The band just needs to hire some of the minds here to manage them. They would play 3 shows a day 365 days a year, charge $5 for tickets (a hug to the ticketing agent also acceptable) and would in remarkable fashion release bootlegs of the show BEFORE the event even occurs.
Actually, I think they guys have justified it to themselves because record sales have gone down from torrenting/copying. I think that's their take because of Ed making a comment about how he bought a plate of eggs that morning for $10 and why wouldn't someone pay $2 more for an album they'll love and cherish forever or something. I can't blame them too much, but for those of us who do pay for everything they release, it just makes it all that much more expensive.
Well exactly. If bands are making up lost income from record sales on gig tickets, then I don't see what the problem with downloading is. At the end of the day most people's income hasn't gone up, yet the price of tickets has, and the price of cds has remained the same. Somthing's gotta give surely? The point is kind of proved by the fact that despite cd sales going down and illegal downloading going up, the live music scene is thriving. Shows and festivals sell out way quicker now than they used to in the past.
Actually, I think they guys have justified it to themselves because record sales have gone down from torrenting/copying. I think that's their take because of Ed making a comment about how he bought a plate of eggs that morning for $10 and why wouldn't someone pay $2 more for an album they'll love and cherish forever or something. I can't blame them too much, but for those of us who do pay for everything they release, it just makes it all that much more expensive.
Well exactly. If bands are making up lost income from record sales on gig tickets, then I don't see what the problem with downloading is. At the end of the day most people's income hasn't gone up, yet the price of tickets has, and the price of cds has remained the same. Somthing's gotta give surely? The point is kind of proved by the fact that despite cd sales going down and illegal downloading going up, the live music scene is thriving. Shows and festivals sell out way quicker now than they used to in the past.
I think you're half-right. I think that if everyone is illegally downloading, the ticket prices would go up to maybe double or more... so I'm still paying. All we can do is act on an individual basis.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
I think you're half-right. I think that if everyone is illegally downloading, the ticket prices would go up to maybe double or more... so I'm still paying. All we can do is act on an individual basis.
Don't get me wrong, I still buy some cds, but I have to be more selective about what I buy, because I just can't afford to buy all the cds I used to and still go to all the shows I want to. The consequence of that is that sometimes I will end up downloading a band's cd as a stop-gap until I can afford to buy it. If I had to choose between a cd and and going to a show I would always choose the show.
Those were the days uh? $18.00 Pearl Jam concert tickets and you had an option to buy a single
Remember those long gone days also came with stiff competition for tickets. Also shows tended to take place in smaller venues which meant even tougher odds. The fight for tickets back then included every sixteen year old boy and especially girl in your region. Even if you won the fight for tickets you still had to attend concerts with crazed teenagers. I still have EDDIE, EDDIE cries and pleas haunting my dreams. All those poor desperate faces longing for their idol EDDIE. What a nightmare! Don’t miss that part.
just look at your order history on here = tickets from 2003 to 2010. in 2003 it was from $77-$91 for a pair - philly spectrum shows where $167.00 a pair. big jump in 7 years. not criticizing, just pointing it out.
just look at your order history on here = tickets from 2003 to 2010. in 2003 it was from $77-$91 for a pair - philly spectrum shows where $167.00 a pair. big jump in 7 years. not criticizing, just pointing it out.
It's ok to criticize. That is a SIGNIFICANT price increase. I paid the same to see radiohead in 2001 that I did in 2008.
I can't blame people for that....if wishes were horses...we're all getting older...remembering the good 'ol daze.
x
..i m gonna use that line!!
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
hmmm...is Green Day being their own record company? Just curious.
x
kat you, as well as anyone, know that a lot of these people don't care or want to know the reality...they still want it to be 1995
I can't blame people for that....if wishes were horses...we're all getting older...remembering the good 'ol daze.
x
oh hell yeah...but a little perspective from people on where the band is at right now and them wanting to do thing their way instead of how other bands do it is all
i mean, here they are probably the biggest pure independent band going today...it makes me love them even more for not giving in to the lame record companies
I paid $18 bucks to see my first Pearl Jam show in September of 1996. The ticket was awesome. Two faces on an old style map. Awesome. Now all we get is that stupid generic Live Nation ticket.
same here. what show btw ? Mine was Toledo OH. same ticket as you described.
got the tickets from the window about 4 hours before the show ! awesome night. changed my life.
It was the Hartford riot show of 1996. My mom actually laminated the ticket for me to use as a bookmark, which I still use. When I am able to afford the poster from that show, I won't be able to frame the laminated ticket with the print, but that's okay. I was 14 at the time and my mom never understood the damage done by laminating. The other cool thing about that ticket was it was huge! Probably 2 or 3x the size of your standard Ticketbastard ticket.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
oh hell yeah...but a little perspective from people on where the band is at right now and them wanting to do thing their way instead of how other bands do it is all
i mean, here they are probably the biggest pure independent band going today...it makes me love them even more for not giving in to the lame record companies
i believe the same norm,but somehow they must be in the market ,right?i guess someone has his own company must do stuff like all the companies do to be in the market..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Does anyone still have a copy of the '96 ticket check list we got in the mail from 10club? Were they 18 bucks each FenwayFaithful?
Not sure what you mean...the ticket was $16.50 with a $1.50 facility charge. I don't remember a checklist. I joined the 10c shortly after the show.
EDIT: Yeah, $18 per ticket.
Post edited by FenwayFaithful on
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
Does anyone still have a copy of the '96 ticket check list we got in the mail from 10club? Were they 18 bucks each FenwayFaithful?
Not sure what you mean...the ticket was $16.50 with a $1.50 facility charge. I don't remember a checklist. I joined the 10c shortly after the show.
Okie dokie! In '96 though, 10club sent every member along with the year's newsletter a piece of paper which listed all the '96 show's on the NA tour. You got to pick off which show's you were interested in attending. Those day's I hated the mail in with a passion & hated going to the bank, making a money order and going to the post office. Though when I got my first DVD burner summer of '03, i visit the post office 3 times a week. It's standard. :geek:
hmmm...is Green Day being their own record company? Just curious.
x
Since you brought it up, mind an intellectual discussion on the subject, comparing PJ to another comparable popular 90's band still touring?
...and these are just observations, but I believe they are comparable.
Radiohead practically IS their own record company, so I think it's a good comparison, and their ticket prices remained the same, even though I believe they bring in much less revenue than PJ, yet are pretty-much as big of a band.
Radiohead had a name-your-own-price download for their most recent album, so they lost a lot of revenue by selling In Rainbows that way, as some paid little or nothing. 1.2 million downloads occurred with the name-your-own-price method. They made more money on the less acclaimed Hail To The Thief record just prior, but somehow Radiohead's tickets did not spike up.
I'm not saying that there aren't more expenses when PJ owns their own record company, but I do believe that it is more lucrative in exchange, so there's more profit to pay for the expenses. Instead of making $1 or $2 per CD sold in a retail store as I imagine a record label would pay a band, I'd have to imagine PJ is making $4 or $5 per CD sold in a retail store, plus making $14 per CD (minus shipping) sold directly to TC members. Plus the huge guaranty that Target paid them when they went "exclusive" which I think was $5 million.
In addition to making more money on the album sales, I have to image PJ earns money from a large variety of other avenues that Radiohead does not. Such as the huge "Verizon" screens (or advertisements) on either side of the stage, like at MSG... I'd have to imagine the band didn't give that prime space up for free. And that's on top of the $167 per pair tickets (and that's without TM fees). I'd also imagine the licensing rights for their music to be played on CBS' Cold Case were lucrative. Not to mention the money from "Unthought Known" used ABC's Flash Forward. Or the royalties of "The End" being used on ABC's The Castle. Or their music on MLB and Nascar. ...or the (presumed) guarantee from Harmonix for the upcoming RockBand PJ game.
I don't know how much they make on the bootlegs, or how much of the $140 Super Deluxe Edition of Ten, but it's probably not anything to shake a stick at.
Anyway, I'm fine paying $167 for a pair of tickets. When they go up to $200 a pair or $300 a pair, I'll probably still pay. But suggesting that because PJ self-releases/self-distributes their music means it's less lucrative as a business model, and therefore ticket prices need to be increased, just doesn't hold water to me. I can only think that self-releasing/self-distributing means more income because you are your own middleman. Plus the countless other revenue streams from sponsorships (Verizon), licensing to Cold Case, Flash Forward and The Castle, MLB, Nascar and money from existing songs on Rockband and the upcoming Rockband game... it just makes Radiohead seem more consumer friendly with their lower ticket prices for large scale shows.
Would you agree, or disagree?
Edit: My numbers above are my own estimates, but I believe them to be close enough for discussion.
ADD 5,200 to the post count you see, thank you.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
hmmm...is Green Day being their own record company? Just curious.
x
Kat,
I saw some very insightful points in CJMST3K's post. Being that there is no middle man now AND Target gave a a chunk of money to the band for the exclusive partnership...wouldn't the band be making MORE money now? Plus with no publishing company, all CD's sold through the Ten Club should be pure profit should they not? The prices were already consistently rising when they were with Sony and J-Records. I'm not sure citing Green Day and their record contract is a valid argument for them having lower ticket prices than Pearl Jam.
hmmm...is Green Day being their own record company? Just curious.
x
Since you brought it up, mind an intellectual discussion on the subject, comparing PJ to another comparable popular 90's band still touring?
...and these are just observations, but I believe they are comparable.
Radiohead practically IS their own record company, so I think it's a good comparison, and their ticket prices remained the same, even though I believe they bring in much less revenue than PJ, yet are pretty-much as big of a band.
Radiohead had a name-your-own-price download for their most recent album, so they lost a lot of revenue by selling In Rainbows that way, as some paid little or nothing. 1.2 million downloads occurred with the name-your-own-price method. They made more money on the less acclaimed Hail To The Thief record just prior, but somehow Radiohead's tickets did not spike up.
I'm not saying that there aren't more expenses when PJ owns their own record company, but I do believe that it is more lucrative in exchange, so there's more profit to pay for the expenses. Instead of making $1 or $2 per CD sold in a retail store as I imagine a record label would pay a band, I'd have to imagine PJ is making $4 or $5 per CD sold in a retail store, plus making $14 per CD (minus shipping) sold directly to TC members. Plus the huge guaranty that Target paid them when they went "exclusive" which I think was $5 million.
In addition to making more money on the album sales, I have to image PJ earns money from a large variety of other avenues that Radiohead does not. Such as the huge "Verizon" screens (or advertisements) on either side of the stage, like at MSG... I'd have to imagine the band didn't give that prime space up for free. And that's on top of the $167 per pair tickets (and that's without TM fees). I'd also imagine the licensing rights for their music to be played on CBS' Cold Case were lucrative. Not to mention the money from "Unthought Known" used ABC's Flash Forward. Or the royalties of "The End" being used on ABC's The Castle. Or their music on MLB and Nascar. ...or the (presumed) guarantee from Harmonix for the upcoming RockBand PJ game.
I don't know how much they make on the bootlegs, or how much of the $140 Super Deluxe Edition of Ten, but it's probably not anything to shake a stick at.
Anyway, I'm fine paying $167 for a pair of tickets. When they go up to $200 a pair or $300 a pair, I'll probably still pay. But suggesting that because PJ self-releases/self-distributes their music means it's less lucrative as a business model, and therefore ticket prices need to be increased, just doesn't hold water to me. I can only think that self-releasing/self-distributing means more income because you are your own middleman. Plus the countless other revenue streams from sponsorships (Verizon), licensing to Cold Case, Flash Forward and The Castle, MLB, Nascar and money from existing songs on Rockband and the upcoming Rockband game... it just makes Radiohead seem more consumer friendly with their lower ticket prices for large scale shows.
Would you agree, or disagree?
Edit: My numbers above are my own estimates, but I believe them to be close enough for discussion.
All good points, but I think some of the CD stuff is a bit off. First off, I think you mean revenue, not profits. Profits are usually bottom line, after all expenses. Second, you can't count $14 Ten Club as all profit. It's probably more than Target, but still only a few dollars.
Overall, my bet is that expenses are WAY up as their own record label. The whole supply chain thing goes from a whole record company negotiating with vendors to a single band. Imagine this: approaching a printer to print 1 million cases for a PJ CD vs. a record company approaching a printer to print 30 million for 30 different artists. You can bet the record company gets a heck of a deal compared to the independent example. Same goes for negotiation with concert venues, buying media, web site hosting, etc.
Radiohead and Greenday still sell millions of records; If the last 2 records are any indication, a new PJ record would only sell 1/4 or 1/5, at best, of what the other 2 bands would sell.
PJ finances their own recording, so they are at risk of losing money if the next album flops. Even though they might have lost some credibility by teaming up with Target, the earnings from the deal should allow them to finance/absorb any huge losses on the next few records.
PJ is simply a more "mature" band and it seems as if they are making the transition from "recording artists" to "touring artists".
Green Day is allowing the producers of "American Idiot, the Musical" to charge very high prices ($277 top price) on Broadway. How are the Gilman gutter punks supposed to see the show?
And, finally, Thom Yorke is a huge knob who won't even make eye contact with someone trying to say "hello"!
Comments
Well exactly. If bands are making up lost income from record sales on gig tickets, then I don't see what the problem with downloading is. At the end of the day most people's income hasn't gone up, yet the price of tickets has, and the price of cds has remained the same. Somthing's gotta give surely? The point is kind of proved by the fact that despite cd sales going down and illegal downloading going up, the live music scene is thriving. Shows and festivals sell out way quicker now than they used to in the past.
I think you're half-right. I think that if everyone is illegally downloading, the ticket prices would go up to maybe double or more... so I'm still paying. All we can do is act on an individual basis.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
Don't get me wrong, I still buy some cds, but I have to be more selective about what I buy, because I just can't afford to buy all the cds I used to and still go to all the shows I want to. The consequence of that is that sometimes I will end up downloading a band's cd as a stop-gap until I can afford to buy it. If I had to choose between a cd and and going to a show I would always choose the show.
Remember those long gone days also came with stiff competition for tickets. Also shows tended to take place in smaller venues which meant even tougher odds. The fight for tickets back then included every sixteen year old boy and especially girl in your region. Even if you won the fight for tickets you still had to attend concerts with crazed teenagers. I still have EDDIE, EDDIE cries and pleas haunting my dreams. All those poor desperate faces longing for their idol EDDIE. What a nightmare! Don’t miss that part.
Three Fish
July 1996 San Francisco
June 1999 Chicago
and still jonesing for another show....
"the waiting drove me mad..."
It's ok to criticize. That is a SIGNIFICANT price increase. I paid the same to see radiohead in 2001 that I did in 2008.
x
kat you, as well as anyone, know that a lot of these people don't care or want to know the reality...they still want it to be 1995
I can't blame people for that....if wishes were horses...we're all getting older...remembering the good 'ol daze.
x
its 2010 people
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
oh hell yeah...but a little perspective from people on where the band is at right now and them wanting to do thing their way instead of how other bands do it is all
i mean, here they are probably the biggest pure independent band going today...it makes me love them even more for not giving in to the lame record companies
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
those were the days...index cards and crazy phone numbers
EDIT: Yeah, $18 per ticket.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
Okie dokie! In '96 though, 10club sent every member along with the year's newsletter a piece of paper which listed all the '96 show's on the NA tour. You got to pick off which show's you were interested in attending. Those day's I hated the mail in with a passion & hated going to the bank, making a money order and going to the post office. Though when I got my first DVD burner summer of '03, i visit the post office 3 times a week. It's standard. :geek:
Since you brought it up, mind an intellectual discussion on the subject, comparing PJ to another comparable popular 90's band still touring?
...and these are just observations, but I believe they are comparable.
Radiohead practically IS their own record company, so I think it's a good comparison, and their ticket prices remained the same, even though I believe they bring in much less revenue than PJ, yet are pretty-much as big of a band.
Radiohead had a name-your-own-price download for their most recent album, so they lost a lot of revenue by selling In Rainbows that way, as some paid little or nothing. 1.2 million downloads occurred with the name-your-own-price method. They made more money on the less acclaimed Hail To The Thief record just prior, but somehow Radiohead's tickets did not spike up.
I'm not saying that there aren't more expenses when PJ owns their own record company, but I do believe that it is more lucrative in exchange, so there's more profit to pay for the expenses. Instead of making $1 or $2 per CD sold in a retail store as I imagine a record label would pay a band, I'd have to imagine PJ is making $4 or $5 per CD sold in a retail store, plus making $14 per CD (minus shipping) sold directly to TC members. Plus the huge guaranty that Target paid them when they went "exclusive" which I think was $5 million.
In addition to making more money on the album sales, I have to image PJ earns money from a large variety of other avenues that Radiohead does not. Such as the huge "Verizon" screens (or advertisements) on either side of the stage, like at MSG... I'd have to imagine the band didn't give that prime space up for free. And that's on top of the $167 per pair tickets (and that's without TM fees). I'd also imagine the licensing rights for their music to be played on CBS' Cold Case were lucrative. Not to mention the money from "Unthought Known" used ABC's Flash Forward. Or the royalties of "The End" being used on ABC's The Castle. Or their music on MLB and Nascar. ...or the (presumed) guarantee from Harmonix for the upcoming RockBand PJ game.
I don't know how much they make on the bootlegs, or how much of the $140 Super Deluxe Edition of Ten, but it's probably not anything to shake a stick at.
Anyway, I'm fine paying $167 for a pair of tickets. When they go up to $200 a pair or $300 a pair, I'll probably still pay. But suggesting that because PJ self-releases/self-distributes their music means it's less lucrative as a business model, and therefore ticket prices need to be increased, just doesn't hold water to me. I can only think that self-releasing/self-distributing means more income because you are your own middleman. Plus the countless other revenue streams from sponsorships (Verizon), licensing to Cold Case, Flash Forward and The Castle, MLB, Nascar and money from existing songs on Rockband and the upcoming Rockband game... it just makes Radiohead seem more consumer friendly with their lower ticket prices for large scale shows.
Would you agree, or disagree?
Edit: My numbers above are my own estimates, but I believe them to be close enough for discussion.
*NYC 9/28/96 *NYC 9/29/96 *NJ 9/8/98 (front row "may i play drums with you")
*MSG 9/10/98 (backstage) *MSG 9/11/98 (backstage)
*Jones Beach 8/23/00 *Jones Beach 8/24/00 *Jones Beach 8/25/00
*Mansfield 8/29/00 *Mansfield 8/30/00 *Nassau 4/30/03 *Nissan VA 7/1/03
*Borgata 10/1/05 *Camden 5/27/06 *Camden 5/28/06 *DC 5/30/06
*VA Beach 6/17/08 *DC 6/22/08 *MSG 6/24/08 (backstage) *MSG 6/25/08
*EV DC 8/17/08 *EV Baltimore 6/15/09 *Philly 10/31/09
*Bristow VA 5/13/10 *MSG 5/20/10 *MSG 5/21/10
GREAT post. Couldn't agree more.
Kat,
I saw some very insightful points in CJMST3K's post. Being that there is no middle man now AND Target gave a a chunk of money to the band for the exclusive partnership...wouldn't the band be making MORE money now? Plus with no publishing company, all CD's sold through the Ten Club should be pure profit should they not? The prices were already consistently rising when they were with Sony and J-Records. I'm not sure citing Green Day and their record contract is a valid argument for them having lower ticket prices than Pearl Jam.
All good points, but I think some of the CD stuff is a bit off. First off, I think you mean revenue, not profits. Profits are usually bottom line, after all expenses. Second, you can't count $14 Ten Club as all profit. It's probably more than Target, but still only a few dollars.
Overall, my bet is that expenses are WAY up as their own record label. The whole supply chain thing goes from a whole record company negotiating with vendors to a single band. Imagine this: approaching a printer to print 1 million cases for a PJ CD vs. a record company approaching a printer to print 30 million for 30 different artists. You can bet the record company gets a heck of a deal compared to the independent example. Same goes for negotiation with concert venues, buying media, web site hosting, etc.
yup....
8/7/08, 6/9/09
If it wasn't for tiered pricing, perhaps the "poor" people wouldn't be able to attend the show at all.
Radiohead and Greenday still sell millions of records; If the last 2 records are any indication, a new PJ record would only sell 1/4 or 1/5, at best, of what the other 2 bands would sell.
PJ finances their own recording, so they are at risk of losing money if the next album flops. Even though they might have lost some credibility by teaming up with Target, the earnings from the deal should allow them to finance/absorb any huge losses on the next few records.
PJ is simply a more "mature" band and it seems as if they are making the transition from "recording artists" to "touring artists".
Green Day is allowing the producers of "American Idiot, the Musical" to charge very high prices ($277 top price) on Broadway. How are the Gilman gutter punks supposed to see the show?
And, finally, Thom Yorke is a huge knob who won't even make eye contact with someone trying to say "hello"!
pretty soon tiered pricing won't make a bit of difference.
live music will be a rich folk only activity.