to me this is about seeing things from someone else perspective.
obviously we cant just dream what other people dream - that would be dumb
but - I think the tantalizing element in the lyric is that if EVERYONE saw things from each others perspective - not to be them or do what they do (because if everyone followed someone else's dream there would be no dreams left to follow - they would cancel each other out) - but if everyone stopped for a moment before acting and said to themselves, "I wonder WHY that person thinks that way"
there would be no rivals - just people working with a more mutual understanding of each other (with different goals)
Is it realistic? is it a solution to all of our problems?
NO! It's poetry! and damn good at that
The phrase "Unthought Known" isn't just some shit that Ed made up that sounds cool. It's an actual psychological term. Google it ... the song will become clearer.
The unthought known are things that are embedded in all of us, that we just "know" without thinking about them. It's sort of like the Jungian concept of the "collective unconscious" ... deep down, men dream about the same shit. You ever have that dream where you're falling? Or loosing teeth? Yeah ... so has everybody else. Why is that? We're all connected ... even in ways that aren't readily apparent.
That's what the song is about, basically. Dreaming the dreams of other men. The Unthought Known.
It's not about "conforming" ... it's about realizing for all our differences, we're all connected ... even to people we've never met. Somewhere, tonight in Bangladesh, there's a man who will have the same dream I'm having. It's actually a very cool concept.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
does it? seems like they have never shied away from conflict (though not physical). Ed was never one to seek common ground before. but then again, it seems his philosophy has changed greatly, so maybe he feels that way now. he is much more civil nowadays.
Walk the bridges before you burn them down ...
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
The phrase "Unthought Known" isn't just some shit that Ed made up that sounds cool. It's an actual psychological term. Google it ... the song will become clearer.
Hey, I googled it! But I got something completely different:
"The dream is central to our evolutionary inheritance ... More than ever we must dream well if we are to confront forces threatening to annihilate us ... [and] if we are to further the wonderful, dangerous, and always visionary human adventure." -- Robert Jay Lifton, The Future of Immortality
In a way, googling is like dreaming the dreams of other men. Reading just a few sentences gives instant insight. I feel so in-the-know, or in the unknown you know.
Nice.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
You ever have that dream where you're falling? Or loosing teeth? Yeah ... so has everybody else. Why is that? We're all connected .
That's what I've ALWAYS said: "It is only in losing our collective teeth, that we will find our connection to all others....no matter HOW many degrees of Kevin Bacon between us."
The unthought known is what is in our thoughts before we learn language. It's there in our brains but we can't even describe it because we "got" those thoughts before we were able to categorize or theorize or compartmentalize those thoughts with language.
The unthought known is what is in our thoughts before we learn language. It's there in our brains but we can't even describe it because we "got" those thoughts before we were able to categorize or theorize or compartmentalize those thoughts with language.
Very interesting.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
"Dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival"
Now, Pearl Jam has gotten a lot of shit lately, with the whole Target promotion, making radio friendly music, and honestly I'm fine with all that. I think they're doing it to better themselves, and good for them. This lyric though at the end of "Unthought Known" though, really bothers me. It's one thing to change the way you go about marketing, business, or music style, but to me this lyric seems almost like they're changing they're outlooks. This isn't the Pearl Jam who made music who encouraged me to stand out and be myself.
I'm sorry, I just needed to vent, I love the rest of the song though. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
"Dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival"
If we lived in a world without money, where the only thing you owned was your spirit and everything else was borrowed and shared - think about it, even the art you create is not owned by you - it is from you and it is a gift to all living things.
If Pearl Jam lived in that world, they would give it all away.
If you or I just happen to write a song that someone else wrote - because due to probability, that can happen without being aware of the other - we don't need to fight about who owns the art, it just means we discovered the same thing.
You ever have that dream where you're falling? Or loosing teeth? Yeah ... so has everybody else. Why is that? We're all connected .
That's what I've ALWAYS said: "It is only in losing our collective teeth, that we will find our connection to all others....no matter HOW many degrees of Kevin Bacon between us."
to me this is about seeing things from someone else perspective.
obviously we cant just dream what other people dream - that would be dumb
but - I think the tantalizing element in the lyric is that if EVERYONE saw things from each others perspective - not to be them or do what they do (because if everyone followed someone else's dream there would be no dreams left to follow - they would cancel each other out) - but if everyone stopped for a moment before acting and said to themselves, "I wonder WHY that person thinks that way"
there would be no rivals - just people working with a more mutual understanding of each other (with different goals)
Is it realistic? is it a solution to all of our problems?
NO! It's poetry! and damn good at that
I could be off base here...but I'm pretty sure the lyric is meant to be interpreted as a warning, as in, if you dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival, so don't do it.
In that context, Eddie and the boys still stand for everything they always have. Don't follow the trend, stand out.
"Dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival"
Now, Pearl Jam has gotten a lot of shit lately, with the whole Target promotion, making radio friendly music, and honestly I'm fine with all that. I think they're doing it to better themselves, and good for them. This lyric though at the end of "Unthought Known" though, really bothers me. It's one thing to change the way you go about marketing, business, or music style, but to me this lyric seems almost like they're changing they're outlooks. This isn't the Pearl Jam who made music who encouraged me to stand out and be myself.
I'm sorry, I just needed to vent, I love the rest of the song though. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Knowing the way these guys write.. I would think that would have just a tad of sarcasm.. I take it as that's the cheap way out.. I don't think they're saying do this I think they're saying this is the common norm... yeah looking at it how you put it is a bit odd.. but oh well, like someone said earlier it's open to interpretation.
I could be off base here...but I'm pretty sure the lyric is meant to be interpreted as a warning, as in, if you dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival, so don't do it.
In that context, Eddie and the boys still stand for everything they always have. Don't follow the trend, stand out.
Right on, I always say that it's when you go against the grain that you have troubles. Go with the flow and there is usually smooth sailing. Those lyrics make perfect sense and I agree 100% with your interpretation.
this is one of MY FAVORITE lines off Backspacer and I've interpreted it to mean something like putting yourself in someone else's shoes, see things how others see them, YOU WILL BE NO ONE'S RIVAL!!!
If we could all just try to see things in a different way than we see them...it's an attempt to resolve issues. Instead of pushing our own agenda, take it back a minute, lookt at it from a different point of view and maybe things can be worked out.
I know it's all to one's own interpretation, but that's why I SCREAM this line at the top of my lungs while driving...
I just havent figured out how it fits in with being blanketd in gems and rhinestones...I LOVE THAT freaking line TOO!
Post edited by NoOne'sRival on
"Dream the dream others then...you will be no one's RIVAL!"
"Doo do do do doo do doo, Doo do do do doo do doo..."
this is one of MY FAVORITE lines off Backspacer and I've interpreted it to mean something like putting yourself in someone else's shoes, see things how others see them, YOU WILL BE NO ONE'S RIVAL!!!
If we could all just try to see things in a different way than we see them...it's an attempt to resolve issues. Instead of pushing our own agenda, take it back a minute, lookt at it from a different point of view and maybe things can be worked out.
I know it's all to one's own interpretation, but that's why I SCREAM this line at the top of my lungs while driving...
I just havent figured out how it fits in with being blanketd in gems and rhinestones...but I LOVE THAT freaking line TOO!
Aren't the gems & rhinestones representative of the stars, planets, galaxies, nebulae etc?
this is one of MY FAVORITE lines off Backspacer and I've interpreted it to mean something like putting yourself in someone else's shoes, see things how others see them, YOU WILL BE NO ONE'S RIVAL!!!
If we could all just try to see things in a different way than we see them...it's an attempt to resolve issues. Instead of pushing our own agenda, take it back a minute, lookt at it from a different point of view and maybe things can be worked out.
I know it's all to one's own interpretation, but that's why I SCREAM this line at the top of my lungs while driving...
I just havent figured out how it fits in with being blanketd in gems and rhinestones...but I LOVE THAT freaking line TOO!
Aren't the gems & rhinestones representative of the stars, planets, galaxies, nebulae etc?
exactly.
and we should value the shine from our skies and galaxies much more than the shine from our rings and necklaces.
The whole world will be different soon... - EV
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
this is one of MY FAVORITE lines off Backspacer and I've interpreted it to mean something like putting yourself in someone else's shoes, see things how others see them, YOU WILL BE NO ONE'S RIVAL!!!
If we could all just try to see things in a different way than we see them...it's an attempt to resolve issues. Instead of pushing our own agenda, take it back a minute, lookt at it from a different point of view and maybe things can be worked out.
I know it's all to one's own interpretation, but that's why I SCREAM this line at the top of my lungs while driving...
I just havent figured out how it fits in with being blanketd in gems and rhinestones...but I LOVE THAT freaking line TOO!
Aren't the gems & rhinestones representative of the stars, planets, galaxies, nebulae etc?
exactly.
and we should value the shine from our skies and galaxies much more than the shine from our rings and necklaces.
That's funny. Those shiny things on our rings and necklaces ARE from our skies & galaxies. When a star is exploding, its inner core is usually iron, but if its hotter or denser or I forget whatter, then that's where other rare metals are formed such as gold, etc. "IRONic" isn't it AHAhahahahhhhahahahaa
It's so amazing how this song means very different things to different people. It's almost as if the song begs for the listener to apply it to his/her own life, because thats what everyone IS doing with it.
"unthought known" is an actual psychological term given to those "thoughts" you have before you develop language, and although those thoughts exist, we can't actually tap into them fully because now our thoughts are language-based, but then they weren't--so we may be able to "feel" them, but can't properly "describe" them, at least not with words/language.
"All the thoughts you never see" (the unthought known is your thoughts but you can’t “see” them as you can’t decipher them)
Ironically, I never heard the term "making hay" before this song (the term make your money most while the money is to be made), but now I hear the term used alot. But when I first heard, "Breathing hard & making hay", it only struck me as life/death cycle. Breath--die (& decompose—you are literally making hay) (like "Cropduster"). and then the shout that common-places the “hay making” "YEAH, this is LIVIN'"
What is the reason for life? Why, love of course. (Ed told us that a lot.) [sarcasm font] (I guess the bible did too) [end sarcasm font] Because you do only live once, the direction to be heeded “Look for love & evidence that you’re worth keeping” to me implies that one should spend their life with LOVE. It makes your life worth it. “worth keeping”. A total waste of the life that you only live once is when you are “swallowed whole in negatives”. That IS sad & sickening—leads to bad things—bad feelings & sickness.
And while you’re living with love, you’re giving it, and filling the air up with it. “Black with starlight”. (hmmm. With all that starlight, why is space so black anyway?… If light travels the great distance to reach our eyes, doesn’t it also travel in all directions…then why so black? Just a hmmm.)
If the line “feel the sky blanket you” is a metaphor for when you die, the line seems to be reminding us that it’s NOT the EARTH that will blanket us, but rather the SKY!
This life death cycle also plays out in the "nothing left, nothing there" part AND with the path cut to the moon part AND also in the "see the waves on distant shores, awaiting your arrival" part.
I DON'T KNOW WHY I grabbed a book "Teach only Love" off the library shelf about a month ago. Two kids hanging off me & I just grabbed it. In it is described how we are all connected to each other whether we like it or not. And it used the metaphor (on pg 28 actually) that we are all a collective ocean & each individual is a wave, and we can't be a wave without the ocean. I immediately thought of the "waves" on the distant shore. The ones that are waiting for us.
Coupled with my previous interpretations of the life/death cycle, when the "waves" of the song were interpreted into "people" (gone before us, but on distant shores waiting our arrival....us doing the moon walk), I was completely floored. Of course, when we enter into THAT state of consciousness, it probably does become apparent that all people are this "ocean" & thus rivalry is to also be at odds with our own selves. And when we see this big picture, this becomes apparent.
We are all humans, we all seek happiness, we have similar goals—to better ourselves, to provide for & protect our families—we all have the same dreams. (Hard to see this big picture a lot, especially if we are “sinking” “deep” within ourselves)
Most striking about this beautiful song is the last part. It goes hand in hand with one of my most favorite lyrics of all time (from the Flaming Lips)..."Do you realize we're floating in space". YES PEOPLE we are dangling in space.....La Dee Da...just hanging there. All by ourselves. LA DEE DA!
So obviously YES we are in the distant time, a very distant place. What we take will only be known by us & will die with us. The only mark we will ever LEAVE is the one that we give. ("So whatcha.......")
AND YET, we are all born knowing all this. But we don’t know it.
This an interesting thread, and I have to admit that getting to dissect the songs in a reasonable manner, all of us accepting the fact that we are all different and see things differently,.. personally I think we are ALL personifying that very lyric right here right now as we type :-) GO Pearl Jam!!! bring the masses into a single concert ( oh and we don't mean in one accord we mean an actual concert.. thanks)
That's funny. Those shiny things on our rings and necklaces ARE from our skies & galaxies. When a star is exploding, its inner core is usually iron, but if its hotter or denser or I forget whatter, then that's where other rare metals are formed such as gold, etc. "IRONic" isn't it AHAhahahahhhhahahahaa
That WAS funny DANGDANG...and I think we watched a star explode in the night skies Sunday night...it was incredible!
and....this IS an AWESOME song!
"Dream the dream others then...you will be no one's RIVAL!"
"Doo do do do doo do doo, Doo do do do doo do doo..."
That's funny. Those shiny things on our rings and necklaces ARE from our skies & galaxies. When a star is exploding, its inner core is usually iron, but if its hotter or denser or I forget whatter, then that's where other rare metals are formed such as gold, etc. "IRONic" isn't it AHAhahahahhhhahahahaa
That WAS funny DANGDANG...and I think we watched a star explode in the night skies Sunday night...it was incredible!
and....this IS an AWESOME song!
You saw a star explode? Was it an announced explosion or did you just happen to be looking at the right place at the right time? What did it look like?
sitting out by the fire last Sunday night, we were watching the enormous number of satellites blazing thru the atmosphere, saw a couple of shotting stars then the three of us left were following one satellite and saw a brilliant light in the sky grow brighter for a hair of a split second then disappear...it was wild... then it was like "you guys did see that, right?" but haven't heard anything and I'm sure it happens all the time..was very wild AND it happened at the end of the canoe trip where I blasted Ed's voice down the Delaware, causing eagles to rise from their nests...watching eagles soar and stars explode, all the while PJ drumming through my ears, with my family & friends all around...who could ask for more?
"Dream the dream others then...you will be no one's RIVAL!"
"Doo do do do doo do doo, Doo do do do doo do doo..."
sitting out by the fire last Sunday night, we were watching the enormous number of satellites blazing thru the atmosphere, saw a couple of shotting stars then the three of us left were following one satellite and saw a brilliant light in the sky grow brighter for a hair of a split second then disappear...it was wild... then it was like "you guys did see that, right?" but haven't heard anything and I'm sure it happens all the time..was very wild AND it happened at the end of the canoe trip where I blasted Ed's voice down the Delaware, causing eagles to rise from their nests...watching eagles soar and stars explode, all the while PJ drumming through my ears, with my family & friends all around...who could ask for more?
From your description it sounds like it may have been a shooting star (actually a meteor) that probably entered the earth's atmostphere then burned up. I've seen a few of those--sometimes they glow bright color--I remember seeing a green one when I was a kid.
Do you live near Philly--or as I suspect , along the Delaware away from city lights. & a nice black sky?!
Sounds like a great time. Canoes & dark skies (with action) & PJ & scattering eagles & good friends/family. Definitely!
I can see why people may think Ed was being sarcastic in his words and really means to "go against the grain", but the whole of Backspacer, not just this song, is more "positive". The band still fights hard for what they believe, but seem to be in a "better place". They've got families, seem to be involved in good relationships, the democrats have the White House etc. I really believe on this song, he is suggesting the best course of action may be to walk in "someone else's shoes", really understand where they are coming from, and then address differences. The point is without all the loud negative arguing, you may find deep down we all want the same things and just differ on how to get there.
Boston II 94 Boston II 06 Mansfield I 08 Mansfield II 08 Seattle I 09 Seattle II 09
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
if u dream the dream of others and then see there is no difference between you, me and other people, regardless of everything we do to be different (like clothes, religion and basicly everything we do)
there is no way to be anyones rival as all are equal.
Comments
obviously we cant just dream what other people dream - that would be dumb
but - I think the tantalizing element in the lyric is that if EVERYONE saw things from each others perspective - not to be them or do what they do (because if everyone followed someone else's dream there would be no dreams left to follow - they would cancel each other out) - but if everyone stopped for a moment before acting and said to themselves, "I wonder WHY that person thinks that way"
there would be no rivals - just people working with a more mutual understanding of each other (with different goals)
Is it realistic? is it a solution to all of our problems?
NO! It's poetry! and damn good at that
The unthought known are things that are embedded in all of us, that we just "know" without thinking about them. It's sort of like the Jungian concept of the "collective unconscious" ... deep down, men dream about the same shit. You ever have that dream where you're falling? Or loosing teeth? Yeah ... so has everybody else. Why is that? We're all connected ... even in ways that aren't readily apparent.
That's what the song is about, basically. Dreaming the dreams of other men. The Unthought Known.
It's not about "conforming" ... it's about realizing for all our differences, we're all connected ... even to people we've never met. Somewhere, tonight in Bangladesh, there's a man who will have the same dream I'm having. It's actually a very cool concept.
for the least they could possibly do
Walk the bridges before you burn them down ...
for the least they could possibly do
Nice.
for the least they could possibly do
That's what I've ALWAYS said: "It is only in losing our collective teeth, that we will find our connection to all others....no matter HOW many degrees of Kevin Bacon between us."
YES! (If we were all poets)
HEY! I'm a poet and I don't even know that I am one.
and once you do there is no more competition.
Very interesting.
for the least they could possibly do
If we lived in a world without money, where the only thing you owned was your spirit and everything else was borrowed and shared - think about it, even the art you create is not owned by you - it is from you and it is a gift to all living things.
If Pearl Jam lived in that world, they would give it all away.
If you or I just happen to write a song that someone else wrote - because due to probability, that can happen without being aware of the other - we don't need to fight about who owns the art, it just means we discovered the same thing.
This is what I get from it.
+ 1
+1 definitely
Knowing the way these guys write.. I would think that would have just a tad of sarcasm.. I take it as that's the cheap way out.. I don't think they're saying do this I think they're saying this is the common norm... yeah looking at it how you put it is a bit odd.. but oh well, like someone said earlier it's open to interpretation.
Right on, I always say that it's when you go against the grain that you have troubles. Go with the flow and there is usually smooth sailing. Those lyrics make perfect sense and I agree 100% with your interpretation.
fade away...
I am at peace with my lust.....for Eddie.
If we could all just try to see things in a different way than we see them...it's an attempt to resolve issues. Instead of pushing our own agenda, take it back a minute, lookt at it from a different point of view and maybe things can be worked out.
I know it's all to one's own interpretation, but that's why I SCREAM this line at the top of my lungs while driving...
I just havent figured out how it fits in with being blanketd in gems and rhinestones...I LOVE THAT freaking line TOO!
"Doo do do do doo do doo, Doo do do do doo do doo..."
Aren't the gems & rhinestones representative of the stars, planets, galaxies, nebulae etc?
exactly.
and we should value the shine from our skies and galaxies much more than the shine from our rings and necklaces.
RED ROCKS 6-19-95
AUGUSTA 9-26-96
MANSFIELD 9-15-98
BOSTON 9-29-04
BOSTON 5-25-06
MANSFIELD 6-30-08
EV SOLO BOSTON 8-01-08
BOSTON 5-17-10
EV SOLO BOSTON 6-16-11
PJ20 9-3-11
PJ20 9-4-11
WRIGLEY 7-19-13
WORCESTER 10-15-13
WORCESTER 10-16-13
HARTFORD 10-25-13
That's funny. Those shiny things on our rings and necklaces ARE from our skies & galaxies. When a star is exploding, its inner core is usually iron, but if its hotter or denser or I forget whatter, then that's where other rare metals are formed such as gold, etc. "IRONic" isn't it AHAhahahahhhhahahahaa
"unthought known" is an actual psychological term given to those "thoughts" you have before you develop language, and although those thoughts exist, we can't actually tap into them fully because now our thoughts are language-based, but then they weren't--so we may be able to "feel" them, but can't properly "describe" them, at least not with words/language.
"All the thoughts you never see" (the unthought known is your thoughts but you can’t “see” them as you can’t decipher them)
Ironically, I never heard the term "making hay" before this song (the term make your money most while the money is to be made), but now I hear the term used alot. But when I first heard, "Breathing hard & making hay", it only struck me as life/death cycle. Breath--die (& decompose—you are literally making hay) (like "Cropduster"). and then the shout that common-places the “hay making” "YEAH, this is LIVIN'"
What is the reason for life? Why, love of course. (Ed told us that a lot.) [sarcasm font] (I guess the bible did too) [end sarcasm font] Because you do only live once, the direction to be heeded “Look for love & evidence that you’re worth keeping” to me implies that one should spend their life with LOVE. It makes your life worth it. “worth keeping”. A total waste of the life that you only live once is when you are “swallowed whole in negatives”. That IS sad & sickening—leads to bad things—bad feelings & sickness.
And while you’re living with love, you’re giving it, and filling the air up with it. “Black with starlight”. (hmmm. With all that starlight, why is space so black anyway?… If light travels the great distance to reach our eyes, doesn’t it also travel in all directions…then why so black? Just a hmmm.)
If the line “feel the sky blanket you” is a metaphor for when you die, the line seems to be reminding us that it’s NOT the EARTH that will blanket us, but rather the SKY!
This life death cycle also plays out in the "nothing left, nothing there" part AND with the path cut to the moon part AND also in the "see the waves on distant shores, awaiting your arrival" part.
I DON'T KNOW WHY I grabbed a book "Teach only Love" off the library shelf about a month ago. Two kids hanging off me & I just grabbed it. In it is described how we are all connected to each other whether we like it or not. And it used the metaphor (on pg 28 actually) that we are all a collective ocean & each individual is a wave, and we can't be a wave without the ocean. I immediately thought of the "waves" on the distant shore. The ones that are waiting for us.
Coupled with my previous interpretations of the life/death cycle, when the "waves" of the song were interpreted into "people" (gone before us, but on distant shores waiting our arrival....us doing the moon walk), I was completely floored. Of course, when we enter into THAT state of consciousness, it probably does become apparent that all people are this "ocean" & thus rivalry is to also be at odds with our own selves. And when we see this big picture, this becomes apparent.
We are all humans, we all seek happiness, we have similar goals—to better ourselves, to provide for & protect our families—we all have the same dreams. (Hard to see this big picture a lot, especially if we are “sinking” “deep” within ourselves)
Most striking about this beautiful song is the last part. It goes hand in hand with one of my most favorite lyrics of all time (from the Flaming Lips)..."Do you realize we're floating in space". YES PEOPLE we are dangling in space.....La Dee Da...just hanging there. All by ourselves. LA DEE DA!
So obviously YES we are in the distant time, a very distant place. What we take will only be known by us & will die with us. The only mark we will ever LEAVE is the one that we give. ("So whatcha.......")
AND YET, we are all born knowing all this. But we don’t know it.
That WAS funny DANGDANG...and I think we watched a star explode in the night skies Sunday night...it was incredible!
and....this IS an AWESOME song!
"Doo do do do doo do doo, Doo do do do doo do doo..."
You saw a star explode? Was it an announced explosion or did you just happen to be looking at the right place at the right time? What did it look like?
"Doo do do do doo do doo, Doo do do do doo do doo..."
From your description it sounds like it may have been a shooting star (actually a meteor) that probably entered the earth's atmostphere then burned up. I've seen a few of those--sometimes they glow bright color--I remember seeing a green one when I was a kid.
Do you live near Philly--or as I suspect , along the Delaware away from city lights. & a nice black sky?!
Sounds like a great time. Canoes & dark skies (with action) & PJ & scattering eagles & good friends/family. Definitely!
Hartford 10 Boston 10 Wrigley 13 Worcester I 13 Worcester II 13 Hartford 13
NYC I 16 NYC II 16 Fenway I 16 Fenway II 16 Fenway 1 18 Fenway II 18
E.V. Boston II 08 E.V. Albany II 09 E.V. Providence 11, E.V. Boston 11
Troubled Souls Unite
there is no way to be anyones rival as all are equal.