As a gun owner, I don't have a problem with people owning guns. I do have a problem with people being able to openingly carry guns in light the the shoot first laws.
Even more disturbing are the stand your ground laws that have expanded the shoot first laws. I shouldn't have to worry about someone's state of mind when they got up in the morning and strapped on their gun. These laws give citizens more rights than police officers to kill another person.
LET'S SAY that you're behind the wheel and think someone wants to carjack your automobile and cause you bodily harm. Or suppose you get into a dispute with another shopper over a place in the supermarket's checkout line, and the shopper's aggressive behavior causes you to fear imminent peril. In both cases, you could -- and common sense suggests that you should -- retreat or back away from the scene if it can be done safely. But in Florida under a measure passed overwhelmingly by the state legislature last week, you would no longer have a duty to escape or retreat before resorting to the use of deadly force. The bill, signed into law Tuesday by Gov. Jeb Bush (R), will allow people in Florida -- without fear of criminal prosecution or civil action -- to shoot, stab or pummel to death anyone who causes them to fear for their lives outside of their homes, on the street, or in their cars or businesses. It's called the "Castle Doctrine," meaning your body, not just your home, is your castle and that you can stand your ground and meet force with force virtually anywhere if you reasonably believe injury or death might occur. A retired police officer in St. Petersburg, writing in the St. Petersburg Times, described the legislature's bill as the "citizens' right to shoot others on the street if they feel threatened" and asked, "Are they nuts?" That, we cannot answer. ...
In the last year, 15 states have enacted laws that expand the right of self-defense, allowing crime victims to use deadly force in situations that might formerly have subjected them to prosecution for murder. ...
In addition, the law does away with an earlier requirement that a person attacked in a public place must retreat if possible. Now, that same person, in the law’s words, “has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force.” The law also forbids the arrest, detention or prosecution of the people covered by the law, and it prohibits civil suits against them. ...
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
As a gun owner, I don't have a problem with people owning guns. I do have a problem with people being able to openingly carry guns in light the the shoot first laws.
Even more disturbing are the stand your ground laws that have expanded the shoot first laws. I shouldn't have to worry about someone's state of mind when they got up in the morning and strapped on their gun. These laws give citizens more rights than police officers to kill another person.
LET'S SAY that you're behind the wheel and think someone wants to carjack your automobile and cause you bodily harm. Or suppose you get into a dispute with another shopper over a place in the supermarket's checkout line, and the shopper's aggressive behavior causes you to fear imminent peril. In both cases, you could -- and common sense suggests that you should -- retreat or back away from the scene if it can be done safely. But in Florida under a measure passed overwhelmingly by the state legislature last week, you would no longer have a duty to escape or retreat before resorting to the use of deadly force. The bill, signed into law Tuesday by Gov. Jeb Bush (R), will allow people in Florida -- without fear of criminal prosecution or civil action -- to shoot, stab or pummel to death anyone who causes them to fear for their lives outside of their homes, on the street, or in their cars or businesses. It's called the "Castle Doctrine," meaning your body, not just your home, is your castle and that you can stand your ground and meet force with force virtually anywhere if you reasonably believe injury or death might occur. A retired police officer in St. Petersburg, writing in the St. Petersburg Times, described the legislature's bill as the "citizens' right to shoot others on the street if they feel threatened" and asked, "Are they nuts?" That, we cannot answer. ...
In the last year, 15 states have enacted laws that expand the right of self-defense, allowing crime victims to use deadly force in situations that might formerly have subjected them to prosecution for murder. ...
In addition, the law does away with an earlier requirement that a person attacked in a public place must retreat if possible. Now, that same person, in the law’s words, “has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force.” The law also forbids the arrest, detention or prosecution of the people covered by the law, and it prohibits civil suits against them. ...
I'm NOT disagreeing or agreeing with this florida law but wonder what promped Jeb to inact such a law ?
I'm guessing that some people got tired of being a victim and when they did fight back they were sued by
their attacker, my old gf worked for a law office and told me a little about this kind of thing happening from
time to time.
But if you follow this logic to its end, isn't one of the reasons why people get guns in this circumstance so they won't be a victim? Seems like it's playing both sides of the card.
Also, if everyone used their right to bear arms and got a gun, doesn't it pretty much completely under-mind the point for getting one?
I'm NOT disagreeing or agreeing with this florida law but wonder what promped Jeb to inact such a law ?
I'm guessing that some people got tired of being a victim and when they did fight back they were sued by
their attacker, my old gf worked for a law office and told me a little about this kind of thing happening from
time to time.
Godfather.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
But if you follow this logic to its end, isn't one of the reasons why people get guns in this circumstance so they won't be a victim? Seems like it's playing both sides of the card.
Also, if everyone used their right to bear arms and got a gun, doesn't it pretty much completely under-mind the point for getting one?
I'm NOT disagreeing or agreeing with this Florida law but wonder what prompted Jeb to enact such a law ?
I'm guessing that some people got tired of being a victim and when they did fight back they were sued by
their attacker, my old gf worked for a law office and told me a little about this kind of thing happening from
time to time.
Godfather.
my honest opinion is if everybody carried a gun there would be less rape's and muggings a over all decrease
in violent crime's..but maybe not.
I agree with a back ground check,anybody who is a felon should not own gun's.
But if you follow this logic to its end, isn't one of the reasons why people get guns in this circumstance so they won't be a victim? Seems like it's playing both sides of the card.
Also, if everyone used their right to bear arms and got a gun, doesn't it pretty much completely under-mind the point for getting one?
I'm NOT disagreeing or agreeing with this Florida law but wonder what prompted Jeb to enact such a law ?
I'm guessing that some people got tired of being a victim and when they did fight back they were sued by
their attacker, my old gf worked for a law office and told me a little about this kind of thing happening from
time to time.
Godfather.
my honest opinion is if everybody carried a gun there would be less rape's and muggings a over all decrease
in violent crime's..but maybe not.
I agree with a back ground check,anybody who is a felon should not own gun's.
Godfather.
Rape, murder and muggings are crimes of surprise attacks where a person carrying a gun 98% of the time could not initially react sufficently to shoot the attacker. The shoot first laws allow people to kill without consequences based on feelings. With these laws, there is no line to be crossed to stop a person from 'finding a reason' to kill another person because of feelings. As a gun owner, this means I could create a situation to provoke what I consider a threatening situation and be justified in killing a person.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
I actually believe the opposite, if everyone had a gun, we'd see more violence. And looking around our society, just because people don't have a criminal record, doesn't mean they have common sense or smarts enough to walk around with a gun and not have things occur.
my honest opinion is if everybody carried a gun there would be less rape's and muggings a over all decrease
in violent crime's..but maybe not.
I agree with a back ground check,anybody who is a felon should not own gun's.
Godfather.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
well I saw a program on the documentary channel about Switzerland (I think it was Switzerland) and every
person after high school have to do a few years in the Swiss Military,they are issued a gun and after leaving the military they are to keep them, home invasions are minimal.
I don't deny that, but two points : 1 - military people are probably more responsible than an average joe with a gun - whether for their home protection or in public. 2 - we are not switzerland. we have a different culture and lifestyle.
well I saw a program on the documentary channel about Switzerland (I think it was Switzerland) and every
person after high school have to do a few years in the Swiss Military,they are issued a gun and after leaving the military they are to keep them, home invasions are minimal.
Godfather.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
It's such a difficult situation. Nobody can deny that more guns=more murder, but at the same time, I'm not sure how taking away guns would help.
Was it Chris Rock that suggested instead of outlawing guns, taxing the shit out of ammunition and make it SUPER expensive. The scary part, it almost seems like a reasonable suggestion...
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
In my opinion, we should have like a ban on guns for like 2- 3 years. Anyone caught with one will be prosecuted and have it taken away. This would help get rid of the criminal aspects and generic "bad" parts of the issue. Then once this set ban passes, allow people to either re-submit for licenses and if pass, they get them back. It controls the negative aspects, yet rewards the good side in the long term and benefits society as a whole. The fact is, with any right we have, sometime we have to "make-do" or "give up some" to get it back even better in the long term.
It's such a difficult situation. Nobody can deny that more guns=more murder, but at the same time, I'm not sure how taking away guns would help.
Was it Chris Rock that suggested instead of outlawing guns, taxing the shit out of ammunition and make it SUPER expensive. The scary part, it almost seems like a reasonable suggestion...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
In my opinion, we should have like a ban on guns for like 2- 3 years. Anyone caught with one will be prosecuted and have it taken away. This would help get rid of the criminal aspects and generic "bad" parts of the issue. Then once this set ban passes, allow people to either re-submit for licenses and if pass, they get them back. It controls the negative aspects, yet rewards the good side in the long term and benefits society as a whole. The fact is, with any right we have, sometime we have to "make-do" or "give up some" to get it back even better in the long term.
How's this going to work if the main problem is people using illegal guns in the first place? The only people who would follow your 2-3 year ban are the people who don't typically shoot up the streets in the first place.
Well here's the thing, if we had the nation behind it, who wouldn't want to rid their community of illegal guns and crime? And the people who you are describing would be easy to target then.
How's this going to work if the main problem is people using illegal guns in the first place? The only people who would follow your 2-3 year ban are the people who don't typically shoot up the streets in the first place.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Well here's the thing, if we had the nation behind it, who wouldn't want to rid their community of illegal guns and crime? And the people who you are describing would be easy to target then.
Maybe, but I guess I am thinking that a total ban is not needed to set the stage for more strict regulations. One can toughen up ownership requirements without wiping the whole slate clean. Also, gangbanger-types are not hard to identify now. Some hunter dressed up like Elmer Fudd looks nothing like the average male who commits handgun crimes.
I don't know... to me it seems like a nothing but upside idea. I'm sure there's flaws in it, but if everyone was behind it, it would help everyone in society. To me, if you include everyone, it's just and across the board for everyone in society. I think if we did take such measures, two groups would have issues, gun nuts who are anti-government worried they'll never get them back and minority groups feeling they were unfairly targeted. But in the end, its not racism or soling out one particular group.. its for everyone benefit in society.
Maybe, but I guess I am thinking that a total ban is not needed to set the stage for more strict regulations. One can toughen up ownership requirements without wiping the whole slate clean. Also, gangbanger-types are not hard to identify now. Some hunter dressed up like Elmer Fudd looks nothing like the average male who commits handgun crimes.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I don't like being around strangers who are carrying guns. If I was in a Starbucks or any other public place and I saw someone walking around with a gun, I'd leave. Right then. I don't want to be around crazy people with guns.
:geek:
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
for some reason "cup of coffee and a 45" reminds me of that store "40s and 9s" from that movie "dont be a menace to south central while drinking your gin and juice in the hood"...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Of course not... Having said that, I'd take a crazy man with a gun than a crazy man without a gun any day...
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
I guess what bothers me most about random people walking around with guns is that you never know which one is a person with anger management problems. I don't think gun purchases are restricted to patient, reasonable people.
How'd you like to be in a ridiculously slow line in a store with some impatient jerk with a gun behind you? :?
How'd you like to be the server in a restaurant to some angry guy with a gun?
Really, the possibility for horrible situations with volatile people and guns is endless!!!
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0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
lol! Someone said people are wanting to carry because they are scared. Who's really the scared ones?
You realize the only thing that a ban would do is keeping the law abiding citizens from carrying, the gang bangers will still carry.
I'm amazed some if you can find the nerve to even leave the house.
When people carry guns around they are behaving like bullies.
I think they are cowards. The only reason to walk around with a gun is to try to intimidate people. I don't like bullies.
It doesn't mean I won't leave the house, but I have a policy of avoiding people I don't like.
Don't go insulting me and telling me that I "can't find the nerve to leave the house" just because I would avoid a gun-toting person. Give me a reasonable explanation for why they need to carry a weapon like that.
I wouldn't have a problem with people carrying guns.. if I didn't think people were assholes.
This weekend... try this experiemnt.
Go out to the mall or any othr busy public place... look around and all of the people... see how they act... what they are doing... all that crap.
Then, ask yourself... would you feel safer knowing that all these people are carrying a loaded weapon?
...
Seriously... would you? The airhead bimbo yaking away on her cell phone... carrying a loaded H&K 9mm. Guy that looks like he's a cast member of 'Jersey Shore'... got a Colt Peacemaker tucked in his pant waist.
...
People argue gun points with unrealistic variables. Here are the real facts we have to face:
Not everyone is a psycho that is going to shoot up the place...
and not every with a gun isn't an asshole.
...
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
How'd you like to be in a ridiculously slow line in a store with some impatient jerk with a gun behind you? :?
How'd you like to be the server in a restaurant to some angry guy with a gun?
Really, the possibility for horrible situations with volatile people and guns is endless!!!
lol! Someone said people are wanting to carry because they are scared. Who's really the scared ones?
You realize the only thing that a ban would do is keeping the law abiding citizens from carrying, the gang bangers will still carry.
I'm amazed some if you can find the nerve to even leave the house.
...
When was the last time you ran across a 'Gang Banger'?
When was the last time you ran across a law abiding citizen... who got irrate at you?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I live in a city that is filled with gang bangers but I don't go into their parts of town because I choose to avoid the problems.
That being said they are mobile and go everywhere.
I'd feel much safer with a law abiding citizen than some pos derelict. I grew up around guns and I own many. It doesn't make me a tough guy if o could carry, if nothing else I'd be on better behavior.
I generally don't have too many people giving me much trouble, but I'm not 5'6" 160 lbs either.
Comments
Even more disturbing are the stand your ground laws that have expanded the shoot first laws. I shouldn't have to worry about someone's state of mind when they got up in the morning and strapped on their gun. These laws give citizens more rights than police officers to kill another person.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00735.html
The Shoot-First State
Sunday, May 1, 2005
LET'S SAY that you're behind the wheel and think someone wants to carjack your automobile and cause you bodily harm. Or suppose you get into a dispute with another shopper over a place in the supermarket's checkout line, and the shopper's aggressive behavior causes you to fear imminent peril. In both cases, you could -- and common sense suggests that you should -- retreat or back away from the scene if it can be done safely. But in Florida under a measure passed overwhelmingly by the state legislature last week, you would no longer have a duty to escape or retreat before resorting to the use of deadly force. The bill, signed into law Tuesday by Gov. Jeb Bush (R), will allow people in Florida -- without fear of criminal prosecution or civil action -- to shoot, stab or pummel to death anyone who causes them to fear for their lives outside of their homes, on the street, or in their cars or businesses. It's called the "Castle Doctrine," meaning your body, not just your home, is your castle and that you can stand your ground and meet force with force virtually anywhere if you reasonably believe injury or death might occur. A retired police officer in St. Petersburg, writing in the St. Petersburg Times, described the legislature's bill as the "citizens' right to shoot others on the street if they feel threatened" and asked, "Are they nuts?" That, we cannot answer. ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/07/us/07 ... gewanted=1
15 States Expand Right to Shoot in Self-Defense
Published: August 7, 2006
In the last year, 15 states have enacted laws that expand the right of self-defense, allowing crime victims to use deadly force in situations that might formerly have subjected them to prosecution for murder. ...
In addition, the law does away with an earlier requirement that a person attacked in a public place must retreat if possible. Now, that same person, in the law’s words, “has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force.” The law also forbids the arrest, detention or prosecution of the people covered by the law, and it prohibits civil suits against them. ...
I'm NOT disagreeing or agreeing with this florida law but wonder what promped Jeb to inact such a law ?
I'm guessing that some people got tired of being a victim and when they did fight back they were sued by
their attacker, my old gf worked for a law office and told me a little about this kind of thing happening from
time to time.
Godfather.
Also, if everyone used their right to bear arms and got a gun, doesn't it pretty much completely under-mind the point for getting one?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
my honest opinion is if everybody carried a gun there would be less rape's and muggings a over all decrease
in violent crime's..but maybe not.
I agree with a back ground check,anybody who is a felon should not own gun's.
Godfather.
Rape, murder and muggings are crimes of surprise attacks where a person carrying a gun 98% of the time could not initially react sufficently to shoot the attacker. The shoot first laws allow people to kill without consequences based on feelings. With these laws, there is no line to be crossed to stop a person from 'finding a reason' to kill another person because of feelings. As a gun owner, this means I could create a situation to provoke what I consider a threatening situation and be justified in killing a person.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
person after high school have to do a few years in the Swiss Military,they are issued a gun and after leaving the military they are to keep them, home invasions are minimal.
Godfather.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Was it Chris Rock that suggested instead of outlawing guns, taxing the shit out of ammunition and make it SUPER expensive. The scary part, it almost seems like a reasonable suggestion...
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
How's this going to work if the main problem is people using illegal guns in the first place? The only people who would follow your 2-3 year ban are the people who don't typically shoot up the streets in the first place.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Maybe, but I guess I am thinking that a total ban is not needed to set the stage for more strict regulations. One can toughen up ownership requirements without wiping the whole slate clean. Also, gangbanger-types are not hard to identify now. Some hunter dressed up like Elmer Fudd looks nothing like the average male who commits handgun crimes.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I knew a guy for a year who carried a concealed gun. Never felt same with him at all. He had a short fuse. Wonder if he is alive today.....?
People who feel they cannot leave the house without packing creep me out a bit too ... Someone who is just a hobbyist, who cares?
I wonder what % of heatpackers do so just to feel tough, as opposed to feeling safe/protected.
:geek:
I didn't say that.
I DO think it's unnecessary and therefore kinda crazy to walk into restaurants and coffee shops with a gun on your hip though.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
How'd you like to be in a ridiculously slow line in a store with some impatient jerk with a gun behind you? :?
How'd you like to be the server in a restaurant to some angry guy with a gun?
Really, the possibility for horrible situations with volatile people and guns is endless!!!
lol! Someone said people are wanting to carry because they are scared. Who's really the scared ones?
You realize the only thing that a ban would do is keeping the law abiding citizens from carrying, the gang bangers will still carry.
I'm amazed some if you can find the nerve to even leave the house.
When people carry guns around they are behaving like bullies.
I think they are cowards. The only reason to walk around with a gun is to try to intimidate people. I don't like bullies.
It doesn't mean I won't leave the house, but I have a policy of avoiding people I don't like.
Don't go insulting me and telling me that I "can't find the nerve to leave the house" just because I would avoid a gun-toting person. Give me a reasonable explanation for why they need to carry a weapon like that.
This weekend... try this experiemnt.
Go out to the mall or any othr busy public place... look around and all of the people... see how they act... what they are doing... all that crap.
Then, ask yourself... would you feel safer knowing that all these people are carrying a loaded weapon?
...
Seriously... would you? The airhead bimbo yaking away on her cell phone... carrying a loaded H&K 9mm. Guy that looks like he's a cast member of 'Jersey Shore'... got a Colt Peacemaker tucked in his pant waist.
...
People argue gun points with unrealistic variables. Here are the real facts we have to face:
Not everyone is a psycho that is going to shoot up the place...
and not every with a gun isn't an asshole.
...
Hail, Hail!!!
When was the last time you ran across a 'Gang Banger'?
When was the last time you ran across a law abiding citizen... who got irrate at you?
Hail, Hail!!!
That being said they are mobile and go everywhere.
I'd feel much safer with a law abiding citizen than some pos derelict. I grew up around guns and I own many. It doesn't make me a tough guy if o could carry, if nothing else I'd be on better behavior.
I generally don't have too many people giving me much trouble, but I'm not 5'6" 160 lbs either.
Seems like a good idea to me