Dispatches - Children of Gaza

Pepe SilviaPepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
edited April 2010 in A Moving Train
a truly heartbreaking episode :( when i tried to watch from 'watch now' it wouldn't let me but a link to the episode is here


http://www.channel4.com/programmes/disp ... /episode-1

In December 2008, the Israeli Defence Force unleashed a campaign to destroy the ability of Hamas to launch rockets and mortars into Israel. Around 300 children were among the 1,300 Palestinians that were killed.

After the ceasefire, BAFTA-winning filmmaker Jezza Neumann arrived in Gaza to follow the lives of three children over a year.

Surrounded by the remnants of the demolished Gaza Strip and increasingly isolated by the blockade that prevents anyone from rebuilding their homes and their lives, Children of Gaza is a shocking, touching and uniquely intimate reflection on extraordinary courage in the face of great adversity.
don't compete; coexist

what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • timctimc Posts: 664
    pretty sad all around, most people only talk about Israel, it's like there are no children in Palestine! When the US shows video on Gaza etc.. there are only stories of Israeli children getting hurt! thanks for dropping off truth bomb.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    In December 2008, the Israeli Defence Force unleashed a campaign to destroy the ability of Hamas to launch rockets and mortars into Israel.

    Except that wasn't why they attacked Gaza.
  • you know i've seen first hand a lot of really awful things the last few years, but when Ibraheem's dad sat at his grave, talking about how the IDF killed his son while he held him in his arms, how tormented he is every day because he could not protect him, or look at him while he was taking his last breaths in life because the soldiers were right above his head, screaming at him, that just broke me. he was so petrified they were going to kill him too. the rest of his family were screaming and yelling, frightened, confused and scared. imagine being a father, knowing your own precious son was dying, and knowing you didn't even hug him or comfort him for those last seconds. how the hell do you live with that.

    and what was Ibraheem's crime again?' that's right. he was a child living in gaza.

    i didn't watch any more after that. i already know what is happening over there. i feel so helpless watching the Palestinians suffer so badly, knowing that it's happening right now and nothing is changing no matter how many videos i watch, how many people i talk too, how much i voice my concerns to our Government and our Representatives. not enough people care, and it cuts me to pieces knowing that i can not do a god damn thing.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Does anyone else find it at least a bit encouraging that Israel did NOT turn Gaza into a deathtrap this last time around, despite a rocket attack that killed someone? Its not enough, but refraining from massive attacks into Gaza is a good first step.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Does anyone else find it at least a bit encouraging that Israel did NOT turn Gaza into a deathtrap this last time around, despite a rocket attack that killed someone? Its not enough, but refraining from massive attacks into Gaza is a good first step.
    I don't think you should be praising Israel for doing something its supposed to be doing all along.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    :cry::cry:

    really - what hope is there for humanity? ... when people can sleep knowing they've murdered children?
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Commy wrote:
    Does anyone else find it at least a bit encouraging that Israel did NOT turn Gaza into a deathtrap this last time around, despite a rocket attack that killed someone? Its not enough, but refraining from massive attacks into Gaza is a good first step.
    I don't think you should be praising Israel for doing something its supposed to be doing all along.

    I am not praising Israel, I am saying that its a good thing that they did not enact a massive military response.
    [rude comments removed] being happy that there weren't more deaths. :roll:
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Here, maybe this will appease you:
    [rude comments removed]

    Happy?
    Seriously ... I cannot win with folks on here, because even when I make it painfully obvious that I think Israeli actions are wrong, I get jumped on for pointing out that I am happy that there was no excessive military response this time. THIS is why some people conclude that you guys are more interested in bashing than in actual solutions to the problem. Why not think before posting, Commy?
  • Here, maybe this will appease you:
    Israel sucks. What a rogue state full of terrorists and babykillers.
    take out the word "full" and i completely agree with you.
    Happy?
    of course i'm not happy. there are still 1.5 million ordinary Palestinians who are victims of Israels illegal and brutal occupation.
    Seriously ... I cannot win with folks on here, because even when I make it painfully obvious that I think Israeli actions are wrong, I get jumped on for pointing out that I am happy that there was no excessive military response this time. THIS is why some people conclude that you guys are more interested in bashing than in actual solutions to the problem. Why not think before posting, Commy?

    you are so wrong. you can jump to conclusions all you like, but i don't think there is anyone here more interested in bashing Israel than seeing a halt to the occupation. i agree with Commy's comment, Israel should not be praised for doing something they should be doing all along.

    the IDF murdered a 16 year old boy a few days ago when he was participating in a protest at the Gaza border. they shot and killed him. 16 years old. the IDF's excuse was some of the protestors were throwing stones. so excuse me for not agreeing with your comment that they have backed off on the 'excessive military force'. killing someone just because they can is repulsive enough, but killing because apparently people were throwing stones is despicable.

    and i've seen people time and time again offer solutions to the problem, sadly not everyone agrees.

    did you watch the video by the way?
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    You can agree with Commy all you like, the fact remains that I was not praising anyone. Not sure why that's complicated, such that everyone has to just agree without a deeper look at what I was pointing out. At no point was I cheerleading Israel. If I was doing that, I would have said something to the effect of "Great, Israel must be serious about peace" or "Sweet, great move by Israel, they must really care". I did say that I found Israel NOT deciding to enter Gaza full-force to kill a bunch of people encouraging, and I stand by that. Yes, it makes me glad that 800 more civilians did not die this time, and a little more hopeful that peace can be attained. Surely this is not a debatable point. If I am so wrong, prove me wrong. My perception is that I cannot even "cheerlead" the avoidance of deaths without someone pointing out that I am praising Israel, which I'd sort of like to have happen if and ONLY if I actually say something that consists of bona fide praise for said state.

    And yes, I watched the video.
  • You can agree with Commy all you like, the fact remains that I was not praising anyone. Not sure why that's complicated, such that everyone has to just agree without a deeper look at what I was pointing out. At no point was I cheerleading Israel. If I was doing that, I would have said something to the effect of "Great, Israel must be serious about peace" or "Sweet, great move by Israel, they must really care". I did say that I found Israel NOT deciding to enter Gaza full-force to kill a bunch of people encouraging, and I stand by that. Yes, it makes me glad that 800 more civilians did not die this time, and a little more hopeful that peace can be attained. Surely this is not a debatable point. If I am so wrong, prove me wrong. My perception is that I cannot even "cheerlead" the avoidance of deaths without someone pointing out that I am praising Israel, which I'd sort of like to have happen if and ONLY if I actually say something that consists of bona fide praise for said state.

    And yes, I watched the video.
    as much as he would probably like to, even netanyahu is not stupid enough to enter Gaza with full force again at this point in time.

    instead, as i already mentioned with the example of the 16 year old being murdered a few days ago, they will keep killing, just in smaller numbers for now.

    Israel has some of the most sophisticated weaponry in the world at its disposal and uses it without mercy. even at kids throwing stones (if they were even doing that). so sickening reborn.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Well, I am not going to knock you for being sickened by any child's death, Triumphant. Nor was my intent to pretend that the killings have stopped. If something happens on a big scale, though, that saves lives, I am going to highlight it.

    When you say Netenyahu is not stupid enough to enter Gaza full force, what do you mean? I actually agree with you, if you are referring to the political acceptability of such a decision (I am not trying to pretend that Netenyahu is a humanitarian). Maybe the tides are changing, ever so slightly?
  • When you say Netenyahu is not stupid enough to enter Gaza full force, what do you mean? I actually agree with you, if you are referring to the political acceptability of such a decision. Maybe the tides are changing, ever so slightly?
    i was referring to the political acceptability of a decision to enter Gaza. as for feeling the tides changing, i posted those same thoughts the other day. i worry even more if that's possible about the Palestinians. i worry that they will feel even more of Israel's wrath because of it.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    polaris_x wrote:
    :cry::cry:

    really - what hope is there for humanity? ... when people can sleep knowing they've murdered children?

    I ask myself that EVERYDAY......oh and also, where's god?????? Must be to busy for us ey, or maybe just gave up on us........... :(
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    This is in no way meant to diminish in any way anyone's suffering, but I feel that since we are using this thread to mourn the victims of this conflict that it would be appropriate to mention something I saw last night. I'm in Jerusalem now, and I was watching the Israeli evening news. They had a long segment where they interviewed the parents of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped by Hamas and is being held captive in Gaza. He has now been a hostage for four years. He was kidnapped when he was 20, and he is now 24. He is literally being held no more than an hours drive from his parents home, and yet they haven't seen or spoken to him in four years. While the rest of the country was celebrating Passover, and sitting down to the Seder with their families, Gilad's parents were at home, alone, mourning for their son. At the seder I attended we included two prayers in addition to the traditional Seder text. The first was a prayer for peace. The second was a prayer for Gilad's safe and speedy return to his family.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    This is in no way to diminish the pain of the parents/family, but you cannot compare the plight of this soldier to the plight of the children of Gaza. I actually think it's a bit offensive.... The children are innocent. One can argue that they may find the soldier an innocent pawn but those are risks soldiers take in times of war.
  • yosi wrote:
    This is in no way meant to diminish in any way anyone's suffering, but I feel that since we are using this thread to mourn the victims of this conflict that it would be appropriate to mention something I saw last night. I'm in Jerusalem now, and I was watching the Israeli evening news. They had a long segment where they interviewed the parents of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped by Hamas and is being held captive in Gaza. He has now been a hostage for four years. He was kidnapped when he was 20, and he is now 24. He is literally being held no more than an hours drive from his parents home, and yet they haven't seen or spoken to him in four years. While the rest of the country was celebrating Passover, and sitting down to the Seder with their families, Gilad's parents were at home, alone, mourning for their son. At the seder I attended we included two prayers in addition to the traditional Seder text. The first was a prayer for peace. The second was a prayer for Gilad's safe and speedy return to his family.
    i feel for his family and friends and hope that he is returned safely.

    just like i hope the hundreds of Palestinian children who are being held in Israeli Prisons illegally, while they are subjected to serious violations of their rights, are released and returned home safely.

    Jail ordeal of hundreds of Palestinian children arrested for throwing stones. Rights groups express concern at the rising number of juveniles as young as 12 who are held behind bars and 'treated like terrorists'

    With more than 300 Palestinian children being held in Israeli prisons, human rights groups and Palestinian officials are increasingly concerned about the actions of the Israeli military.

    The Israeli group B'Tselem said that security forces had "severely violated" the rights of a number of children, aged between 12 and 15, who had been taken into custody in recent months.

    The family of one 13-year-old boy from Hebron who was arrested on 27 February by a military patrol and detained for eight days have brought a legal case against the authorities. The teenager, Al-Hasan Muhtaseb, described how he had been interrogated without a lawyer late into the night, forced to confess to throwing stones, made to sign a confession in Hebrew that he couldn't read, jailed with adults and brought before a military court. He was only released on bail eight days later, after considerable legal effort by several human rights groups. As he had signed a confession, he still faces a possible indictment for throwing stones – a charge that usually brings several months in jail but carries a maximum penalty of 20 years' jail.

    Although most international attention focuses on diplomatic sparring in the Middle East, it is cases such as this teenager's arrest that are the reality for Palestinians living under Israeli military occupation. The surprise about the teenager's experience is not that it is exceptional, but that it is a common occurrence.

    As of the end of February, 343 Palestinian children were being held in Israeli prisons, according to Defence for Children International (DCI), which took up the Muhtaseb case. Israel routinely prosecutes Palestinian children as young as 12 and the Israeli legal system treats Palestinians as adults when they turn 16, but Israelis become adults only at 18. Ill-treatment and torture of Palestinian children are "widespread, systematic and institutionalised", DCI said in a report last year.

    Al-Hasan Muhtaseb was arrested early in the afternoon as he and his 10-year-old brother Amir were walking home through Hebron, in the occupied West Bank, after visiting their aunt.

    "Two soldiers came to us and told us: 'Come over here.' We went to them," said Al-Hasan, a slight boy, neatly dressed, who barely looks his 13 years. "They took my brother and I don't know where they took him. I was sent inside the station and I never saw him after that."

    They were detained separately. Amir was released later that night, deeply traumatised. "He was in a very, very bad psychological state," said his father, Fadel Muhtaseb, 45. "He had wet himself. He was terrified." The boy said he had been held with his eyes covered by a hat in a room where there was also a dog, which he could hear panting.

    Al-Hasan was interrogated at an Israeli military post in Kiryat Arba, a Jewish settlement in Hebron. "I was asked: 'Did you throw stones? Did you hurt the soldiers or hit their vehicles? How close were you to the soldiers? Why were you throwing stones?'," he said. Eventually he had admitted throwing stones, although in an interview last week Al-Hasan said it was untrue: on that day he had not thrown stones, although earlier in the week he had.

    He had been made to sign a statement in Hebrew, a language he doesn't speak or read. He was blindfolded and taken to Ofer military prison, where he arrived at 3.30am. "There were no other children," he said. "I was afraid." Three days after his arrest he appeared at a military court. But his father, who works as a tiler, could not afford the 2,000 shekels (£350) bail. "My father told them he couldn't pay this much money," said Al-Hasan. His father, who sat next to him through the interview, burst into tears.

    Last Sunday the boy was freed under a bail arrangement in which his father faces arrest if his son does not appear at the next summons. "Even if he were throwing stones, he is only 13," said Fadel. "They treated him like a terrorist. They claim they are democratic and human, but they are not."

    The Israeli Defence Force defended the arrest, saying Israeli troops were acting to prevent violence. Both boys are now incontinent and Amir has been hospitalised. "He wakes up in the middle of the night screaming," said Fadel. "We try to comfort him, but he's getting worse and worse."

    The Palestinian Authority highlighted the case of the two Muhtaseb brothers, saying Israel was breaching international law and has recently seemed to take a stronger stance against the more routine challenges of the occupation, including the effect of the West Bank barrier. Israeli security forces have warned of a broader crackdown if the protests escalate.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma ... ted-israel
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    I am not praising Israel, I am saying that its a good thing that they did not enact a massive military response.
    Excuse the fucking shit out of me for being happy that there weren't more deaths. :roll:

    dude ... i think you need to stop being so defensive ... i don't think anyone was jumping all over you ... no one called you any names or said anything derogatory ... it was just a simple statement ... you can't always look at every post as some continuation of conversations from before ...
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    This is in no way meant to diminish in any way anyone's suffering, but I feel that since we are using this thread to mourn the victims of this conflict that it would be appropriate to mention something I saw last night. I'm in Jerusalem now, and I was watching the Israeli evening news. They had a long segment where they interviewed the parents of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped by Hamas and is being held captive in Gaza. He has now been a hostage for four years. He was kidnapped when he was 20, and he is now 24. He is literally being held no more than an hours drive from his parents home, and yet they haven't seen or spoken to him in four years. While the rest of the country was celebrating Passover, and sitting down to the Seder with their families, Gilad's parents were at home, alone, mourning for their son. At the seder I attended we included two prayers in addition to the traditional Seder text. The first was a prayer for peace. The second was a prayer for Gilad's safe and speedy return to his family.

    Did you also offer a prayer for any of the 10,000 kidnapped Palestinians who currently reside in Israels jails?

    http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/10000- ... estinians/
    10,000 Kidnapped Palestinians

    08.23.2006 | Ha'aretz
    By Amira Hass


    On Jerusalem’s Jabotinsky Street, opposite the President’s Residence, a medium-sized plaque is fixed on a locked gate, enclosing a broad building and a lovely garden: “This building was the location of the British Mandate Government’s High Military Court, which held the trials of the Hebrew resistance fighters from the Haganah, Etzel and Lehi.” The sign bears the emblems of the Jerusalem municipality and the three resistance organizations. It further notes: “The resistance fighters refused to acknowledge the authority of the court to judge them, and asked to be recognized as prisoners of war.”

    The speaker of the Palestinian Authority’s parliament, who was arrested two weeks ago by the Israel Defense Forces, also refused to acknowledge the authority of the Military Court to judge him. Obviously the two latest detainees, whose arrest was deemed by Israel to be the appropriate solution to its shortcomings in releasing kidnapped soldier Gilad Shalit, will make the same declaration. Nasser A-Shaer, the Palestinian education minister and deputy prime minister, and Mahmoud Ramahi, chief whip of the Palestinian Legislative Council, were arrested on Saturday and Sunday. Incidentally, the Palestinians have lately ceased using the verb “arrested” in regards to the arrests of Palestinians by Israeli soldiers. Instead they use the verb “abducted.”

    These three detainees/abducted join about 10,000 other Palestinian prisoners and detainees. As with the prisoners of the Hebrew resistance, who saw themselves as POWs regardless of their actions (killing British soldiers or Arab civilians), some Palestinians request that their prisoners be declared POWs. Others prefer the definition of political prisoners. Let’s let the definitions rest. In any case, from the offense to the jailing, Israel, as an occupying force, plays around with the definitions as it sees fit.

    On Sunday, at 4:30 A.M., IDF soldiers shot and killed a worker, Jalal Uda, 26, and injured three other Palestinian civilians. This happened not far from the Howara checkpoint, south of Nablus. Palestinian newspapers referred to it as the “crime scene.” The young men rode a taxi in a road bypassing the checkpoints. For the last several weeks the army has again forbid young men under age 32 from leaving Nablus. But people have to make a living, and thousands are looking for hidden routes. An offense punishable by death, so it seems. The soldiers acted as prosecutor, judge and executioner. According to the rules of occupation, when soldiers kill Palestinian civilians, they and those who sent them are never criminals, suspects, accused or convicts. The brigadier general who limits the age of those who exit the Nablus compound, by virtue of his belonging to the “Defense Army” can also not be considered a criminal, suspect or convict.

    When a Palestinian kills an Israeli - soldier or civilian - his name, picture and details of his indictment will be published. He will automatically be condemned to life in jail, and his prime minister or the leader of his organization will be considered responsible and hence a target for arrest or assassination. The soldiers who kill Palestinian civilians are sheltering under the wide apron of the occupation army. Their names will not be known in public, and their prime minister and commanders will not be deemed accountable.

    The Palestinian detainees are led to a military court: The same military establishment that occupies and destroys and suppresses the civilian population is the one that determines that to resist occupation - even by popular demonstrations and waving flags, not only by killing and bearing arms - is a crime. It is the one to prosecute, and it is the one to judge. Its judges are loyal to the interest of defending the occupier and the settler.

    Allegedly every Palestinian is tried, convicted and jailed as a private person who committed a criminal offense. But a sharp discrimination in the conditions of imprisonment proves that the Palestinian security prisoner is punished not as an individual, but as a representative of a group, as part of its overall suppression. Contrary to international law, the majority of Palestinian prisoners and detainees are not held in the occupied territory, but rather inside Israel. Contrary to popular myth, Israel does not respect the right to regular family visits.

    The army does its best to disrupt the visitation schedule, using various security and technical excuses. Only relations of the first degree (parents, siblings and children) are allowed to visit the prisoners, but hundreds of them have not had the privilege of any visits for several years. The right to make daily use of a telephone is given to the most dangerous of criminal prisoners, and is denied from Palestinian security prisoners, among them citizens and residents of Israel. This is done via a weak and unconvincing excuse of a security establishment that has advanced and effective surveillance devices. The path of sentence reduction and clemency is open to the Jew (especially when he is a settler) and is almost hermetically shut to the Palestinian.

    It is no wonder that the Palestinians support every action - such as kidnapping soldiers - that tries to break the rules of this discrimination game. Every Palestinian prisoner’s personal history is an expression of the freedom Israel allows itself in the implanting of an extreme subculture of double standard, discriminating blood from blood, human being from human being, nation from nation.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    http://www.imemc.org/index.php?obj_id=53&story_id=58249

    Soldiers Kidnap a Palestinian Woman, Child, Near Jerusalem

    Sunday March 21, 2010 10:05author by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC & Agencies

    Eyewitnesses reported that the soldiers kidnapped Ibtisam Mustafa Abu Dayya, 42, a mother of six children, after she quarreled with the soldiers.

    Troops violently attacked the woman before cuffing and blindfolding her.

    Later on, the army kidnapped 14-year-old child during clashes that took place in the camp.

    The army invaded the camp and clashed with dozens of residents. Soldiers fired rounds of live ammunition, rubber-coated bullets and gas bombs.

    The army recently kidnapped more than 250 residents during clashes that took place after Israeli settlers inaugurated a synagogue near the Al Aqsa Mosque. Among the kidnapped residents were 30 children below the age of 14, and a number of reporters.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    edited March 2010
    http://www.imemc.org/index.php?obj_id=53&story_id=57756

    Soldiers Kidnap 15 Palestinians In Less Than Two Days

    Tuesday January 26, 2010 01:25author by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC News


    Local sources reported that on Monday, at dawn, soldiers kidnapped five Palestinians in the southern West Bank city of Hebron.

    Two of them were kidnapped near the Ibrahimi Mosque in the center of Hebron. They were violently attacked and beaten by the soldiers who stopped them at a roadblock in the Old City.

    One of them was identified as Anis Majid Al Rajabi, 20. He suffered several bruises and concussions after being attacked by the soldiers, and was moved to the Ezion military camp, north of Hebron.

    Soldiers also kidnapped Dia’ Al Ja’bary, 22, after stopping him at a roadblock in the city and moved him to Ezion camp.

    Three more Palestinians, two of them identified as Kamel Al Hammoury and Bilal Al Sharabty, were kidnapped in Bab Al Zawiya area in the center of Hebron.

    Furthermore, soldiers invaded the town of Tarqoumia, west of Hebron, and handed a resident a military order for questioning.

    The soldiers broke into his home and ransacked it, before handing him the order.

    Soldiers also kidnapped two residents in Arraba village, near the northern West Bank city of Jenin. The two were arrested after the army broke into and ransacked their homes also.

    They were identified as Mansour Iz Ed-Deen and Mohammad Shqeir. Their families were forced out of their homes for several hours while the army searched the property.

    In addition soldiers fired concussion grenades and gas bombs to terrorize the residents, local sources reported.

    In the central West bank city of Ramallah, soldiers kidnapped nine Palestinians described by the army as persons named on their “wanted list”. They were all moved to interrogation centers, an Israeli army spokesperson said.

    On Sunday, Israeli soldiers arrested nine laborers from the Al Khader village, near Bethlehem, after violently attacking them.

    The workers were initially detained in front of Al Zayyim roadblock, in East Jerusalem. They were reported to be on their way to Jerusalem, attempting to find work to support their families.

    The army said the workers did not carry the permits that allow Palestinian residents of the West Bank to enter Israel. The soldiers struck them with their rifles and batons, in addition to kicking and punching them.

    They suffered concussions and fractures to several parts of their bodies.

    http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2007/10/0 ... ince-1967/
    700,000 Palestinians were kidnapped since 1967
    2007.10.09


    The Ministry of Detainees and Freed Detaineesaffirmed that the Israeli army had abducted around 60,000 residents; around ten thousand and five hundred of them are still imprisoned in Israeli jails, in addition to 543 who are detained before the outbreak of the current Intifada.

    Some of the residents were abducted from hospitals and emergency vehicles. Even Ministers and lawmakers were also abducted.

    In addition to the Israeli military ships had abducted hundreds of the Palestinian fishermen in the Gaza Strip.

    The report also noted that that Israeli army had abducted 700 Palestinian females during the Intifada, 110 of them are still imprisoned, and also abducted more than 6500 children, hundreds of them are still in the Israeli jails.

    He said that since the Israeli soldier Gilad Shaleet was captured in the Gaza Strip in June 2006 until September 2007, the Israeli army had kidnapped more than nine thousand residents with the average of thirty residents per day.

    In the report Farawneh compared the abductions that were carried out during the first Intifada (1987-1994) the Israeli army had abducted around 200,000 of residents at the average of 30 thousand per year.


    http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11120.shtml
    Amir, ten years old, abducted by Israeli soldiers from his bed
    Nora Barrows-Friedman writing from Hebron, occupied West Bank, Live from Palestine, 8 March 2010

    '..Hours after our interview, at 2am, Israeli soldiers would break into the house, snatch Amir from his bed, threaten his parents with death by gunfire if they tried to protect him, and take him downstairs under the stairwell. They would beat him so badly that he would bleed internally into his abdomen, necessitating overnight hospitalization. In complete shock and distress, Amir would not open his mouth to speak for another day and a half.

    "Two of the soldiers stopped us and handcuffed us," Amir said. "They brought us to two separate jeeps. They took me to the settlement and put me in a corner. I still had handcuffs on. They put a dog next to me. I said that I wanted to go home. They said no, and told me I would stay here forever. They refused to let me use the bathroom. They wouldn't let me call my mother. They blindfolded me and I stayed there like that until my father was able to come and get me late at night."

    Amir's detention inside the settlement lasted nearly ten hours. "The only thing that I thought about was how afraid I was, especially with the dog beside me. I wanted to run away and go back to my house," he said.

    http://www.paltelegraph.com/palestine/w ... rom-hebron
    Israel kidnaps 9 Palestinians from Hebron

    Monday, 22 March 2010 11:36 Added by PT Editor maysaa jarour


    ki4Hebron, March 22, 2010 (Pal Telegraph) - Israeli occupation forces today kidnapped nine citizens from Dura village, southwest of Hebron in the occupied West Bank.

    Security sources said to SAFA news agency that Israeli occupation forces detained the two brothers Amjad,32, and Shadi Al-Shahateet ,24 , after the raiding the town.

    Also they kidnapped seven citizens, after raiding their homes in Khrsa village, south Dura.

    The seven detainees are: Ali Kamel Abu Mliha Amr and his brother Ahmed, Hossam Mahmoud Abu Sharar, Louay Azmi Obaid, Thaer Abd Al-Aziz Obeid, Ayman Hassan Hantash, and Mohamed Ahmed Atabish.

    Sources from Kharsa village council said that about 15 of the occupation army vehicles raided the town and detained seven citizens and then transferred them to an unknown place.


    http://palsolidarity.org/2008/07/3248
    Palestinian farmer kidnapped, bound and abused by settlers
    July 5, 2008


    http://www.uruknet.info/?p=64352
    IOF kidnap more than 250 Palestinians during current Aqsa Intifada
    Palestinian Information Center
    March 20, 2010


    GAZA, (PIC)-- The Palestinian ministry of prisoners’ affairs stated Saturday that the Israeli occupation forces (IOF) kidnapped more than 250 Palestinians including 30 children under age 14 during the current Intifada (uprising) which broke out in defense of the Aqsa Mosque.

    The ministry’s information office said that most of detainees were from the areas of Issawiya, Wadi Joz and Sawwanah and few of them were released on bail while many others would be detained for several days.

    The office added that all the Palestinians who were taken prisoners during the recent clashes were maltreated, humiliated and severely beaten during detention...'


    http://ramallahonline.com/component/con ... f-february
    Israeli Army kidnapped 292 Palestinians from the W.B during the month of February
    Monday, 02 March 2009
    Ghassan Bannoura - RamallahOnline


    The Palestinian Political detainees Society issued a report on Monday stating that the Israeli military have kidnapped 292 Palestinians during the month of February.

    Of those 292 kidnapped, 35 were sick and 59 were children, in addition to four women, the report said.

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=103891
    Israeli troops 'kidnap' Palestinians for organs
    Tue, 18 Aug 2009


    A leading Swedish newspaper claims Israeli soldiers kidnap Palestinians to steal their organs and sell them in the black market.

    In an article titled They plunder the organs of our sons, the daily Aftonbladet said Israeli soldiers abduct young Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip and return their bodies to their families after removing their organs.

    "Our sons are used as involuntary organ donors," relatives of Khalid a Palestinian man from Nablus told Donald Bostrom who authored the report.

    He also reported the accounts of other Palestinians whose relatives are fallen the victim of the organ smuggling operation.

    According to the report, all of the victims were killed and their bodies were autopsied.

    The report also cited another similar incident in 1992, in which a young Palestinian activist was captured by Israeli soldiers in the Nablus area. The man was shot in the chest, both legs and the stomach and then transferred to "an unknown distention."

    The man's body was found five nights later. "When Bilal was put into his grave, his chest was revealed and suddenly it became clear to the present what abuse he had been put through. Bilal was far from the only one who was buried cut-up from his stomach to his chin and the speculations about the reason why had already started," read the article.

    The article also links the issue to a recently discovered crime syndicate in New Jersey, which was involved in organ smuggling. Several American rabbis were arrested in connection to the case.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    Every fucken time I read one of byrnzies or pepes stats I have to triple my Xanax intake..... :( :( :(
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    polaris_x wrote:
    dude ... i think you need to stop being so defensive ... i don't think anyone was jumping all over you ... no one called you any names or said anything derogatory ... it was just a simple statement ... you can't always look at every post as some continuation of conversations from before ...

    Maybe so, but it gets frustrating after a while. And I was not thinking about previous threads at all, I was replying to a direct comment about my post. Anyhow, I'm chill.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    yosi wrote:
    This is in no way meant to diminish in any way anyone's suffering, but I feel that since we are using this thread to mourn the victims of this conflict that it would be appropriate to mention something I saw last night. I'm in Jerusalem now, and I was watching the Israeli evening news. They had a long segment where they interviewed the parents of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped by Hamas and is being held captive in Gaza. He has now been a hostage for four years. He was kidnapped when he was 20, and he is now 24. He is literally being held no more than an hours drive from his parents home, and yet they haven't seen or spoken to him in four years. While the rest of the country was celebrating Passover, and sitting down to the Seder with their families, Gilad's parents were at home, alone, mourning for their son. At the seder I attended we included two prayers in addition to the traditional Seder text. The first was a prayer for peace. The second was a prayer for Gilad's safe and speedy return to his family.

    +1. This man should be returned to his family.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    yosi wrote:
    This is in no way meant to diminish in any way anyone's suffering, but I feel that since we are using this thread to mourn the victims of this conflict that it would be appropriate to mention something I saw last night. I'm in Jerusalem now, and I was watching the Israeli evening news. They had a long segment where they interviewed the parents of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped by Hamas and is being held captive in Gaza. He has now been a hostage for four years. He was kidnapped when he was 20, and he is now 24. He is literally being held no more than an hours drive from his parents home, and yet they haven't seen or spoken to him in four years. While the rest of the country was celebrating Passover, and sitting down to the Seder with their families, Gilad's parents were at home, alone, mourning for their son. At the seder I attended we included two prayers in addition to the traditional Seder text. The first was a prayer for peace. The second was a prayer for Gilad's safe and speedy return to his family.

    +1. This man should be returned to his family.

    So should the 10,000 + Palestinians being held in Israeli jails without charge.


    http://www.dci-pal.org/english/camp/fre ... ategoryId=
    Palestinians held without charge or trial: the number is on the rise
    February 06, 2008


    [Ramallah] – The Palestinian Authority Director of Statistics reported Wednesday that 18,000 Palestinians were held in Israeli prisons without charge or trial during the Al Aqsa Intifada, beginning in September 2000.

    Abdel Nasser Awni Farawana said today that women, children and the elderly are also being held under this draconian practice of Administrative Detention. Thousands of men, intellectuals and elected officials from the Palestinian Legislative Council and Palestinian government have also been held without charge or trial.

    Administrative Detention is a way for the Israeli government to hold Palestinians in its prisons without cause, and the time period can be renewed at the discretion of Israeli forces.

    The numbers of administrative detainees was raised in 2007 as the Israeli government increased its arrest policy. The raids are nightly, and tens are taken during each sweep. Despite two prisoner release agreements, the number arrested between the time of negotiations and the actual release increased.

    Farawana reports that in 2007 the Israelis issued over 3,000 decisions for Administrative Detention, the highest rate since the year 1990.

    There are numerous cases reported of Palestinians being held without charge or trial for up to five years or more, including children.
  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    redrock wrote:
    This is in no way to diminish the pain of the parents/family, but you cannot compare the plight of this soldier to the plight of the children of Gaza. I actually think it's a bit offensive.... The children are innocent. One can argue that they may find the soldier an innocent pawn but those are risks soldiers take in times of war.

    He wasn't at war. He was patrolling the Gaza border and was kidnapped from inside Israeli territory. Yes, soldiers are at risk. That doesn't mean it is legitimate to cross into another country and kidnap soldiers to hold hostage indefinitely. And why presume that Gilad wasn't an innocent. Would you say that the American soldiers who were killed by that doctor who went on a shooting spree at their base in the U.S. weren't innocent victims? This is not so different. Gilad wasn't involved in an offensive military operation. He was simply watching the border when he and his comrades were ambushed, he was kidnapped, and his comrades were killed.

    Also, I wasn't making a comparison. I was simply saying that there are many victims in this conflict, and I wanted to speak out for this particular one.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    Byrnzie wrote:
    http://www.imemc.org/index.php?obj_id=53&story_id=58249

    Soldiers Kidnap a Palestinian Woman, Child, Near Jerusalem

    Sunday March 21, 2010 10:05author by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC & Agencies

    Eyewitnesses reported that the soldiers kidnapped Ibtisam Mustafa Abu Dayya, 42, a mother of six children, after she quarreled with the soldiers.

    Troops violently attacked the woman before cuffing and blindfolding her.

    Later on, the army kidnapped 14-year-old child during clashes that took place in the camp.

    The army invaded the camp and clashed with dozens of residents. Soldiers fired rounds of live ammunition, rubber-coated bullets and gas bombs.

    The army recently kidnapped more than 250 residents during clashes that took place after Israeli settlers inaugurated a synagogue near the Al Aqsa Mosque. Among the kidnapped residents were 30 children below the age of 14, and a number of reporters.

    Here's why I can't take this seriously. The synagogue this is refering to is the "Hurva" (meaning destroyed) synagogue in the Jewish quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem. The synagogue was among the grandest in the city until it was utterly destroyed by the Palestinians/Jordanians when they conquered the Old City in 1948. Israel, not settlers, recently rebuilt the synagogue and rededicated it. It is only near the Al Aqsa Mosque if you consider anything inside the Old City as being near the Al Aqsa Mosque. In reality, and here I'm guessing purely based on the hundreds of times I've visited the Old City, this synagogue is at least half a mile from the Al Aqsa Mosque.


    Now, clearly, the report about people being arrested could be true, but I have a hard time believing the veracity of this report given how utterly untruthful the rest of this report is.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • yosiyosi NYC Posts: 3,069
    And yes, Byrnzie, I agree that anyone being held in Israeli jails who are not guilty of any crimes should be released. But I have to ask you, why do you feel that you have to respond so angrily to what I wrote? This isn't a competition. It isn't as if only Israelis can be victims, or only Palestinians can be victims. I find it sad that rather than being open to mourning for the suffering on all sides you feel the need to respond in this manner, as if the recognition of the suffering of an Israeli family has to be buried and expunged by a recitation of all the Palestinians who suffer in this conflict. Are you so enraged and cold hearted that you can't empathize with this kid's parents, who have gone four years without seeing their son, knowing that he is literally being held just down the road?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane

  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    polaris_x wrote:
    dude ... i think you need to stop being so defensive ... i don't think anyone was jumping all over you ... no one called you any names or said anything derogatory ... it was just a simple statement ... you can't always look at every post as some continuation of conversations from before ...

    Maybe so, but it gets frustrating after a while. And I was not thinking about previous threads at all, I was replying to a direct comment about my post. Anyhow, I'm chill.

    i just don't think commy was trying to jump on you is all ...
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Here, maybe this will appease you:
    Israel sucks. What a rogue state full of terrorists and babykillers.

    Happy?
    Seriously ... I cannot win with folks on here, because even when I make it painfully obvious that I think Israeli actions are wrong, I get jumped on for pointing out that I am happy that there was no excessive military response this time. THIS is why some people conclude that you guys are more interested in bashing than in actual solutions to the problem. Why not think before posting, Commy?



    When you weigh in on the situation in Gaza, from what i've seen, its always to paint Israel in a positive light. In a sense what you post is pure propaganda, as there is reality and there is your point of view. That is why you are a target. End support for Israel, I could respect that man.


    Israel is a racist zionist militant State, conducting a siege against an impoverished group of people, brutalizing and terrorizing every day. that is reality.
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