Political donations have reached a total of $2,000,000,000 for the presidential elections. And it won't change anything.
Those that want change in the farm industry, get the collection can and start knocking on doors. Build change. Don't pray for it.
You mean you can't change the farming world or business structure from behind a computer sitting in your cubilcle from your concrete jungle? You mean someone would actually have to work for themselves insteadof just preaching and bitching about the way they think things should be?
I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.
I'll admit I often lean toward convenience and am trying to change that in baby steps.
We have two propositions in California that could greatly affect farmers. Voting is one way, for me, to try and make some small dent.
I tried to grow a garden last year and it was a complete disaster. Turns out that drinking a cold beer in the A/C is much more satisfying then getting attacked by mosquitoes after a days work in a blistering heat while picking weeds. Who new?
:geek:
I think I'm going to plant some fruit trees next year.
I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.
the thing is ... it's irrelevant ... i can buy all my food at walmart and it still doesn't change the overall message ... we're all hypocrites - how is that relevant ... it's what people who basically don't want to care about anything use as a crutch to shit on people ... it's their way of tuning out and justifying their belief system ...
it's why i don't respond when people make condescending remarks like "don't pray for change" ... no one really knows how we live our lives and the choices we make ... it's secondary tho ... the real issue is their avoidance and self-rationalization ...
i could be jerry sandusky and still say raping children is wrong ...
Why can't the local farmer keep up with demand? That is a fallacy perpetrated by factory farms like Tyson and Smithfield to keep people tied to their inferior, cancer causing products.
Really?
Care to elaborate? Local farmers can feed their community. Can they feed the world, no. But other countries of the world are banning our GMO crops/food because even developing nations understand the inherent problems of mutating our food supply. Explanations or proposals from your side of the computer?
Yes. Keep enjoying the plentiful food supply. And to those countries that are hungry and are rejecting our food. Fuck 'em. Go hungry.
You mean you can't change the farming world or business structure from behind a computer sitting in your cubilcle from your concrete jungle? You mean someone would actually have to work for themselves insteadof just preaching and bitching about the way they think things should be?
I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.
I'll admit I often lean toward convenience and am trying to change that in baby steps.
We have two propositions in California that could greatly affect farmers. Voting is one way, for me, to try and make some small dent.
I think it is extremely difficult to make that transition because our lives are so crazy and grocery stores and restaurants make it easy for us to embrace the convenient. Baby steps make sure that you stick with it longer. I wished I lived in CA just so I could vote on Prop 37 but I have supported it through donations so that's something.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
My farmers market is open year round and one of the places I get my lettuce and tomatoes from in the winter uses this method. It really is a great system!
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Care to elaborate? Local farmers can feed their community. Can they feed the world, no. But other countries of the world are banning our GMO crops/food because even developing nations understand the inherent problems of mutating our food supply. Explanations or proposals from your side of the computer?
Yes. Keep enjoying the plentiful food supply. And to those countries that are hungry and are rejecting our food. Fuck 'em. Go hungry.
Are you at all aware of the policies of the western world that have depleted the lands of the very countries you are telling to fuck off? These policies have, in part, caused them to starve to death. If not, I suggest you do some research about the problems in Africa from water depletion, soil erosion, exhausted natural resources, etc. that can be laid at the feet of countries in North America and Europe. I am enjoying an actual discussion about the merits of industrial vs. small scale farming, do you have anything to support your point of view that we may discuss?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
Are you at all aware of the policies of the western world that have depleted the lands of the very countries you are telling to fuck off? These policies have, in part, caused them to starve to death. If not, I suggest you do some research about the problems in Africa from water depletion, soil erosion, exhausted natural resources, etc. that can be laid at the feet of countries in North America and Europe. I am enjoying an actual discussion about the merits of industrial vs. small scale farming, do you have anything to support your point of view that we may discuss?
No please tell me the policies that have depleted these countries. This should be good. :corn: Last time I checked the United States led the world in foreign aid to other countries. Last time I checked the United States led the world in humanitarian efforts towards impoverished nations. Last time I checked the United States led the world in trying to educate impoverished nations.
Short of us taking these countries over, making them citizens, and giving them welfare and food stamps what the fuck else do you want the "western" world to do? These countries are not our problem. It's not our fault they chose to live on lands that are short of water. It's not our fault they chose to live on land short of natural resources. It's not our fault they have uncontrolable birth rates. They can always leave. Last time I checked the US and most other "western" countries has a pretty leniant immigration policies for those who are not criminals. They can always leave and do better for themselves and if they don't want to leave, man up and take care of your business at home. I am so sick of hearing how every other countries problems are caused by the US and western society. Thank goodness the US didn't subscribe to this theory or else we would still be sitting here paying taxes to the king of england.
Are you at all aware of the policies of the western world that have depleted the lands of the very countries you are telling to fuck off? These policies have, in part, caused them to starve to death. If not, I suggest you do some research about the problems in Africa from water depletion, soil erosion, exhausted natural resources, etc. that can be laid at the feet of countries in North America and Europe. I am enjoying an actual discussion about the merits of industrial vs. small scale farming, do you have anything to support your point of view that we may discuss?
No please tell me the policies that have depleted these countries. This should be good. :corn: Last time I checked the United States led the world in foreign aid to other countries. Last time I checked the United States led the world in humanitarian efforts towards impoverished nations. Last time I checked the United States led the world in trying to educate impoverished nations.
Short of us taking these countries over, making them citizens, and giving them welfare and food stamps what the fuck else do you want the "western" world to do? These countries are not our problem. It's not our fault they chose to live on lands that are short of water. It's not our fault they chose to live on land short of natural resources. It's not our fault they have uncontrolable birth rates. They can always leave. Last time I checked the US and most other "western" countries has a pretty leniant immigration policies for those who are criminals. They can always leave and do better for themselves and if they don't want to leave, man up and take care of your business at home. I am so sick of hearing how every other countries problems are caused by the US and western society. Thank goodness the US didn't subscribe to this theory or else we would still be sitting here in the paying taxes to the king of england.
I'm talking about historical causes like the imperialism of Africa. This era in world history certainly does have an effect on all aspects of problems currently evident in various areas of the world. Read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel for a better explanation than time will allow here. Or if you prefer, Netflix is streaming the documentary version of this book
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I'm talking about historical causes like the imperialism of Africa. This era in world history certainly does have an effect on all aspects of problems currently evident in various areas of the world. Read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel for a better explanation than time will allow here. Or if you prefer, Netflix is streaming the documentary version of this book
Wow. Really? You've heard about the Colonialism of America right? The Roman Empire? The Greek Empire? The Mongols? Should I continue? And if I should continue what are you doing about the "problems" of these impoverished nations? Please don't tell me it stops with reading books and typing on a computer. Please tell me you're flying to Africa this weekend to help them with their problems we casued.
"From Fulton’s point of view, if animals are going to be raised for food, they need to be given decent lives; it is wrong to make an animal suffer unnecessarily. Fulton doesn’t brand cattle, notch their ears, dock their tails, or cut off their horns. “We all die,” he says. “But at least my animals, they have only one bad day.”
I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.
the thing is ... it's irrelevant ... i can buy all my food at walmart and it still doesn't change the overall message ... we're all hypocrites - how is that relevant ... it's what people who basically don't want to care about anything use as a crutch to shit on people ... it's their way of tuning out and justifying their belief system ...
it's why i don't respond when people make condescending remarks like "don't pray for change" ... no one really knows how we live our lives and the choices we make ... it's secondary tho ... the real issue is their avoidance and self-rationalization ...
i could be jerry sandusky and still say raping children is wrong ...
You choose not to respond to to condescending remarks ... And condescending they may sting.
That was not my intent.
I'm not blind to the unfair business practices that the ag business has in place. I'm asking for champions to right what is wrong, but nobody chooses to fight outside of complaining.
I won't speak for anyone else but I have made real changes like growing my own food and shopping every week for local food at my local farmers market. It may not be perfect but the reality of creating my own commune and living off the grid is not as easy as wanting to do it. That's rather offensive to lump everyone here into that box you just mentioned.
the thing is ... it's irrelevant ... i can buy all my food at walmart and it still doesn't change the overall message ... we're all hypocrites - how is that relevant ... it's what people who basically don't want to care about anything use as a crutch to shit on people ... it's their way of tuning out and justifying their belief system ...
it's why i don't respond when people make condescending remarks like "don't pray for change" ... no one really knows how we live our lives and the choices we make ... it's secondary tho ... the real issue is their avoidance and self-rationalization ...
i could be jerry sandusky and still say raping children is wrong ...
You choose not to respond to to condescending remarks ... And condescending they may sting.
That was not my intent.
I'm not blind to the unfair business practices that the ag business has in place. I'm asking for champions to right what is wrong, but nobody chooses to fight outside of complaining.
Do or do not. There is no try.
How do you right what is wrong? Is the only solution to get your own farm, grow your own food, and live off the grid? From your responses here, I think (perhaps wrongly) that this is the only solution? Why full measures when half measures are a good start and more feasible for most Americans to do?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
This to me is where the thought process makes no sense to me. You feel the system is flawed and that's your right. But you are also assuming that everyone else feels the system is flawed and we are just following along like uneducated idiots. I think the system is great. I have zero interest in changing, and we both know I'm not in the minority. There's a point where bitching about something just doesn't work anymore. Go out grab a hoe, buy some cattle and do your thing.
You choose not to respond to to condescending remarks ... And condescending they may sting.
That was not my intent.
I'm not blind to the unfair business practices that the ag business has in place. I'm asking for champions to right what is wrong, but nobody chooses to fight outside of complaining.
Do or do not. There is no try.
this is my point ... how the heck do you know what i do or don't do!?? ... you don't ... instead of addressing the discussion points - you chose to follow DS and attack the messenger ... you sit there and complain about complainers without having a clue who you are talking to ...
telling people to stop complaining and pick up a hoe ... how utterly pathetic ...
You choose not to respond to to condescending remarks ... And condescending they may sting.
That was not my intent.
I'm not blind to the unfair business practices that the ag business has in place. I'm asking for champions to right what is wrong, but nobody chooses to fight outside of complaining.
Do or do not. There is no try.
this is my point ... how the heck do you know what i do or don't do!?? ... you don't ... instead of addressing the discussion points - you chose to follow DS and attack the messenger ... you sit there and complain about complainers without having a clue who you are talking to ...
telling people to stop complaining and pick up a hoe ... how utterly pathetic ...
I don't attack anyone. I challenge them.
I'm also pretty sick of people telling me how bad factory farming is and I should "buy local". Utter bullshit. We just had a little scam that was uncovered here in SMalbany last summer...a reporter did some digging and the "local farmers" that were selling their produce here were buying their shit from our local Price Choppers, Hannafords, and WalMarts and labeling it as their own. People would pay them a profit for nothing. For buying a 5 dollar watermelon and reselling it to some idiot for 8 bucks as "locally and/or organicallygrown".
I'm also pretty sick of people telling me how bad factory farming is and I should "buy local". Utter bullshit. We just had a little scam that was uncovered here in SMalbany last summer...a reporter did some digging and the "local farmers" that were selling their produce here were buying their shit from our local Price Choppers, Hannafords, and WalMarts and labeling it as their own. People would pay them a profit for nothing. For buying a 5 dollar watermelon and reselling it to some idiot for 8 bucks as "locally and/or organicallygrown".
but you're a backseat griper ... you don't like hearing things that don't conform to your beliefs so, instead of actually learning about what people are talking about - you pull the old hypocrite act ... so, you want to shit on people who care - do you feel good about yourself doing that? ... it's obvious you aren't in these discussions to add anything except shit on people ...
I'm also pretty sick of people telling me how bad factory farming is and I should "buy local". Utter bullshit. We just had a little scam that was uncovered here in SMalbany last summer...a reporter did some digging and the "local farmers" that were selling their produce here were buying their shit from our local Price Choppers, Hannafords, and WalMarts and labeling it as their own. People would pay them a profit for nothing. For buying a 5 dollar watermelon and reselling it to some idiot for 8 bucks as "locally and/or organicallygrown".
but you're a backseat griper ... you don't like hearing things that don't conform to your beliefs so, instead of actually learning about what people are talking about - you pull the old hypocrite act ... so, you want to shit on people who care - do you feel good about yourself doing that? ... it's obvious you aren't in these discussions to add anything except shit on people ...
I don't shit on people. I shit on whiners. People should stop preaching these methods to others and just go out and do them. I guess give us uneducated masses the chance to choose for ourselves. If someone doesn't like factory farming go do something about it. Stop with all the links about how others should lead their lives. Instead of links, start your own farm and make it economically work. Go ahead and do it....
I'm also pretty sick of people telling me how bad factory farming is and I should "buy local". Utter bullshit. We just had a little scam that was uncovered here in SMalbany last summer...a reporter did some digging and the "local farmers" that were selling their produce here were buying their shit from our local Price Choppers, Hannafords, and WalMarts and labeling it as their own. People would pay them a profit for nothing. For buying a 5 dollar watermelon and reselling it to some idiot for 8 bucks as "locally and/or organicallygrown".
I guess that wraps that up then. :roll: Because a bunch of scammers were found to have been operating in South Malbany, Factory farming is therefore the only solution, and how dare anybody criticise it.
I don't shit on people. I shit on whiners. People should stop preaching these methods to others and just go out and do them. I guess give us uneducated masses the chance to choose for ourselves. If someone doesn't like factory farming go do something about it. Stop with all the links about how others should lead their lives. Instead of links, start your own farm and make it economically work. Go ahead and do it....
so ... posting information / links to try and share another point of view = whining!? ... ... how are you supposed to let the uneducated masses choose for themselves if we aren't allowed to share a position!? ...
at least it explains why you basically don't support any of your opinions ... you don't believe in it ...
like i said - you have no clue as to what anyone does here ... but feel free to continue to shit on everyone ...
this is my point ... how the heck do you know what i do or don't do!?? ... you don't ... instead of addressing the discussion points - you chose to follow DS and attack the messenger ... you sit there and complain about complainers without having a clue who you are talking to ...
telling people to stop complaining and pick up a hoe ... how utterly pathetic ...
Telling someone to analyze a problem and come up with a solution is pathetic?
this is my point ... how the heck do you know what i do or don't do!?? ... you don't ... instead of addressing the discussion points - you chose to follow DS and attack the messenger ... you sit there and complain about complainers without having a clue who you are talking to ...
telling people to stop complaining and pick up a hoe ... how utterly pathetic ...
Telling someone to analyze a problem and come up with a solution is pathetic?
no ... you chose to call us complainers and claimed we aren't doing anything ... read what you wrote ...
this is my point ... how the heck do you know what i do or don't do!?? ... you don't ... instead of addressing the discussion points - you chose to follow DS and attack the messenger ... you sit there and complain about complainers without having a clue who you are talking to ...
telling people to stop complaining and pick up a hoe ... how utterly pathetic ...
Telling someone to analyze a problem and come up with a solution is pathetic?
no ... you chose to call us complainers and claimed we aren't doing anything ... read what you wrote ...
All right, I'll put it to you more diplomatically. Analyze the problem and come up with a solution.
There is not much more input I can give to this thread. I threw up an idea and it was shot down as impossible. If my words seemed pointed it's because I was trying to brainstorm a solution without getting any help from those that are passionate about the problem.
All right, I'll put it to you more diplomatically. Analyze the problem and come up with a solution.
There is not much more input I can give to this thread. I threw up an idea and it was shot down as impossible. If my words seemed pointed it's because I was trying to brainstorm a solution without getting any help from those that are passionate about the problem.
So that's that on this.
your idea was to go door to door with a can ... i'm sorry - but that was kind of offensive ... you know full well that if it's a battle of PR campaigns and dollars - there is no hope against big agri ...
at the end of the day - this discussion is about whether or not our industrialized food system is better for us or not ... in trying to discuss the merits of more traditional farming models ... all we got was stop complaining and do something about it ... that's what was pathetic ...
Comments
We have two propositions in California that could greatly affect farmers. Voting is one way, for me, to try and make some small dent.
:geek:
I think I'm going to plant some fruit trees next year.
the thing is ... it's irrelevant ... i can buy all my food at walmart and it still doesn't change the overall message ... we're all hypocrites - how is that relevant ... it's what people who basically don't want to care about anything use as a crutch to shit on people ... it's their way of tuning out and justifying their belief system ...
it's why i don't respond when people make condescending remarks like "don't pray for change" ... no one really knows how we live our lives and the choices we make ... it's secondary tho ... the real issue is their avoidance and self-rationalization ...
i could be jerry sandusky and still say raping children is wrong ...
Yes. Keep enjoying the plentiful food supply. And to those countries that are hungry and are rejecting our food. Fuck 'em. Go hungry.
False.
http://youtu.be/HYR9s6chrI0?t=1m57s
I think it is extremely difficult to make that transition because our lives are so crazy and grocery stores and restaurants make it easy for us to embrace the convenient. Baby steps make sure that you stick with it longer. I wished I lived in CA just so I could vote on Prop 37 but I have supported it through donations so that's something.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
My farmers market is open year round and one of the places I get my lettuce and tomatoes from in the winter uses this method. It really is a great system!
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Are you at all aware of the policies of the western world that have depleted the lands of the very countries you are telling to fuck off? These policies have, in part, caused them to starve to death. If not, I suggest you do some research about the problems in Africa from water depletion, soil erosion, exhausted natural resources, etc. that can be laid at the feet of countries in North America and Europe. I am enjoying an actual discussion about the merits of industrial vs. small scale farming, do you have anything to support your point of view that we may discuss?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
No please tell me the policies that have depleted these countries.
Short of us taking these countries over, making them citizens, and giving them welfare and food stamps what the fuck else do you want the "western" world to do?
I'm talking about historical causes like the imperialism of Africa. This era in world history certainly does have an effect on all aspects of problems currently evident in various areas of the world. Read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel for a better explanation than time will allow here. Or if you prefer, Netflix is streaming the documentary version of this book
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
"I Am HSUS; I Am Nebraska": Kevin Fulton Takes on Factory Farming
Compassionate farmer helps form state agricultural council to advise The HSUS
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/magaz ... raska.html
"From Fulton’s point of view, if animals are going to be raised for food, they need to be given decent lives; it is wrong to make an animal suffer unnecessarily. Fulton doesn’t brand cattle, notch their ears, dock their tails, or cut off their horns. “We all die,” he says. “But at least my animals, they have only one bad day.”
Looks a lot like Europe in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries. Must have been because of all of the factory farming back then.
That was not my intent.
I'm not blind to the unfair business practices that the ag business has in place. I'm asking for champions to right what is wrong, but nobody chooses to fight outside of complaining.
Do or do not. There is no try.
How do you right what is wrong? Is the only solution to get your own farm, grow your own food, and live off the grid? From your responses here, I think (perhaps wrongly) that this is the only solution? Why full measures when half measures are a good start and more feasible for most Americans to do?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
This to me is where the thought process makes no sense to me. You feel the system is flawed and that's your right. But you are also assuming that everyone else feels the system is flawed and we are just following along like uneducated idiots. I think the system is great. I have zero interest in changing, and we both know I'm not in the minority. There's a point where bitching about something just doesn't work anymore. Go out grab a hoe, buy some cattle and do your thing.
this is my point ... how the heck do you know what i do or don't do!?? ... you don't ... instead of addressing the discussion points - you chose to follow DS and attack the messenger ... you sit there and complain about complainers without having a clue who you are talking to ...
telling people to stop complaining and pick up a hoe ... how utterly pathetic ...
I don't attack anyone. I challenge them.
I'm also pretty sick of people telling me how bad factory farming is and I should "buy local". Utter bullshit. We just had a little scam that was uncovered here in SMalbany last summer...a reporter did some digging and the "local farmers" that were selling their produce here were buying their shit from our local Price Choppers, Hannafords, and WalMarts and labeling it as their own. People would pay them a profit for nothing. For buying a 5 dollar watermelon and reselling it to some idiot for 8 bucks as "locally and/or organicallygrown".
but you're a backseat griper ... you don't like hearing things that don't conform to your beliefs so, instead of actually learning about what people are talking about - you pull the old hypocrite act ... so, you want to shit on people who care - do you feel good about yourself doing that? ... it's obvious you aren't in these discussions to add anything except shit on people ...
I don't shit on people. I shit on whiners. People should stop preaching these methods to others and just go out and do them. I guess give us uneducated masses the chance to choose for ourselves. If someone doesn't like factory farming go do something about it. Stop with all the links about how others should lead their lives. Instead of links, start your own farm and make it economically work. Go ahead and do it....
No it doesn't.
I guess that wraps that up then. :roll: Because a bunch of scammers were found to have been operating in South Malbany, Factory farming is therefore the only solution, and how dare anybody criticise it.
so ... posting information / links to try and share another point of view = whining!? ...
at least it explains why you basically don't support any of your opinions ... you don't believe in it ...
like i said - you have no clue as to what anyone does here ... but feel free to continue to shit on everyone ...
no ... you chose to call us complainers and claimed we aren't doing anything ... read what you wrote ...
There is not much more input I can give to this thread. I threw up an idea and it was shot down as impossible. If my words seemed pointed it's because I was trying to brainstorm a solution without getting any help from those that are passionate about the problem.
So that's that on this.
your idea was to go door to door with a can ... i'm sorry - but that was kind of offensive ... you know full well that if it's a battle of PR campaigns and dollars - there is no hope against big agri ...
at the end of the day - this discussion is about whether or not our industrialized food system is better for us or not ... in trying to discuss the merits of more traditional farming models ... all we got was stop complaining and do something about it ... that's what was pathetic ...