Factory Farms

Jason P

Political donations have reached a total of $2,000,000,000 for the presidential elections. And it won't change anything.

Those that want change in the farm industry, get the collection can and start knocking on doors. Build change. Don't pray for it.

DS1119

Jason P wrote:

Political donations have reached a total of $2,000,000,000 for the presidential elections. And it won't change anything.

Those that want change in the farm industry, get the collection can and start knocking on doors. Build change. Don't pray for it.

You mean you can't change the farming world or business structure from behind a computer sitting in your cubilcle from your concrete jungle? You mean someone would actually have to work for themselves insteadof just preaching and bitching about the way they think things should be?

riotgrl

DS1119 wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

Why can't the local farmer keep up with demand? That is a fallacy perpetrated by factory farms like Tyson and Smithfield to keep people tied to their inferior, cancer causing products.

Really?

Care to elaborate? Local farmers can feed their community. Can they feed the world, no. But other countries of the world are banning our GMO crops/food because even developing nations understand the inherent problems of mutating our food supply. Explanations or proposals from your side of the computer?

riotgrl

DS1119 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Political donations have reached a total of $2,000,000,000 for the presidential elections. And it won't change anything.

Those that want change in the farm industry, get the collection can and start knocking on doors. Build change. Don't pray for it.

You mean you can't change the farming world or business structure from behind a computer sitting in your cubilcle from your concrete jungle? You mean someone would actually have to work for themselves insteadof just preaching and bitching about the way they think things should be?

I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.

brianlux

This discussion reminds of the somewhat sad fact that our local farmer's market closes down for the winter in early to mid November. I'll miss the fresh produce- so tasty! Of course I do realize we are fortunate to have it go that long even though the selection is waning quite a bit. Oh, man, the tomatoes were fantastic this year!

hedonist

Jason P wrote:

For $700K you ban buy a three bedroom house in LA in a subdivision with a small backyard. For $700K you can buy a three bedroom house with 80 acres of farming land in Iowa.

What's stopping us?

WHERE in LA, Mr. P? Our teeny condo is appraised at more than half of that - with no backyard!

Personally, I have to be realistic and responsible (and I appreciate that my company has several reputable farms as lessees). We can't up and move to another state solely for farming purposes. We have good jobs from which we make a pretty decent living, and the life we've made for ourselves here is great (although the cost of living IS crazy high).

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

Both sides have the same yields according to you. One side is using less resources according to you. And one side doesn't have spend money on chemicals and pesticides according to you.

Your right, that isn't a level playing field.

but you are looking strictly at yields ... do they produce the same product at the same cost? ... no ... you have to look at the entire model ... this is the crux of our discussion - if you choose to evaluate each method on limited items ... go ahead ... i mean - there is plenty of literature that disproves your assumptions ... but if you want to go on believing in big agri ... it's your choice ...

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

Political donations have reached a total of $2,000,000,000 for the presidential elections. And it won't change anything.

Those that want change in the farm industry, get the collection can and start knocking on doors. Build change. Don't pray for it.

it's tragic ... on one hand you know what the problem is ... but on the other - you're basically pissing on anyone who wants to change it ...

hedonist

Shawshank wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I don't disagree; however, we live in a small condo nine floors up, with association rules in place as to what and how much we can have on our balconies. Genuine question - how would I grow fruits & vegetables & herbs, etc. (not to mention raising fish!) - to equal half or even a small portion of what we consume?

Believe me, if we had the land and means to do so, I'd love it...and I'm open to suggestions on how I could make it work within my own living situation.

Yes, as Polaris stated, in that situation you'd probably need to find a local co-op and then just grow whatever you were allowed to along your patio. It also depends on how big your condo is. At one time, I had a room that we used as an office/craft room...not but about 8X8 in size...I grew lettuce all year in there, along with tomatoes, broccoli, peppers and various herbs (not the smoking kind ).

Our place is less than 700 sf; plus we have two cats.

Also, I've tried - and miserably failed - at growing that particular herb

Jason P

hedonist wrote:

Jason P wrote:

For $700K you ban buy a three bedroom house in LA in a subdivision with a small backyard. For $700K you can buy a three bedroom house with 80 acres of farming land in Iowa.

What's stopping us?

WHERE in LA, Mr. P? Our teeny condo is appraised at more than half of that - with no backyard!

hedonist

riotgrl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Political donations have reached a total of $2,000,000,000 for the presidential elections. And it won't change anything.

Those that want change in the farm industry, get the collection can and start knocking on doors. Build change. Don't pray for it.

You mean you can't change the farming world or business structure from behind a computer sitting in your cubilcle from your concrete jungle? You mean someone would actually have to work for themselves insteadof just preaching and bitching about the way they think things should be?

I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.

I'll admit I often lean toward convenience and am trying to change that in baby steps.

We have two propositions in California that could greatly affect farmers. Voting is one way, for me, to try and make some small dent.

hedonist

Jason P wrote:

hedonist wrote:

WHERE in LA, Mr. P? Our teeny condo is appraised at more than half of that - with no backyard!

Jason P

I tried to grow a garden last year and it was a complete disaster. Turns out that drinking a cold beer in the A/C is much more satisfying then getting attacked by mosquitoes after a days work in a blistering heat while picking weeds. Who new?

:geek:

I think I'm going to plant some fruit trees next year.

polaris_x

riotgrl wrote:

I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.

the thing is ... it's irrelevant ... i can buy all my food at walmart and it still doesn't change the overall message ... we're all hypocrites - how is that relevant ... it's what people who basically don't want to care about anything use as a crutch to shit on people ... it's their way of tuning out and justifying their belief system ...

it's why i don't respond when people make condescending remarks like "don't pray for change" ... no one really knows how we live our lives and the choices we make ... it's secondary tho ... the real issue is their avoidance and self-rationalization ...

i could be jerry sandusky and still say raping children is wrong ...

DS1119

riotgrl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

Why can't the local farmer keep up with demand? That is a fallacy perpetrated by factory farms like Tyson and Smithfield to keep people tied to their inferior, cancer causing products.

Really?

Care to elaborate? Local farmers can feed their community. Can they feed the world, no. But other countries of the world are banning our GMO crops/food because even developing nations understand the inherent problems of mutating our food supply. Explanations or proposals from your side of the computer?

Yes. Keep enjoying the plentiful food supply. And to those countries that are hungry and are rejecting our food. Fuck 'em. Go hungry.

DS1119

polaris_x wrote:

[quo
3. it is hard work but given a level playing field - many people would jump at the chance ..

False.

Shawshank

I hate to keep on my Aquaponics kick, but just take a look at how amazingly awesome and efficient this is...

http://youtu.be/HYR9s6chrI0?t=1m57s

riotgrl

hedonist wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

You mean you can't change the farming world or business structure from behind a computer sitting in your cubilcle from your concrete jungle? You mean someone would actually have to work for themselves insteadof just preaching and bitching about the way they think things should be?

I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.

I'll admit I often lean toward convenience and am trying to change that in baby steps.

We have two propositions in California that could greatly affect farmers. Voting is one way, for me, to try and make some small dent.

I think it is extremely difficult to make that transition because our lives are so crazy and grocery stores and restaurants make it easy for us to embrace the convenient. Baby steps make sure that you stick with it longer. I wished I lived in CA just so I could vote on Prop 37 but I have supported it through donations so that's something.

riotgrl

Shawshank wrote:

I hate to keep on my Aquaponics kick, but just take a look at how amazingly awesome and efficient this is...

http://youtu.be/HYR9s6chrI0?t=1m57s

My farmers market is open year round and one of the places I get my lettuce and tomatoes from in the winter uses this method. It really is a great system!

riotgrl

DS1119 wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Really?

Care to elaborate? Local farmers can feed their community. Can they feed the world, no. But other countries of the world are banning our GMO crops/food because even developing nations understand the inherent problems of mutating our food supply. Explanations or proposals from your side of the computer?

Yes. Keep enjoying the plentiful food supply. And to those countries that are hungry and are rejecting our food. Fuck 'em. Go hungry.

Are you at all aware of the policies of the western world that have depleted the lands of the very countries you are telling to fuck off? These policies have, in part, caused them to starve to death. If not, I suggest you do some research about the problems in Africa from water depletion, soil erosion, exhausted natural resources, etc. that can be laid at the feet of countries in North America and Europe. I am enjoying an actual discussion about the merits of industrial vs. small scale farming, do you have anything to support your point of view that we may discuss?