Protest shows violence and hate in AZ

g under p

cajunkiwi wrote:

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

"Protest shows violence and hate in AR"??

based on the thread title, i thought this thread was supposed to be about violent protests in Arkansas.....isn't the proper abbreviation for Arizona AZ????

Libs like you are such sticklers for literacy! :P

Of course - if we couldn't spell correctly, someone might deport us the next time we're in Arizona.

Yikes and I'm driving from (FL) Florida to (AZ) Arizona for a month this summer. I'm going to have to drag out my passport just for this trip, I wonder if everybody else has to do the same?

Peace

cajunkiwi

"White People - The Original Illegal Immigrants"

I saw that online today and thought it was funny as hell.

I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?

I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol

I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'

The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.

The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.

The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).

Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.

It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.

unsung

I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.

And to scb I only support two types of social help for illegals. One a free ride back to their home country, and two I would support government assistance to those that would do the honorable, lawful act of self deporting. Create something that puts into law help for those that return home for their approval to come through.

Oh and also you berated me for calling them illegal aliens yet you call Native Americans "Indians" on numerous occasions. Please explain why.

_

aerial wrote:

scb wrote:

aerial wrote:

No sound answers so everyone has to deflect from the actual topic as usual..........

Huh? I'm not even sure what the topic is any more. Rest assured though, if I find out what it is I'll give you a sound answer.

aerial wrote:

No violence in the video were the people were chained to the building ok scb?....isn’t that a bit crazy to do?........are they uneducated or what? That’s no way to change the law.....looks like they just wanted to be on the news

You really should stop calling people names. You particularly shouldn't talk shit about people when you're the one making the mistakes.

In this case, it's you who is uneducated, not them. Blocking, chaining oneself to, and/or occupying a building is a common and historically significant method of civil disobedience. And civil disobedience has changed MANY laws. Ever hear of Gandhi and the independence of India from British colonial rule? Ever hear of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and the American civil rights movement? Give me your address and I'll send you a history book for your birthday.

Did chaining ones selves to buildings really prove to change any law ?

As a part of civil disobedience, it has changed the world.

_

g under p wrote:

Yikes and I'm driving from (FL) Florida to (AZ) Arizona for a month this summer. I'm going to have to drag out my passport just for this trip, I wonder if everybody else has to do the same?

Peace

Dude, considering that (I'm pretty sure) aerial lives in FL, I'd think even AZ would be safer!

_

unsung wrote:

I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.

Because our country is a big part of the reason why they can't feed their families. Because we can, because we're the richest nation in the world and we became the richest nation in the world by fucking over other countries like Mexico. Most importantly, because they're already here and we shouldn't turn our backs on our fellow human beings.

unsung wrote:

And to scb I only support two types of social help for illegals. One a free ride back to their home country, and two I would support government assistance to those that would do the honorable, lawful act of self deporting. Create something that puts into law help for those that return home for their aproval to come through.

Only a truly evil person would want to deny medical care to a sick child, especially when their parents are willing to pay for it.

unsung wrote:

Oh and also you berated me for calling them illegal aliens yet you call Native Americans "Indians" on numerous occasions. Please explain why.

Dude - They're immigrants, they're not from Pluto! And, what's this? You the defender of the Natives now? :roll: I called them Indians because that is an appropriate term for me to call them. I lived in what Native Americans and others in the Southwest call "Indian Country" and all my friends refer to themselves as Indians. When I was growing up there, no one used the term Native American and it seems unnatural to me to use it now. When I do call them Native Americans (though the more popular term these days is American Indian), it's only so as not to be confused with someone like you who would call them Indians out of disrespect.

KDH12

unsung wrote:

I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.

And to scb I only support two types of social help for illegals. One a free ride back to their home country, and two I would support government assistance to those that would do the honorable, lawful act of self deporting. Create something that puts into law help for those that return home for their approval to come through.

Oh and also you berated me for calling them illegal aliens yet you call Native Americans "Indians" on numerous occasions. Please explain why.

We are not already burden, as you put it, countries in Africa are burdened and by comparison we got it pretty good.

Things here are not as good as they use to be but you know what, I still have a pretty good standard of living, even if I am shouldering the burden for a few others

_

cajunkiwi...

I heard this quote attributed to David Letterman today: "They say there are about 12 million illegal immigrants in this country. But if you ask a Native American, that number is more like 300 million."

Anyway, great post! Thanks so much for sharing your experience with us so we can better understand the reality of the citizenship process. We all talk so much about it but none of us has ever personally experienced it.

I have friends who are also in this process and they've told me the cost is really prohibitive. Did you have to hire an immigration lawyer? Also, I think it's noteworthy that you've gone through this whole ordeal and that's with being married to a US citizen! I know it's a lot harder if you're not married. My best friend actually had to marry her boyfriend just so he could be legal to get a job so he could help with the rent. And that only enables him to be here legally; he probably won't be able to afford citizenship. (Interesting how you have to buy citizenship, isn't it?)

It's amazing to me that the process (which so many people act like is so easy) is so designed to set you up for failure. You really can't help but break some of the rules sometimes. For instance, as you said, you've broken a rule if you go home to see your mom before she dies. Do they really expect anyone to follow that rule under those kinds of circumstances?? Who wouldn't break that rule? And we all know that most of the people who came here because they are living in a state of poverty we can't even imagine will never be able to afford to buy citizenship or legal residency. So what do we expect? Of course they'll just be here illegally. I'd like to know who among us wouldn't do the exact same thing if in the exact same situation. (But I guess that whole "Never judge a person until you've walked a mile in his shoes" adage was abandoned long ago.) That's a great analogy about the sick child and the pharmacy. I wish people would actually answer the question of what they would do. But instead they'll just say it's not relevant, though we all know that in many circumstances it really is. (And anyone who doesn't know this should make more of an effort to walk a mile in others' shoes.)

I have to point out, though, that although many of the English settlers did come here for a better life, the intention of the Europeans who came here initially was to exploit this land and its people. And that's just what they've done.

Anyway, thanks again for the thoughtful and elucidating post. :thumbup:

WaveCameCrashin

cajunkiwi wrote:

I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?

I do. and I would agree with you that the process needs to be made easier and less expensive for people.

My 1st cousin married a guy from Brazil and he had to jump through hoops as well. I think it took him about 5 years before he finnally got his citizenship. In his own words he told me it was worth it though bcos ther is no way he could even dream of having the life he has now if he were still in Brazil.

_

prfctlefts wrote:

cajunkiwi wrote:

I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?

I do. and I would agree with you that the process needs to be made easier and less expensive for people.

My 1st cousin married a guy from Brazil and he had to jump through hoops as well. I think it took him about 5 years before he finnally got his citizenship. In his own words he told me it was worth it though bcos ther is no way he could even dream of having the life he has now if he were still in Brazil.

That's great that your cousin's husband had the resources to be able to do that.

Boxes&Books

Some more information on why this bill is no good.....
Wondering what the all knowing "godfather" has to say about this......? Hope you actually address this directly, since you are the biggest advocate of the bill... Also the bill has been changed, considering some of the language was actually related to racial profiling..... :roll: . Man I wish they would have listened to us and acknowledged it from the beginning,, it would have saved us a lot of debating..... :roll: :roll:


http://origin-drupal.foxnews.com/on-air ... t_id=87253

haffajappa

cajunkiwi wrote:

"White People - The Original Illegal Immigrants"

I saw that online today and thought it was funny as hell.

I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?

I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol

I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'

The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.

The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.

The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).

Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.

It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.

I'ma quote this beast, just for you Godfather

Anyways, I thought a few forms, a bank draft, and a 4 month wait for my dad's PR Card was bad! :shock: (PR Card = Permanent Resident card in Canada, btw. You can get your citizenship after it but my dad has chosen not to).

You've made some really great points, thanks for your insight its nice to hear some facts from people who have had to endure the process.

Boxes&Books

cajunkiwi wrote:

"White People - The Original Illegal Immigrants"

I saw that online today and thought it was funny as hell.

I'm curious - how many of the "They should just come in legally like everyone else" crew know exactly what it takes to become a U.S. citizen?

I just got full residency a month ago (Step 2 of 3 on the path to citizenship), so I'm fairly well versed in the process (and broke as hell thanks to it). After my wife (an American by birth) and I got married, we embarked on an ordeal so painfully annoying that my wife actually tells her friends (jokingly - usually) not to marry a foreigner because we're not worth it lol

I've done nothing but fill out forms and pay Uncle Sam fees for three years now. There's a several thousand dollar hole in my bank account. Many of the forms were 20+ pages long, and some had to be filled out in triplicate. One of them - my medical form - I had to print out three copies of and bring to the doctor for him to fill out three times (because it said so on the form), only to find out the form was online and could be submitted electronically (sorry about that, Brazilian rainforest). I've had to get my fingerprints taken twice (at $80 each time - that's a cheap procedure), and if I apply for citizenship I'll have to get them taken a third time. You know, because fingerprints change all the time. My wife has been thrown out of the USCIS office in New Orleans for arguing with a guy working behind the counter who told her they didn't accept money there (we needed to pay some fees - imagine that), even though he was sitting underneath a sign that read "WE ACCEPT CHECKS AND CASH ONLY." I was thrown out of the USCIS office once for trying to file a form - the lady behind the counter said the form had to be filed in my home country, and when I pointed out that #12 on the first page said "If applicant is filing this form from within the United States, it must be filed at applicant's local USCIS office" she said that option didn't exist, and that she had worked in immigration for 10 years and there was no such option on the form. When I showed it to her, I was asked to leave. When they call you in for a meeting, you don't get consulted about the day/time - and they don't give you a phone number to call if you need to reschedule (you have to send in a change of time form via snail mail - apparently the immigration folks haven't caught up to the 21st century yet). If you miss a meeting, the government considers your application abandoned, and you have to start from the beginning. And, no, you don't get your money back. Before you get permanent residency, you're considered a temporary resident for a two-year period. What does that mean? All of my tax money goes to the U.S. government, but if I want to go home I have to ask permission (it's called "Advance Parole") and give one month's notice (and I have a time limit on how long I can go home). If a family member died and I needed to go home immediately, I wouldn't be allowed to - unless my family wanted to wait 30 days for a funeral so I could attend. If I said screw it and went home anyway - you guessed it, my application would be 'abandoned.'

The entire immigration system in America is set up to keep people out. So, hypothetically speaking, if you're a barely literate father of four in a Mexican border town and you want to provide a better life for your family, how are you supposed to do that? America is "The Land Of Opportunity" - but what they don't tell you in the fine print is that you need to pay out the ass just to have those opportunities. There's no way a guy in that situation could ever hope to get legal residency in America.

The more I think about this, the more I'm reminded of a personality test we were administered in a psych class in high school... if your child is dying, and the drug that can save her is at a pharmacy, but it's after hours and the pharmacy is closed, is it ethically right to break into the pharmacy to save her life? The anti-immigration people apparently would say "Screw it, let her die." I've known some illegal immigrants before (it's hard not to in post-Katrina Louisiana), and they've all been awesome people. They're not robbing people or causing car crashes, they're trying to make an honest buck to support their family. They couldn't earn crap in Mexico, and the system isn't set up for them to enter America legally, so they "broke into the pharmacy," so to speak, and crossed the border. They're not interested in bringing down the economy (side note: how the hell do illegal immigrants get more blame for the state of the economy than Wall Street CEOs?), they're interested in putting food on the table and trying to find a better life for their kids.

The funny thing is, I'd be perfectly fine driving through Arizona (and Arkansas). I'm white (except for a light tan that comes naturally when you live in Louisiana), and to be perfectly honest, carrying my ID isn't that big a deal (you get a credit card-sized card that you're told you must carry with you at all times anyway). My brother-in-law, however, would be screwed. He's from Texas (born in Arlington), to a Mexican father and a Spanish mother. He's a baseball coach who has to travel for work, and he drives an old truck because his salary sucks. If he ever drove that thing through Phoenix, his ass would be hauled over in a heartbeat - he couldn't look any more Mexican if he tried. How would be prove he's American? With an easily forged driver's license? His documentation wouldn't be any different to an illegal immigrant. A passport could be lost or stolen. Documents can be forged or stolen (I'm actually still owed 12 months' pay by LSU from when I worked in student media eight years ago - the Immigration Services Office lost my work permit, and I couldn't get paid for a year. Yeah, you read that right. A full f***ing year.).

Every single illegal immigrant I have ever met in America has been here for one reason - they want the "American Dream." The reality is though, if you're not born in America, it's damn near impossible to get. Once you do get in, it's not like you get a warm welcome either. I had someone throw a glass bottle at me once for wearing a shirt with "New Zealand" written on it. Upon getting permanent resident status, I got an email from my father-in-law "welcoming me to America" and then going on to say that immigrants make him sick to his stomach (Caaaaaaaaaan you feeeeeeel, the loooooooove toniiiiiight?). A friend of mine - a Christian from Mauritius - was beaten up on 9/11/01 because he "looked like a Muslim." While most of the people I've met here have been awesome, the xenophobes like to yell the loudest, and seem to take perverse delight in reminding you at every opportunity that it's "their" country. I've lived here 10 years now, and I am a permanent resident, but I don't feel remotely American. As long as I live here, thanks to people like that, I'll always be a New Zealander living in America - never an American who happened to be born in New Zealand.

It's funny... I wonder how much different America would look these days if the Native Americans put up a fence to keep the English out. They came here to "break into the pharmacy" and ended up massacring tribes of people. All the Mexicans want to do is get three meals a day. I say build the fence to make it harder to get in illegally, make it EASIER to get in legally (because it's a f***ing joke at the moment, and that's why people are losing their lives in the pursuit of a better life), and if you're serious about shoring up the economy, instead of worrying about the guy building the house down the street, worry about the guy bilking people out of their money on wall street.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

cajunkiwi

haffajappa wrote:

I'ma quote this beast, just for you Godfather

Anyways, I thought a few forms, a bank draft, and a 4 month wait for my dad's PR Card was bad! :shock: (PR Card = Permanent Resident card in Canada, btw. You can get your citizenship after it but my dad has chosen not to).

You've made some really great points, thanks for your insight its nice to hear some facts from people who have had to endure the process.

Sorry, it was kinda long... I got on a roll and couldn't stop myself lol

The funny thing is, if we were to move to New Zealand, my wife would have to fill out one form and pay a one time fee (that's roughly 1/15 of what I've had to pay so far) and that would be it.

cajunkiwi

scb wrote:

cajunkiwi...

I have friends who are also in this process and they've told me the cost is really prohibitive. Did you have to hire an immigration lawyer? Also, I think it's noteworthy that you've gone through this whole ordeal and that's with being married to a US citizen! I know it's a lot harder if you're not married. My best friend actually had to marry her boyfriend just so he could be legal to get a job so he could help with the rent. And that only enables him to be here legally; he probably won't be able to afford citizenship. (Interesting how you have to buy citizenship, isn't it?)

Yeah, I totally got in "the easy way" - technically, if I haven't been convicted of any crimes while living here, my application can't be denied as the spouse of an American. Yet it still takes several years, a ton of forms, and several thousands of dollars in fees (someone once accused me on The Porch of not being that big a Pearl Jam fan because I haven't gone on road trips to see them while living here - I was bitching about them not coming to New Orleans at the time - but that's exactly why I wasn't able to see them. All of my "spending money" so to speak has been spent on gaining residency, and a vacation home that I had to save for for several years because it's so damn expensive to fly to NZ. As Lewis Black once said, if New Zealanders want to be a part of the rest of the world, they should get off their island and push it closer to the rest of us ).

The process could've been MUCH harder. I know solely from a Student Visa standpoint that if you're coming from a predominantly Muslim country that it's damn near impossible to get in. You need to provide five years' worth of bank statements from your parents, your neighbours, your parents' friends, and your parents' coworkers. There are also certain courses you can't take at a university (my old roommate was an engineering student from Pakistan and he was told he was not allowed to take any nuclear engineering classes. You know, "just in case." If my old roommate WAS a terrorist, the world would be in a much better place - Al Qaeda would be too busy getting stoned and watching porn like he did every day to worry anyone). The funny thing is, if you want to find someone who REALLY hates Al Qaeda, go and talk to a Muslim. All of my Muslim friends would love to see Bin Laden's head on a platter, because he has made life absolute hell for the 99.99% of Muslims worldwide who just want to live in peace. Yet if you talk to some conservatives they'd have you believe every Muslim on the planet is plotting America's downfall because women have the right to vote here. I've known a lot of Muslims while living here, and none of them cared one bit about who could vote and who couldn't - the only arguments they were interested in were over which country had a better soccer or cricket team (or whether Hindi porn was better than European porn).

No, I didn't hire an immigration lawyer. I met with one for a free consultation before the process began, and got a bad vibe from him. He seemed to be in the dark about a lot of things, and the only thing he knew for sure was that if he filled out the forms on my behalf, it would cost me extra. I decided to save the money and do it myself. Did your friends hire lawyers? How are they finding the process?

_

cajunkiwi wrote:

The process could've been MUCH harder. I know solely from a Student Visa standpoint that if you're coming from a predominantly Muslim country that it's damn near impossible to get in. You need to provide five years' worth of bank statements from your parents, your neighbours, your parents' friends, and your parents' coworkers. There are also certain courses you can't take at a university (my old roommate was an engineering student from Pakistan and he was told he was not allowed to take any nuclear engineering classes. You know, "just in case."

WOW. :shock: Just... wow. :( (Is there an emoticon of a someone shaking her head in disbelief and disdain?)

cajunkiwi wrote:

No, I didn't hire an immigration lawyer. I met with one for a free consultation before the process began, and got a bad vibe from him. He seemed to be in the dark about a lot of things, and the only thing he knew for sure was that if he filled out the forms on my behalf, it would cost me extra. I decided to save the money and do it myself. Did your friends hire lawyers? How are they finding the process?

Well, I've had different friends go through the process in different ways at different times. Thankfully, my friend knows a lot about the process (her last boyfriend of 11 years was an immigrant too) and has connections with immigration lawyers. So I THINK she is just consulting her connections unofficially. :?: Her "husband" would never have been able to go through this process without her help, knowledge, and connections though. It's been very hard even with them working on it together. And they didn't feel like they could find any solution at all other than to get married. Good thing he's a great guy!

OnTheEdge

scb wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

Not that hard, all you gotta do is youtube it. but here it is. By the way, you don't see this shit at any of the tea parties that you claim are so racist and violent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZDYNQEwlM

Why all the comparisons of the Tea Parties to the protesters of the AZ law? What's the point? Do you actually think if one group does something wrong then the other group is automatically exalted? It sounds like little kids at a playground. One kid calls someone names and gets in trouble for it and then when another kid trips someone the first kid says, "Oh yeah? Well HE tripped someone!!" as if that means it's now okay for him to continue to call people names. Where's the grown up logic here?

Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:

inmytree

mb262200 wrote:

Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:

nah...if a teabagger threw a bottle at a cop, fellow teabaggers would simply blame obama and his fascist/socialist ways...

seriously, though...what do teabaggers have to do with this conversation...?

Boxes&Books

mb262200 wrote:

scb wrote:

mb262200 wrote:

Not that hard, all you gotta do is youtube it. but here it is. By the way, you don't see this shit at any of the tea parties that you claim are so racist and violent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZDYNQEwlM

Why all the comparisons of the Tea Parties to the protesters of the AZ law? What's the point? Do you actually think if one group does something wrong then the other group is automatically exalted? It sounds like little kids at a playground. One kid calls someone names and gets in trouble for it and then when another kid trips someone the first kid says, "Oh yeah? Well HE tripped someone!!" as if that means it's now okay for him to continue to call people names. Where's the grown up logic here?

Because if a bottle was thrown at a tea party and hit a cop it would have been played on MSNBC 1,000 fucking time already and there would be a 1,000 fucking pages on this forum about it. But when it comes to violence at an illegal immigration rally SUDENLY violence doesn't matter anymore. MORE DOUBLE STANDARD FUCKING LIBERALISM! DRIVES ME FUCKING CRAZY! :crazy:

Not trying to justify the bottle throwing- Which I agree- its stupid. It seems to be some stupid kids.
But this is one of the reason's the vast majority of people don't like the tea party groups...Now this is sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ik4f1dR ... re=related

cajunkiwi

unsung wrote:

I'm not going to quote that whole thing. Why should America take in those that can't read or can't feed their families? We are already overburdened.

"Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!""

I'll assume you're familiar with the above text, and, in particular, where you can read it if you so choose. Last time I checked, there's no mention of there being a literacy test. The inscription doesn't read "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, but only if they can spell 'antidisestablishmentarianism.'" If people needed to pass a literacy test to live in America, a good number of people born and raised in the 50 states would have to be shipped back to England (good god people, is it THAT hard to figure out the difference between "your" and "you're"? Not only that, but "I could care less" doesn't make any bloody sense. To paraphrase Inigo Montoya, I do not think that phrase means what you think it means).

I was always under the impression that the "American Dream" was the chance to improve your lot in life. People move here from all over the world so they can make sure their kids have opportunities they never had. That's something you should be incredibly, and justifiably, proud of.

However, it seems like a lot of people - yourself included, judging from your quote - believe that the "American Dream" - the chance to improve your lot in life - should only apply to those who already fall into the category of the "haves."

In other words, if you come from a Mexican town so small it doesn't have a school or running water, and you never learned to read, and your entire family lives in one room, and all you want is the chance to put in a solid day's work five days a week so your children can go to school and get themselves out of the future they appear to be consigned to - tough shit.