"ANIMALS Australia will tomorrow launch its biggest campaign yet aimed at bringing an end to the intensive "factory farming" of pigs and chickens."
if that happens the price of beef ,chicken,egg's,pork
products and maybe even leather clothing (shoes,coats etc.) will sky rocket in price
and the big hit will be resturants...especially the the small mom and pop shops.
this is not a good idea.
Godfather.
you have to look at things more holistically rather than one aspect ... it's ultimately why the economy is the way it is now ...
there are a lot of things at play here ... it can be argued right now that factory farming has resulted in this:
* overall loss of jobs in the industry
* overall profit margins for small independent farmers
* overall reduction in the quality of product (affects not only taste but health of consumers)
* mass suffering of animals
if i can make any household item you want to pick and charge 25% cheaper but I have to pay non-living wages, break environmental laws, and reduce the quality of the product you buy ... is it worth it?
our focus on me and dollars and cents is fucking up the world ... all it does is serve big corporations and the 1% ... you might think you're saving a few bucks and that's good but it all comes at a price ... and if we continue to be short-sighted in our thinking - it's not going to get better ...
if i can make any household item you want to pick and charge 25% cheaper but I have to pay non-living wages, break environmental laws, and reduce the quality of the product you buy ... is it worth it?
our focus on me and dollars and cents is fucking up the world ... all it does is serve big corporations and the 1% ... you might think you're saving a few bucks and that's good but it all comes at a price ... and if we continue to be short-sighted in our thinking - it's not going to get better ...
What if it also avoids human suffering and mass starvation.
obviously, it's up to you how you want to take this ... but like we've discussed on numerous occasions - there are indeed people starving but industrialized farming is not the solution in fact, it's part of the problem ...
The reality no one wants to really think about is, most people are just too lazy or uneducated to work to sustain themselves. The more people rely on others, the more demand there is for products that have to be provided in an industrialized manner.
To me there is seriously no excuse not to grow at least 50% of the food you eat...none...and you can do so indefinitely. You don't have to babysit plants and animals that produce food. So you can work a normal job, and produce MUCH healthier food on your own. Now days with the growing popularity of aquaponics, you can use solar power to raise hundreds of pounds of fish, and hundreds of pounds of nearly every conceivable fruit and vegetable without having to do much more than just make sure the fish have food (which can be set on a timer to where you don't even have to think about feeding them). You don't even need soil for crying out loud.
Until people understand that they don't have to rely on the grocery store or chain restaurants to provide for them, then industrialized farms won't be going anywhere.
I'm in the middle of reading Daniel Quinn's book Story of B in which he describes our culture's form of agriculture as "totalitarian agriculture". Quinn hits it out of the park again!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The reality no one wants to really think about is, most people are just too lazy or uneducated to work to sustain themselves. The more people rely on others, the more demand there is for products that have to be provided in an industrialized manner.
To me there is seriously no excuse not to grow at least 50% of the food you eat...none...and you can do so indefinitely. You don't have to babysit plants and animals that produce food. So you can work a normal job, and produce MUCH healthier food on your own. Now days with the growing popularity of aquaponics, you can use solar power to raise hundreds of pounds of fish, and hundreds of pounds of nearly every conceivable fruit and vegetable without having to do much more than just make sure the fish have food (which can be set on a timer to where you don't even have to think about feeding them). You don't even need soil for crying out loud.
Until people understand that they don't have to rely on the grocery store or chain restaurants to provide for them, then industrialized farms won't be going anywhere.
It's more than just laziness. You would be cutting into corporate profits and downgrading the importance of capitalism. I don't think most Americans are willing to quit mass consumption to become more self reliant. But then again I'm a cynic which can be a problem.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I'm in the middle of reading Daniel Quinn's book Story of B in which he describes our culture's form of agriculture as "totalitarian agriculture". Quinn hits it out of the park again!
We're on the same page as I'm in the middle of reading this as well It's a way for the corporations to continue to control us. I have been working with my children's after school care to include fresh fruits and veggies as an option and the response I got? 200 calories of a Little Debbie cake isn't any worse than a banana because they are calorically equivalent. She didn't quite comprehend nutrional value :fp:
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
The reality no one wants to really think about is, most people are just too lazy or uneducated to work to sustain themselves. The more people rely on others, the more demand there is for products that have to be provided in an industrialized manner.
To me there is seriously no excuse not to grow at least 50% of the food you eat...none...and you can do so indefinitely. You don't have to babysit plants and animals that produce food. So you can work a normal job, and produce MUCH healthier food on your own. Now days with the growing popularity of aquaponics, you can use solar power to raise hundreds of pounds of fish, and hundreds of pounds of nearly every conceivable fruit and vegetable without having to do much more than just make sure the fish have food (which can be set on a timer to where you don't even have to think about feeding them). You don't even need soil for crying out loud.
Until people understand that they don't have to rely on the grocery store or chain restaurants to provide for them, then industrialized farms won't be going anywhere.
I don't disagree; however, we live in a small condo nine floors up, with association rules in place as to what and how much we can have on our balconies. Genuine question - how would I grow fruits & vegetables & herbs, etc. (not to mention raising fish!) - to equal half or even a small portion of what we consume?
Believe me, if we had the land and means to do so, I'd love it...and I'm open to suggestions on how I could make it work within my own living situation.
I don't disagree; however, we live in a small condo nine floors up, with association rules in place as to what and how much we can have on our balconies. Genuine question - how would I grow fruits & vegetables & herbs, etc. (not to mention raising fish!) - to equal half or even a small portion of what we consume?
Believe me, if we had the land and means to do so, I'd love it...and I'm open to suggestions on how I could make it work within my own living situation.
i think his 50% number is a bit unrealistic ...
i think in your situation - you have to look for community garden plots ...
obviously, it's up to you how you want to take this ... but like we've discussed on numerous occasions - there are indeed people starving but industrialized farming is not the solution in fact, it's part of the problem ...
I don't disagree; however, we live in a small condo nine floors up, with association rules in place as to what and how much we can have on our balconies. Genuine question - how would I grow fruits & vegetables & herbs, etc. (not to mention raising fish!) - to equal half or even a small portion of what we consume?
Believe me, if we had the land and means to do so, I'd love it...and I'm open to suggestions on how I could make it work within my own living situation.
i think his 50% number is a bit unrealistic ...
i think in your situation - you have to look for community garden plots ...
While ideal to grow you're own, as you stated, it's not always possible. The next best thing is to support local farmers which should be more feasible by frequenting farmers markets.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
While ideal to grow you're own, as you stated, it's not always possible. The next best thing is to support local farmers which should be more feasible by frequenting farmers markets.
also ... you can join a csa ... that's always good if you cook a lot at home ...
I treat their report with as much unbiased credibility as a Monsonto report.
If corn reverted to it's average yield of 60 bushels per acre that existed in the early 60's, versus the 160 bushels per acre that exist today, your telling me there wouldn't be problems? Especially in a drought like this year?
I treat their report with as much unbiased credibility as a Monsonto report.
If corn reverted to it's average yield of 60 bushels per acre that existed in the early 60's, versus the 160 bushels per acre that exist today, your telling me there wouldn't be problems? Especially in a drought like this year?
frig ... what's causing the drought? ... what about the quality of the corn? ... what about the resources required to produce said corn? ... and what about the subsidies tied into corn? ...
edit: there's more ... what about the fact ... neighbouring farmers have been screwed over by industrialized corn producers? ... and that there is increasing amounts of pesticides and chemicals required to grown this corn?
I treat their report with as much unbiased credibility as a Monsonto report.
If corn reverted to it's average yield of 60 bushels per acre that existed in the early 60's, versus the 160 bushels per acre that exist today, your telling me there wouldn't be problems? Especially in a drought like this year?
frig ... what's causing the drought? ... what about the quality of the corn? ... what about the resources required to produce said corn? ... and what about the subsidies tied into corn?
La Nina? Global Warming? Dr.Evil? Random events? Arctic Oscillation?
what's wrong with the quality
technology is more efficient today
those can go away
La Nina? Global Warming? Dr.Evil? Random events? Arctic Oscillation?
what's wrong with the quality
technology is more efficient today
those can go away
the corn being bio-engineered today is growing more resistant to pesticides which means we have to continually create more and more toxic shit ... which all ends up in our ecosystem, our air, our water supply ... and as rates of cancer and other illnesses continue to rise - we sit there looking for a cure instead of looking for the cause ...
How about everyone grows there own food then? Quit your job and tend to the land people...that is unless this wouldn't work? :? And it wouldn't. I always love the people who argue against farming techniques like this while they probably sit in a restaurant in the middle of an urban jungle somewhere choking down their steaks, baked potatoes, corn and finishing it off with a big bowl of ice cream. wating for the next day to roll in so they can sit in their cubicles surfing the web and online shopping.
How about everyone grows there own food then? Quit your job and tend to the land people...that is unless this wouldn't work? :? And it wouldn't. I always love the people who argue against farming techniques like this while they probably sit in a restaurant in the middle of an urban jungle somewhere choking down their steaks, baked potatoes, corn and finishing it off with a big bowl of ice cream. wating for the next day to roll in so they can sit in their cubicles surfing the web and online shopping.
uhhh ... ok ...
i love it when backseat people who have no functional understanding of an issue comment like they do ... let me guess - you're gonna start another hypocrite thread!? ...
While ideal to grow you're own, as you stated, it's not always possible. The next best thing is to support local farmers which should be more feasible by frequenting farmers markets.
also ... you can join a csa ... that's always good if you cook a lot at home ...
Which introduced me to kale. Who knew it was an amazing veggie that even my kids will eat
Post edited by riotgrl on
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I treat their report with as much unbiased credibility as a Monsonto report.
If corn reverted to it's average yield of 60 bushels per acre that existed in the early 60's, versus the 160 bushels per acre that exist today, your telling me there wouldn't be problems? Especially in a drought like this year?
However, we need so much corn because it is in ALL our processed food. So if we give up the fruit snacks and Cheetos we don't need to grow so much corn. 85% of all corn grown is GMO and you need the high yields to continue feeding the factory fed cows, farmed fish, chickens, and pigs. Not to mention its use in non-food items which is only needed because we have such a glut of corn. Don't even get me started on the overabundance of soybeans :nono:
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
How about everyone grows there own food then? Quit your job and tend to the land people...that is unless this wouldn't work? :? And it wouldn't. I always love the people who argue against farming techniques like this while they probably sit in a restaurant in the middle of an urban jungle somewhere choking down their steaks, baked potatoes, corn and finishing it off with a big bowl of ice cream. wating for the next day to roll in so they can sit in their cubicles surfing the web and online shopping.
uhhh ... ok ...
i love it when backseat people who have no functional understanding of an issue comment like they do ... let me guess - you're gonna start another hypocrite thread!? ...
Sure why not. Most enviromentalists are the world's biggest hypocrites actually.
If someone doesn't like the way something is done (farming) don't buy it. Strong trying (and I don't mean you in particuliar) "educating" the world and pushing your beliefs on everyone esle. If enough people do they go out of business. Stick with your "local farmer" and pay more and who also can't keep up with demand. And when he runs out of food, everyone can grow their own. This issue is so ridiculous especially in this country. We have people who are against it for moral reasons, against it for scientific reasons, ggainst it for blah blah blah...and yet on the other hand they love the cheap nutritious food and still want us to feed the impoverished nations worldwide. Blows my mind.
Personally I love going to the grocery store and seeing 5000 lbs of beef just waiting for me to purchase. I love seeing a wall full of corn and potatoes waiting for me. I love the 1700 different varieties of bread and cereal. Fruits and vegatable galore. Give me more more more!
How about everyone grows there own food then? Quit your job and tend to the land people...that is unless this wouldn't work? :? And it wouldn't. I always love the people who argue against farming techniques like this while they probably sit in a restaurant in the middle of an urban jungle somewhere choking down their steaks, baked potatoes, corn and finishing it off with a big bowl of ice cream. wating for the next day to roll in so they can sit in their cubicles surfing the web and online shopping.
uhhh ... ok ...
i love it when backseat people who have no functional understanding of an issue comment like they do ... let me guess - you're gonna start another hypocrite thread!? ...
Sure why not. Most enviromentalists are the world's biggest hypocrites actually.
If someone doesn't like the way something is done (farming) don't buy it. Strong trying (and I don't mean you in particuliar) "educating" the world and pushing your beliefs on everyone esle. If enough people do they go out of business. Stick with your "local farmer" and pay more and who also can't keep up with demand. And when he runs out of food, everyone can grow their own. This issue is so ridiculous especially in this country. We have people who are against it for moral reasons, against it for scientific reasons, ggainst it for blah blah blah...and yet on the other hand they love the cheap nutritious food and still want us to feed the impoverished nations worldwide. Blows my mind.
Personally I love going to the grocery store and seeing 5000 lbs of beef just waiting for me to purchase. I love seeing a wall full of corn and potatoes waiting for me. I love the 1700 different varieties of bread and cereal. Fruits and vegatable galore. Give me more more more!
Why can't the local farmer keep up with demand? That is a fallacy perpetrated by factory farms like Tyson and Smithfield to keep people tied to their inferior, cancer causing products.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I saw Earthlings a couple years ago along with Food Inc which my teenage kids brought home for a project they were doing for their medical academy at school. My lady and I decided to stop eating meat ever since and NEVER felt better, lost weight and this winter I'm preparing to try my first mini triathlon.
Everyone should take a look at how we treat our animals and WHERE our food meat comes from....one might think twice about what we eat ESPECIALLY fast food restaurants.
Peeace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Everyone likes to support their local farmer ... But doesn''t want to be one.
I doubt that anyone crunching numbers on how the population is becoming urban dwellers have ever spent ten hours picking rocks out of a field and drinking out of a garden hose on their breaks. They are more keen on making PowerPoint slides and excel graphs in their cubicals. They probably have a vegetable garden.
Farming is hard and dangerous work. It's also high stakes gambling. And most Americans are not cut out for it due to technology advances.
DS is right, although patronizing. There is tons of land in America. It isn't a bogeyman corporation stopping us ... It's hard work. Most prefer to watch farming and logging and fishing from thie couch then to actually attempt it.
For $700K you ban buy a three bedroom house in LA in a subdivision with a small backyard. For $700K you can buy a three bedroom house with 80 acres of farming land in Iowa.
For $700K you ban buy a three bedroom house in LA in a subdivision with a small backyard. For $700K you can buy a three bedroom house with 80 acres of farming land in Iowa.
What's stopping us?
Money? You can't live the American dream of huge houses, big cars, and more stuff if you're a farmer. I live in a farming state and no one here, at the farming level, makes the big money. And for the past 100 years we've become a more industrialized nation and less of an agrarian nation. How will people become farmers when they don't even know the growing cycle of the fruits and vegetables they eat? So what's stopping them is not just money but a complete lack of knowledge about soil, growth cycles, etc. I have a small garden at home and I grew up helping my mom with her garden but I still didn't really understand how to get it going. Perhaps, I am misreading your statement but you make it sound like it should be easy to start a farm. Most of us can't do that, for a variety of reasons. So what's wrong with supporting someone who does know how to do it?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Comments
you have to look at things more holistically rather than one aspect ... it's ultimately why the economy is the way it is now ...
there are a lot of things at play here ... it can be argued right now that factory farming has resulted in this:
* overall loss of jobs in the industry
* overall profit margins for small independent farmers
* overall reduction in the quality of product (affects not only taste but health of consumers)
* mass suffering of animals
if i can make any household item you want to pick and charge 25% cheaper but I have to pay non-living wages, break environmental laws, and reduce the quality of the product you buy ... is it worth it?
our focus on me and dollars and cents is fucking up the world ... all it does is serve big corporations and the 1% ... you might think you're saving a few bucks and that's good but it all comes at a price ... and if we continue to be short-sighted in our thinking - it's not going to get better ...
http://www.alternet.org/story/13900/the ... A_myth_one
obviously, it's up to you how you want to take this ... but like we've discussed on numerous occasions - there are indeed people starving but industrialized farming is not the solution in fact, it's part of the problem ...
To me there is seriously no excuse not to grow at least 50% of the food you eat...none...and you can do so indefinitely. You don't have to babysit plants and animals that produce food. So you can work a normal job, and produce MUCH healthier food on your own. Now days with the growing popularity of aquaponics, you can use solar power to raise hundreds of pounds of fish, and hundreds of pounds of nearly every conceivable fruit and vegetable without having to do much more than just make sure the fish have food (which can be set on a timer to where you don't even have to think about feeding them). You don't even need soil for crying out loud.
Until people understand that they don't have to rely on the grocery store or chain restaurants to provide for them, then industrialized farms won't be going anywhere.
It's more than just laziness. You would be cutting into corporate profits and downgrading the importance of capitalism. I don't think most Americans are willing to quit mass consumption to become more self reliant. But then again I'm a cynic which can be a problem.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
We're on the same page as I'm in the middle of reading this as well
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Believe me, if we had the land and means to do so, I'd love it...and I'm open to suggestions on how I could make it work within my own living situation.
i think his 50% number is a bit unrealistic ...
i think in your situation - you have to look for community garden plots ...
While ideal to grow you're own, as you stated, it's not always possible. The next best thing is to support local farmers which should be more feasible by frequenting farmers markets.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
also ... you can join a csa ... that's always good if you cook a lot at home ...
so pish-posh = insightful, non-big agri funded propaganda, independent thinking truth?
If corn reverted to it's average yield of 60 bushels per acre that existed in the early 60's, versus the 160 bushels per acre that exist today, your telling me there wouldn't be problems? Especially in a drought like this year?
frig ... what's causing the drought? ... what about the quality of the corn? ... what about the resources required to produce said corn? ... and what about the subsidies tied into corn? ...
edit: there's more ... what about the fact ... neighbouring farmers have been screwed over by industrialized corn producers? ... and that there is increasing amounts of pesticides and chemicals required to grown this corn?
what's wrong with the quality
technology is more efficient today
those can go away
the corn being bio-engineered today is growing more resistant to pesticides which means we have to continually create more and more toxic shit ... which all ends up in our ecosystem, our air, our water supply ... and as rates of cancer and other illnesses continue to rise - we sit there looking for a cure instead of looking for the cause ...
http://www.ehow.com/about_6300216_gmo-v ... ields.html
uhhh ... ok ...
i love it when backseat people who have no functional understanding of an issue comment like they do ... let me guess - you're gonna start another hypocrite thread!? ...
Which introduced me to kale. Who knew it was an amazing veggie that even my kids will eat
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
However, we need so much corn because it is in ALL our processed food. So if we give up the fruit snacks and Cheetos we don't need to grow so much corn. 85% of all corn grown is GMO and you need the high yields to continue feeding the factory fed cows, farmed fish, chickens, and pigs. Not to mention its use in non-food items which is only needed because we have such a glut of corn. Don't even get me started on the overabundance of soybeans :nono:
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/tristram_stuart_the_global_food_waste_scandal.html
Not enough space to grow/pasture animals? This is how much you need
http://1bog.org/blog/live-off-the-land-2/#more-12807
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
(also, thanks for the suggestions! I totally support our local farmer's markets)
Sure why not. Most enviromentalists are the world's biggest hypocrites actually.
If someone doesn't like the way something is done (farming) don't buy it. Strong trying (and I don't mean you in particuliar) "educating" the world and pushing your beliefs on everyone esle. If enough people do they go out of business. Stick with your "local farmer" and pay more and who also can't keep up with demand. And when he runs out of food, everyone can grow their own. This issue is so ridiculous especially in this country. We have people who are against it for moral reasons, against it for scientific reasons, ggainst it for blah blah blah...and yet on the other hand they love the cheap nutritious food and still want us to feed the impoverished nations worldwide. Blows my mind.
Personally I love going to the grocery store and seeing 5000 lbs of beef just waiting for me to purchase. I love seeing a wall full of corn and potatoes waiting for me. I love the 1700 different varieties of bread and cereal. Fruits and vegatable galore. Give me more more more!
Why can't the local farmer keep up with demand? That is a fallacy perpetrated by factory farms like Tyson and Smithfield to keep people tied to their inferior, cancer causing products.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I saw Earthlings a couple years ago along with Food Inc which my teenage kids brought home for a project they were doing for their medical academy at school. My lady and I decided to stop eating meat ever since and NEVER felt better, lost weight and this winter I'm preparing to try my first mini triathlon.
Everyone should take a look at how we treat our animals and WHERE our food meat comes from....one might think twice about what we eat ESPECIALLY fast food restaurants.
Peeace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I doubt that anyone crunching numbers on how the population is becoming urban dwellers have ever spent ten hours picking rocks out of a field and drinking out of a garden hose on their breaks. They are more keen on making PowerPoint slides and excel graphs in their cubicals. They probably have a vegetable garden.
Farming is hard and dangerous work. It's also high stakes gambling. And most Americans are not cut out for it due to technology advances.
DS is right, although patronizing. There is tons of land in America. It isn't a bogeyman corporation stopping us ... It's hard work. Most prefer to watch farming and logging and fishing from thie couch then to actually attempt it.
What's stopping us?
Money? You can't live the American dream of huge houses, big cars, and more stuff if you're a farmer. I live in a farming state and no one here, at the farming level, makes the big money. And for the past 100 years we've become a more industrialized nation and less of an agrarian nation. How will people become farmers when they don't even know the growing cycle of the fruits and vegetables they eat? So what's stopping them is not just money but a complete lack of knowledge about soil, growth cycles, etc. I have a small garden at home and I grew up helping my mom with her garden but I still didn't really understand how to get it going. Perhaps, I am misreading your statement but you make it sound like it should be easy to start a farm. Most of us can't do that, for a variety of reasons. So what's wrong with supporting someone who does know how to do it?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE