Industries are still trying to clear their overhead and make a profit and the fact that less people are buying does not make prices go down.
That's actually exactly how it works. The Consumer Price Index went down in 2009 as unemployment went up. Lower wages and income translate to weaker demand, which depresses prices. That's what you have backwards.
The tickets are also not increasing astronomically.
But they are. A Ten Club ticket pair was $83.00 in 2003. It should be $97.00 in 2010 accounting for inflation, but it's more than $170.00. That is an astronomical increase.
Interestingly enough, I just bought a ticket today for Thom Yorke's band, Atoms For Peace, at the Santa Barbara Bowl. It had a $46.00 base price, and a total price of $66.95 including Ticketmaster fees.
When Pearl Jam played the Santa Barbara Bowl in 2006-- four years ago-- Ten Club tickets were $84.50 each without even factoring in Ticketmaster.
I guarantee you that Thom Yorke is not losing money on this show. The bottom line is that Pearl Jam is making a choice to charge what it is charging. That's its prerogative, but the choice is not being forced on them by economic conditions. They would make money if the tickets were $48.50 each (in keeping with inflation). They will make more at $85.00 each.
someone made an excellent point about how much money is spent on a night out.
for the price of a pearl jam ticket i'd be able to pay for a taxi into the city, one or two drinks, and a taxi home again.
Oh. That's horseshit.
no it's not. it costs 40 bucks to get to the city (i live 15 minutes away) in a taxi here and drinks cost 10 bucks each. thats a hundred bucks. you want my receipts?
A few points I feel inclined to add as I have read through the ticket price topics on this board:
o If I was a member of PJ, I would be pretty pissed right now since all of my financial advisors are on here spilling the beans on how loaded I am. Why is it assumed that everyone in the band is completely set for life? I know all of my investments and retirement accounts were nearly cut in half last year....are the members that smart that they were stuffing their mattresses? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE unless you are a member of the band, are an accountant/financial planner for the band, or have an ATM receipt that was left after a member of the band made a transaction which shows the current account balance to be in the billions - do not make this assumption.
o For all the economists who keep pulling the “consumer price index” or “government inflation statistics” please just stop – that’s silly. Those are indices for the entire economy and are not a constant for everything. Have your healthcare costs gone up at that rate? How about gas/diesel prices? I wish!!! Not all goods and services inflate at a constant rate and to make statements on the assumption that they do is misguided. Perhaps the entertainment industry is outpacing “the trend” just like healthcare and oil? If someone could pull those numbers strictly for the entertainment sector and compare, now that would be compelling “evidence” for either side of this debate....
o Has anyone considered how many members are in a band? Just for arguments sake? People on here want to compare prices to a Green Day show (3 main members) and Phish (4 members I believe?) when at the end of the day for PJ everything is getting split 5 ways (or 6 if Boom gets voted a full share – I hope you do Boom). So if Green Day’s charging $45 that is $15/member, Phish at $50 would be $12.50/member, PJ at approximately $65 would be $13/member. Just saying.....
o A point that has been made by several people but which seems to be passed over, is market value. If PJ offered all their tickets for $10, do you really think you would be able to purchase them for $10? Or, since the actual value of the tickets is equal to or greater than the $60 to $75 (as proven by their ability to sell out or come close to selling out most of the places they play) they are charging, do you think you would have been able to actually get that ticket for $10? Sure you would have had a chance, but I’m betting you would have had to go through a broker/scalper and still had to pay $60-$75? Better yet, because you wanted seats up close would you have had to pay $150, $300, $500 to get up close or front row?
maybe they really do need the money. wouldnt be the first time a band blew all their cash.
...
And things change as you get older. Maybe, being fathers and shit makes them feel more responsible for their kid's futures, than keeping ticket prices low for their fans. I know my priorities have changed since I was in my 20s... cocaine in no longer on the top of my list of 'Things to Buy'.
I'm guessing that you people with kids are thinking about their college tuition... and not going to a bunch of shows. (And I hope you aren't planning on using Pearl Jam posters as investments for your kid's education.)
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The increase happend after 2003/ Riot Act. I think they felt "mortal" after Riot Act not selling as expected or "cornered" thus realising that they maybe should start trying to cash in more on tickets, having more merch, sell more records, make better deals, putting songs on Tv-shows, trying to make people being "aware" of them again etc.
Just a thought/theory.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The increase happend after 2003/ Riot Act. I think they felt "mortal" after Riot Act not selling as expected or "cornered" thus realising that they maybe should start trying to cash in more on tickets, having more merch, sell more records, make better deals, putting songs on Tv-shows, trying to make people being "aware" of them again etc.
Just a thought/theory.
they are just bizarre to me. its like they shoot themselves in the foot. they want to be bigger, but release weird singles that dont work at all. they sign a big Target deal, yet barely tour in support of Backspacer at all outside of the northeast (and price many casual fans out). they make a videos, then kinda vanish. they aren't very 'synergistic" for a business.
not that there is anything wrong with that, it just seems like bad business sense to me. but then we al assume they have one opinion on things, but im sure Ed's idea for the direction of the band contradicts others.
o Has anyone considered how many members are in a band? Just for arguments sake? People on here want to compare prices to a Green Day show (3 main members) and Phish (4 members I believe?) when at the end of the day for PJ everything is getting split 5 ways (or 6 if Boom gets voted a full share – I hope you do Boom). So if Green Day’s charging $45 that is $15/member, Phish at $50 would be $12.50/member, PJ at approximately $65 would be $13/member. Just saying.....
!
heh maybe they should make some cuts. "sorry Stone, i know you formed the band, but times are tough, and we dont really need a rythm guitarist right now. Ed can handle it. but its been a pleasure working with you. oh and could you tell Boom he can take some time off on your way out? thaaaanks"
heh maybe they should make some cuts. "sorry Stone, i know you formed the band, but times are tough, and we dont really need a rythm guitarist right now. but its been a pleasure working with you. oh and could you tell Boom he can take some time off on your way out?"
Maybe it''s Stone and Boom who wanted the bump - remember that Eddie gets a bigger cut out of the record sales. In 2003 maybe Stone felt that, that decision was sort of stupid cuz he can't buy as many Hip Hop records as he used to - so talked Boom into joining his quest for higher ticketprices
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
A few points I feel inclined to add as I have read through the ticket price topics on this board:
o If I was a member of PJ, I would be pretty pissed right now since all of my financial advisors are on here spilling the beans on how loaded I am. Why is it assumed that everyone in the band is completely set for life? I know all of my investments and retirement accounts were nearly cut in half last year....are the members that smart that they were stuffing their mattresses? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE unless you are a member of the band, are an accountant/financial planner for the band, or have an ATM receipt that was left after a member of the band made a transaction which shows the current account balance to be in the billions - do not make this assumption.
Their income from royalties alone are enough to give them financial security. If they were hurting for money, they wouldn't be playing 20 shows a year and releasing records once every three or four years. I mean, give me a break. The S&P 500 was up more than 26 percent last year.
o For all the economists who keep pulling the “consumer price index” or “government inflation statistics” please just stop – that’s silly. Those are indices for the entire economy and are not a constant for everything. Have your healthcare costs gone up at that rate? How about gas/diesel prices? I wish!!! Not all goods and services inflate at a constant rate and to make statements on the assumption that they do is misguided. Perhaps the entertainment industry is outpacing “the trend” just like healthcare and oil? If someone could pull those numbers strictly for the entertainment sector and compare, now that would be compelling “evidence” for either side of this debate....
Here's one example: the average price for tickets sold on StubHub in 2009 decreased 16 percent from 2008. Is that specific-to-the-industry enough for you? The average price of a movie ticket was $6.03 in 2003, and $7.50 in 2009. No doubling there either.
o A point that has been made by several people but which seems to be passed over, is market value. If PJ offered all their tickets for $10, do you really think you would be able to purchase them for $10? Or, since the actual value of the tickets is equal to or greater than the $60 to $75 (as proven by their ability to sell out or come close to selling out most of the places they play) they are charging, do you think you would have been able to actually get that ticket for $10? Sure you would have had a chance, but I’m betting you would have had to go through a broker/scalper and still had to pay $60-$75? Better yet, because you wanted seats up close would you have had to pay $150, $300, $500 to get up close or front row?
Thanks for reading!
this is a good point - 10 dollar tickets could become 100 dollar tickets, with sleazy brokers taking most of the profit instead of the actual band. but of course, this still happens with more expensive tickets, doesn't it?
1. Why is nobody complaining about the low ticket prices in buffalo? 75$...what a deal....
2. Even at 92.50, i think its a steal. Everything in life is more expensive these days...you will probably spend more on beer the day of the show...plus its MSG...
3. For the amount of material they play on tour, they should charge more. Id say other bands i see play maybe 18-22 songs/gig (less if only one or 2 albums produced) PJ Probably averages near 30 per show. SO the cost per song ratio is way below the average entertainer.
4. When did this place turn into such a discrace...i oftern feel ebmarrased when I visit this place lately. All the stupid ass bitching and complaining...petitions to play this and that song...whats your favroite soda pop to drink while listending to bugs over and over again...seriously, what the hell...
5. there is no 5...im done.
Columbus 00 -- Toronto 00 -- Toronto 03 -- Hershey 03 -- Boston I 04 -- Boston II 04 -- Toledo 04 -- Kitchener 05 -- London 05 -- Hamilton 05 -- Ottawa 05 -- Toronto 05 -- Toronto I 06 -- Toronto II 06 -- Cleveland 06 -- Detroit 06 -- Gorge I 06 -- Gorge II 06 -- Chicago Lolla 07 -- Toronto 09 -- Buffalo 10 -- Hamilton 11 -- Toronto I 11 -- Toronto II 11 -- Buffalo 13 -- London 13 -- Toronto I 16 -- Toronto II 16 -- Ottawa 16 -- Chicago I 18 -- Chicago II 18 -- Hamilton 22 -- Toronto 22
"In a paper he wrote with Princeton graduate student Marie Connolly, he says concerts are now a much bigger source of income for major-league stars than CD sales.
"Only four of the top 35 income-earners made more money from recordings than live concerts," the paper says. "For the top 35 artists as a whole, income from touring exceeded income from record sales by a ratio of 7.5 to one in 2002."
"Professor Krueger says this tendency was spotted by David Bowie, who told the New York Times in 2002 that "music itself is going to become like running water or electricity".
Bowie has advised his fellow performers: "You'd better be prepared for doing a lot of touring, because that's really the only unique situation that's going to be left."
Interesting article! Especially this:
"Only four of the top 35 income-earners made more money from recordings than live concerts," the paper says. "For the top 35 artists as a whole, income from touring exceeded income from record sales by a ratio of 7.5 to one in 2002." ...
And I think PJ falls into this category:
These days, the biggest concert draws tend to be performers such as Bowie, the Rolling Stones and Paul McCartney - artists whose latest albums are often greeted with indifference, but who can still make money by singing their greatest hits.
It's in the band's best interest to continue, and most likely increase their touring rather than slow down like they want to. You'd think they'd know this but they seem to think that the knew albums will gain them new ground. Be a touring band, where they have their most success, and quit overpricing the tickets.
A few points I feel inclined to add as I have read through the ticket price topics on this board:
o If I was a member of PJ, I would be pretty pissed right now since all of my financial advisors are on here spilling the beans on how loaded I am. Why is it assumed that everyone in the band is completely set for life? I know all of my investments and retirement accounts were nearly cut in half last year....are the members that smart that they were stuffing their mattresses? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE unless you are a member of the band, are an accountant/financial planner for the band, or have an ATM receipt that was left after a member of the band made a transaction which shows the current account balance to be in the billions - do not make this assumption.
It's not really assuming if its common sense... just sayin..
"Only four of the top 35 income-earners made more money from recordings than live concerts," the paper says. "For the top 35 artists as a whole, income from touring exceeded income from record sales by a ratio of 7.5 to one in 2002." ...
And I think PJ falls into this category:
These days, the biggest concert draws tend to be performers such as Bowie, the Rolling Stones and Paul McCartney - artists whose latest albums are often greeted with indifference, but who can still make money by singing their greatest hits.
It's in the band's best interest to continue, and most likely increase their touring rather than slow down like they want to. You'd think they'd know this but they seem to think that the knew albums will gain them new ground. Be a touring band, where they have their most success, and quit overpricing the tickets.
...
I can't speak fo the band... just me.
But, i think if I was in a band... things would be different for me from when I was 20-30something, single... banging chicks on tour... and when I was 40something with little kids at home. I would like to think I would rather spend more time at home... with my little kids... than being constantly out on the road.
Again... I don't claim to be an expert... or even a father... or someone that people pay to see. The only thing that still sounds good is the banging chicks thing... probably because gals don't... and never have.. thrown themselves at me.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Eric Clapton @ The Wachovia Center in 2001: $74 face value per ticket.
Pearl Jam @ The Wachovia Center in 2005: $48 face value per ticket.
Pearl Jam @ The Spectrum in 2009: $74 face value per ticket.
Personally, I don't think it's all that horrible, since it took them 8 years to catch up. And, if you consider, that the Spectrum shows were the last ever shows ever there, I believe that they would have been cheaper. Plus, they were worth every penny.
Something I haven't seen anyone mention is where they play. Some venues are more than others. MSG will cost more than a small market.
For example, since I saw someone mention them, STP. Two years ago a ticket for their Borgata show was like $90 a pop, but their MMR Show this May in Camden was under $50 a ticket. Yes, it's a festival type thing, but I think most shows at the S Center are about that much.
Also, look at gas prices.
13 years ago I could fill up for $0.89 a gallon. Now it's close to $2.60. That's outrageous. And, I'm pretty sure that has a factor for concert tix going up.
Plus, I checked out where that band, http://www.mercyme.org/tour/, would be playing. Let's just say Pearl Jam could never play there since there are no like east or west coast shows. People would bitch about not being able to catch Pearl Jam if they weren't playing where they're playing.
I respect what they're doing, but it wouldn't be feasible for PJ.
Comments
That's actually exactly how it works. The Consumer Price Index went down in 2009 as unemployment went up. Lower wages and income translate to weaker demand, which depresses prices. That's what you have backwards.
But they are. A Ten Club ticket pair was $83.00 in 2003. It should be $97.00 in 2010 accounting for inflation, but it's more than $170.00. That is an astronomical increase.
Interestingly enough, I just bought a ticket today for Thom Yorke's band, Atoms For Peace, at the Santa Barbara Bowl. It had a $46.00 base price, and a total price of $66.95 including Ticketmaster fees.
When Pearl Jam played the Santa Barbara Bowl in 2006-- four years ago-- Ten Club tickets were $84.50 each without even factoring in Ticketmaster.
I guarantee you that Thom Yorke is not losing money on this show. The bottom line is that Pearl Jam is making a choice to charge what it is charging. That's its prerogative, but the choice is not being forced on them by economic conditions. They would make money if the tickets were $48.50 each (in keeping with inflation). They will make more at $85.00 each.
no it's not. it costs 40 bucks to get to the city (i live 15 minutes away) in a taxi here and drinks cost 10 bucks each. thats a hundred bucks. you want my receipts?
o If I was a member of PJ, I would be pretty pissed right now since all of my financial advisors are on here spilling the beans on how loaded I am. Why is it assumed that everyone in the band is completely set for life? I know all of my investments and retirement accounts were nearly cut in half last year....are the members that smart that they were stuffing their mattresses? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE unless you are a member of the band, are an accountant/financial planner for the band, or have an ATM receipt that was left after a member of the band made a transaction which shows the current account balance to be in the billions - do not make this assumption.
o For all the economists who keep pulling the “consumer price index” or “government inflation statistics” please just stop – that’s silly. Those are indices for the entire economy and are not a constant for everything. Have your healthcare costs gone up at that rate? How about gas/diesel prices? I wish!!! Not all goods and services inflate at a constant rate and to make statements on the assumption that they do is misguided. Perhaps the entertainment industry is outpacing “the trend” just like healthcare and oil? If someone could pull those numbers strictly for the entertainment sector and compare, now that would be compelling “evidence” for either side of this debate....
o Has anyone considered how many members are in a band? Just for arguments sake? People on here want to compare prices to a Green Day show (3 main members) and Phish (4 members I believe?) when at the end of the day for PJ everything is getting split 5 ways (or 6 if Boom gets voted a full share – I hope you do Boom). So if Green Day’s charging $45 that is $15/member, Phish at $50 would be $12.50/member, PJ at approximately $65 would be $13/member. Just saying.....
o A point that has been made by several people but which seems to be passed over, is market value. If PJ offered all their tickets for $10, do you really think you would be able to purchase them for $10? Or, since the actual value of the tickets is equal to or greater than the $60 to $75 (as proven by their ability to sell out or come close to selling out most of the places they play) they are charging, do you think you would have been able to actually get that ticket for $10? Sure you would have had a chance, but I’m betting you would have had to go through a broker/scalper and still had to pay $60-$75? Better yet, because you wanted seats up close would you have had to pay $150, $300, $500 to get up close or front row?
Thanks for reading!
And things change as you get older. Maybe, being fathers and shit makes them feel more responsible for their kid's futures, than keeping ticket prices low for their fans. I know my priorities have changed since I was in my 20s... cocaine in no longer on the top of my list of 'Things to Buy'.
I'm guessing that you people with kids are thinking about their college tuition... and not going to a bunch of shows. (And I hope you aren't planning on using Pearl Jam posters as investments for your kid's education.)
Hail, Hail!!!
Just a thought/theory.
not that there is anything wrong with that, it just seems like bad business sense to me. but then we al assume they have one opinion on things, but im sure Ed's idea for the direction of the band contradicts others.
heh maybe they should make some cuts. "sorry Stone, i know you formed the band, but times are tough, and we dont really need a rythm guitarist right now. Ed can handle it. but its been a pleasure working with you. oh and could you tell Boom he can take some time off on your way out? thaaaanks"
Maybe it''s Stone and Boom who wanted the bump - remember that Eddie gets a bigger cut out of the record sales. In 2003 maybe Stone felt that, that decision was sort of stupid cuz he can't buy as many Hip Hop records as he used to - so talked Boom into joining his quest for higher ticketprices
Their income from royalties alone are enough to give them financial security. If they were hurting for money, they wouldn't be playing 20 shows a year and releasing records once every three or four years. I mean, give me a break. The S&P 500 was up more than 26 percent last year.
Here's one example: the average price for tickets sold on StubHub in 2009 decreased 16 percent from 2008. Is that specific-to-the-industry enough for you? The average price of a movie ticket was $6.03 in 2003, and $7.50 in 2009. No doubling there either.
You're welcome!
this is a good point - 10 dollar tickets could become 100 dollar tickets, with sleazy brokers taking most of the profit instead of the actual band. but of course, this still happens with more expensive tickets, doesn't it?
2. Even at 92.50, i think its a steal. Everything in life is more expensive these days...you will probably spend more on beer the day of the show...plus its MSG...
3. For the amount of material they play on tour, they should charge more. Id say other bands i see play maybe 18-22 songs/gig (less if only one or 2 albums produced) PJ Probably averages near 30 per show. SO the cost per song ratio is way below the average entertainer.
4. When did this place turn into such a discrace...i oftern feel ebmarrased when I visit this place lately. All the stupid ass bitching and complaining...petitions to play this and that song...whats your favroite soda pop to drink while listending to bugs over and over again...seriously, what the hell...
5. there is no 5...im done.
Columbus 00 -- Toronto 00 -- Toronto 03 -- Hershey 03 -- Boston I 04 -- Boston II 04 -- Toledo 04 -- Kitchener 05 -- London 05 -- Hamilton 05 -- Ottawa 05 -- Toronto 05 -- Toronto I 06 -- Toronto II 06 -- Cleveland 06 -- Detroit 06 -- Gorge I 06 -- Gorge II 06 -- Chicago Lolla 07 -- Toronto 09 -- Buffalo 10 -- Hamilton 11 -- Toronto I 11 -- Toronto II 11 -- Buffalo 13 -- London 13 -- Toronto I 16 -- Toronto II 16 -- Ottawa 16 -- Chicago I 18 -- Chicago II 18 -- Hamilton 22 -- Toronto 22
Ed Ved - Toronto I 08--Toronto II 08
Interesting article! Especially this: And I think PJ falls into this category: It's in the band's best interest to continue, and most likely increase their touring rather than slow down like they want to. You'd think they'd know this but they seem to think that the knew albums will gain them new ground. Be a touring band, where they have their most success, and quit overpricing the tickets.
It's not really assuming if its common sense... just sayin..
I can't speak fo the band... just me.
But, i think if I was in a band... things would be different for me from when I was 20-30something, single... banging chicks on tour... and when I was 40something with little kids at home. I would like to think I would rather spend more time at home... with my little kids... than being constantly out on the road.
Again... I don't claim to be an expert... or even a father... or someone that people pay to see. The only thing that still sounds good is the banging chicks thing... probably because gals don't... and never have.. thrown themselves at me.
Hail, Hail!!!
ticket price: $12.00
4-2-92
7-29-92
5-4-95 Hovercraft / Cleveland
8-26-98
4-25-03
5-20-06
8-21-08 E.V. Chicago
10-31-09 Philadelphia
5-09-10 Cleveland
5-10-10 Buffalo
6-26-11 E.V. Detroit
10-11-13 Pittsburgh
10-12-13 Buffalo
10-29-13 Charlottesville
4-18-16 Hampton
8-22-16 Chicago
Eric Clapton @ The Wachovia Center in 2001: $74 face value per ticket.
Pearl Jam @ The Wachovia Center in 2005: $48 face value per ticket.
Pearl Jam @ The Spectrum in 2009: $74 face value per ticket.
Personally, I don't think it's all that horrible, since it took them 8 years to catch up. And, if you consider, that the Spectrum shows were the last ever shows ever there, I believe that they would have been cheaper. Plus, they were worth every penny.
Something I haven't seen anyone mention is where they play. Some venues are more than others. MSG will cost more than a small market.
For example, since I saw someone mention them, STP. Two years ago a ticket for their Borgata show was like $90 a pop, but their MMR Show this May in Camden was under $50 a ticket. Yes, it's a festival type thing, but I think most shows at the S Center are about that much.
Also, look at gas prices.
13 years ago I could fill up for $0.89 a gallon. Now it's close to $2.60. That's outrageous. And, I'm pretty sure that has a factor for concert tix going up.
Plus, I checked out where that band, http://www.mercyme.org/tour/, would be playing. Let's just say Pearl Jam could never play there since there are no like east or west coast shows. People would bitch about not being able to catch Pearl Jam if they weren't playing where they're playing.
I respect what they're doing, but it wouldn't be feasible for PJ.