"Dream the dreams of other men..."

TheVan218

"Dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival"

Now, Pearl Jam has gotten a lot of shit lately, with the whole Target promotion, making radio friendly music, and honestly I'm fine with all that. I think they're doing it to better themselves, and good for them. This lyric though at the end of "Unthought Known" though, really bothers me. It's one thing to change the way you go about marketing, business, or music style, but to me this lyric seems almost like they're changing they're outlooks. This isn't the Pearl Jam who made music who encouraged me to stand out and be myself.

I'm sorry, I just needed to vent, I love the rest of the song though. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Tonykin

I love the song, but I hear you... Those lyrics a few albums back would be:
"Dream the dreams of other men, you will be an asshole"

StickmanJam

I could be off base here...but I'm pretty sure the lyric is meant to be interpreted as a warning, as in, if you dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival, so don't do it.

In that context, Eddie and the boys still stand for everything they always have. Don't follow the trend, stand out.

BB126827

i think that is what it means.....NOT to dream the dreams of others

Digital Twilight

BB126827 wrote:

i think that is what it means.....NOT to dream the dreams of others

StickmanJam wrote:

I could be off base here...but I'm pretty sure the lyric is meant to be interpreted as a warning, as in, if you dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival, so don't do it.

In that context, Eddie and the boys still stand for everything they always have. Don't follow the trend, stand out.

Yup

These...

Ample Jar

Tonykin wrote:

I love the song, but I hear you... Those lyrics a few albums back would be:
"Dream the dreams of other men, you will be an asshole"

Oh man I hope you're interpreting it incorrectly because that's one of my favorite lines from the ablum.

Similar to what others have said, I think it's saying if you strive for things in life that everyone wants (or society makes you feel you need) than you won't ever challenge anyone...people will see you as a non-threat because you just conform.

Just my two cents

SPEEDY MCCREADY

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

Nothingbetter

I took the lyric to mean that the true essence of what men dream is peace, family, etc. That deep down we all truly want peace in the world, a family to love and protect, etc. If we stripped it down to the core, we would realize we are all more alike than we realize. If that dream is realized in all of us, we will no longer be rivals but rather brothers.

NacreRock

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

Speedy, I have always struggled with the meaning of that one to. What's your take?

JaneNY

BB126827 wrote:

i think that is what it means.....NOT to dream the dreams of others

That is how I interpreted it. That you need to be yourself and follow your own dreams. Ed's lines like that are so awesome - gives you something to ponder on in spare moments.

NacreRock

NacreRock wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

Speedy, I have always struggled with the meaning of that one to. What's your take?

too. My damn typing sucks.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

StickmanJam wrote:

I could be off base here...but I'm pretty sure the lyric is meant to be interpreted as a warning, as in, if you dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival, so don't do it.

In that context, Eddie and the boys still stand for everything they always have. Don't follow the trend, stand out.

yeah thats what it is to me. i never got why people thought it gets interpreted as something ytou should do.

"do what everyone else does, and you'll never stand out"

SPEEDY MCCREADY

NacreRock wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

Speedy, I have always struggled with the meaning of that one to. What's your take?

This is easy....

From what I hear, Ed showed up at Stone's house one afternoon...

Stone, along with 3 or 4 of his friends, were sitting around eating some Vlasic pickles....

The lyric just popped into Ed's mind....

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican.....

NacreRock

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

NacreRock wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

Speedy, I have always struggled with the meaning of that one to. What's your take?

This is easy....

From what I hear, Ed showed up at Stone's house one afternoon...

Stone, along with 3 or 4 of his friends, were sitting around eating some Vlasic pickles....

The lyric just popped into Ed's mind....

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican.....

That is so deep and thought provoking. I wonder how he knew they were virgins?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Like I said, they were Stone's friends.........

NacreRock

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

Like I said, they were Stone's friends.........

Duhh. I am a little slow....thanks for giving a rat's patootie on helping me out with this.

LikeAnOcean

I think its pretty straight forward. If you dream the dreams of other men, have the same goals and visions for life, there will be no need to fight or rival with them. Everyone will want the same thing. Thats how I understand it.

in eds tree

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

lol this is the way i will always hear that song from now on

5vs1wma

in eds tree wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

lol this is the way i will always hear that song from now on

Check this out: //www.youtube.com/watch#!v=xLd22ha_-VU

mcrok

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I think its pretty straight forward. If you dream the dreams of other men, have the same goals and visions for life, there will be no need to fight or rival with them. Everyone will want the same thing. Thats how I understand it.

This is on point. I'm not sure if anyone here has read "The Power of Now" by Eckart Tolle...but the meaning of the lyrics (for this song and others, ie present tense) can be found in this book. It is a great book and I recommend it to all. Eddie is ridiculously good at conveying these types of messages to all through his lyrics.

Peace.

morgie2

To me, "dream the dreams ......" is a type of "walk in another man's shoes". Try to see things from others points of view, find some common ground, and avoid conflict (war in other words). Falls right in line with what Pearl Jam has always stood for.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

mcrx wrote:

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I think its pretty straight forward. If you dream the dreams of other men, have the same goals and visions for life, there will be no need to fight or rival with them. Everyone will want the same thing. Thats how I understand it.

This is on point. I'm not sure if anyone here has read "The Power of Now" by Eckart Tolle...but the meaning of the lyrics (for this song and others, ie present tense) can be found in this book. It is a great book and I recommend it to all. Eddie is ridiculously good at conveying these types of messages to all through his lyrics.

Peace.

i like my interpretation better. actually i think that interpretation is pretty stupid. a world where everyone has the same goals and visions sounds like a pretty dull one for me, not to mention impossible.

morgie2 wrote:

To me, "dream the dreams ......" is a type of "walk in another man's shoes". Try to see things from others points of view, find some common ground, and avoid conflict (war in other words). Falls right in line with what Pearl Jam has always stood for.

does it? seems like they have never shied away from conflict (though not physical). Ed was never one to seek common ground before. but then again, it seems his philosophy has changed greatly, so maybe he feels that way now. he is much more civil nowadays.

dpmay

i'm glad to see this thread. that line has bothered me since listen 1. and i have thought of the interpretations mentioned here, but i dunno. the way the line is sung, it seems like an invitation and not a warning. and i don't like it. seems too much like a 'don't rock the boat' kind of sentiment, although i presume that is not what is meant.

remember when eddie mentioned some fans' interpretations of lyrics to unemployable, on that extended letterman show? like he said fans on the board thought the line was "scared of life" but it really is "scared alive"?

maybe he'll read this thread and clue us in...

anus ankle soup

Digital Twilight wrote:

BB126827 wrote:

i think that is what it means.....NOT to dream the dreams of others

StickmanJam wrote:

I could be off base here...but I'm pretty sure the lyric is meant to be interpreted as a warning, as in, if you dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's rival, so don't do it.

In that context, Eddie and the boys still stand for everything they always have. Don't follow the trend, stand out.

Yup

These...

+1 (i guess that makes 4)

supersonicyears

5vs1wma wrote:

in eds tree wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

4 or 5 virgins.....and a pelican......

lol this is the way i will always hear that song from now on

Check this out: //www.youtube.com/watch#!v=xLd22ha_-VU

Make me fries

elwayvedder

morgie2 wrote:

To me, "dream the dreams ......" is a type of "walk in another man's shoes". Try to see things from others points of view, find some common ground, and avoid conflict (war in other words). Falls right in line with what Pearl Jam has always stood for.

precisely this in my humble opinion. put yourself in the shoes of others, try to get a view point from other people and once you understand their view points and where they are coming from, you have an advantage on and there is no way they can be hostile towards you...

theoceansmademe

Tonykin wrote:

I love the song, but I hear you... Those lyrics a few albums back would be:
"Dream the dreams of other men, you will be an asshole"

You might be right, but thankfully for all of us Ed has matured.

I love this song especially these lyrics.

What is so wrong with wanting peace, avoiding the divisions that religion all to often creates, and living for the same reasons?

NacreRock

elwayvedder wrote:

morgie2 wrote:

To me, "dream the dreams ......" is a type of "walk in another man's shoes". Try to see things from others points of view, find some common ground, and avoid conflict (war in other words). Falls right in line with what Pearl Jam has always stood for.

precisely this in my humble opinion. put yourself in the shoes of others, try to get a view point from other people and once you understand their view points and where they are coming from, you have an advantage on and there is no way they can be hostile towards you...

This thread is an example of why music can be meaningful to people in different ways. Good artists, such as PJ, deliberately make lyrics a little unclear or down right vague so that you can develop your own interpretation of the meaning. They want you to think. Personally I can see two very valid interpretations. One being Elwayvedder's (and others on this thread), but I would further say that simply understanding someone's view does not mean you have to agree with it. It just allows you to see where they are coming from to avoid a physical confrontation such as war. I had never really thought of it that way until now. Personally I was originally more in line with the interpretation that he is telling us to NOT be the same as everyone else and have your own dreams, but this take is interesting.

ryanevolution

Nothingbetter wrote:

I took the lyric to mean that the true essence of what men dream is peace, family, etc. That deep down we all truly want peace in the world, a family to love and protect, etc. If we stripped it down to the core, we would realize we are all more alike than we realize. If that dream is realized in all of us, we will no longer be rivals but rather brothers.

This is what resonates with me.

morgie2

NacreRock wrote:

This thread is an example of why music can be meaningful to people in different ways. Good artists, such as PJ, deliberately make lyrics a little unclear or down right vague so that you can develop your own interpretation of the meaning. They want you to think. Personally I can see two very valid interpretations. One being Elwayvedder's (and others on this thread), but I would further say that simply understanding someone's view does not mean you have to agree with it. It just allows you to see where they are coming from to avoid a physical confrontation such as war. I had never really thought of it that way until now. Personally I was originally more in line with the interpretation that he is telling us to NOT be the same as everyone else and have your own dreams, but this take is interesting.

I think artists are clear on what THEY want to say, but everyone elses personal interpretation is what makes it meaningful in different ways. I'll use the example Ed did about "Alive". He said when he wrote it, it was a "curse" to him. Even though HE was still alive, his "new found truths" turned his world inside out. Over the years he saw the crowds embrace the song and shout it as an enthusiastic anthem. Life can slap the shit out of all of us but we will persevere. We're still ALIVE. Curse broken.

ryanevolution

I love that story. Great post.