Wrong dude. Totally racist. American farmers had been growing cannabis hemp since the beginning of the country. In fact, in Virginia and I believe Kentucky, farmers were mandated to grow it. It was one of the MOST IMPORTANT crops in america, for INDUSTRIAL use, and of course they liked to smoke the flowers as well. (Research the founding fathers, and yes George Washington seperated his male and female hemp plants, why, for smoking).
When the powers that be went to make it illegal they had to come up with a new name to call it because everyone knew what cannabis hemp was. So they created the "Mexican Menace" the "Mexican Devil Weed" that made lowclass mexican men, and black men, go crazy and rape and kill white women. And they used the "exotic" and "foreign" sounding slang term "marijuana" to classify this new menace.
SO if thats not racist, what is. Do some research. Read a book. Watch a documentary. Even a cursory search of "marijuana" propaganda you will find blatant racism. So "you think not"? Think again.
Post edited by ryanevolution on
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DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
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Kel, I don't think you get it. If you could buy your weed at the corner store or pharmacy would you continue to buy from your shady dealer? There would just need to be fines or criminality in growing your own for taxation to work.
But if the shady dealer can sell for way cheaper because of no taxes and minimal overhead and already has an operation and connections set up, what motivation is there for his customers to go to a corner store? In Ontario tax free illegal cigarettes are a huge market because they are easy to get and way cheaper from getting them from a store. And the whole illegal cigarettes black market has way less of a built in infrastructure compared to what grow ops and pot dealers have now.
If weed was legalized in a regulated and commercialized sense, with extra harsh enforcement targeting illegal grows, the current expert pot growers would likely be working for Budweiser or Pfizer or Phillip Morris or whichever fuckin corporate industry was the one that successfully lobbied for the laws to change, within six months. The fact that they have a couple lights and stolen hydro would give them zero advantage once it became a legit industry....pot would be mass-produced and probably filled with toxic chemicals much like tobacco is, in no time.
So again...I could only get behind the legal/tax scenario with a huge amount of personal discretion applied...
I think taking the drug debate from a 'war', to a healthcare issue, only to turn it all over to the corporate interests that supported the war, would be like one step forward, two back...
I still don't see those huge mass produced companies being able to compete with a guy with a small or medium sized grow ops. There is a reason that a home brewer or wine maker can make cheaper often better than beer or wine than a commercial brewery or winery. Most of the reason it is cheaper is because the guy making beer in his basement doesn’t have to pay things like wages, employee benefits or shipping costs or taxes (the huge one). Most people don’t sell their home brew because it is pretty labour intensive and distribution (ie getting a shit load of bottles) is a pain in the ass. With grow ops they also wouldn’t pay taxes or wages, and distribution would be in ziplock baggies to the people they already have a business relationship to. How does Budweiser or Pfizer compete with that, especially when they have the added cost of setting up an all new operation?
I agree, the more pots heads out there, the better it makes me look when I go for a job after college!
But no seriously, it would hopefully take some money away from the drug cartells in Mexico and South America. We can over tax the shit out of it like tabacco. I don't smoke, but support this!
Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.
The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.
You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:
Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed
These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal
Evolution Music Studios presents:
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
I stated this on page 2 of this thread.. thought it was pretty clear about my position. I do not think it will ever be legalized for a wide variety of reasons, but we need to adjust (lower) the criminalization aspects for low level offenders and offer more treatment programs for ongoing offenders. I hope you find my opinion suitable. :roll:
What people need to figure out is that these drugs will never be legal... if anything we need to adjust the justice system to properly correct the penalties and long term criminalization/treatment programs of those who get caught. And yes, as goose points out, it turns into a socio-economic project to sweep the poor minorities to jail.
Can you clarify what you mean by adjusting the criminal aspects? You did pay lip service to the notion earlier in the thread, but didn't give any detail other than admitting a need for it.
What adjustments? You either maintain the status quo, with harsher or less severe penalties...or you decrim or legalize. Do you have another option? I 'attack' your opinion because I disagree with it, and feel confident in my reasons for said disagreements. You haven't said anything to change my mind, yet...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I still don't see those huge mass produced companies being able to compete with a guy with a small or medium sized grow ops. There is a reason that a home brewer or wine maker can make cheaper often better than beer or wine than a commercial brewery or winery. Most of the reason it is cheaper is because the guy making beer in his basement doesn’t have to pay things like wages, employee benefits or shipping costs or taxes (the huge one). Most people don’t sell their home brew because it is pretty labour intensive and distribution (ie getting a shit load of bottles) is a pain in the ass. With grow ops they also wouldn’t pay taxes or wages, and distribution would be in ziplock baggies to the people they already have a business relationship to. How does Budweiser or Pfizer compete with that, especially when they have the added cost of setting up an all new operation?
I hear you, and it sounds like we’re close to being on the same page…sounds like our only disconnect might be the level/system of taxation, unless I'm misreading something…
I guess it depends on how the laws would be structured. If a license was easy and cheap to obtain and maintain, and the quality/inspection standards set were not created to somehow favour commercial grows, then I’d be onboard. But if any of these industries ever got behind the idea (which they likely never will, cause under the scenario we’re discussing – the only really workable one – it would hurt their primary business)….it would be dangerous to underestimate the lengths they’d go to in order to manipulate the laws/regulations/standards to their benefit and away from the consumer/public’s best interest….you know they’d try to.
I stated this on page 2 of this thread.. thought it was pretty clear about my position. I do not think it will ever be legalized for a wide variety of reasons, but we need to adjust (lower) the criminalization aspects for low level offenders and offer more treatment programs for ongoing offenders. I hope you find my opinion suitable. :roll:
What people need to figure out is that these drugs will never be legal... if anything we need to adjust the justice system to properly correct the penalties and long term criminalization/treatment programs of those who get caught. And yes, as goose points out, it turns into a socio-economic project to sweep the poor minorities to jail.
This is the lip service I was referring to… What does ‘lower criminalization aspects’ mean? Just trying to get an understanding of where you’re coming from, you’re all over the map.
I assume this means you want to continue to prosecute, (perhaps more severely), those that profit from it…?
So…your stance does very little to improve the status quo…lowering penalties for ‘low level offenders’ would not generate enough savings (and no taxes) to pay for your treatment/education programs…if you choose to prosecute the business side more harshly, you just lost your savings....
If reducing use is your goal, relying heavily on deterrence has consistently proven to be ineffective, actually it's been detrimental.
Speaking of ‘goals’…after making the admissions you’ve made in this thread, it’s obvious that your stance is morality based. I know you’ll say ‘all laws are morality based’…but where do we draw the discrimination line? This is not a fringe minority making some radically antisocial demand. It’s people from all walks of life, with a legit personal freedom claim. So no, your opinion is not suitable to me. Keep it if you want, but I will call bullshit on it if I think it is, and you post it for public consumption… don’t get all pouty about having your opinion challenged on a political debate board :roll: Not like I wished cancer on you or anything.
You certainly like to put words in my mouth on this one huh? Anything to prove some random point I suppose.
I do not understand your connection in this thread.. .on one hand you say you're for the legalization of marijuana, yet on the other talk about the status quo and discount the results. If you really want to have an honest and open debate about drugs, vices and morality, perhaps we should cut to the chase and more closely discuss human behavior and poverty in the US. These two are far more responsible for crime, drug/vices and similar in our nation that any silly marijuana discussion. As I've stated previously, I do not particularly care about this issue all that much, but did state my opinion. My opinion is not "the status quo", our nation as a whole has double standards regarding these vices.. we pick and choose which are acceptable and are not. That's the reality of this discussion and something you seem to ignore. I am not offering solutions to change society's opinions on this matter, but did offer a few ways in which I feel it would benefit society as a whole in regards to drug policies we currently have. You seem to be of the "all or none" stance.. which quite frankly is inconsequential because it is only viable in a vacuum, not our nation or reality.
Also, you make an attempt to use the morality card as justification for legalization because people don't need to be policed, etc. Can't the same argument be stated in the opposite direction just as equally - that legalizing harmful drugs is merely enabling people and their problems further and therefore need to be policed? Seems like you have a very narrow scope in which you determine your opinion on this matter.
This is the lip service I was referring to… What does ‘lower criminalization aspects’ mean? Just trying to get an understanding of where you’re coming from, you’re all over the map.
I assume this means you want to continue to prosecute, (perhaps more severely), those that profit from it…?
So…your stance does very little to improve the status quo…lowering penalties for ‘low level offenders’ would not generate enough savings (and no taxes) to pay for your treatment/education programs…if you choose to prosecute the business side more harshly, you just lost your savings....
If reducing use is your goal, relying heavily on deterrence has consistently proven to be ineffective, actually it's been detrimental.
Speaking of ‘goals’…after making the admissions you’ve made in this thread, it’s obvious that your stance is morality based. I know you’ll say ‘all laws are morality based’…but where do we draw the discrimination line? This is not a fringe minority making some radically antisocial demand. It’s people from all walks of life, with a legit personal freedom claim. So no, your opinion is not suitable to me. Keep it if you want, but I will call bullshit on it if I think it is, and you post it for public consumption… don’t get all pouty about having your opinion challenged on a political debate board :roll: Not like I wished cancer on you or anything.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
The so called war on drugs is probably the largest waste of resources we have seen.
Also STOP calling it the racist fictitious wordsound "marijuana". It is cannabis or hemp.
man, you really want things to be politically correct!
In my personal experiences -- without the help of internet searches, documentaries, or any other ways to rain down the proper ways of discussing marijuana, I have NEVER heard of this being an issue of race. It's not that i dont believe your stance or the things that the internet and documentaries say, but pretty much nobody cares about that anymore. That's just my personal experience. I know plenty of black people, mexicans, and others on that list that always refer to it as marijuana. unless i missed something too, I dont get the issue with this.
You certainly like to put words in my mouth on this one huh? Anything to prove some random point I suppose.
I do not understand your connection in this thread.. .on one hand you say you're for the legalization of marijuana, yet on the other talk about the status quo and discount the results. If you really want to have an honest and open debate about drugs, vices and morality, perhaps we should cut to the chase and more closely discuss human behavior and poverty in the US. These two are far more responsible for crime, drug/vices and similar in our nation that any silly marijuana discussion. As I've stated previously, I do not particularly care about this issue all that much, but did state my opinion. My opinion is not "the status quo", our nation as a whole has double standards regarding these vices.. we pick and choose which are acceptable and are not. That's the reality of this discussion and something you seem to ignore. I am not offering solutions to change society's opinions on this matter, but did offer a few ways in which I feel it would benefit society as a whole in regards to drug policies we currently have. You seem to be of the "all or none" stance.. which quite frankly is inconsequential because it is only viable in a vacuum, not our nation or reality.
sigh...you are the one with random points. I think I've been pretty clear regarding my stance while you have no goal in mind, just minor tweaks and more of the same. your defeatist attitude negates any meaningful discussion. It won't change, so why bother, right? I beg to differ...public opinion on the drug war has already been molded by anti-drug propaganda; education on the topic can do the same again...
So if we must take baby steps as you suggest, isn't it best to know in which direction they should be taken?
Changing penalties is more like chasing our tails...I'll take whatever progress I can get, so no...it's not all or none...but I would continue pushing until I felt the laws were just. Isn't that the moral thing to do?
Also, you make an attempt to use the morality card as justification for legalization because people don't need to be policed, etc. Can't the same argument be stated in the opposite direction just as equally - that legalizing harmful drugs is merely enabling people and their problems further and therefore need to be policed? Seems like you have a very narrow scope in which you determine your opinion on this matter.
Their access to pot does not change with legality, only the consequences of possessing it! (well, other than the possibility of it becoming harder for underage people to obtain)....
you know this, and it negates your 'enabling' position.
Your inclination or assumption is that the legalization of marijuana is what our society wants and is what's best for everyone. This is your opinion and does not actually represent what is best for society but only represents what you think would be best. Not that same thing at all.
You also make an assumption that either what we currently employ is not the best possibility, it needs changing or even that people want to change this issue/problem. These are not facts, but merely your opinion on the subject.
I personally do not care much on this issue, mostly because there's about 1 million and 1 things more important in my viewpoint we can adjust or fix which are vastly more important and significant than marijuana.
sigh...you are the one with random points. I think I've been pretty clear regarding my stance while you have no goal in mind, just minor tweaks and more of the same. your defeatist attitude negates any meaningful discussion. It won't change, so why bother, right? I beg to differ...public opinion on the drug war has already been molded by anti-drug propaganda; education on the topic can do the same again...
So if we must take baby steps as you suggest, isn't it best to know in which direction they should be taken?
Changing penalties is more like chasing our tails...I'll take whatever progress I can get, so no...it's not all or none...but I would continue pushing until I felt the laws were just. Isn't that the moral thing to do?
Their access to pot does not change with legality, only the consequences of possessing it! (well, other than the possibility of it becoming harder for underage people to obtain)....
you know this, and it negates your 'enabling' position.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
...You also make an assumption that either what we currently employ is not the best possibility, it needs changing or even that people want to change this issue/problem. These are not facts, but merely your opinion on the subject.
Actually, they are facts. I don't think any educated person would argue that the current system is just fine the way it is. And support for legalizing marijuana has never been higher (pun intended).
A gallop poll is great to show what people want, but it doesn't necessarily reflect what works in practice - correct? Gallop polls show all the time that most Americans aren't in line with most major policies and issues compared to actual practice as well. Call it a broken system, call it an out of touch/uncaring representative government, but to me, it's just not that important of an issue. That's my take, take it for what you will.
Actually, they are facts. I don't think any educated person would argue that the current system is just fine the way it is. And support for legalizing marijuana has never been higher (pun intended).
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
A gallop poll is great to show what people want, but it doesn't necessarily reflect what works in practice - correct? Gallop polls show all the time that most Americans aren't in line with most major policies and issues compared to actual practice as well. Call it a broken system, call it an out of touch/uncaring representative government, but to me, it's just not that important of an issue. That's my take, take it for what you will.
Actually, they are facts. I don't think any educated person would argue that the current system is just fine the way it is. And support for legalizing marijuana has never been higher (pun intended).
If you could care less about this subject I can't understand what you are doing in this thread. I'm kind of embarassed for you.
I don't smoke weed at all. But this an issue for me because of the countless people that face harsh prison time for a drug no worse than most pharmacueticals. Not to mention the billions of tax dollars spent fighting this retarded "war on drugs".
Pretty ridiculous statement. Just because I'm not riled up like some on the issue doesn't mean I can't have an opinion or talk about the subject matter.
Secondly, many of you sit here and claim how harsh the penatlies and similar are for being caught, but how about a little responsibility on the matter? The punishments may not be fair, but that doesn't take away from the fact that people are willingly breaking the law by taking or selling illegal drugs when they know what the penalties may be after the fact. How come there's no comment on that? The injustice of a harsh penalty doesn't excuse the breaking of laws we all know in advance.
If you could care less about this subject I can't understand what you are doing in this thread. I'm kind of embarassed for you.
I don't smoke weed at all. But this an issue for me because of the countless people that face harsh prison time for a drug no worse than most pharmacueticals. Not to mention the billions of tax dollars spent fighting this retarded "war on drugs".
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Pretty ridiculous statement. Just because I'm not riled up like some on the issue doesn't mean I can't have an opinion or talk about the subject matter.
Secondly, many of you sit here and claim how harsh the penatlies and similar are for being caught, but how about a little responsibility on the matter? The punishments may not be fair, but that doesn't take away from the fact that people are willingly breaking the law by taking or selling illegal drugs when they know what the penalties may be after the fact. How come there's no comment on that? The injustice of a harsh penalty doesn't excuse the breaking of laws we all know in advance.
If you could care less about this subject I can't understand what you are doing in this thread. I'm kind of embarassed for you.
I don't smoke weed at all. But this an issue for me because of the countless people that face harsh prison time for a drug no worse than most pharmacueticals. Not to mention the billions of tax dollars spent fighting this retarded "war on drugs".
You completely ignored the most important part of my post. The money being spent. We are not talking about people deliberately breaking the law because we think it shouldn't be illegal. Common sense. Try it.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
You sit here and say I should try common sense yet you're discussing hypothetical situations which do not exist. My comments are based on what we currently have and see in society, not some eutopian place where marijuana is legal and people can grow it and smoke it as they please. This place is in fantasy land, not our reality....so mock and ignore my comments, but recognize you're arguement is no different from "if my mom had balls, she'd be my dad".
You completely ignored the most important part of my post. The money being spent. We are not talking about people deliberately breaking the law because we think it shouldn't be illegal. Common sense. Try it.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You sit here and say I should try common sense yet you're discussing hypothetical situations which do not exist. My comments are based on what we currently have and see in society, not some eutopian place where marijuana is legal and people can grow it and smoke it as they please. This place is in fantasy land, not our reality....so mock and ignore my comments, but recognize you're arguement is no different from "if my mom had balls, she'd be my dad".
You completely ignored the most important part of my post. The money being spent. We are not talking about people deliberately breaking the law because we think it shouldn't be illegal. Common sense. Try it.
I'm not even sure what you are saying or more importantly why you are saying it. This thread is about making marijuana legal. It's the fucking title. That's what we are talking about. Why are you even in here???? I'm done with you.
You people are funny and make me chuckle. I did comment on this topic and was told by several of people that because they don't agree with me, my opinion is thus meaningless... or by you, get lost. This is a message board for talk, opinions and debate in case you forgot.
I'm not even sure what you are saying or more importantly why you are saying it. This thread is about making marijuana legal. It's the fucking title. That's what we are talking about. Why are you even in here???? I'm done with you.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You people are funny and make me chuckle. I did comment on this topic and was told by several of people that because they don't agree with me, my opinion is thus meaningless... or by you, get lost. This is a message board for talk, opinions and debate in case you forgot.
I'm not even sure what you are saying or more importantly why you are saying it. This thread is about making marijuana legal. It's the fucking title. That's what we are talking about. Why are you even in here???? I'm done with you.
I'm not even sure you have an opinion. You have made absolutely no sense throughout my conversation with you. I'm not done with you because of any opinions you have, I'm done because I'm tired of going around in circles. I feel like a dog chasing my tail trying to communicate with you. Honestly, you are all over the place. Sorry, I have nothing more for you.
I have stated and elaborated my commentary on the subject from the beginning to end and have done nothing but respond to people commenting or questioning my opinion. Sorry if you didn't follow or agree. Good day sir.
I'm not even sure you have an opinion. You have made absolutely no sense throughout my conversation with you. I'm not done with you because of any opinions you have, I'm done because I'm tired of going around in circles. I feel like a dog chasing my tail trying to communicate with you. Honestly, you are all over the place. Sorry, I have nothing more for you.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Comments
THE PROBLEM IS NOT RECREATIONAL USE> THE POWERS THAT BE ARE TERRIFIED OF CANNABIS' INDUSTRIAL USES!!!!!! WAKE UP!!!!!!
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
Wrong dude. Totally racist. American farmers had been growing cannabis hemp since the beginning of the country. In fact, in Virginia and I believe Kentucky, farmers were mandated to grow it. It was one of the MOST IMPORTANT crops in america, for INDUSTRIAL use, and of course they liked to smoke the flowers as well. (Research the founding fathers, and yes George Washington seperated his male and female hemp plants, why, for smoking).
When the powers that be went to make it illegal they had to come up with a new name to call it because everyone knew what cannabis hemp was. So they created the "Mexican Menace" the "Mexican Devil Weed" that made lowclass mexican men, and black men, go crazy and rape and kill white women. And they used the "exotic" and "foreign" sounding slang term "marijuana" to classify this new menace.
SO if thats not racist, what is. Do some research. Read a book. Watch a documentary. Even a cursory search of "marijuana" propaganda you will find blatant racism. So "you think not"? Think again.
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
I still don't see those huge mass produced companies being able to compete with a guy with a small or medium sized grow ops. There is a reason that a home brewer or wine maker can make cheaper often better than beer or wine than a commercial brewery or winery. Most of the reason it is cheaper is because the guy making beer in his basement doesn’t have to pay things like wages, employee benefits or shipping costs or taxes (the huge one). Most people don’t sell their home brew because it is pretty labour intensive and distribution (ie getting a shit load of bottles) is a pain in the ass. With grow ops they also wouldn’t pay taxes or wages, and distribution would be in ziplock baggies to the people they already have a business relationship to. How does Budweiser or Pfizer compete with that, especially when they have the added cost of setting up an all new operation?
But no seriously, it would hopefully take some money away from the drug cartells in Mexico and South America. We can over tax the shit out of it like tabacco. I don't smoke, but support this!
EXCERPTS FROM ABOVE PAGE:
Many people assume that marijuana was made illegal through some kind of process involving scientific, medical, and government hearings; that it was to protect the citizens from what was determined to be a dangerous drug.
The actual story shows a much different picture. Those who voted on the legal fate of this plant never had the facts, but were dependent on information supplied by those who had a specific agenda to deceive lawmakers. You’ll see below that the very first federal vote to prohibit marijuana was based entirely on a documented lie on the floor of the Senate.
You’ll also see that the history of marijuana’s criminalization is filled with:
Racism
Fear
Protection of Corporate Profits
Yellow Journalism
Ignorant, Incompetent, and/or Corrupt Legislators
Personal Career Advancement and Greed
These are the actual reasons marijuana is illegal
DO THE EVOLUTION - a 20th Anniversary Tribute Celebration
of PEARL JAM - WORLD CAFE LIVE PHILLY JUNE 19th 7pm
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I guess it depends on how the laws would be structured. If a license was easy and cheap to obtain and maintain, and the quality/inspection standards set were not created to somehow favour commercial grows, then I’d be onboard. But if any of these industries ever got behind the idea (which they likely never will, cause under the scenario we’re discussing – the only really workable one – it would hurt their primary business)….it would be dangerous to underestimate the lengths they’d go to in order to manipulate the laws/regulations/standards to their benefit and away from the consumer/public’s best interest….you know they’d try to.
This is the lip service I was referring to… What does ‘lower criminalization aspects’ mean? Just trying to get an understanding of where you’re coming from, you’re all over the map.
I assume this means you want to continue to prosecute, (perhaps more severely), those that profit from it…?
So…your stance does very little to improve the status quo…lowering penalties for ‘low level offenders’ would not generate enough savings (and no taxes) to pay for your treatment/education programs…if you choose to prosecute the business side more harshly, you just lost your savings....
If reducing use is your goal, relying heavily on deterrence has consistently proven to be ineffective, actually it's been detrimental.
Speaking of ‘goals’…after making the admissions you’ve made in this thread, it’s obvious that your stance is morality based. I know you’ll say ‘all laws are morality based’…but where do we draw the discrimination line? This is not a fringe minority making some radically antisocial demand. It’s people from all walks of life, with a legit personal freedom claim. So no, your opinion is not suitable to me. Keep it if you want, but I will call bullshit on it if I think it is, and you post it for public consumption… don’t get all pouty about having your opinion challenged on a political debate board :roll: Not like I wished cancer on you or anything.
I do not understand your connection in this thread.. .on one hand you say you're for the legalization of marijuana, yet on the other talk about the status quo and discount the results. If you really want to have an honest and open debate about drugs, vices and morality, perhaps we should cut to the chase and more closely discuss human behavior and poverty in the US. These two are far more responsible for crime, drug/vices and similar in our nation that any silly marijuana discussion. As I've stated previously, I do not particularly care about this issue all that much, but did state my opinion. My opinion is not "the status quo", our nation as a whole has double standards regarding these vices.. we pick and choose which are acceptable and are not. That's the reality of this discussion and something you seem to ignore. I am not offering solutions to change society's opinions on this matter, but did offer a few ways in which I feel it would benefit society as a whole in regards to drug policies we currently have. You seem to be of the "all or none" stance.. which quite frankly is inconsequential because it is only viable in a vacuum, not our nation or reality.
Also, you make an attempt to use the morality card as justification for legalization because people don't need to be policed, etc. Can't the same argument be stated in the opposite direction just as equally - that legalizing harmful drugs is merely enabling people and their problems further and therefore need to be policed? Seems like you have a very narrow scope in which you determine your opinion on this matter.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
man, you really want things to be politically correct!
In my personal experiences -- without the help of internet searches, documentaries, or any other ways to rain down the proper ways of discussing marijuana, I have NEVER heard of this being an issue of race. It's not that i dont believe your stance or the things that the internet and documentaries say, but pretty much nobody cares about that anymore. That's just my personal experience. I know plenty of black people, mexicans, and others on that list that always refer to it as marijuana. unless i missed something too, I dont get the issue with this.
Yes, a tax on pot would be fine with me if it is purchased, and if those other taxes were eliminated first.
No taxes for growing it yourself!
One can dream.
sigh...you are the one with random points. I think I've been pretty clear regarding my stance while you have no goal in mind, just minor tweaks and more of the same. your defeatist attitude negates any meaningful discussion. It won't change, so why bother, right? I beg to differ...public opinion on the drug war has already been molded by anti-drug propaganda; education on the topic can do the same again...
So if we must take baby steps as you suggest, isn't it best to know in which direction they should be taken?
Changing penalties is more like chasing our tails...I'll take whatever progress I can get, so no...it's not all or none...but I would continue pushing until I felt the laws were just. Isn't that the moral thing to do?
Their access to pot does not change with legality, only the consequences of possessing it! (well, other than the possibility of it becoming harder for underage people to obtain)....
you know this, and it negates your 'enabling' position.
You also make an assumption that either what we currently employ is not the best possibility, it needs changing or even that people want to change this issue/problem. These are not facts, but merely your opinion on the subject.
I personally do not care much on this issue, mostly because there's about 1 million and 1 things more important in my viewpoint we can adjust or fix which are vastly more important and significant than marijuana.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Actually, they are facts. I don't think any educated person would argue that the current system is just fine the way it is. And support for legalizing marijuana has never been higher (pun intended).
U.S. Support for Legalizing Marijuana Reaches New High
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
If you could care less about this subject I can't understand what you are doing in this thread. I'm kind of embarassed for you.
I don't smoke weed at all. But this an issue for me because of the countless people that face harsh prison time for a drug no worse than most pharmacueticals. Not to mention the billions of tax dollars spent fighting this retarded "war on drugs".
Secondly, many of you sit here and claim how harsh the penatlies and similar are for being caught, but how about a little responsibility on the matter? The punishments may not be fair, but that doesn't take away from the fact that people are willingly breaking the law by taking or selling illegal drugs when they know what the penalties may be after the fact. How come there's no comment on that? The injustice of a harsh penalty doesn't excuse the breaking of laws we all know in advance.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You completely ignored the most important part of my post. The money being spent. We are not talking about people deliberately breaking the law because we think it shouldn't be illegal. Common sense. Try it.
Growing it for yourself? I'm down with that. However if one does sell it they should pay a tax.
Get rid of property taxes and income taxes, institute a flat tax on purchases, bump the percentage up for the sin tax.
You have solved the deficit.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I'm not even sure what you are saying or more importantly why you are saying it. This thread is about making marijuana legal. It's the fucking title. That's what we are talking about. Why are you even in here???? I'm done with you.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I'm not even sure you have an opinion. You have made absolutely no sense throughout my conversation with you. I'm not done with you because of any opinions you have, I'm done because I'm tired of going around in circles. I feel like a dog chasing my tail trying to communicate with you. Honestly, you are all over the place. Sorry, I have nothing more for you.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis