I'm also pretty sick of people telling me how bad factory farming is and I should "buy local". Utter bullshit. We just had a little scam that was uncovered here in SMalbany last summer...a reporter did some digging and the "local farmers" that were selling their produce here were buying their shit from our local Price Choppers, Hannafords, and WalMarts and labeling it as their own. People would pay them a profit for nothing. For buying a 5 dollar watermelon and reselling it to some idiot for 8 bucks as "locally and/or organicallygrown".
I guess that wraps that up then. :roll: Because a bunch of scammers were found to have been operating in South Malbany, Factory farming is therefore the only solution, and how dare anybody criticise it.
I don't shit on people. I shit on whiners. People should stop preaching these methods to others and just go out and do them. I guess give us uneducated masses the chance to choose for ourselves. If someone doesn't like factory farming go do something about it. Stop with all the links about how others should lead their lives. Instead of links, start your own farm and make it economically work. Go ahead and do it....
so ... posting information / links to try and share another point of view = whining!? ... ... how are you supposed to let the uneducated masses choose for themselves if we aren't allowed to share a position!? ...
at least it explains why you basically don't support any of your opinions ... you don't believe in it ...
like i said - you have no clue as to what anyone does here ... but feel free to continue to shit on everyone ...
What are you going to call your farm that you're starting? :corn:
What are you going to call your farm that you're starting? :corn:
seriously, does it make you feel good to make posts like this? ... what do you hope to accomplish besides making yourself out to be a jack ass? ... are you one of those guys who posts stupid things just to get a rise out of people on the internet - just so you can tell people that you got a rise out of someone on the internet? ... i mean - i'd really like to know what possesses someone to actually to act like this ... :ugeek:
What are you going to call your farm that you're starting? :corn:
seriously, does it make you feel good to make posts like this? ... what do you hope to accomplish besides making yourself out to be a jack ass? ... are you one of those guys who posts stupid things just to get a rise out of people on the internet - just so you can tell people that you got a rise out of someone on the internet? ... i mean - i'd really like to know what possesses someone to actually to act like this ... :ugeek:
Act like what? Just wondering what you are doing to change what you perceive is wrong other than telling other people what's going on is wrong and how they should change?
Me personally. I love going to the grocery store and having enough food for me to choose from to last 10 lifetimes. Enviromental impact through factory farming. Straight bullshit. Food is meant to be grown to eat. Animals are meant to be farmed to eat. Without these systems in place everyone better man a hoebecasue there will be a serious food shortage in this country.
All right, I'll put it to you more diplomatically. Analyze the problem and come up with a solution.
There is not much more input I can give to this thread. I threw up an idea and it was shot down as impossible. If my words seemed pointed it's because I was trying to brainstorm a solution without getting any help from those that are passionate about the problem.
So that's that on this.
your idea was to go door to door with a can ... i'm sorry - but that was kind of offensive ... you know full well that if it's a battle of PR campaigns and dollars - there is no hope against big agri ...
at the end of the day - this discussion is about whether or not our industrialized food system is better for us or not ... in trying to discuss the merits of more traditional farming models ... all we got was stop complaining and do something about it ... that's what was pathetic ...
I thought I was done ... But my plan directly addressed traditional farming methods and how to reestabish them! And you claimed it is B.S. that would not work and I'm some sort of heretic for offering solutions!
My door to door plan was a frustrated response to several rebukes that would not discuss the feasibility of a rebuilding of a traditional farming methods.
Focus on my original brainstorm ... Which is in no means corrects what is at fault without major support.. But I would rather focus on finding solutions to problems that affect us all. yet I feel I'm being typecasted.
My door to door plan was a frustrated response to several rebukes that would not discuss the feasibility of a rebuilding of a traditional farming methods.
Focus on my original brainstorm ... Which is in no means corrects what is at fault without major support.. But I would rather focus on finding solutions to problems that affect us all. yet I feel I'm being typecasted.
:(
I misunderstood you're original plan then. I read you're response as a brush off of the things I mentioned such as buying at farmers markets and having my own garden.
I certainly agree that we need to rebuild and refocus our agricultural efforts. I know that we have destroyed much of our prime agricultural lands in this nation in favor of suburban malls and residential housing because we have become so efficient at industrial farming, to which I am opposed. I support agricultural efforts that focus on sustainability and environmentally friendly farming methods. If we shifted from primarily growing corn and soybeans to growing food then I think we are fully capable of feeding our entire nation.
That's why voting for Prop 37 in CA and supporting a revised edition of the 2012 farm bill are so important.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Anybody else here read Daniel Quinn's The Story of B? In his book Quinn states evidence that the continued skyrocketing of the world's population is proof that the problem is not lack of food but food not getting to everyone. He states that people are made up of food (as opposed to something else like glass or aluminum etc) and that as long as the population goes up, there must still be food and as long as we continue to produce more food we will continue to produce more people. He also talks about the delicate ecological balance between food supply and population. At some point, when population outgrows food supply, the whole thing has to collapse until an equilibrium is reestablished. We seem to be very much going toward a state of being out of balance. It seems that if what Quinn suggests is true- and his ideas seem very solid- producing more food will only lead to greater population. He clearly demonstrates that this has been the case thus far.
So, you ask, what do we do, let people starve? Quinn argues that when food availability goes down, population goes down naturally and not necessarily as a result of starvation. I think what he is asserting here is that we need better distribution and establishment of an equilibrium of food and population as opposed to simply more food production which leads to more people.
It's pretty complex stuff and difficult to explain without getting too long winded. I highly recommend the book.
If anyone else has read the book and can add clarity to the ideas, please do.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Also, to Polaris ... I did read my responses and understand how you are on the offensive ... Funny how one's mind interprets the history ... We, as humans, argue our points without fairly taking Open interpretations , yet that is our nature. Thus the dumb back and forths that tend to lock threads.
My bad.
Anyway, I think there are ways to make change. I think my ideas have merit. Perhaps if we are able to bypass our preconceived notions, we can find ways to move together forward. My goal was to find solutions, not to get in a peeing match.
brian, I read B as well and I agree that Quinn's assertions have to do with produce more, eat more, reproduce more. On the one hand, I can read news account after account about starvation and food shortages but most of these seem to pertain to the developing world not countries like the US. The starvation we have here has more to do with distribution although we have safeguards in place (like school lunch and breakfast programs and soup kitchens) to alleviate the worst of these events. On the other hand, we look at news stories in countries like the US about food waste. While recent news events point to a shortage of bacon this year because of the drought, we are not in dire need of food. We will simply miss one item from our very large, very full plates. Here's a photo essay from Time, reprinted from the book Hungry Planet that shows the differences in what various people from around the world eat in a typical week - quite a difference!
Also, to Polaris ... I did read my responses and understand how you are on the offensive ... Funny how one's mind interprets the history ... We, as humans, argue our points without fairly taking Open interpretations , yet that is our nature. Thus the dumb back and forths that tend to lock threads.
My bad.
Anyway, I think there are ways to make change. I think my ideas have merit. Perhaps if we are able to bypass our preconceived notions, we can find ways to move together forward. My goal was to find solutions, not to get in a peeing match.
I don' t want to discuss. I want to fix.
Agreed - I want to fix. This is the difficult part about "discussing" things on the internet - it's difficult to interpret someone's intent without the full accompaniment of facial expressions and tone of voice. Face palms and smilies don't always help :fp:
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
brian, I read B as well and I agree that Quinn's assertions have to do with produce more, eat more, reproduce more. On the one hand, I can read news account after account about starvation and food shortages but most of these seem to pertain to the developing world not countries like the US. The starvation we have here has more to do with distribution although we have safeguards in place (like school lunch and breakfast programs and soup kitchens) to alleviate the worst of these events. On the other hand, we look at news stories in countries like the US about food waste. While recent news events point to a shortage of bacon this year because of the drought, we are not in dire need of food. We will simply miss one item from our very large, very full plates. Here's a photo essay from Time, reprinted from the book Hungry Planet that shows the differences in what various people from around the world eat in a typical week - quite a difference!
Also, to Polaris ... I did read my responses and understand how you are on the offensive ... Funny how one's mind interprets the history ... We, as humans, argue our points without fairly taking Open interpretations , yet that is our nature. Thus the dumb back and forths that tend to lock threads.
My bad.
Anyway, I think there are ways to make change. I think my ideas have merit. Perhaps if we are able to bypass our preconceived notions, we can find ways to move together forward. My goal was to find solutions, not to get in a peeing match.
I don' t want to discuss. I want to fix.
well ... i'm not exactly sure what your idea was ... i tried going back to the thread ... all i read is that you don't think anyone wants to farm ...
still - we have to first accept that there is a problem ... only then can we fix ... i think that this issue is becoming more relevant to people as the propaganda surrounding industrialized farming is simply losing more and more credibility by the day ...
really - this issue is like a lot of others ... do we let big multinational corporations dictated public policy that ultimately only serves their interests!?? ... it's like believing the developing of land mines brings peace or that we need to take all these drugs ... it's all a big scam ...
world hunger is strictly related to distribution ...
between poor farming practices, global warming and environmental degradation ... threats of a food crisis is only going to get worse ... for those interested ... raj patel is sort of the the food security justice guru ... you can read synopsis' of his work online ...
If anyone really stops to think about what they do in factory farming, both to plants and animals...and I'm not even talking about the animal cruelty here...I'm just talking about the hormones, the chemicals, the pesticides, the crap they feed animals, and how they process them...anyone with at least 3 or 4 marbles rolling around would do whatever they could to avoid as much of that shit as possible. We are all being slowly poisoned, and people are too worried about the fucking dollar menu to care.
Just read an interesting article about Chobani on a plane yesterday. Did you know it takes 3 gallons of milk to make one gallon of Chobani yougurt. I'm not even counting the other ingredients. Just milk...3 gallons. Now think about all the other brands of yogurt out there. Now think about all of the other products produced.
Yeah...the local farmers could definitely keep up with demand.
Just read an interesting article about Chobani on a plane yesterday. Did you know it takes 3 gallons of milk to make one gallon of Chobani yougurt. I'm not even counting the other ingredients. Just milk...3 gallons. Now think about all the other brands of yogurt out there. Now think about all of the other products produced.
Yeah...the local farmers could definitely keep up with demand.
Just read an interesting article about Chobani on a plane yesterday. Did you know it takes 3 gallons of milk to make one gallon of Chobani yougurt. I'm not even counting the other ingredients. Just milk...3 gallons. Now think about all the other brands of yogurt out there. Now think about all of the other products produced.
Yeah...the local farmers could definitely keep up with demand.
This is where I buy my local milk, local butter, local half and half, local yogurt. They sell to farmers markets and retail stores throughout KY and TN. They don't seem to have any problems keeping up with demand. Oh and its all GMO free, no chemicals, no antibiotics, no hormones.
Just read an interesting article about Chobani on a plane yesterday. Did you know it takes 3 gallons of milk to make one gallon of Chobani yougurt. I'm not even counting the other ingredients. Just milk...3 gallons. Now think about all the other brands of yogurt out there. Now think about all of the other products produced.
Yeah...the local farmers could definitely keep up with demand.
Forget cows milk you guys. Goat milk is so much easier to digest and it's sweeter. The best I've ever had came from goats on a small farm I visited in Colorado. I milked the goat myself, put the milk in the fridge just long enough to chill it and then drank it. Unbelievably good!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Forget cows milk you guys. Goat milk is so much easier to digest and it's sweeter. The best I've ever had came from goats on a small farm I visited in Colorado. I milked the goat myself, put the milk in the fridge just long enough to chill it and then drank it. Unbelievably good!
Mmmmm.....we have local goat cheese around here and it is soooo addictive!
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
If anyone really stops to think about what they do in factory farming, both to plants and animals...and I'm not even talking about the animal cruelty here...I'm just talking about the hormones, the chemicals, the pesticides, the crap they feed animals, and how they process them...anyone with at least 3 or 4 marbles rolling around would do whatever they could to avoid as much of that shit as possible. We are all being slowly poisoned, and people are too worried about the fucking dollar menu to care.
Exactly! It is reasons like this that I no longer eat meat. Part of it is that I do not want to eat the cute little animals, but it has just as much to do with everything that you named.
Just google it. I mean I didn't make it up and I just did search it and probably five articles came up about it. :?
soo ... according to the chobani website ... they use milk that doesn't have rBST ... something most factory farms use ... so, chalk one up for non-industrialized practice! ...
Just google it. I mean I didn't make it up and I just did search it and probably five articles came up about it. :?
soo ... according to the chobani website ... they use milk that doesn't have rBST ... something most factory farms use ... so, chalk one up for non-industrialized practice! ...
I wouldn't say most factory farms use rbst. I aslo grew up in the area where that yougurt is produced and know of the farms where the milk comes from. I'll leave it at that. And maybe Chobani doesn't use it, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but their yogurt is also a premium over others. I was just citing one example of the demands for farm resources. No one in this country can reasonabley expect food to be able to be produced in the amounts and costs it is if factory farming went away. No one will convince me of that. I don't give a shit how many bar grapghs or pie charts people come up with. It's impossible.
Then again, if the 10,000 people all crammed into one city block of NYC each want to start their own farms (don't know where) they should be able to eat.
I wouldn't say most factory farms use rbst. I aslo grew up in the area where that yougurt is produced and know of the farms where the milk comes from. I'll leave it at that. And maybe Chobani doesn't use it, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but their yogurt is also a premium over others. I was just citing one example of the demands for farm resources. No one in this country can reasonabley expect food to be able to be produced in the amounts and costs it is if factory farming went away. No one will convince me of that. I don't give a shit how many bar grapghs or pie charts people come up with. It's impossible.
Then again, if the 10,000 people all crammed into one city block of NYC each want to start their own farms (don't know where) they should be able to eat.
do you have any evidence to support your argument!? ... there is plenty of literature that a non-industrialized food system can easily feed the population ... even if greek yogurt consumption went up 5000% ...
I wouldn't say most factory farms use rbst. I aslo grew up in the area where that yougurt is produced and know of the farms where the milk comes from. I'll leave it at that. And maybe Chobani doesn't use it, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but their yogurt is also a premium over others. I was just citing one example of the demands for farm resources. No one in this country can reasonabley expect food to be able to be produced in the amounts and costs it is if factory farming went away. No one will convince me of that. I don't give a shit how many bar grapghs or pie charts people come up with. It's impossible.
Then again, if the 10,000 people all crammed into one city block of NYC each want to start their own farms (don't know where) they should be able to eat.
do you have any evidence to support your argument!? ... there is plenty of literature that a non-industrialized food system can easily feed the population ... even if greek yogurt consumption went up 5000% ...
I don't need any evidence. You believe what yu believe and I believe what I believe. Once I see more people leaving their cubicles and turning to farming...say even 5% of the population...then I'll look at it and consider changing my mind. Until then, more people will continue becoming college educated, working white collar jobs, and depending on these farming techniques for food. Just the way it is.
I don't need any evidence. You believe what yu believe and I believe what I believe. Once I see more people leaving their cubicles and turning to farming...say even 5% of the population...then I'll look at it and consider changing my mind. Until then, more people will continue becoming college educated, working white collar jobs, and depending on these farming techniques for food. Just the way it is.
I don't need any evidence. You believe what yu believe and I believe what I believe. Once I see more people leaving their cubicles and turning to farming...say even 5% of the population...then I'll look at it and consider changing my mind. Until then, more people will continue becoming college educated, working white collar jobs, and depending on these farming techniques for food. Just the way it is.
... ok ... then ...
I guess I'll just leave these numbers...2% of US farms control over 40% of the livestock. 79% of pork is raised on farms with 2000 pigs or more. Until more people actually want to go into farming and then ASSUMING they could actually economically compete...I say nope.
I grew up in basic small town America of Utica, NY. My graduating class of 230 or so had one kid who came from a farming family. After his dad died the family sold his farms and they are now developed into very nice neighbrohoods, a Home Depot, and a Wal-Mart. I don't know what everyone I graduated with is doing but I'm pretty sure none of them went into farming and if they did they certainly didn't aspire to do it.
I guess I'll just leave these numbers...2% of US farms control over 40% of the livestock. 79% of pork is raised on farms with 2000 pigs or more. Until more people actually want to go into farming and then ASSUMING they could actually economically compete...I say nope.
I grew up in basic small town America of Utica, NY. My graduating class of 230 or so had one kid who came from a farming family. After his dad died the family sold his farms and they are now developed into very nice neighbrohoods, a Home Depot, and a Wal-Mart. I don't know what everyone I graduated with is doing but I'm pretty sure none of them went into farming and if they did they certainly didn't aspire to do it.
the decline in manufacturing jobs is probably suffering the exact same decline ... it isn't because people don't want to work in manufacturing - it's because the foundation for that industry has been altered to favour the multinational model ... it's what we've been talking about ... it's one of the myriad of problems associated with factory farming ... there are plenty of countries out there that can feed its population without industrialized farming practices and with a healthy farming culture .. why is that? ...
I guess I'll just leave these numbers...2% of US farms control over 40% of the livestock. 79% of pork is raised on farms with 2000 pigs or more. Until more people actually want to go into farming and then ASSUMING they could actually economically compete...I say nope.
I grew up in basic small town America of Utica, NY. My graduating class of 230 or so had one kid who came from a farming family. After his dad died the family sold his farms and they are now developed into very nice neighbrohoods, a Home Depot, and a Wal-Mart. I don't know what everyone I graduated with is doing but I'm pretty sure none of them went into farming and if they did they certainly didn't aspire to do it.
the decline in manufacturing jobs is probably suffering the exact same decline ... it isn't because people don't want to work in manufacturing - it's because the foundation for that industry has been altered to favour the multinational model ... it's what we've been talking about ... it's one of the myriad of problems associated with factory farming ... there are plenty of countries out there that can feed its population without industrialized farming practices and with a healthy farming culture .. why is that? ...
No, people in this country don't want to work in manufacturing just like they don't want to farm.
Comments
I'm fairly sure this isn't isolated.
What are you going to call your farm that you're starting? :corn:
seriously, does it make you feel good to make posts like this? ... what do you hope to accomplish besides making yourself out to be a jack ass? ... are you one of those guys who posts stupid things just to get a rise out of people on the internet - just so you can tell people that you got a rise out of someone on the internet? ... i mean - i'd really like to know what possesses someone to actually to act like this ... :ugeek:
Act like what? Just wondering what you are doing to change what you perceive is wrong other than telling other people what's going on is wrong and how they should change?
Me personally. I love going to the grocery store and having enough food for me to choose from to last 10 lifetimes. Enviromental impact through factory farming. Straight bullshit. Food is meant to be grown to eat. Animals are meant to be farmed to eat. Without these systems in place everyone better man a hoebecasue there will be a serious food shortage in this country.
I thought I was done ... But my plan directly addressed traditional farming methods and how to reestabish them! And you claimed it is B.S. that would not work and I'm some sort of heretic for offering solutions!
This is the definition of being proper fucked.
Focus on my original brainstorm ... Which is in no means corrects what is at fault without major support.. But I would rather focus on finding solutions to problems that affect us all. yet I feel I'm being typecasted.
:(
I misunderstood you're original plan then. I read you're response as a brush off of the things I mentioned such as buying at farmers markets and having my own garden.
I certainly agree that we need to rebuild and refocus our agricultural efforts. I know that we have destroyed much of our prime agricultural lands in this nation in favor of suburban malls and residential housing because we have become so efficient at industrial farming, to which I am opposed. I support agricultural efforts that focus on sustainability and environmentally friendly farming methods. If we shifted from primarily growing corn and soybeans to growing food then I think we are fully capable of feeding our entire nation.
That's why voting for Prop 37 in CA and supporting a revised edition of the 2012 farm bill are so important.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
So, you ask, what do we do, let people starve? Quinn argues that when food availability goes down, population goes down naturally and not necessarily as a result of starvation. I think what he is asserting here is that we need better distribution and establishment of an equilibrium of food and population as opposed to simply more food production which leads to more people.
It's pretty complex stuff and difficult to explain without getting too long winded. I highly recommend the book.
If anyone else has read the book and can add clarity to the ideas, please do.
Also, to Polaris ... I did read my responses and understand how you are on the offensive ... Funny how one's mind interprets the history ... We, as humans, argue our points without fairly taking Open interpretations , yet that is our nature. Thus the dumb back and forths that tend to lock threads.
My bad.
Anyway, I think there are ways to make change. I think my ideas have merit. Perhaps if we are able to bypass our preconceived notions, we can find ways to move together forward. My goal was to find solutions, not to get in a peeing match.
I don' t want to discuss. I want to fix.
http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1626519_1373664,00.html
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Agreed - I want to fix. This is the difficult part about "discussing" things on the internet - it's difficult to interpret someone's intent without the full accompaniment of facial expressions and tone of voice. Face palms and smilies don't always help :fp:
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Fascinating! The thing that sticks in my mind immediately is the correlation between developed countries and soda pop.
well ... i'm not exactly sure what your idea was ... i tried going back to the thread ... all i read is that you don't think anyone wants to farm ...
still - we have to first accept that there is a problem ... only then can we fix ... i think that this issue is becoming more relevant to people as the propaganda surrounding industrialized farming is simply losing more and more credibility by the day ...
really - this issue is like a lot of others ... do we let big multinational corporations dictated public policy that ultimately only serves their interests!?? ... it's like believing the developing of land mines brings peace or that we need to take all these drugs ... it's all a big scam ...
between poor farming practices, global warming and environmental degradation ... threats of a food crisis is only going to get worse ... for those interested ... raj patel is sort of the the food security justice guru ... you can read synopsis' of his work online ...
Yeah...the local farmers could definitely keep up with demand.
:?: :?:
http://www.makeyourownyogurt.com/make-y ... t-you-need
However much milk you use, is how much yogurt you will make (1/2 gal milk = 1/2 gal yogurt). You can use regular, reduced or no fat milk.
This is where I buy my local milk, local butter, local half and half, local yogurt. They sell to farmers markets and retail stores throughout KY and TN. They don't seem to have any problems keeping up with demand. Oh and its all GMO free, no chemicals, no antibiotics, no hormones.
http://jdcountrymilk.com/Store_Locations.html
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Just google it. I mean I didn't make it up and I just did search it and probably five articles came up about it. :?
Mmmmm.....we have local goat cheese around here and it is soooo addictive!
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
fade away...
I am at peace with my lust.....for Eddie.
soo ... according to the chobani website ... they use milk that doesn't have rBST ... something most factory farms use ... so, chalk one up for non-industrialized practice! ...
I wouldn't say most factory farms use rbst. I aslo grew up in the area where that yougurt is produced and know of the farms where the milk comes from. I'll leave it at that.
Then again, if the 10,000 people all crammed into one city block of NYC each want to start their own farms (don't know where) they should be able to eat.
do you have any evidence to support your argument!? ... there is plenty of literature that a non-industrialized food system can easily feed the population ... even if greek yogurt consumption went up 5000% ...
I don't need any evidence. You believe what yu believe and I believe what I believe. Once I see more people leaving their cubicles and turning to farming...say even 5% of the population...then I'll look at it and consider changing my mind. Until then, more people will continue becoming college educated, working white collar jobs, and depending on these farming techniques for food. Just the way it is.
I guess I'll just leave these numbers...2% of US farms control over 40% of the livestock. 79% of pork is raised on farms with 2000 pigs or more. Until more people actually want to go into farming and then ASSUMING they could actually economically compete...I say nope.
I grew up in basic small town America of Utica, NY. My graduating class of 230 or so had one kid who came from a farming family. After his dad died the family sold his farms and they are now developed into very nice neighbrohoods, a Home Depot, and a Wal-Mart.
the decline in manufacturing jobs is probably suffering the exact same decline ... it isn't because people don't want to work in manufacturing - it's because the foundation for that industry has been altered to favour the multinational model ... it's what we've been talking about ... it's one of the myriad of problems associated with factory farming ... there are plenty of countries out there that can feed its population without industrialized farming practices and with a healthy farming culture .. why is that? ...
No, people in this country don't want to work in manufacturing just like they don't want to farm.
What countries are you talking about?