Hahaha. Awesome.
I wanna play this game more.
I just throw out some random remarks, and you dig up the proof of it's authenticity. I think that'll prove quickly enough that there are conspiracy theories about everything imaginable and unimaginable. And they all connect somehow.
Waiting for the proof of the pope puppeteering the mentioned countries.
Peace
Dan
you mean like Elvi sightings at a gas station in the mid west somewhere or the UFO and BIGFOOT sightings. sorry I had to throw that in there as long as we're talking conspiracy theories cause you know the
goverment is hiding those also.
just kidding with ya
Waiting for the proof of the pope puppeteering the mentioned countries.
Well, it's not exactly what you asked for,
but here is proof that the entire Luciferian occult elite "Mystery Babylon" system IS directly tied to the Vatican\Catholicism\The Pope (which is nothing more than the exoteric manifestation of their esoteric worship) ...
Black Mass \ Catholic Mass Being Performed At Bohemian Grove, 1927 uncropped original
But couldn't you have just inferred that directly from The Bible?
I mean Revelations doesn't really mince words on the subject, does it?
For those with no bible background (i'm just gaining my chops myself, fyi)
Rev 17
17:1 "... I will show you the punishment of the great whore, who sits on many waters, with her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries" and 17:5 directly states, in all caps, not my emphasis, typed as such:
17:5
"This title was written on her forehead:
______________MYSTERY____________
_________BABYLON THE GREAT_______
____THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES____
AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
"
Pyramid much?
17:9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits."
[image taken from The Dark Powers That Bind, Chapter 6: Rome]
From Wikipedia, "The Seven Hills of Rome": The Seven Hills of Rome (Italian: Sette colli di Roma) east of the river Tiber form the geographical heart of Rome, within the walls of the ancient city.
The seven hills are:
* Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
* Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
* Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
* Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
* Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
* Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
* Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)
So WHY WOULD ROME BE REFERRED TO AS WHERE THE WHORE OF BABYLON SITS?
Maybe whomever wrote this part of the bible was well aware of the history of the secret religion of the elite who rule empires from behind the throne? It didn't start in Rome, it started at the dawn of empire, in Babylon. This is where "The Mystery Schools" have their roots. Go listen to the Bill Cooper "Mystery Babylon" series to hear his excellent take on the whole ridiculous rouse.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
So basically the "proof" is a photograph? That's it? This is basically no different from someone taking a picture with an umbrella and when it rains, saying I conspired for it's occurrence.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I dont see how that picture proves the catholic church is a luciferan occult elite in any way.
The revelations stuff is extremely vague.
17.1 could be anyone and anything.
The names are pretty generic and just underlines "something/someone bad".
Pyramid? Is that supposed to be a link to egyptian stuff?
As for seven hills, that can be any set of hills in the world. Plenty of hills in Israel/Lebanon/Turkey/Syria, if that's roughly where the text is from.
Even my hometown in Norway is said to be inbetween 7 mountains. Depends a bit on how you count really. 7 is a good number, better than 5 or 9 which also could be claimed.
But even if Rome is the city alluded to, wouldn't it make more sense that the text refers to the Roman empire, and a heartfelt wish that it would tumble? (that sat on many seas around the Mediterranean and who had all sorts of kings and allies support it's causes) So this may all be bygones along long time ago. Since the church didn't even exist when the text was written, I find it hard to see the reference there, really.
This sounds suspiciously as popular evangelical conspiracy theories to underline that the catholics are wrong, and they are because they're headed by the devil's minions or something.
(edit) But well done. Didn't connect crosses in flags with it, but an honourable attempt nonetheless. I'll take a little time-out and ponder other random stuff I can ask for a conspiracy theory linking them.
Peace
Dan
Post edited by OutOfBreath on
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
its funny, that skull and cross bones looks like the same one from the helmet decal on my high school football helmet...i must have been involved too...
heh
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
it looks like jack white is illuminati....here's the dead weather's upcoming album cover, sea of cowards
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I just ordered a copy of this book off bookfinder, which appears to be very "illuminating":
The hidden teachings of the initiate masters: The simplified arcane, esoteric and occult teachings of the initiates and masters in the initiatory schools ... which governs in the new order of the ages
by Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1957, Beverly Hall Corporation
ALSO
on Friday i'm headed down to Duke University, Divinity School Library to check out (possibly permanently, if i can. )the following book:
The Teachings of the Masters: The Wisdom of the Ages
an exposition of the ever active and constantly operating spiritual laws applicable not only to the regeneration of man changing mortality in to immortality transmuting the son of man in to a son of god but equally potent in helping man to achieve success and economic independence health, strength of body, and the peace of mind, and heart called heaven
again by
Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1952, Beverly Hall Corporation
WHICH, THANKS TO BILL COOPER (Mystery Babylon tape 37, Rose Cross Pt. 2), I HAVE NOW BEEN MADE AWARE OF, AND CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING:
"Prologue:
Early in the year 1916 instructions were received from the Count M Decent Vincent, Supreme Hierarch of the Fraternitas Rosecrucias, to make preparations for a sacred convocation on the 68th anniversary of the establishment of the Supreme Grand Dome of the Fraternitas and Associate Organizations as established in America by Dr. Paschal Beverley Randolph. At this convocation, which was to convene on June 1st, 1916, the Neophyte body was to be informed of a crisis that would be the beginning of the enslavement of the people of America in a manner so insidious that they would not be aware of it. America was to become engaged in a war that would be only the beginning of greater wars. It was prophesied that an effort would be made to destroy the Christian religion so secretly and silently that only the alert and elect would be aware of this activity. This effort is in full bloom today, and is making atheists out of millions, even before their Churches are destroyed, the reverse of what has happened and is happening in other countries. At this convocation we were instructed to hold daily lectures on subjects vitally important to all, in fact to all the world, and more especially so to Neophytes of The August Fraternity. These instructions were to be after the manner of Plato and the Round Table of King Arthur. [...]"
HMM.
So the Illuminati are the "good guys"?
My take is still out. But i find this to be "enLIGHTening", to say the least.
This book is WAY WAY WAY out of print.
So much so, that the Duke Divinity School library is the only library in 100 miles to have a copy,
and there are NO COPIES FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET (not on Amazon, not on Bookfinder, nowhere).
Hmm.
Let you know when i get my hands on it, Dan.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Wow...powerful stuff...I hear Lady Gaga is part of this whole mess... :shock:
I do wonder, what's the big deal about a North American Union....why is it such a bad thing...?
I'm pretty sure I've seen this sort of information being discussed on late night coo-coo for coco puffs religious television shows..."BE PREPARED FOR THE SIGN OF THE BEAST IS UPON US...666...NEW WORLD ORDER...ORDER OUR NEW MAGAZINE/BOOK/VHS TAPE or CASSETTE TO LEARN MORE MORE MORE..."
Wow...powerful stuff...I hear Lady Gaga is part of this whole mess... :shock:
I do wonder, what's the big deal about a North American Union....why is it such a bad thing...?
I'm pretty sure I've seen this sort of information being discussed on late night coo-coo for coco puffs religious television shows..."BE PREPARED FOR THE SIGN OF THE BEAST IS UPON US...666...NEW WORLD ORDER...ORDER OUR NEW MAGAZINE/BOOK/VHS TAPE or CASSETTE TO LEARN MORE MORE MORE..."
Um, did you check the author of the aforementioned quotes (the post above your lame excuse for mockery)?
I'm not quoting crackpot conspiracy theorists or televangelists (but to be sure, large tracts of the bible, Revelations nearly in total, are blatant anti globalist-imperialist conspiracy rants, try reading it if you can muster up the mental fortitude. get a study bible to help you wrap your head around it, i know metaphor is pretty tricky stuff) ...
IT WAS QUOTES FROM A BOOK WRITTEN BY THE GRAND COMMANDER OF THE MERGED OCCULT FRATERNITIES WHICH INCLUDES THE ILLUMINATI ITSELF (also the OTO, All Rosicrucian branches, and about a dozen other appendant bodies).
In other words, this is "THEIR" direct writing, from the very top.
The only question is, can you trust that the same people engaged in a mega-worldwide multi-headed group DECEPTION (and make no mistake, they misrepresent themselves CONSTANTLY to the outside world) to be telling you the truth about who is doing what?
Are they *really* on "our" side?
I dunno.
I can get you the rest of the quotes, after i transcribe them, where he goes on to talk about how America has an ever dimming destiny and responsibility to BE the "new order" but that as we as a nation continue to prove ourselves unworthy, we head ever faster in to a disutopic dictatorial order which he compares to "hell on earth".
Again, this coming from THE HEAD OF THE WESTERN ORDER OF THE ILLUMINATI, HIMSELF.
Wow...powerful stuff...I hear Lady Gaga is part of this whole mess... :shock:
I do wonder, what's the big deal about a North American Union....why is it such a bad thing...?
I'm pretty sure I've seen this sort of information being discussed on late night coo-coo for coco puffs religious television shows..."BE PREPARED FOR THE SIGN OF THE BEAST IS UPON US...666...NEW WORLD ORDER...ORDER OUR NEW MAGAZINE/BOOK/VHS TAPE or CASSETTE TO LEARN MORE MORE MORE..."
Um, did you check the author of the aforementioned quotes (the post above your lame excuse for mockery)?
I'm not quoting crackpot conspiracy theorists or televangelists (but to be sure, large tracts of the bible, Revelations nearly in total, are blatant anti globalist-imperialist conspiracy rants, try reading it if you can muster up the mental fortitude. get a study bible to help you wrap your head around it, i know metaphor is pretty tricky stuff) ...
IT WAS QUOTES FROM A BOOK WRITTEN BY THE GRAND COMMANDER OF THE MERGED OCCULT FRATERNITIES WHICH INCLUDES THE ILLUMINATI ITSELF (also the OTO, All Rosicrucian branches, and about a dozen other appendant bodies).
In other words, this is "THEIR" direct writing, from the very top.
The only question is, can you trust that the same people engaged in a mega-worldwide multi-headed group DECEPTION (and make no mistake, they misrepresent themselves CONSTANTLY to the outside world) to be telling you the truth about who is doing what?
Are they *really* on "our" side?
I dunno.
I can get you the rest of the quotes, after i transcribe them, where he goes on to talk about how America has an ever dimming destiny and responsibility to BE the "new order" but that as we as a nation continue to prove ourselves unworthy, we head ever faster in to a disutopic dictatorial order which he compares to "hell on earth".
Again, this coming from THE HEAD OF THE WESTERN ORDER OF THE ILLUMINATI, HIMSELF.
Wow...powerful stuff...I hear Lady Gaga is part of this whole mess... :shock:
I do wonder, what's the big deal about a North American Union....why is it such a bad thing...?
I'm pretty sure I've seen this sort of information being discussed on late night coo-coo for coco puffs religious television shows..."BE PREPARED FOR THE SIGN OF THE BEAST IS UPON US...666...NEW WORLD ORDER...ORDER OUR NEW MAGAZINE/BOOK/VHS TAPE or CASSETTE TO LEARN MORE MORE MORE..."
Um, did you check the author of the aforementioned quotes (the post above your lame excuse for mockery)?
I'm not quoting crackpot conspiracy theorists or televangelists (but to be sure, large tracts of the bible, Revelations nearly in total, are blatant anti globalist-imperialist conspiracy rants, try reading it if you can muster up the mental fortitude. get a study bible to help you wrap your head around it, i know metaphor is pretty tricky stuff) ...
IT WAS QUOTES FROM A BOOK WRITTEN BY THE GRAND COMMANDER OF THE MERGED OCCULT FRATERNITIES WHICH INCLUDES THE ILLUMINATI ITSELF (also the OTO, All Rosicrucian branches, and about a dozen other appendant bodies).
In other words, this is "THEIR" direct writing, from the very top.
The only question is, can you trust that the same people engaged in a mega-worldwide multi-headed group DECEPTION (and make no mistake, they misrepresent themselves CONSTANTLY to the outside world) to be telling you the truth about who is doing what?
Are they *really* on "our" side?
I dunno.
I can get you the rest of the quotes, after i transcribe them, where he goes on to talk about how America has an ever dimming destiny and responsibility to BE the "new order" but that as we as a nation continue to prove ourselves unworthy, we head ever faster in to a disutopic dictatorial order which he compares to "hell on earth".
Again, this coming from THE HEAD OF THE WESTERN ORDER OF THE ILLUMINATI, HIMSELF.
tell me again why it's such a big deal to form a North American Union...?
Nice evasion of half of the discussion.
The formation of ANY sort of EXTRA-Constitutional government is a DIRECT SUBVERSION AND VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUION.
If you are an American, who takes adherence to the document seriously, it is a HUGE deal.
It is IRREPARABLE if you subject your self to extra-constitutional government.
We are already under UN jurisdiction, which is a huge mistake.
To outright commit ourselves to a supranational governing body would be United States constitutional suicide.
But i'm guessing your one of the types that thinks the constitution was a mistake written by a bunch of elitist old racist white men and that it has no relevance or merit in our "modern" world of moral ambiguity and necessarily vague political principles?
:?: :?:
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
tell me again why it's such a big deal to form a North American Union...?
Nice evasion of half of the discussion.
The formation of ANY sort of EXTRA-Constitutional government is a DIRECT SUBVERSION AND VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUION.
If you are an American, who takes adherence to the document seriously, it is a HUGE deal.
It is IRREPARABLE if you subject your self to extra-constitutional government.
We are already under UN jurisdiction, which is a huge mistake.
To outright commit ourselves to a supranational governing body would be United States constitutional suicide.
But i'm guessing your one of the types that thinks the constitution was a mistake written by a bunch of elitist old racist white men and that it has no relevance or merit in our "modern" world of moral ambiguity and necessarily vague political principles?
:?: :?:
um...yeah, you nailed it... :shifty: I'm one of those sorts...
I'm guessing you're a big supporter of the 3/5 Compromise...
I do find it funny, for someone who is so paranoid, that you would even dare post this sort of information on the web...you may get a knock on your door or bunker...
I also find it amusing that you can't answer the question of what the big issue is...I'm being honest, your responses have not made it clear to me as to how this will lead to the downfall of mankind...
on Friday i'm headed down to Duke University, Divinity School Library to check out (possibly permanently, if i can. )the following book:
The Teachings of the Masters: The Wisdom of the Ages
an exposition of the ever active and constantly operating spiritual laws applicable not only to the regeneration of man changing mortality in to immortality transmuting the son of man in to a son of god but equally potent in helping man to achieve success and economic independence health, strength of body, and the peace of mind, and heart called heaven
again by
Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1952, Beverly Hall Corporation
WHICH, THANKS TO BILL COOPER (Mystery Babylon tape 37, Rose Cross Pt. 2), I HAVE NOW BEEN MADE AWARE OF, AND CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING:
"Prologue:
Early in the year 1916 instructions were received from the Count M Decent Vincent, Supreme Hierarch of the Fraternitas Rosecrucias, to make preparations for a sacred convocation on the 68th anniversary of the establishment of the Supreme Grand Dome of the Fraternitas and Associate Organizations as established in America by Dr. Paschal Beverley Randolph. At this convocation, which was to convene on June 1st, 1916, the Neophyte body was to be informed of a crisis that would be the beginning of the enslavement of the people of America in a manner so insidious that they would not be aware of it. America was to become engaged in a war that would be only the beginning of greater wars. It was prophesied that an effort would be made to destroy the Christian religion so secretly and silently that only the alert and elect would be aware of this activity. This effort is in full bloom today, and is making atheists out of millions, even before their Churches are destroyed, the reverse of what has happened and is happening in other countries. At this convocation we were instructed to hold daily lectures on subjects vitally important to all, in fact to all the world, and more especially so to Neophytes of The August Fraternity. These instructions were to be after the manner of Plato and the Round Table of King Arthur. [...]"
HMM.
So the Illuminati are the "good guys"?
My take is still out. But i find this to be "enLIGHTening", to say the least.
This book is WAY WAY WAY out of print.
So much so, that the Duke Divinity School library is the only library in 100 miles to have a copy,
and there are NO COPIES FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET (not on Amazon, not on Bookfinder, nowhere).
Hmm.
Let you know when i get my hands on it, Dan.
You do that. Sounds very "Da Vinci code". The only book at that only library.
I'm expecting a rather long-winded "why catholics are evil" summary.
As for me, I'll try to finish the bible this summer, or at least the OT (Halfway through now) and thinking of picking up some books by Joseph Campbell on the nature of myths and their role through human history.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Drifting, I would LOVE to meet you someday! Everything you post is nothing new to me, just love seeing in the pit. Sorry most people dont get it. Please continue to share your info with us. Anything else you would want to share and send me via email, would love to receive and review when I have the time.
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
Drifting, I would LOVE to meet you someday! Everything you post is nothing new to me, just love seeing in the pit. Sorry most people dont get it. Please continue to share your info with us. Anything else you would want to share and send me via email, would love to receive and review when I have the time.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I just ordered a copy of this book off bookfinder, which appears to be very "illuminating":
The hidden teachings of the initiate masters: The simplified arcane, esoteric and occult teachings of the initiates and masters in the initiatory schools ... which governs in the new order of the ages
by Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1957, Beverly Hall Corporation
ALSO
on Friday i'm headed down to Duke University, Divinity School Library to check out (possibly permanently, if i can. )the following book:
The Teachings of the Masters: The Wisdom of the Ages
an exposition of the ever active and constantly operating spiritual laws applicable not only to the regeneration of man changing mortality in to immortality transmuting the son of man in to a son of god but equally potent in helping man to achieve success and economic independence health, strength of body, and the peace of mind, and heart called heaven
again by
Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1952, Beverly Hall Corporation
WHICH, THANKS TO BILL COOPER (Mystery Babylon tape 37, Rose Cross Pt. 2), I HAVE NOW BEEN MADE AWARE OF, AND CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING:
"Prologue:
Early in the year 1916 instructions were received from the Count M Decent Vincent, Supreme Hierarch of the Fraternitas Rosecrucias, to make preparations for a sacred convocation on the 68th anniversary of the establishment of the Supreme Grand Dome of the Fraternitas and Associate Organizations as established in America by Dr. Paschal Beverley Randolph. At this convocation, which was to convene on June 1st, 1916, the Neophyte body was to be informed of a crisis that would be the beginning of the enslavement of the people of America in a manner so insidious that they would not be aware of it. America was to become engaged in a war that would be only the beginning of greater wars. It was prophesied that an effort would be made to destroy the Christian religion so secretly and silently that only the alert and elect would be aware of this activity. This effort is in full bloom today, and is making atheists out of millions, even before their Churches are destroyed, the reverse of what has happened and is happening in other countries. At this convocation we were instructed to hold daily lectures on subjects vitally important to all, in fact to all the world, and more especially so to Neophytes of The August Fraternity. These instructions were to be after the manner of Plato and the Round Table of King Arthur. [...]"
HMM.
So the Illuminati are the "good guys"?
My take is still out. But i find this to be "enLIGHTening", to say the least.
This book is WAY WAY WAY out of print.
So much so, that the Duke Divinity School library is the only library in 100 miles to have a copy,
and there are NO COPIES FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET (not on Amazon, not on Bookfinder, nowhere).
Hmm.
Let you know when i get my hands on it, Dan.
I just called my local library here in Oregon. The librarian informed me there are ONLY 50 COPIES IN THE ENTIRE WORLD and she would request it for me. She said with it being such a rare book, she couldn't guarantee if anyone would want to release it. She named several locations that had ownership of the book, Boston, and some place in Cali, and Arizona..now I really want to get my hands on a copy!
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
on Friday i'm headed down to Duke University, Divinity School Library to check out (possibly permanently, if i can. )the following book:
The Teachings of the Masters: The Wisdom of the Ages
an exposition of the ever active and constantly operating spiritual laws applicable not only to the regeneration of man changing mortality in to immortality transmuting the son of man in to a son of god but equally potent in helping man to achieve success and economic independence health, strength of body, and the peace of mind, and heart called heaven
again by
Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1952, Beverly Hall Corporation
WHICH, THANKS TO BILL COOPER (Mystery Babylon tape 37, Rose Cross Pt. 2), I HAVE NOW BEEN MADE AWARE OF, AND CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING:
"Prologue:
Early in the year 1916 instructions were received from the Count M Decent Vincent, Supreme Hierarch of the Fraternitas Rosecrucias, to make preparations for a sacred convocation on the 68th anniversary of the establishment of the Supreme Grand Dome of the Fraternitas and Associate Organizations as established in America by Dr. Paschal Beverley Randolph. At this convocation, which was to convene on June 1st, 1916, the Neophyte body was to be informed of a crisis that would be the beginning of the enslavement of the people of America in a manner so insidious that they would not be aware of it. America was to become engaged in a war that would be only the beginning of greater wars. It was prophesied that an effort would be made to destroy the Christian religion so secretly and silently that only the alert and elect would be aware of this activity. This effort is in full bloom today, and is making atheists out of millions, even before their Churches are destroyed, the reverse of what has happened and is happening in other countries. At this convocation we were instructed to hold daily lectures on subjects vitally important to all, in fact to all the world, and more especially so to Neophytes of The August Fraternity. These instructions were to be after the manner of Plato and the Round Table of King Arthur. [...]"
HMM.
So the Illuminati are the "good guys"?
My take is still out. But i find this to be "enLIGHTening", to say the least.
This book is WAY WAY WAY out of print.
So much so, that the Duke Divinity School library is the only library in 100 miles to have a copy,
and there are NO COPIES FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET (not on Amazon, not on Bookfinder, nowhere).
Hmm.
Let you know when i get my hands on it, Dan.
You do that. Sounds very "Da Vinci code". The only book at that only library.
I'm expecting a rather long-winded "why catholics are evil" summary.
As for me, I'll try to finish the bible this summer, or at least the OT (Halfway through now) and thinking of picking up some books by Joseph Campbell on the nature of myths and their role through human history.
Peace
Dan
Hmm. well whatever, Re: dan brown.
Roman Catholicism is definitely "evil" in the sense that the larger body that the Vatican is an integral organ of is pretty sick and warped.
As far as the bible, I personally find the NT to be much more compelling and a more interesting read than the OT. Certainly its main thematic concerns are far more relevant to the modern world than the OT, and all the description of bloodshed, customs, idolatry, etc therein. Not saying its not worth reading, just that it's a bit "dated". The NT, the parables of Jesus, his teachings generally, and particularly the writings of John are just pure gold. Revelations itself is a gas.
Joseph Campbell ... meh.
I was a fan in highschool after a really good Comparative Religions class, but i tend to think of his ideas as largely discredited (along with a lot of Jung's) the more i get to actually understanding how religious and mythological concepts have passed down from the ages.
Jung and Campbell's rather (imho) way-off-the-mark theories hinge on the idea that we are all tied in to 1 mind on some level, and that our brains throughout the ages are accessing this same database of archetypes and rehashing them out. I (as well as a lot of other folks) find that pretty hard to swallow.
Although certain themes certainly do seem to reoccur more often than others, and some of these are spontaneous recounts to be sure,
knowing what i now know, it becomes easier to understand that MANY of the "different" myths that sound the same, ARE in fact the same, and have been deliberately rehashed and handed "down" by the exact same secret societies that are whoring out their philosophies to unsuspecting cultures. The Greek \ Roman myths are a prime example of this. There was no archetypal consciousness at work, the same secret religion was behind both of those cultures.
Anywhoo.
I'm out. Late for a job.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I just ordered a copy of this book off bookfinder, which appears to be very "illuminating":
The hidden teachings of the initiate masters: The simplified arcane, esoteric and occult teachings of the initiates and masters in the initiatory schools ... which governs in the new order of the ages
by Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1957, Beverly Hall Corporation
ALSO
on Friday i'm headed down to Duke University, Divinity School Library to check out (possibly permanently, if i can. )the following book:
The Teachings of the Masters: The Wisdom of the Ages
an exposition of the ever active and constantly operating spiritual laws applicable not only to the regeneration of man changing mortality in to immortality transmuting the son of man in to a son of god but equally potent in helping man to achieve success and economic independence health, strength of body, and the peace of mind, and heart called heaven
again by
Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1952, Beverly Hall Corporation
WHICH, THANKS TO BILL COOPER (Mystery Babylon tape 37, Rose Cross Pt. 2), I HAVE NOW BEEN MADE AWARE OF, AND CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING:
"Prologue:
Early in the year 1916 instructions were received from the Count M Decent Vincent, Supreme Hierarch of the Fraternitas Rosecrucias, to make preparations for a sacred convocation on the 68th anniversary of the establishment of the Supreme Grand Dome of the Fraternitas and Associate Organizations as established in America by Dr. Paschal Beverley Randolph. At this convocation, which was to convene on June 1st, 1916, the Neophyte body was to be informed of a crisis that would be the beginning of the enslavement of the people of America in a manner so insidious that they would not be aware of it. America was to become engaged in a war that would be only the beginning of greater wars. It was prophesied that an effort would be made to destroy the Christian religion so secretly and silently that only the alert and elect would be aware of this activity. This effort is in full bloom today, and is making atheists out of millions, even before their Churches are destroyed, the reverse of what has happened and is happening in other countries. At this convocation we were instructed to hold daily lectures on subjects vitally important to all, in fact to all the world, and more especially so to Neophytes of The August Fraternity. These instructions were to be after the manner of Plato and the Round Table of King Arthur. [...]"
HMM.
So the Illuminati are the "good guys"?
My take is still out. But i find this to be "enLIGHTening", to say the least.
This book is WAY WAY WAY out of print.
So much so, that the Duke Divinity School library is the only library in 100 miles to have a copy,
and there are NO COPIES FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET (not on Amazon, not on Bookfinder, nowhere).
Hmm.
Let you know when i get my hands on it, Dan.
I just called my local library here in Oregon. The librarian informed me there are ONLY 50 COPIES IN THE ENTIRE WORLD and she would request it for me. She said with it being such a rare book, she couldn't guarantee if anyone would want to release it. She named several locations that had ownership of the book, Boston, and some place in Cali, and Arizona..now I really want to get my hands on a copy!
Good luck!
Hopefully Duke Divinity School Library doesn't fail me.
If it does, i'll be knocking down the doors at the library of congress when i go up north next! Glad to have a companion on the journey to truth.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Hmm. well whatever, Re: dan brown.
Roman Catholicism is definitely "evil" in the sense that the larger body that the Vatican is an integral organ of is pretty sick and warped.
Hehe. I'm not surprised you feel that way. I agree to an extent in that I think most institutionalizations of spiritual beliefs usually get "sick and warped" at some point.
As far as the bible, I personally find the NT to be much more compelling and a more interesting read than the OT. Certainly its main thematic concerns are far more relevant to the modern world than the OT, and all the description of bloodshed, customs, idolatry, etc therein. Not saying its not worth reading, just that it's a bit "dated". The NT, the parables of Jesus, his teachings generally, and particularly the writings of John are just pure gold. Revelations itself is a gas.
I am expecting as much, although I will think many parts of the NT are quite dated as well. Halfway through, I read the OT as pretty much the defence of monarchy, patriarchism and a god that resembles mesopotamian city-gods more than the modern concept of a creator. So far I have trouble seeing why it is included at all as "holy scripture".
Joseph Campbell ... meh.
I was a fan in highschool after a really good Comparative Religions class, but i tend to think of his ideas as largely discredited (along with a lot of Jung's) the more i get to actually understanding how religious and mythological concepts have passed down from the ages.
Jung and Campbell's rather (imho) way-off-the-mark theories hinge on the idea that we are all tied in to 1 mind on some level, and that our brains throughout the ages are accessing this same database of archetypes and rehashing them out. I (as well as a lot of other folks) find that pretty hard to swallow.
Although certain themes certainly do seem to reoccur more often than others, and some of these are spontaneous recounts to be sure,
knowing what i now know, it becomes easier to understand that MANY of the "different" myths that sound the same, ARE in fact the same, and have been deliberately rehashed and handed "down" by the exact same secret societies that are whoring out their philosophies to unsuspecting cultures. The Greek \ Roman myths are a prime example of this. There was no archetypal consciousness at work, the same secret religion was behind both of those cultures.
Ah, so he taps into Jungian ideas. Havent read him yet, you see. Jung isn't used much in modern psychology, that is true.
But this is a point of major disagreeance between us. I see it as immensely more probable that since all humans are wired pretty much the same biologically, it makes sense that we would tend to similar myths and so on. And perhaps more importantly, steal ideas from eachother, so that mythologies from bordering geographic areas will tend to influence eachother into a very similar understanding of the universe. Much more so than the 1 mythology being pushed by the super-brotherhood since couple thousand BC. (Again note that without the devil or similar, there is no vehicle for this to continue through the ages.)
As for greek culture, they have influenced pretty much the entire mediterranean, and there were greek colonies all over before Rome ever happened. Not that strange that Romans adopted greek understandings of the world. They are both expressions of mediterranean culture at both different and coexisting times.
Anywhoo.
I'm out. Late for a job.
Go get 'em, Tiger!
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Hehe. I'm not surprised you feel that way. I agree to an extent in that I think most institutionalizations of spiritual beliefs usually get "sick and warped" at some point.
Wait till you get to the NT, maybe you'll come around. Romanism is MUCH worse than just an "institutionalized spiritual belief", it is a command and control system, the richest entity on earth, former ruler of MOST of the earth, and still attempting to become the ruler again in some form. The entire body of interests that "the church" represents is so insidiously evil that its hard to even communicate. You may want to just skip on to Revelations to try and get an understanding of just how despicable it is. Revelations portrays the Roman church as "the second beast", which gives the life of breath to the 1st beast (the state of rome, or the empire and its king). The only thing more insidious than either of those, and which Revelations speaks mountains against is The Whore who rides on the back of the beast. She is MYSTERY BABYLON itself, the very secret religion of the elite who wish to control the world and enslave all mankind for their own benefit. Maybe it sounds crazy to you, but i assure you, this is the true message of Revelations. All the crockpot hocus pocus theories you hear about it are just a distraction from the truth -- which is that the bible is specifically and in no uncertain terms condemning both institutionalized religion, the empires that it rules with, and the SECRET religion of the elite that exists behind BOTH institutions (the church AND the state0!
I am expecting as much, although I will think many parts of the NT are quite dated as well. Halfway through, I read the OT as pretty much the defence of monarchy, patriarchism and a god that resembles mesopotamian city-gods more than the modern concept of a creator. So far I have trouble seeing why it is included at all as "holy scripture".
I think you're pretty on point about the OT.
It's "included" because for it's time it WAS the Holy Scripture. It stands in stark contrast with all but very limited segments of the NT, which essentially says that man is to be held accountable to his own inner sense of morality as received via the holy spirit (meaning that man is to receive directly, via his own enlightenment, an adequate moral philosophy. this is NOT to be inferred as Moral Relativism though!) , to eachother, and to his own faith in a higher justice. Primarily what it is saying is that man need NEVER to look to *other men* for "the way", but always and ONLY to GOD "him"self. One has to understand that "Jesus" was asking men to be much higher minded than the typical man ever achieves, to recognize Right from Wrong for himself, and to attribute the delineation of morality to the True God only, not to pagan idolatry or to some Church because it tells you to, or to avoid some penalty, but BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT TO BE RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE COME TO RECEIVE THE LIGHT OF GOD, AND KNOW IT IN YOUR HEART TO BE TRUE. That is the primary thing i get from the NT. After that, you start to see a LOT of "empire is bad bad bad. controlled top-down worship structures are an instrument of satan. and the kings and religious leaders are all fools or pompous asses at best, or corrupt and indefensible at worst." Remember, Jesus said things like:
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." john 15:18
"Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. " Luke 11:43
"Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets." Luke 20:46
"They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God." - John 16:2
See? He spoke openly and plainly AGAINST priests, religious leaders, and "lords", and spoke to the people that all they needed was in their heart\soul, and to not be discouraged.
Further, he was actually preaching spiritual tolerance:
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. - Colossians 2
See again? Just accept that there is a higher authority, something that man MUST be held accountable to on account of his own fallibility, and DO YOUR BEST to uphold that accountability. Don't fear if you fail, because Jesus loves you, and all you must do is HONESTLY in your heart yearn for that perfection, though never to achieve, and YOU ARE FORGIVEN.
No penance. No works. No "indulgences" need to be purchased. No rosary prayers. No forced trips to church. No tithe. NONE OF THAT.
I *really* dig MOST of what JC had to say.
"He" was largely on the money. Big time.
John, via Revelations is a knock out as well.
Favorite books are still Mark, John (gospel) and Revelations.
JAh, so he taps into Jungian ideas. Havent read him yet, you see. Jung isn't used much in modern psychology, that is true.
But this is a point of major disagreeance between us. I see it as immensely more probable that since all humans are wired pretty much the same biologically, it makes sense that we would tend to similar myths and so on. And perhaps more importantly, steal ideas from eachother, so that mythologies from bordering geographic areas will tend to influence eachother into a very similar understanding of the universe. Much more so than the 1 mythology being pushed by the super-brotherhood since couple thousand BC. (Again note that without the devil or similar, there is no vehicle for this to continue through the ages.)
As for greek culture, they have influenced pretty much the entire mediterranean, and there were greek colonies all over before Rome ever happened. Not that strange that Romans adopted greek understandings of the world. They are both expressions of mediterranean culture at both different and coexisting times.
Dan, we can certainly disagree here, but i think i will give you the general notion that cultures do share via random happenstance and collision of culture, mutual exchange, borrowing over the ages, etc ... sure THAT DOES happen.
What Campbell was talking about more often than not however was DIRECTLY JUNGIAN.
In fact, Joseph Campbell actually wrote the introduction to some books on Jung (google it, i can't remember, but he was very much influenced by Jung). My BIG problem with this is that i largely REFUTE "Collective Unconscious" as some sort of hokey new aged shit.
I'll even give you that on a quantum level you could articulately argue that we are all one, that everything is one, and that perhaps consciousness is NOT limited to the individual body. However, i really think it misses the boat to ascribe the large bulk of the repetitious forms of myth to this highly speculative phenomenon.
What i think Campbell missed (and Jung, having written books on alchemy himself, should have been well aware of) is that there is a hidden hand in this world, that has been around since Babylon, that has been whoring out the same crap day in day out down throughout the ages, and that THIS phenomenon accounts for a LOT of the overlap of myth on through to the modern era.
Even Star Wars, much more so than being just some random tap in to the alleged "collective unconscious" of "archetypes" (or "forms" as plato would say?), is a blatant and deliberate attempt to hash out much of the same philosophy that the NT bible (and again, Revelations in particular) is attempting to relay. It is a power struggle bewteen the forces of "good" and "evil", with "good" being a federation of liberal REPUBLICS and "evil" being a monolithic conspiratorial EMPIRE where all are forced to worship the "lord" and his council OR PERISH.
In fact, there are SO many ways in which Star Wars directly parallels the struggle between the illuminist forces and their vatican\roman empire rival that it is hard to even put in to a concise form. Although saying it is secret socities vs. the old outer order (vatican) puts it in to the context of being like part of what the bible is DESCRIBING in revelations (the beasts fighting with the whore, around chapter 17 or so) but NOT the philosophy of the bible itself. Remember, Jesus said, in John 18:20
"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret..
Star Wars is taking the side of the Whore of Babylon, imho. NOT the biblical POV.
Anywho.
Off to see the GF now.
Sheesh, i typed WAY too long!
L8r, dan!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Wait till you get to the NT, maybe you'll come around. Romanism is MUCH worse than just an "institutionalized spiritual belief", it is a command and control system, the richest entity on earth, former ruler of MOST of the earth, and still attempting to become the ruler again in some form. The entire body of interests that "the church" represents is so insidiously evil that its hard to even communicate. You may want to just skip on to Revelations to try and get an understanding of just how despicable it is. Revelations portrays the Roman church as "the second beast", which gives the life of breath to the 1st beast (the state of rome, or the empire and its king). The only thing more insidious than either of those, and which Revelations speaks mountains against is The Whore who rides on the back of the beast. She is MYSTERY BABYLON itself, the very secret religion of the elite who wish to control the world and enslave all mankind for their own benefit. Maybe it sounds crazy to you, but i assure you, this is the true message of Revelations. All the crockpot hocus pocus theories you hear about it are just a distraction from the truth -- which is that the bible is specifically and in no uncertain terms condemning both institutionalized religion, the empires that it rules with, and the SECRET religion of the elite that exists behind BOTH institutions (the church AND the state0!
Actually, it does sound crazy to me. I have no faith in prophecy at all. Prophesies ever come true only because they're either so generic they can't fail (This city/empire will fall! Evil people will rule! There will be conflict!), or they come true because people believe that they are true and act accordingly (self-fulfilling). So I have no faith in that revelations is a window into the future.
The point of my reading of the bible is to put it into the context of the time it was written, and understand it like that. Not to seek "the truth" supposedly in there. So I also read up on Mesopotamian religion, and now the concept of myths and how they correlate with eachother to understand this better.
No love lost towards the vatican from me, but I actually dont view them much worse than other organized religions. Btw, since you're so opposed to the vatican, why do you put such faith in the book they made? It would stand to reason that if they're the spawn of Satan, and they put the bible together, that the bible is influenced by Satan. Right?
I think you're pretty on point about the OT.
It's "included" because for it's time it WAS the Holy Scripture. It stands in stark contrast with all but very limited segments of the NT, which essentially says that man is to be held accountable to his own inner sense of morality as received via the holy spirit (meaning that man is to receive directly, via his own enlightenment, an adequate moral philosophy. this is NOT to be inferred as Moral Relativism though!) , to eachother, and to his own faith in a higher justice. Primarily what it is saying is that man need NEVER to look to *other men* for "the way", but always and ONLY to GOD "him"self. One has to understand that "Jesus" was asking men to be much higher minded than the typical man ever achieves, to recognize Right from Wrong for himself, and to attribute the delineation of morality to the True God only, not to pagan idolatry or to some Church because it tells you to, or to avoid some penalty, but BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT TO BE RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE COME TO RECEIVE THE LIGHT OF GOD, AND KNOW IT IN YOUR HEART TO BE TRUE. That is the primary thing i get from the NT. After that, you start to see a LOT of "empire is bad bad bad. controlled top-down worship structures are an instrument of satan. and the kings and religious leaders are all fools or pompous asses at best, or corrupt and indefensible at worst." Remember, Jesus said things like: *snip*
See? He spoke openly and plainly AGAINST priests, religious leaders, and "lords", and spoke to the people that all they needed was in their heart\soul, and to not be discouraged.
It's all about faith then. But then, if you dont have faith (like me) it doesnt make any sense at all. And that is the point: believing, not knowing.
He spoke primarily against the jewish "church" of his own days, or rather the glorious return to the ancient jewish "church" once more. But Jesus can easily be interpreted as anti-authority, or rather fit into the jewish prophet tradition, where prophets always chide their country-men of being un-godly and so forth, and command them to return to the (traditional) way of god.
And again, the NT is the part that was definitely put together by the proto-church. If the church is evil, why believe what they write?
Dan, we can certainly disagree here, but i think i will give you the general notion that cultures do share via random happenstance and collision of culture, mutual exchange, borrowing over the ages, etc ... sure THAT DOES happen.
What Campbell was talking about more often than not however was DIRECTLY JUNGIAN.
In fact, Joseph Campbell actually wrote the introduction to some books on Jung (google it, i can't remember, but he was very much influenced by Jung). My BIG problem with this is that i largely REFUTE "Collective Unconscious" as some sort of hokey new aged shit.
I'll even give you that on a quantum level you could articulately argue that we are all one, that everything is one, and that perhaps consciousness is NOT limited to the individual body. However, i really think it misses the boat to ascribe the large bulk of the repetitious forms of myth to this highly speculative phenomenon.
So far so good.
What i think Campbell missed (and Jung, having written books on alchemy himself, should have been well aware of) is that there is a hidden hand in this world, that has been around since Babylon, that has been whoring out the same crap day in day out down throughout the ages, and that THIS phenomenon accounts for a LOT of the overlap of myth on through to the modern era.
...and exactly THERE you lose me. That statement relies on faith, pretty much, and if I understand you correctly, thorough reading of revelations as a blueprint for the future. Instead of one source (which is logical to christians since that's where you get your beliefs from), I look for the similar circumstances and the common elements in it and other sources. when you understand the mindset of the author(s), you have a much better chance to understand what they're writing about. Far more than applying more and more modern interpretations on the same literal words.
Even Star Wars, much more so than being just some random tap in to the alleged "collective unconscious" of "archetypes" (or "forms" as plato would say?), is a blatant and deliberate attempt to hash out much of the same philosophy that the NT bible (and again, Revelations in particular) is attempting to relay. It is a power struggle bewteen the forces of "good" and "evil", with "good" being a federation of liberal REPUBLICS and "evil" being a monolithic conspiratorial EMPIRE where all are forced to worship the "lord" and his council OR PERISH.
In fact, there are SO many ways in which Star Wars directly parallels the struggle between the illuminist forces and their vatican\roman empire rival that it is hard to even put in to a concise form. Although saying it is secret socities vs. the old outer order (vatican) puts it in to the context of being like part of what the bible is DESCRIBING in revelations (the beasts fighting with the whore, around chapter 17 or so) but NOT the philosophy of the bible itself. Remember, Jesus said, in John 18:20
"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret..
Star Wars is taking the side of the Whore of Babylon, imho. NOT the biblical POV.
Is Star Wars some illuminist plot to convert people... OR does the maker/writer of Star Wars deliberately mix in symbolism, myths and hero-traits that we are already familiar with and underlies our culture and worldview? Star wars can be understood as a metaphor for just about anything. Like Lord of the rings and similar, it's the struggle between good and evil, where evil is a brutal tyranny and good is more or less independent free people. It's so basic a story really, and one that we love hearing about since our culture is soaked with such literature.
Anywho.
Off to see the GF now.
Sheesh, i typed WAY too long!
L8r, dan!
Well, that was long.
I typed a bit more than I thought I would too. But it seems clear we stand at different mountain-tops with a pretty deep abyss between us when it comes to how we understand the world. That abyss consists for the most part of evangelical christianity and literal belief in the bible. That won't be bridged any time soon.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Actually, it does sound crazy to me. I have no faith in prophecy at all.
Dan i have NO time this morning so i haven't even read passed your opening volley,
but we'll get there later.
All i can say is you are ABSOLUTELY MISREADING the NT if this is your stance.
This book was written by MEN, and these "prophecies" are nothing more than a fancy literary technique to obscure from direct political pressure the motives of the authors of the pieces, and are intended to GIVE MORE FORCE to the contents.
Don't think of them as literal prophesies.
For instance, the Book of Daniel was written (most scholars agree) AFTER ALL OF THE EVENTS IT "prophesies".
What it was trying to do is use the idea of a prophecy to show that "God" (or the powers of light, good, and justice in this universe) DO NOT APPROVE OF EMPIRE, LORDSHIP, & THE WORSHIP OF MAN.
It was used to convey to "true believers" (those who accept that man should rule HIMSELF under god, and not rule OTHER MEN) that THEY are in the right, and to show what happens to proud men who lord over others.
The book of Revelation is largely the same.
It is talking about (and in some instance making very accurate predictions, likely based on the fact that the author had a VERY acute understanding of the inner workings of these secret orders, "MYSTERY BABYLON" - rev 18) PASSED EVENTS, CURRENT EVENTS (at the time) and either (depending on your interpretation) PREDICTIONS OF FUTURE EVENTS, or even more conspiratorially ENCODED PLANS TO BRING ABOUT FUTURE EVENTS (the downfall of the Roman Church and worldly governments, for the establishment of a "kingdom of christ") ...
They weren't meant to be "crazy prophesies".
I HAVE to go.
Peace
-dbts
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Dan i have NO time this morning so i haven't even read passed your opening volley,
but we'll get there later.
All i can say is you are ABSOLUTELY MISREADING the NT if this is your stance.
This book was written by MEN, and these "prophecies" are nothing more than a fancy literary technique to obscure from direct political pressure the motives of the authors of the pieces, and are intended to GIVE MORE FORCE to the contents.
Don't think of them as literal prophesies.
For instance, the Book of Daniel was written (most scholars agree) AFTER ALL OF THE EVENTS IT "prophesies".
What it was trying to do is use the idea of a prophecy to show that "God" (or the powers of light, good, and justice in this universe) DO NOT APPROVE OF EMPIRE, LORDSHIP, & THE WORSHIP OF MAN.
It was used to convey to "true believers" (those who accept that man should rule HIMSELF under god, and not rule OTHER MEN) that THEY are in the right, and to show what happens to proud men who lord over others.
With you so far. It is my impression that most of the bible is written in retrospect like that.
The book of Revelation is largely the same.
It is talking about (and in some instance making very accurate predictions, likely based on the fact that the author had a VERY acute understanding of the inner workings of these secret orders, "MYSTERY BABYLON" - rev 18) PASSED EVENTS, CURRENT EVENTS (at the time) and either (depending on your interpretation) PREDICTIONS OF FUTURE EVENTS, or even more conspiratorially ENCODED PLANS TO BRING ABOUT FUTURE EVENTS (the downfall of the Roman Church and worldly governments, for the establishment of a "kingdom of christ") ...
But the bolded part here is a bigass assumption, isn't it? I agree that revelations is probably about stuff happening at the time or wishful thinking, but there's a big jump from that to concluding that someone is trying to spread some "hidden" knowledge of sorts. And even if it does truthfully convey something about it's time and rulers then (which i do not necessarily concede), it is a further bigass assumption that the same thing is still going on by essentially the same people (or their descendants). In short, it's relevance today is highly questionable to say the least, if you discount the religious prophetic aspect.
So that's two pretty huge assumptions there that I can't see is necessary or very likely at all. Again, the devil is the only possible vehicle to keep this together through the centuries, which puts religious faith as a prerequisite. And many of the CTers are quite openly religiously motivated. Which all in all earns them a couple of barrels of mistrust from me. That means they cut some corners that shouldn't (or really can't) be cut, and makes it far too easy to draw events out over long timelines. (When history has shown that just about nothing about power lasts very long. Even openly and legitimately displayed from a position of undeniably great power.) These timelines need the eternal god, and the equally eternal devil as the mirror image.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
uh oh, they've even gotten to betty white! :shock:
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
UNBELIEVABLE!! The Library just sent me a message to come and pick up this book. It is ready!
DESCHUTES PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEM
BEND PUBLIC LIBRARY
601 NW WALL ST
BEND, OR 97701
05-15-10
LISA ANN ROUTHIER
The following requested items are available for pickup.
AUTHOR:
ILL-THE TEACHINGS OF THE MASTERS
CALL NO:
BARCODE: 35394009776184
LOCATION: Bend Adult Mats.
PICKUP AT: Bend BY: 05-24-10
Just picked the book up and started taking pics of it. After trying to shoot different angles, different lighting, I finally was able to get very few decent shots. I was getting pissed, I mean, how hard is it to take a pic of a freaking book, but I had the hardest time. Bizarre. I am the 3rd person to check it out since 1954, the other date was from 1970. It had the original flap that held the card where you actually stamp it with the date.The library it was borrowed from was the Univerity at Walla Walla. I have pics if anyone wants to see them. Can't wait to read this book!
4:316
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
I read the first couple of pages last night when I got home from work, was tired, but needed to get started on this book. So far its a completed trip! I have a pic of the first page I want to post but not sure how.
I knew all the rules, but the rules did not know me...GUARANTEED!
Comments
you mean like Elvi sightings at a gas station in the mid west somewhere or the UFO and BIGFOOT sightings.
goverment is hiding those also.
just kidding with ya
Godfather.
Well, it's not exactly what you asked for,
but here is proof that the entire Luciferian occult elite "Mystery Babylon" system IS directly tied to the Vatican\Catholicism\The Pope (which is nothing more than the exoteric manifestation of their esoteric worship) ...
Black Mass \ Catholic Mass Being Performed At Bohemian Grove, 1927
uncropped original
But couldn't you have just inferred that directly from The Bible?
I mean Revelations doesn't really mince words on the subject, does it?
For those with no bible background (i'm just gaining my chops myself, fyi)
Rev 17
17:1 "... I will show you the punishment of the great whore, who sits on many waters, with her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries" and 17:5 directly states, in all caps, not my emphasis, typed as such:
17:5
"This title was written on her forehead:
______________MYSTERY____________
_________BABYLON THE GREAT_______
____THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES____
AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
"
Pyramid much?
17:9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits."
[image taken from The Dark Powers That Bind, Chapter 6: Rome]
From Wikipedia, "The Seven Hills of Rome":
The Seven Hills of Rome (Italian: Sette colli di Roma) east of the river Tiber form the geographical heart of Rome, within the walls of the ancient city.
The seven hills are:
* Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
* Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
* Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
* Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
* Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
* Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
* Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)
So WHY WOULD ROME BE REFERRED TO AS WHERE THE WHORE OF BABYLON SITS?
Maybe whomever wrote this part of the bible was well aware of the history of the secret religion of the elite who rule empires from behind the throne? It didn't start in Rome, it started at the dawn of empire, in Babylon. This is where "The Mystery Schools" have their roots. Go listen to the Bill Cooper "Mystery Babylon" series to hear his excellent take on the whole ridiculous rouse.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
The revelations stuff is extremely vague.
17.1 could be anyone and anything.
The names are pretty generic and just underlines "something/someone bad".
Pyramid? Is that supposed to be a link to egyptian stuff?
As for seven hills, that can be any set of hills in the world. Plenty of hills in Israel/Lebanon/Turkey/Syria, if that's roughly where the text is from.
Even my hometown in Norway is said to be inbetween 7 mountains. Depends a bit on how you count really. 7 is a good number, better than 5 or 9 which also could be claimed.
But even if Rome is the city alluded to, wouldn't it make more sense that the text refers to the Roman empire, and a heartfelt wish that it would tumble? (that sat on many seas around the Mediterranean and who had all sorts of kings and allies support it's causes) So this may all be bygones along long time ago. Since the church didn't even exist when the text was written, I find it hard to see the reference there, really.
This sounds suspiciously as popular evangelical conspiracy theories to underline that the catholics are wrong, and they are because they're headed by the devil's minions or something.
(edit) But well done. Didn't connect crosses in flags with it, but an honourable attempt nonetheless. I'll take a little time-out and ponder other random stuff I can ask for a conspiracy theory linking them.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
heh
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
The hidden teachings of the initiate masters: The simplified arcane, esoteric and occult teachings of the initiates and masters in the initiatory schools ... which governs in the new order of the ages
by Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1957, Beverly Hall Corporation
ALSO
on Friday i'm headed down to Duke University, Divinity School Library to check out (possibly permanently, if i can.
The Teachings of the Masters: The Wisdom of the Ages
an exposition of the ever active and constantly operating spiritual laws applicable not only to the regeneration of man changing mortality in to immortality transmuting the son of man in to a son of god but equally potent in helping man to achieve success and economic independence health, strength of body, and the peace of mind, and heart called heaven
again by
Reverend Dr. R. Swineburn Clymer
Director General, Church of Illumination
Supreme Grand Commander of the International Confederation of Initiates
Supreme Grand Commander of the Merged Occult Fraternities
comprising The Priesthood of Aeth, The Rosicrution Order, The Secret Societies, The Hermetic Brotherhood, Fraternetas Rosicrucias, Temple of the Rosey Cross, The Order of the Magi, Sons of Isis and Osiris, Illuminati Americani
published by the Philosophical Publishing Company
Beverly Hall, Quakertown PA
C 1952, Beverly Hall Corporation
WHICH, THANKS TO BILL COOPER (Mystery Babylon tape 37, Rose Cross Pt. 2), I HAVE NOW BEEN MADE AWARE OF, AND CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING:
"Prologue:
Early in the year 1916 instructions were received from the Count M Decent Vincent, Supreme Hierarch of the Fraternitas Rosecrucias, to make preparations for a sacred convocation on the 68th anniversary of the establishment of the Supreme Grand Dome of the Fraternitas and Associate Organizations as established in America by Dr. Paschal Beverley Randolph. At this convocation, which was to convene on June 1st, 1916, the Neophyte body was to be informed of a crisis that would be the beginning of the enslavement of the people of America in a manner so insidious that they would not be aware of it. America was to become engaged in a war that would be only the beginning of greater wars. It was prophesied that an effort would be made to destroy the Christian religion so secretly and silently that only the alert and elect would be aware of this activity. This effort is in full bloom today, and is making atheists out of millions, even before their Churches are destroyed, the reverse of what has happened and is happening in other countries. At this convocation we were instructed to hold daily lectures on subjects vitally important to all, in fact to all the world, and more especially so to Neophytes of The August Fraternity. These instructions were to be after the manner of Plato and the Round Table of King Arthur. [...]"
HMM.
So the Illuminati are the "good guys"?
My take is still out. But i find this to be "enLIGHTening", to say the least.
This book is WAY WAY WAY out of print.
So much so, that the Duke Divinity School library is the only library in 100 miles to have a copy,
and there are NO COPIES FOR SALE ON THE INTERNET (not on Amazon, not on Bookfinder, nowhere).
Hmm.
Let you know when i get my hands on it, Dan.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I do wonder, what's the big deal about a North American Union....why is it such a bad thing...?
I'm pretty sure I've seen this sort of information being discussed on late night coo-coo for coco puffs religious television shows..."BE PREPARED FOR THE SIGN OF THE BEAST IS UPON US...666...NEW WORLD ORDER...ORDER OUR NEW MAGAZINE/BOOK/VHS TAPE or CASSETTE TO LEARN MORE MORE MORE..."
Um, did you check the author of the aforementioned quotes (the post above your lame excuse for mockery)?
I'm not quoting crackpot conspiracy theorists or televangelists (but to be sure, large tracts of the bible, Revelations nearly in total, are blatant anti globalist-imperialist conspiracy rants, try reading it if you can muster up the mental fortitude. get a study bible to help you wrap your head around it, i know metaphor is pretty tricky stuff) ...
IT WAS QUOTES FROM A BOOK WRITTEN BY THE GRAND COMMANDER OF THE MERGED OCCULT FRATERNITIES WHICH INCLUDES THE ILLUMINATI ITSELF (also the OTO, All Rosicrucian branches, and about a dozen other appendant bodies).
In other words, this is "THEIR" direct writing, from the very top.
The only question is, can you trust that the same people engaged in a mega-worldwide multi-headed group DECEPTION (and make no mistake, they misrepresent themselves CONSTANTLY to the outside world) to be telling you the truth about who is doing what?
Are they *really* on "our" side?
I dunno.
I can get you the rest of the quotes, after i transcribe them, where he goes on to talk about how America has an ever dimming destiny and responsibility to BE the "new order" but that as we as a nation continue to prove ourselves unworthy, we head ever faster in to a disutopic dictatorial order which he compares to "hell on earth".
Again, this coming from THE HEAD OF THE WESTERN ORDER OF THE ILLUMINATI, HIMSELF.
Some crackpot, i'm sure.
Wiki STup on R Swinburne Clymer
If I opened it now would you not understand?
tell me again why it's such a big deal to form a North American Union...?
Nice evasion of half of the discussion.
The formation of ANY sort of EXTRA-Constitutional government is a DIRECT SUBVERSION AND VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUION.
If you are an American, who takes adherence to the document seriously, it is a HUGE deal.
It is IRREPARABLE if you subject your self to extra-constitutional government.
We are already under UN jurisdiction, which is a huge mistake.
To outright commit ourselves to a supranational governing body would be United States constitutional suicide.
But i'm guessing your one of the types that thinks the constitution was a mistake written by a bunch of elitist old racist white men and that it has no relevance or merit in our "modern" world of moral ambiguity and necessarily vague political principles?
:?:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I play it safe by never believing anything a dog tells me.
um...yeah, you nailed it... :shifty: I'm one of those sorts...
I'm guessing you're a big supporter of the 3/5 Compromise...
I do find it funny, for someone who is so paranoid, that you would even dare post this sort of information on the web...you may get a knock on your door or bunker...
I also find it amusing that you can't answer the question of what the big issue is...I'm being honest, your responses have not made it clear to me as to how this will lead to the downfall of mankind...
You do that. Sounds very "Da Vinci code". The only book at that only library.
I'm expecting a rather long-winded "why catholics are evil" summary.
As for me, I'll try to finish the bible this summer, or at least the OT (Halfway through now) and thinking of picking up some books by Joseph Campbell on the nature of myths and their role through human history.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
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Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
Hmm. well whatever, Re: dan brown.
Roman Catholicism is definitely "evil" in the sense that the larger body that the Vatican is an integral organ of is pretty sick and warped.
As far as the bible, I personally find the NT to be much more compelling and a more interesting read than the OT. Certainly its main thematic concerns are far more relevant to the modern world than the OT, and all the description of bloodshed, customs, idolatry, etc therein. Not saying its not worth reading, just that it's a bit "dated". The NT, the parables of Jesus, his teachings generally, and particularly the writings of John are just pure gold. Revelations itself is a gas.
Joseph Campbell ... meh.
I was a fan in highschool after a really good Comparative Religions class, but i tend to think of his ideas as largely discredited (along with a lot of Jung's) the more i get to actually understanding how religious and mythological concepts have passed down from the ages.
Jung and Campbell's rather (imho) way-off-the-mark theories hinge on the idea that we are all tied in to 1 mind on some level, and that our brains throughout the ages are accessing this same database of archetypes and rehashing them out. I (as well as a lot of other folks) find that pretty hard to swallow.
Although certain themes certainly do seem to reoccur more often than others, and some of these are spontaneous recounts to be sure,
knowing what i now know, it becomes easier to understand that MANY of the "different" myths that sound the same, ARE in fact the same, and have been deliberately rehashed and handed "down" by the exact same secret societies that are whoring out their philosophies to unsuspecting cultures. The Greek \ Roman myths are a prime example of this. There was no archetypal consciousness at work, the same secret religion was behind both of those cultures.
Anywhoo.
I'm out. Late for a job.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Good luck!
Hopefully Duke Divinity School Library doesn't fail me.
If it does, i'll be knocking down the doors at the library of congress when i go up north next!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I am expecting as much, although I will think many parts of the NT are quite dated as well. Halfway through, I read the OT as pretty much the defence of monarchy, patriarchism and a god that resembles mesopotamian city-gods more than the modern concept of a creator. So far I have trouble seeing why it is included at all as "holy scripture".
Ah, so he taps into Jungian ideas. Havent read him yet, you see. Jung isn't used much in modern psychology, that is true.
But this is a point of major disagreeance between us. I see it as immensely more probable that since all humans are wired pretty much the same biologically, it makes sense that we would tend to similar myths and so on. And perhaps more importantly, steal ideas from eachother, so that mythologies from bordering geographic areas will tend to influence eachother into a very similar understanding of the universe. Much more so than the 1 mythology being pushed by the super-brotherhood since couple thousand BC. (Again note that without the devil or similar, there is no vehicle for this to continue through the ages.)
As for greek culture, they have influenced pretty much the entire mediterranean, and there were greek colonies all over before Rome ever happened. Not that strange that Romans adopted greek understandings of the world. They are both expressions of mediterranean culture at both different and coexisting times.
Go get 'em, Tiger!
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Wait till you get to the NT, maybe you'll come around. Romanism is MUCH worse than just an "institutionalized spiritual belief", it is a command and control system, the richest entity on earth, former ruler of MOST of the earth, and still attempting to become the ruler again in some form. The entire body of interests that "the church" represents is so insidiously evil that its hard to even communicate. You may want to just skip on to Revelations to try and get an understanding of just how despicable it is. Revelations portrays the Roman church as "the second beast", which gives the life of breath to the 1st beast (the state of rome, or the empire and its king). The only thing more insidious than either of those, and which Revelations speaks mountains against is The Whore who rides on the back of the beast. She is MYSTERY BABYLON itself, the very secret religion of the elite who wish to control the world and enslave all mankind for their own benefit. Maybe it sounds crazy to you, but i assure you, this is the true message of Revelations. All the crockpot hocus pocus theories you hear about it are just a distraction from the truth -- which is that the bible is specifically and in no uncertain terms condemning both institutionalized religion, the empires that it rules with, and the SECRET religion of the elite that exists behind BOTH institutions (the church AND the state0!
I think you're pretty on point about the OT.
It's "included" because for it's time it WAS the Holy Scripture. It stands in stark contrast with all but very limited segments of the NT, which essentially says that man is to be held accountable to his own inner sense of morality as received via the holy spirit (meaning that man is to receive directly, via his own enlightenment, an adequate moral philosophy. this is NOT to be inferred as Moral Relativism though!) , to eachother, and to his own faith in a higher justice. Primarily what it is saying is that man need NEVER to look to *other men* for "the way", but always and ONLY to GOD "him"self. One has to understand that "Jesus" was asking men to be much higher minded than the typical man ever achieves, to recognize Right from Wrong for himself, and to attribute the delineation of morality to the True God only, not to pagan idolatry or to some Church because it tells you to, or to avoid some penalty, but BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT TO BE RIGHT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE COME TO RECEIVE THE LIGHT OF GOD, AND KNOW IT IN YOUR HEART TO BE TRUE. That is the primary thing i get from the NT. After that, you start to see a LOT of "empire is bad bad bad. controlled top-down worship structures are an instrument of satan. and the kings and religious leaders are all fools or pompous asses at best, or corrupt and indefensible at worst." Remember, Jesus said things like:
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." john 15:18
"Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. " Luke 11:43
"Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets." Luke 20:46
"They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God." - John 16:2
See? He spoke openly and plainly AGAINST priests, religious leaders, and "lords", and spoke to the people that all they needed was in their heart\soul, and to not be discouraged.
Further, he was actually preaching spiritual tolerance:
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. - Colossians 2
See again? Just accept that there is a higher authority, something that man MUST be held accountable to on account of his own fallibility, and DO YOUR BEST to uphold that accountability. Don't fear if you fail, because Jesus loves you, and all you must do is HONESTLY in your heart yearn for that perfection, though never to achieve, and YOU ARE FORGIVEN.
No penance. No works. No "indulgences" need to be purchased. No rosary prayers. No forced trips to church. No tithe. NONE OF THAT.
I *really* dig MOST of what JC had to say.
"He" was largely on the money. Big time.
John, via Revelations is a knock out as well.
Favorite books are still Mark, John (gospel) and Revelations.
Dan, we can certainly disagree here, but i think i will give you the general notion that cultures do share via random happenstance and collision of culture, mutual exchange, borrowing over the ages, etc ... sure THAT DOES happen.
What Campbell was talking about more often than not however was DIRECTLY JUNGIAN.
In fact, Joseph Campbell actually wrote the introduction to some books on Jung (google it, i can't remember, but he was very much influenced by Jung). My BIG problem with this is that i largely REFUTE "Collective Unconscious" as some sort of hokey new aged shit.
I'll even give you that on a quantum level you could articulately argue that we are all one, that everything is one, and that perhaps consciousness is NOT limited to the individual body. However, i really think it misses the boat to ascribe the large bulk of the repetitious forms of myth to this highly speculative phenomenon.
What i think Campbell missed (and Jung, having written books on alchemy himself, should have been well aware of) is that there is a hidden hand in this world, that has been around since Babylon, that has been whoring out the same crap day in day out down throughout the ages, and that THIS phenomenon accounts for a LOT of the overlap of myth on through to the modern era.
Even Star Wars, much more so than being just some random tap in to the alleged "collective unconscious" of "archetypes" (or "forms" as plato would say?), is a blatant and deliberate attempt to hash out much of the same philosophy that the NT bible (and again, Revelations in particular) is attempting to relay. It is a power struggle bewteen the forces of "good" and "evil", with "good" being a federation of liberal REPUBLICS and "evil" being a monolithic conspiratorial EMPIRE where all are forced to worship the "lord" and his council OR PERISH.
In fact, there are SO many ways in which Star Wars directly parallels the struggle between the illuminist forces and their vatican\roman empire rival that it is hard to even put in to a concise form. Although saying it is secret socities vs. the old outer order (vatican) puts it in to the context of being like part of what the bible is DESCRIBING in revelations (the beasts fighting with the whore, around chapter 17 or so) but NOT the philosophy of the bible itself. Remember, Jesus said, in John 18:20
"I have spoken openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret..
Star Wars is taking the side of the Whore of Babylon, imho. NOT the biblical POV.
Anywho.
Off to see the GF now.
Sheesh, i typed WAY too long!
L8r, dan!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The point of my reading of the bible is to put it into the context of the time it was written, and understand it like that. Not to seek "the truth" supposedly in there. So I also read up on Mesopotamian religion, and now the concept of myths and how they correlate with eachother to understand this better.
No love lost towards the vatican from me, but I actually dont view them much worse than other organized religions. Btw, since you're so opposed to the vatican, why do you put such faith in the book they made? It would stand to reason that if they're the spawn of Satan, and they put the bible together, that the bible is influenced by Satan. Right?
It's all about faith then. But then, if you dont have faith (like me) it doesnt make any sense at all. And that is the point: believing, not knowing.
He spoke primarily against the jewish "church" of his own days, or rather the glorious return to the ancient jewish "church" once more. But Jesus can easily be interpreted as anti-authority, or rather fit into the jewish prophet tradition, where prophets always chide their country-men of being un-godly and so forth, and command them to return to the (traditional) way of god.
And again, the NT is the part that was definitely put together by the proto-church. If the church is evil, why believe what they write?
So far so good.
...and exactly THERE you lose me. That statement relies on faith, pretty much, and if I understand you correctly, thorough reading of revelations as a blueprint for the future. Instead of one source (which is logical to christians since that's where you get your beliefs from), I look for the similar circumstances and the common elements in it and other sources. when you understand the mindset of the author(s), you have a much better chance to understand what they're writing about. Far more than applying more and more modern interpretations on the same literal words.
Is Star Wars some illuminist plot to convert people... OR does the maker/writer of Star Wars deliberately mix in symbolism, myths and hero-traits that we are already familiar with and underlies our culture and worldview? Star wars can be understood as a metaphor for just about anything. Like Lord of the rings and similar, it's the struggle between good and evil, where evil is a brutal tyranny and good is more or less independent free people. It's so basic a story really, and one that we love hearing about since our culture is soaked with such literature.
Well, that was long.
I typed a bit more than I thought I would too. But it seems clear we stand at different mountain-tops with a pretty deep abyss between us when it comes to how we understand the world. That abyss consists for the most part of evangelical christianity and literal belief in the bible. That won't be bridged any time soon.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Dan i have NO time this morning so i haven't even read passed your opening volley,
but we'll get there later.
All i can say is you are ABSOLUTELY MISREADING the NT if this is your stance.
This book was written by MEN, and these "prophecies" are nothing more than a fancy literary technique to obscure from direct political pressure the motives of the authors of the pieces, and are intended to GIVE MORE FORCE to the contents.
Don't think of them as literal prophesies.
For instance, the Book of Daniel was written (most scholars agree) AFTER ALL OF THE EVENTS IT "prophesies".
What it was trying to do is use the idea of a prophecy to show that "God" (or the powers of light, good, and justice in this universe) DO NOT APPROVE OF EMPIRE, LORDSHIP, & THE WORSHIP OF MAN.
It was used to convey to "true believers" (those who accept that man should rule HIMSELF under god, and not rule OTHER MEN) that THEY are in the right, and to show what happens to proud men who lord over others.
The book of Revelation is largely the same.
It is talking about (and in some instance making very accurate predictions, likely based on the fact that the author had a VERY acute understanding of the inner workings of these secret orders, "MYSTERY BABYLON" - rev 18) PASSED EVENTS, CURRENT EVENTS (at the time) and either (depending on your interpretation) PREDICTIONS OF FUTURE EVENTS, or even more conspiratorially ENCODED PLANS TO BRING ABOUT FUTURE EVENTS (the downfall of the Roman Church and worldly governments, for the establishment of a "kingdom of christ") ...
They weren't meant to be "crazy prophesies".
I HAVE to go.
Peace
-dbts
If I opened it now would you not understand?
But the bolded part here is a bigass assumption, isn't it? I agree that revelations is probably about stuff happening at the time or wishful thinking, but there's a big jump from that to concluding that someone is trying to spread some "hidden" knowledge of sorts. And even if it does truthfully convey something about it's time and rulers then (which i do not necessarily concede), it is a further bigass assumption that the same thing is still going on by essentially the same people (or their descendants). In short, it's relevance today is highly questionable to say the least, if you discount the religious prophetic aspect.
So that's two pretty huge assumptions there that I can't see is necessary or very likely at all. Again, the devil is the only possible vehicle to keep this together through the centuries, which puts religious faith as a prerequisite. And many of the CTers are quite openly religiously motivated. Which all in all earns them a couple of barrels of mistrust from me. That means they cut some corners that shouldn't (or really can't) be cut, and makes it far too easy to draw events out over long timelines. (When history has shown that just about nothing about power lasts very long. Even openly and legitimately displayed from a position of undeniably great power.) These timelines need the eternal god, and the equally eternal devil as the mirror image.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
DESCHUTES PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEM
BEND PUBLIC LIBRARY
601 NW WALL ST
BEND, OR 97701
05-15-10
LISA ANN ROUTHIER
The following requested items are available for pickup.
AUTHOR:
ILL-THE TEACHINGS OF THE MASTERS
CALL NO:
BARCODE: 35394009776184
LOCATION: Bend Adult Mats.
PICKUP AT: Bend BY: 05-24-10
Just picked the book up and started taking pics of it. After trying to shoot different angles, different lighting, I finally was able to get very few decent shots. I was getting pissed, I mean, how hard is it to take a pic of a freaking book, but I had the hardest time. Bizarre. I am the 3rd person to check it out since 1954, the other date was from 1970. It had the original flap that held the card where you actually stamp it with the date.The library it was borrowed from was the Univerity at Walla Walla. I have pics if anyone wants to see them. Can't wait to read this book!
4:316
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org