified to be president than having the first name Piyush does to be governor. But still, there are people who would never vote for anyone with the name Hussein, and people who would never vote for anyone named Piyush, and it was sad/sickening/embarrassing to see certain factions shamelessly take advantage of that in such a public manner.

_

Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:

1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.

These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.

_

scb wrote:

Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:

1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.

These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.

4. The belief that homosexual people should act like they are heterosexual if they want to avoid discrimination, but discrimination shouldn't be banned.

mikepegg44

scb wrote:

Some examples, to me, of how our society is regressing include:

1. Arizona's law banning ethinic studies.
2. Arizona's immigration law.
3. That dude running in Alamaba elections on the platform that he will ban drivers license tests from being printed in other languages.

These things are just so completely backwards and racist that I really feel like we've come all this way only to slide backwards. But people think as long as you're not lynching people in the streets it's all good. Where did all this intolerance come from?? It didn't seem this bad to me 10 years ago.

there has always been a tolerance/group divide here and in other countries. it isn't simply a US phenomenon. And yes 10 years ago people like those you talk about were just as involved. I really think any example of how we are intolerant can be balanced out by a good one that shows how tolerant and fantastic our society is. Don't get politics mixed up with the people of this country. If all you ever do is focus on the bad in our society (like the 24 hour news cycle always does) then it sure looks like things are getting worse.

In fact, if you listened to nancy grace it seems like every kid in america is being abused and kidnapped and murdered, but that isn't the case. Rates have gone down for years.
Don't let politicians and the news cycles confuse you as to what our society is really like.

cincybearcat

scb wrote:

Am I the only one who fears lately that as a society we are moving backward instead of forward? Has anyone else noticed an increase in intolerance and injustice and a decrease in compassion and humanity? Are people more self-interested than they used to be? Is our chauvinism and xenophobia getting stronger? Has it been this way all along and I'm just starting to notice? Is this message board just totally warping my sense of reality? I spoke with some friends about it today who know nothing of this message board and they think it really is getting worse. What do you think?

ETA: I guess the follow-up questions are: If this is really happening, why? And what can we do about it?

I disagree. I think it is being talked about more, and that is progress. I think you have to be able to understand that others may have a differing viewpoint...and the world doesn't have to follow your viewpoint on all things. And if the world doesn't, it doesn't mean that it's regression everytime.